The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?

[RoccoR]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
※→ Coyote, et al,

It is all connected. It is a cascade of event that has not reached its end.

I'm talking really, about a particular group of Palestinians. You don't think even an apology or acknowledgement that what was done (absentee property laws) is acceptable? That what Israel did in that case was fine? I honestly get the feeling folks feel Israel does no wrong and can not be held accountable for anything because of - but but the Palestinians!

What does this have to do with Israel surrendering its sovereignty? I don't understand what you mean. If the Turks apologize for the Armenian Genocide are they surrendering their sovereignty?

(COMMENT)

The time is not right, and the people are not mentally set to address each other.

There is no question, that given the amount of anguish, suffering, injury and damage the Arab Palestinian has inflicted upon the Israelis, → if the world were still using the WWI standards and rules of engagement, the Israelis would pound the remaining Arab Palestinians into oblivion.

Between 1920 and 1916, the Arab Palestinian terrorist has inflicted over 3,700 deaths to the Israelis. "During the six years of the first uprising (Dec. 9, 1987 to Sep. 9, 1993), 200 people were murdered. More than 1,000 Israelis were killed during the Palestinian War (September 2000-September 2005)."
Sources: Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs (Terrorism Deaths in Israel; In Memory of the Victims of Palestinian Terror); Jerusalem Post, (January 4, 2009)

If the United States had been the victim of Palestinian Terrorism on this scale, the source of these attacks (West Bank and Gaza Strip) would probably have been introduced to a level of destruction equivalent to Tora Bora (Customary and IHL not-with-standing). It is not the apology (admission of wrong doing), but they do not trust the Arab Palestinian until such time as the Hostile Arab Palestinian becomes neutralized and out of the frame. But no one believes that the Arab Palestinians will accept an apology and move-on. What will happen (as near to a sure thing as anything on the planet) is that any official statement of that type will be taken and amplified for propaganda purposes, and to hold Israel criminally and civilly liable; while at the same time, absolving the terrorism and war crimes the Arab Palestinians have inflicted upon the Israels. Hell, the Palestinian attack on the Olympic Village in Munich is enough to villainy to prosecute the Palestinian Leadership and their successor villains. And the recently immortalized terrorist Dalal al-Mughrabi for machine-gunning a bus of unarmed passengers, including 12 children and call it heroic, is justified.

Israel, is focused on sovereignty. And they will not take any level of risk that might endanger their sovereignty. There is no way that the Arab Palestinians will own-up to the terrorism they have committed, on the grounds that they see it as justified. What position do you think the Israelis will take.

Israel did what it had to do to insure its survival and sovereignty. That single cause is justified every single day that the Hostile Arab Palestinians instigate a violent event and call it justified.

If I sound a little harsh here, it is not directed at you. But I find that kindness and understanding of some people who believe that the Palestinians are so heroic and fighting for a just cause, that the Palestinians (95% of the Arab Palestinians prowling the border fence never lived in Israel, let alone had Israel take something from them) are justified in any war crime, terrorist act or just plain criminal activity. If you have ever felt the heat of a suicide bomb or the shock and shaking of a car explode in front of you, --- you will then know what it is to be afraid of these poor downtrodden Palestinians that want to push their way inside of Israel to kill as many Israelis as the can.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[rylah]

....

Personally I think the Arab countries that expelled the Jews should issue, at least, a formal apology and make some movement towards a compensation or formal measure of some kind recognizing what they have done.

In my personal opinion it's quiet disingenuous to ask for a mere apology while demanding Jews compensate Arabs for a war they initiated.

All I'm saying -let's do the math, just don't complain when Arabs have no pants left.

I said, at the "least" because many of those people are no longer alive and I don't believe in monetary compensation to descendents (either Jewish or Palestinians). A formal apology and simple acknowledgement of wrong done can go a long ways. Including with the Palestinians.

Basically You've proven once more that the term 'Palestinian' was appropriated to refer only to Arabs, and to dissolve them from any responsibility in an all out coordinated war against Jews.

Arabs to this day continue with the demand of Jew free state in Judea,
and You demand an apology?!

For confiscated property, for expelling them from their villages, and for the laws that deliberately prevented them from reclaiming it, yes.

But damn, I keep forgetting - Israel can do no wrong!

