The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[Mertex]

If you goad someone into a fistfight and then pull a gun and kill him, you're a murderer.

If there isn't enough evidence to prove that's what you did,

then you get off.

They all claim that TM assaulted GZ, but all they have is GZ's version, and we know he is a liar, hmmmmmm. Considering GZ was the one stalking TM, seems rather unlikely.

 

[NYcarbineer]

[There's actually no evidence that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman.

True.

That is the truth that the rightwing racists and the rightwing us-vs.-them partisan extremists around here have now all but unanimously, tacitly, agreed to deny,

once again proving that to the rightwing cult, the truth is anything that makes you feel good.

 

[Interpol]

If you goad someone into a fistfight and then pull a gun and kill him, you're a murderer.

If there isn't enough evidence to prove that's what you did,

then you get off.

And that's exactly what they were hoping for when they passed all those self-defense laws in recent years, backed by the NRA: to make it easier to use your gun and to not have to actually be held responsible for it.

The funny thing is, the NRA comes out and says, "if the people in the movie theater had guns, they coulda stopped it" and if "the teachers at the school had guns, they coulda stopped it", but not once did they come out and say, "you know, if Trayvon had a gun, he could've prevented his attacker from shooting him in cold blood".

 

[Two Thumbs]

Follow up: What do you think of Stephanie and CrusaderFrank?

Two morons desperate for attention, IMO.

As for B-37 I agree with Lakhota, she had an agenda going in, and that agenda had nothing to do with trying to determine the truth.

no problem what you think of me, I think you are a arrogant ass who thinks your shit doesn't stink..so there...

LMAO And your mother wears combat boots.

We have a no family rule.

no family, not even in gest

 

[ScienceRocks]

There was a witness
The back of Zimmermans head
The fucked up nose

You leftist can't even see with your two eyes. What a bunch of brain dead morons.

I kindly suggest seeking some help because you need it. ASSHOLES!

 

[Mertex]

From the pull of the trigger to the not-guilty verdict, here's how the controversial self-defense law mattered.

Since George Zimmerman was acquitted in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, conservatives have argued that Stand Your Ground, Florida's expansive and controversial self-defense law, was irrelevant to the case. After all, Zimmerman waived his right to a pretrial hearing that might have granted him immunity under the statute, and his defense team chose not to raise it during the trial. Case closed, right?

This argument might make sense if, say, you didn't pay attention to the details of the case until a few days ago. In reality, Stand Your Ground played a major role, from Martin's death to Zimmerman's acquittal. Here's how:

An armed Zimmerman knew about Stand Your Ground years ago:

How Florida authorities let Zimmerman walk:

The jury instructions—and a reason for their verdict:

Why didn't Zimmerman's defense team use Stand Your Ground?​

DETAILS (w/Supporting Links): Actually, Stand Your Ground Played a Major Role in the Trayvon Martin Case | Mother Jones - By Mark Follman and Lauren Williams

The jury instructions (page 12) and comments from juror B37 clearly show the role that Stand Your Ground played in the verdict.

If TM had been white and GZ had been black, the Stand Your Ground or Self Defense Laws would have been twisted to serve the Florida justice's purpose and GZ would now be in prison, probably for life or facing death and Republican/conservatives would be cheering.

 

[Oldstyle]

If his response was "ok", then why did he continue to follow Trayvon?

Sorry...............but if you tell me that you don't need me to follow someone, and I answer "ok", but continue to do so, that means that I didn't follow the directions that I was given.

Zimmerman continued to follow Trayvon after being told he didn't need to do that.

There is no evidence that GZ continued to follow him. Besides the non-emergency operator has no authority to tell anyone anything. He can only advise. Why don't you learn the facts so you don't look so ignorant.

You're right..................because of political correctness and all that other bullshit, the 911 operator didn't have the authority to tell Zimmerman to stop following. However...............they DID tell him "we don't need you to do that" when he said he was going to follow Trayvon

And what did Zimmerman SAY when he was told "we don't need you to do that?"

"OK"?

 

[NYcarbineer]

If you goad someone into a fistfight and then pull a gun and kill him, you're a murderer.

If there isn't enough evidence to prove that's what you did,

then you get off.

And that's exactly what they were hoping for when they passed all those self-defense laws in recent years, backed by the NRA: to make it easier to use your gun and to not have to actually be held responsible for it.

The funny thing is, the NRA comes out and says, "if the people in the movie theater had guns, they coulda stopped it" and if "the teachers at the school had guns, they coulda stopped it", but not once did they come out and say, "you know, if Trayvon had a gun, he could've prevented his attacker from shooting him in cold blood".

I brought that up about 15 months ago.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/5026739-post9.html

 

[ScienceRocks]

If they silence you then our freedom of speech is gone. There's NOTHING illegal about being racist or speaking truth to power!

Don't be silent!!!

Speak the truth with facts

 

[Interpol]

There was a witness
The back of Zimmermans head
The fucked up nose

You leftist can't even see with your two eyes. What a bunch of brain dead morons.

I kindly suggest seeking some help because you need it. ASSHOLES!

How do you know Trayvon wasn't defending himself when those minor, insignificant injuries occurred?

How do you know GZ's gun didn't break his own nose upon the recoil? His make and model is known for its recoil and I wouldn't put it past GZ to have broken his own stupid nose himself, since he was obviously totally unfit to do his volunteering job in the first place.