That You have to reserve to such ridiculous strawman arguments only shows I've made my point clear.
Compared to 1400 years of Arab murder and theft, how Israel responded is drop in the bucket. That Jews were expelled from virtually every Arab country, while there're actually more Arabs living in Jewish ancestral land today than ever before - just shows You who caused most of loss in the conflict, and who's aim it was from the beginning.

Using Your logic Spaniards owe restitutions to the Caliphate for liberating Spain.

 

[Billo_Really]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
※→ Coyote, et al,

It is all connected. It is a cascade of event that has not reached its end.

I'm talking really, about a particular group of Palestinians. You don't think even an apology or acknowledgement that what was done (absentee property laws) is acceptable? That what Israel did in that case was fine? I honestly get the feeling folks feel Israel does no wrong and can not be held accountable for anything because of - but but the Palestinians!

What does this have to do with Israel surrendering its sovereignty? I don't understand what you mean. If the Turks apologize for the Armenian Genocide are they surrendering their sovereignty?

(COMMENT)

The time is not right, and the people are not mentally set to address each other.

There is no question, that given the amount of anguish, suffering, injury and damage the Arab Palestinian has inflicted upon the Israelis, → if the world were still using the WWI standards and rules of engagement, the Israelis would pound the remaining Arab Palestinians into oblivion.

Between 1920 and 1916, the Arab Palestinian terrorist has inflicted over 3,700 deaths to the Israelis. "During the six years of the first uprising (Dec. 9, 1987 to Sep. 9, 1993), 200 people were murdered. More than 1,000 Israelis were killed during the Palestinian War (September 2000-September 2005)."
Sources: Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs (Terrorism Deaths in Israel; In Memory of the Victims of Palestinian Terror); Jerusalem Post, (January 4, 2009)

If the United States had been the victim of Palestinian Terrorism on this scale, the source of these attacks (West Bank and Gaza Strip) would probably have been introduced to a level of destruction equivalent to Tora Bora (Customary and IHL not-with-standing). It is not the apology (admission of wrong doing), but they do not trust the Arab Palestinian until such time as the Hostile Arab Palestinian becomes neutralized and out of the frame. But no one believes that the Arab Palestinians will accept an apology and move-on. What will happen (as near to a sure thing as anything on the planet) is that any official statement of that type will be taken and amplified for propaganda purposes, and to hold Israel criminally and civilly liable; while at the same time, absolving the terrorism and war crimes the Arab Palestinians have inflicted upon the Israels. Hell, the Palestinian attack on the Olympic Village in Munich is enough to villainy to prosecute the Palestinian Leadership and their successor villains. And the recently immortalized terrorist Dalal al-Mughrabi for machine-gunning a bus of unarmed passengers, including 12 children and call it heroic, is justified.

Israel, is focused on sovereignty. And they will not take any level of risk that might endanger their sovereignty. There is no way that the Arab Palestinians will own-up to the terrorism they have committed, on the grounds that they see it as justified. What position do you think the Israelis will take.

Israel did what it had to do to insure its survival and sovereignty. That single cause is justified every single day that the Hostile Arab Palestinians instigate a violent event and call it justified.

If I sound a little harsh here, it is not directed at you. But I find that kindness and understanding of some people who believe that the Palestinians are so heroic and fighting for a just cause, that the Palestinians (95% of the Arab Palestinians prowling the border fence never lived in Israel, let alone had Israel take something from them) are justified in any war crime, terrorist act or just plain criminal activity. If you have ever felt the heat of a suicide bomb or the shock and shaking of a car explode in front of you, --- you will then know what it is to be afraid of these poor downtrodden Palestinians that want to push their way inside of Israel to kill as many Israelis as the can.

Most Respectfully,
R

Where's your link to what happened between 1916 and 1920?

 

[rylah]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
※→ Coyote, et al,

It is all connected. It is a cascade of event that has not reached its end.

I'm talking really, about a particular group of Palestinians. You don't think even an apology or acknowledgement that what was done (absentee property laws) is acceptable? That what Israel did in that case was fine? I honestly get the feeling folks feel Israel does no wrong and can not be held accountable for anything because of - but but the Palestinians!

What does this have to do with Israel surrendering its sovereignty? I don't understand what you mean. If the Turks apologize for the Armenian Genocide are they surrendering their sovereignty?

(COMMENT)

The time is not right, and the people are not mentally set to address each other.

There is no question, that given the amount of anguish, suffering, injury and damage the Arab Palestinian has inflicted upon the Israelis, → if the world were still using the WWI standards and rules of engagement, the Israelis would pound the remaining Arab Palestinians into oblivion.

Between 1920 and 1916, the Arab Palestinian terrorist has inflicted over 3,700 deaths to the Israelis. "During the six years of the first uprising (Dec. 9, 1987 to Sep. 9, 1993), 200 people were murdered. More than 1,000 Israelis were killed during the Palestinian War (September 2000-September 2005)."
Sources: Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs (Terrorism Deaths in Israel; In Memory of the Victims of Palestinian Terror); Jerusalem Post, (January 4, 2009)

If the United States had been the victim of Palestinian Terrorism on this scale, the source of these attacks (West Bank and Gaza Strip) would probably have been introduced to a level of destruction equivalent to Tora Bora (Customary and IHL not-with-standing). It is not the apology (admission of wrong doing), but they do not trust the Arab Palestinian until such time as the Hostile Arab Palestinian becomes neutralized and out of the frame. But no one believes that the Arab Palestinians will accept an apology and move-on. What will happen (as near to a sure thing as anything on the planet) is that any official statement of that type will be taken and amplified for propaganda purposes, and to hold Israel criminally and civilly liable; while at the same time, absolving the terrorism and war crimes the Arab Palestinians have inflicted upon the Israels. Hell, the Palestinian attack on the Olympic Village in Munich is enough to villainy to prosecute the Palestinian Leadership and their successor villains. And the recently immortalized terrorist Dalal al-Mughrabi for machine-gunning a bus of unarmed passengers, including 12 children and call it heroic, is justified.

Israel, is focused on sovereignty. And they will not take any level of risk that might endanger their sovereignty. There is no way that the Arab Palestinians will own-up to the terrorism they have committed, on the grounds that they see it as justified. What position do you think the Israelis will take.

Israel did what it had to do to insure its survival and sovereignty. That single cause is justified every single day that the Hostile Arab Palestinians instigate a violent event and call it justified.

If I sound a little harsh here, it is not directed at you. But I find that kindness and understanding of some people who believe that the Palestinians are so heroic and fighting for a just cause, that the Palestinians (95% of the Arab Palestinians prowling the border fence never lived in Israel, let alone had Israel take something from them) are justified in any war crime, terrorist act or just plain criminal activity. If you have ever felt the heat of a suicide bomb or the shock and shaking of a car explode in front of you, --- you will then know what it is to be afraid of these poor downtrodden Palestinians that want to push their way inside of Israel to kill as many Israelis as the can.

Most Respectfully,
R

Where's your link to what happened between 1916 and 1920?

Would that turn Arabs into the indigenous people of Judea all of a sudden?

 

[Billo_Really]

Would that turn Arabs into the indigenous people of Judea all of a sudden?

If you want to keep playing this bullshit game, then Jews are not indigenous to the area, either. Go back far enough and you'll find they moved there from Africa.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
※→ Coyote, et al,

It is all connected. It is a cascade of event that has not reached its end.

I'm talking really, about a particular group of Palestinians. You don't think even an apology or acknowledgement that what was done (absentee property laws) is acceptable? That what Israel did in that case was fine? I honestly get the feeling folks feel Israel does no wrong and can not be held accountable for anything because of - but but the Palestinians!

What does this have to do with Israel surrendering its sovereignty? I don't understand what you mean. If the Turks apologize for the Armenian Genocide are they surrendering their sovereignty?

(COMMENT)

The time is not right, and the people are not mentally set to address each other.

There is no question, that given the amount of anguish, suffering, injury and damage the Arab Palestinian has inflicted upon the Israelis, → if the world were still using the WWI standards and rules of engagement, the Israelis would pound the remaining Arab Palestinians into oblivion.

Between 1920 and 1916, the Arab Palestinian terrorist has inflicted over 3,700 deaths to the Israelis. "During the six years of the first uprising (Dec. 9, 1987 to Sep. 9, 1993), 200 people were murdered. More than 1,000 Israelis were killed during the Palestinian War (September 2000-September 2005)."
Sources: Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs (Terrorism Deaths in Israel; In Memory of the Victims of Palestinian Terror); Jerusalem Post, (January 4, 2009)

If the United States had been the victim of Palestinian Terrorism on this scale, the source of these attacks (West Bank and Gaza Strip) would probably have been introduced to a level of destruction equivalent to Tora Bora (Customary and IHL not-with-standing). It is not the apology (admission of wrong doing), but they do not trust the Arab Palestinian until such time as the Hostile Arab Palestinian becomes neutralized and out of the frame. But no one believes that the Arab Palestinians will accept an apology and move-on. What will happen (as near to a sure thing as anything on the planet) is that any official statement of that type will be taken and amplified for propaganda purposes, and to hold Israel criminally and civilly liable; while at the same time, absolving the terrorism and war crimes the Arab Palestinians have inflicted upon the Israels. Hell, the Palestinian attack on the Olympic Village in Munich is enough to villainy to prosecute the Palestinian Leadership and their successor villains. And the recently immortalized terrorist Dalal al-Mughrabi for machine-gunning a bus of unarmed passengers, including 12 children and call it heroic, is justified.

Israel, is focused on sovereignty. And they will not take any level of risk that might endanger their sovereignty. There is no way that the Arab Palestinians will own-up to the terrorism they have committed, on the grounds that they see it as justified. What position do you think the Israelis will take.

Israel did what it had to do to insure its survival and sovereignty. That single cause is justified every single day that the Hostile Arab Palestinians instigate a violent event and call it justified.

If I sound a little harsh here, it is not directed at you. But I find that kindness and understanding of some people who believe that the Palestinians are so heroic and fighting for a just cause, that the Palestinians (95% of the Arab Palestinians prowling the border fence never lived in Israel, let alone had Israel take something from them) are justified in any war crime, terrorist act or just plain criminal activity. If you have ever felt the heat of a suicide bomb or the shock and shaking of a car explode in front of you, --- you will then know what it is to be afraid of these poor downtrodden Palestinians that want to push their way inside of Israel to kill as many Israelis as the can.

Most Respectfully,
R

There is no question, that given the amount of anguish, suffering, injury and damage the Arab Palestinian has inflicted upon the Israelis,

You are too fucking funny, Rocco. Where do you get this shit?

Sources: Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs

Oop, there it is. Israel's premier bullshit site.

 

[rylah]

Would that turn Arabs into the indigenous people of Judea all of a sudden?

If you want to keep playing this bullshit game, then Jews are not indigenous to the area, either. Go back far enough and you'll find they moved there from Africa.

You mistakenly conflate native with indigenous.
But even Americans who have lived in a land for some 5 centuries, yet they still don't call themselves neither natives nor indigenous.

Being indigenous means creating a specific world heritage that connects a specific people to a specific land. It's a function of people who create a unique culture that is rooted in the land, language specific to only that land, maintaining presence and heritage of that land and holding it as a basis of a nation.

As for the Arabs they're as indigenous and native to Judea as the average US citizen to Milwaukee.
They themselves call the land "The Jewish Desert"...the Arab desert everyone knows where it is, as much as where their language belongs.

 

[Billo_Really]

You mistakenly conflate native with indigenous.
But even Americans who have lived in a land for some 5 centuries, yet they still don't call themselves neither natives nor indigenous.

Being indigenous means creating a specific world heritage that connects a specific people to a specific land. It's a function of people who create a unique culture that is rooted in the land, language specific to only that land, maintaining presence and heritage of that land and holding it as a basis of a nation.

As for the Arabs they're as indigenous and native to Judea as the average US citizen to Milwaukee.
They themselves call the land "The Jewish Desert"...the Arab desert everyone knows where it is, as much as where their language belongs.

Indigenous means native. Originally or occurring naturally in a particular place. Palestinian-Arabs are just as indigenous as Palestinian-Jews.

 

[rylah]

You mistakenly conflate native with indigenous.
But even Americans who have lived in a land for some 5 centuries, yet they still don't call themselves neither natives nor indigenous.

Being indigenous means creating a specific world heritage that connects a specific people to a specific land. It's a function of people who create a unique culture that is rooted in the land, language specific to only that land, maintaining presence and heritage of that land and holding it as a basis of a nation.

As for the Arabs they're as indigenous and native to Judea as the average US citizen to Milwaukee.
They themselves call the land "The Jewish Desert"...the Arab desert everyone knows where it is, as much as where their language belongs.

Indigenous means native. Originally or occurring naturally in a particular place. Palestinian-Arabs are just as indigenous as Palestinian-Jews.

Yeah, it's funny how for Arabs there's whole bunch of new mental gymnastics invented, and terms have to be turned upside down - to make that ridiculous claim.

 

[Billo_Really]

Yeah, it's funny how for Arabs there's whole bunch of new mental gymnastics and terms have to be turned upside down - to make that ridiculous claim.

That's not as ridiculous as saying that's your land because God told you so!

 

[rylah]

Yeah, it's funny how for Arabs there's whole bunch of new mental gymnastics and terms have to be turned upside down - to make that ridiculous claim.

That's not as ridiculous as saying that's your land because God told you so!

Well, You know, it's not called the Arabian Desert for a reason...



Sahara Yahudin -صحراء يهودا‎

The Judaean Desert or Judean Desert (Hebrew‎ Midbar Yehuda, both Desert of Judah or Judaean Desert; Arabic: Sahara Yahudan) is a desert in Israel and the West Bank that lies east of Jerusalem and descends to the Dead Sea. It stretches from the northeastern Negev to the east of Beit El, and is marked by terraces with escarpments.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Yeah, it's funny how for Arabs there's whole bunch of new mental gymnastics and terms have to be turned upside down - to make that ridiculous claim.

That's not as ridiculous as saying that's your land because God told you so!

Arabs say that Arabia is their land, because their Allah told them so.

It is ok for them, it is not ok for the Jews who are indigenous of the Land of Canaan to say it or want to keep any part of their indigenous land.

You do need to come up with a more indigenous idea than the one about "my god gave it to me" when it comes to the Muslims who do believe that Allah, not only gave Arabia to them - but the whole world.

You have not noticed how Muslims worked very hard for 1300 years to conquer and keep as much of the world to themselves as they could.

And they have not given up to it.

Just watch the news.

 

[Billo_Really]

Well, You know, it's not called the Arabian Desert for a reason...



Sahara Yahudin -صحراء يهودا‎

The Judaean Desert or Judean Desert (Hebrew‎ Midbar Yehuda, both Desert of Judah or Judaean Desert; Arabic: Sahara Yahudan) is a desert in Israel and the West Bank that lies east of Jerusalem and descends to the Dead Sea. It stretches from the northeastern Negev to the east of Beit El, and is marked by terraces with escarpments.

That's not what God said.

 

[rylah]

Well, You know, it's not called the Arabian Desert for a reason...



Sahara Yahudin -صحراء يهودا‎

The Judaean Desert or Judean Desert (Hebrew‎ Midbar Yehuda, both Desert of Judah or Judaean Desert; Arabic: Sahara Yahudan) is a desert in Israel and the West Bank that lies east of Jerusalem and descends to the Dead Sea. It stretches from the northeastern Negev to the east of Beit El, and is marked by terraces with escarpments.

That's not what God said.

That wasn't my argument either.
"The Jewish Desert" is how ARABS call the land.

You're welcome to use the info, stay away from my land.

 

[Billo_Really]

Arabs say that Arabia is their land, because their Allah told them so.

It is ok for them, it is not ok for the Jews who are indigenous of the Land of Canaan to say it or want to keep any part of their indigenous land.

You do need to come up with a more indigenous idea than the one about "my god gave it to me" when it comes to the Muslims who do believe that Allah, not only gave Arabia to them - but the whole world.

You have not noticed how Muslims worked very hard for 1300 years to conquer and keep as much of the world to themselves as they could.

And they have not given up to it.

Just watch the news.

Arabs don't say that and you took land that wasn't yours to begin with.

You can't move into an area and automatically have more rights than the people already living there.

 

[Billo_Really]

That wasn't my argument either.
"The Jewish Desert" is how ARABS call the land.

You're welcome to use the info, stay away from my land.

Okay, I stand corrected.

As far as staying away, what if I came to your land and said your house was my house now, because Tom Cruise told me so?

 

[rylah]

That wasn't my argument either.
"The Jewish Desert" is how ARABS call the land.

You're welcome to use the info, stay away from my land.

Okay, I stand corrected.

As far as staying away, what if I came to your land and said your house was my house now, because Tom Cruise told me so?

I'd ask if it was Tom Cruise who did the circumcision... if yes then I'd do it again, just to make sure You have at least the minimal condition to make that claim.

 

[Coyote]

....

Personally I think the Arab countries that expelled the Jews should issue, at least, a formal apology and make some movement towards a compensation or formal measure of some kind recognizing what they have done.

In my personal opinion it's quiet disingenuous to ask for a mere apology while demanding Jews compensate Arabs for a war they initiated.

All I'm saying -let's do the math, just don't complain when Arabs have no pants left.

I said, at the "least" because many of those people are no longer alive and I don't believe in monetary compensation to descendents (either Jewish or Palestinians). A formal apology and simple acknowledgement of wrong done can go a long ways. Including with the Palestinians.

Basically You've proven once more that the term 'Palestinian' was appropriated to refer only to Arabs, and to dissolve them from any responsibility in an all out coordinated war against Jews.

Arabs to this day continue with the demand of Jew free state in Judea,
and You demand an apology?!

For confiscated property, for expelling them from their villages, and for the laws that deliberately prevented them from reclaiming it, yes.

But damn, I keep forgetting - Israel can do no wrong!

That You have to reserve to such ridiculous strawman arguments only shows I've made my point clear.
Compared to 1400 years of Arab murder and theft, how Israel responded is drop in the bucket. That Jews were expelled from virtually every Arab country, while there're actually more Arabs living in Jewish ancestral land today than ever before - just shows You who caused most of loss in the conflict, and who's aim it was from the beginning.

Using Your logic Spaniards owe restitutions to the Caliphate for liberating Spain.

There is no straw man argument being made. Israel deliberately expelled certain Palestinians then created laws to prevent them from returning. That is wrong. Just as wrong, just as wrong as when the Jews were forceably expelled. Any kind of peace agreement would have to some how address that wrong even if it is simple acknowledgement.

Frankly I have yet to see any admission that Israel ever does anything wrong from most Team Israel supporters. And to pretend that these Palestinians are owed anything or that no wrong was done by Israel in this case. Was it ok for Jews to be expelled? Of course not. Was it ok for Palestinians to be expelled? Apparently so. I am not talking about hundreds or thousands of years of events. I am talking about an event where those who were the victims are still alive.

 

[rylah]

....

In my personal opinion it's quiet disingenuous to ask for a mere apology while demanding Jews compensate Arabs for a war they initiated.

All I'm saying -let's do the math, just don't complain when Arabs have no pants left.

I said, at the "least" because many of those people are no longer alive and I don't believe in monetary compensation to descendents (either Jewish or Palestinians). A formal apology and simple acknowledgement of wrong done can go a long ways. Including with the Palestinians.

Basically You've proven once more that the term 'Palestinian' was appropriated to refer only to Arabs, and to dissolve them from any responsibility in an all out coordinated war against Jews.

Arabs to this day continue with the demand of Jew free state in Judea,
and You demand an apology?!

For confiscated property, for expelling them from their villages, and for the laws that deliberately prevented them from reclaiming it, yes.

But damn, I keep forgetting - Israel can do no wrong!

That You have to reserve to such ridiculous strawman arguments only shows I've made my point clear.
Compared to 1400 years of Arab murder and theft, how Israel responded is drop in the bucket. That Jews were expelled from virtually every Arab country, while there're actually more Arabs living in Jewish ancestral land today than ever before - just shows You who caused most of loss in the conflict, and who's aim it was from the beginning.

Using Your logic Spaniards owe restitutions to the Caliphate for liberating Spain.

There is no straw man argument being made. Israel deliberately expelled certain Palestinians then created laws to prevent them from returning. That is wrong. Just as wrong, just as wrong as when the Jews were forceably expelled. Any kind of peace agreement would have to some how address that wrong even if it is simple acknowledgement.

Frankly I have yet to see any admission that Israel ever does anything wrong from most Team Israel supporters. And to pretend that these Palestinians are owed anything or that no wrong was done by Israel in this case. Was it ok for Jews to be expelled? Of course not. Was it ok for Palestinians to be expelled? Apparently so. I am not talking about hundreds or thousands of years of events. I am talking about an event where those who were the victims are still alive.

It's easy for You not to talk about "hundreds of years of event", because You'll be put in an impossible position to demand anything from Israel. You're just looking for excuses to find relativity where there's none.

Let's just talk about the Arab Pogroms in Syria Palestine that moved Jews to organize Zionism, shall we?....Yeah even there it all started with Arabs dispossessing Jews from their ancient holy cities.

There're simply no possible proportions for You to use to compare Israel's response to 1400 years of dispossession and subjugation under Arab/Muslim rule.

You're basically blaming an ant for biting an elephant's ass when it sat on it.

 

[Coyote]

,,,,

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
※→ Coyote, et al,

It is all connected. It is a cascade of event that has not reached its end.

I'm talking really, about a particular group of Palestinians. You don't think even an apology or acknowledgement that what was done (absentee property laws) is acceptable? That what Israel did in that case was fine? I honestly get the feeling folks feel Israel does no wrong and can not be held accountable for anything because of - but but the Palestinians!

What does this have to do with Israel surrendering its sovereignty? I don't understand what you mean. If the Turks apologize for the Armenian Genocide are they surrendering their sovereignty?

(COMMENT)

The time is not right, and the people are not mentally set to address each other.

There is no question, that given the amount of anguish, suffering, injury and damage the Arab Palestinian has inflicted upon the Israelis, → if the world were still using the WWI standards and rules of engagement, the Israelis would pound the remaining Arab Palestinians into oblivion.

Between 1920 and 1916, the Arab Palestinian terrorist has inflicted over 3,700 deaths to the Israelis. "During the six years of the first uprising (Dec. 9, 1987 to Sep. 9, 1993), 200 people were murdered. More than 1,000 Israelis were killed during the Palestinian War (September 2000-September 2005)."
Sources: Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs (Terrorism Deaths in Israel; In Memory of the Victims of Palestinian Terror); Jerusalem Post, (January 4, 2009)

If the United States had been the victim of Palestinian Terrorism on this scale, the source of these attacks (West Bank and Gaza Strip) would probably have been introduced to a level of destruction equivalent to Tora Bora (Customary and IHL not-with-standing). It is not the apology (admission of wrong doing), but they do not trust the Arab Palestinian until such time as the Hostile Arab Palestinian becomes neutralized and out of the frame. But no one believes that the Arab Palestinians will accept an apology and move-on. What will happen (as near to a sure thing as anything on the planet) is that any official statement of that type will be taken and amplified for propaganda purposes, and to hold Israel criminally and civilly liable; while at the same time, absolving the terrorism and war crimes the Arab Palestinians have inflicted upon the Israels. Hell, the Palestinian attack on the Olympic Village in Munich is enough to villainy to prosecute the Palestinian Leadership and their successor villains. And the recently immortalized terrorist Dalal al-Mughrabi for machine-gunning a bus of unarmed passengers, including 12 children and call it heroic, is justified.

Israel, is focused on sovereignty. And they will not take any level of risk that might endanger their sovereignty. There is no way that the Arab Palestinians will own-up to the terrorism they have committed, on the grounds that they see it as justified. What position do you think the Israelis will take.

Israel did what it had to do to insure its survival and sovereignty. That single cause is justified every single day that the Hostile Arab Palestinians instigate a violent event and call it justified.

If I sound a little harsh here, it is not directed at you. But I find that kindness and understanding of some people who believe that the Palestinians are so heroic and fighting for a just cause, that the Palestinians (95% of the Arab Palestinians prowling the border fence never lived in Israel, let alone had Israel take something from them) are justified in any war crime, terrorist act or just plain criminal activity. If you have ever felt the heat of a suicide bomb or the shock and shaking of a car explode in front of you, --- you will then know what it is to be afraid of these poor downtrodden Palestinians that want to push their way inside of Israel to kill as many Israelis as the can.

Most Respectfully,
R

I will add that there is also no question of the amount of anguish and suffering the Israelis have inflicted such as the use of white phosphorous in dense urban areas, the treatment of juveniles when arrested or in the military justice system. The way settlers are allowed to attack Palestinians but if Palestinians throw stones the get arrested. It IS a two way street and ACKNOWLEDGING that Israel has done some wrong things is not absolving the Palestinians of any of their actions. It is recognizing that underneath all this are people, who do have rights and legitimate wrongs should be recognized.