There is actually ZERO evidence that Trayvon was the attacker, and there was no GZ blood or DNA on TM's hands.

Suck it.

 

[NYcarbineer]

There was a witness
The back of Zimmermans head
The fucked up nose

You leftist can't even see with your two eyes. What a bunch of brain dead morons.

I kindly suggest seeking some help because you need it. ASSHOLES!

The injuries are not definitive proof because they don't show who started the fight. If Zimmerman started or instigated a fight,

and that was proven,

he would have been guilty. It couldn't be proven, so innocent until proven guilty got him off.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Because the witnesses and the injuries show that he was the thug.

We will never know one way or another. This is what happens when you attack a armed man.

 

[LoneLaugher]

I'm white and I've heard car locks click as I walk through a parking lot at night...I've had old ladies cross the street as I've approached at night. STOP whining and feeling like you're the only one that has been dissed you idiot. Every man has his mountains in life to climb. Hey Black man! including you Obama! toughen up buttercup. Stop blaming people that look different than you for your rotten station in life.

Did you just say that Obama is blaming someone for his rotten station in life?

 

[LoneLaugher]

could HAVE been

 

[Interpol]

Oh brother. Another internet tough guy!

You attack someone you go to jail moron!!

The 911 operator isn't a cop and has no authority. Besides GZ said "ok" when advised not to follow and you have zero evidence that he continued to follow TM as a matter of fact at that point in time GZ had already lost sight of TM so he couldn't follow him even if he wanted to you stupid ass!

How the fuck do you know? Were you there?

How do you know he lost sight of him? How do you know he listened to the dispatcher?

There's actually no proof he listened to them because the shooting happened quite a ways from where his vehicle was, even though the GZ true believers think it happened right next to the car.

Everything GZ was saying points to him definitely not letting TM out of his sight. "These fucking punks always get away", he said. He wasn't going to let the kid out of his sight because he wanted the credit for apprehending him.

In the non-emergency call, GZ says "I don't know where this kid is", which is a good indication that he lost sight of him.

Whether he listened to the operator or not doesn't matter, you can't follow someone when you don't know where they are. Besides, you don't know that he "didn't" listen to the operator. And again, whether he did or didn't GZ did nothing to warrant being attacked.

What?

We know he didn't listen to the operator, because he got out of his car AND because from Jeantel's phone it was GZ who spoke to TM first, and not the other way around, which means GZ did end up finding his prey.

 

[Oldstyle]

My original point was that only Zimmerman knows for sure and again was given the opportunity to officially identify who it was and didn't.

The strength of Good's testimony is that he could identify forms in the dark. When it comes to screaming, that strength disappears.

John Good FULL Testimony. George Zimmerman Trial - YouTube

@19:35 when asked by prosecutor, "As you are turning around, I guess, and going back inside your residence, I shouldn't say turning around, I should say just putting your foot back inside your residence, are you hearing any screams or yells of help from outside there"? Good answers, "My adrenaline was going, I can't remember."

He can't even remember if ANYONE was screaming.

You are confusing his identifying the person in the prone position as obviously yelling "Help, help, help" with the screaming that we have been discussing. The yelling of "Help" was not heard clearly or heard at all on the 911 tape.

If you go back and look at that tape you'll find him remembering that someone was screaming at 17:25, 19:10, 22:49, 36:02, 53:22 and 99:00 of his testimony. What you "say" is his not being able to remember if anyone was screaming if for the period of time when he went from the outside back inside to make the 9/11 call...a time when he said he couldn't remember hearing screams because he was focused on making the call.

As for "Help" not being heard at all on the 9/11 tape? Good makes that call AFTER the shot was fired. The cries for help that were so clearly audible on the Lauer 9/11 call were no longer taking place because Trayvon Martin was no longer beating George Zimmerman.

No, you're wrong altogether. He never made a definitive ID of who screamed, after being asked about it several times throughout the testimony. All he gave were a lot of assumptions of who should have been yelling based on position. Again, you're confusing simply assuming the person on the bottom was yelling for help with screaming.


@35:40

Question: In terms of the, I think you stated, three cries for help or three screams

Good: I think I stated one, two, maybe

Question: I apologize then

Good: Could have possibly been three

Question: I don't want you to guess, but definitely one or two?

Good: Yes

Question: Was it all one voice or was it more than one voice?

Good: It sounded to be the same voice.

Question: And you're not able to identify that voice or are you able to identify it?

Good: No, not 100%, no.

Question: And to make sure the record's clear, what you heard, when you looked out there and saw the two individuals, and you heard one say "help," did you only hear "help, help" or did you hear anything else but "help, help"?

Good: That's all I heard.


@52:50

O'Mara: And that's when you saw him striking down?

Good: That's what it looked like, yes, arm movement going down. Downwards correct.

O'Mara: How many times do you think?

Good: I have no idea. Soon as I saw the movement going downwards, that's when I turned around and went back inside.

O'Mara: That's when you knew it was very serious?

Good: Yes, it looked like it was getting serious and wasn't just someone playing around.

O'Mara: And that's when you could hear George Zimmerman screaming for help, right?

Good: Incorrect

O'Mara: When was it?

Good: That was in the beginning, when I finally saw someone under the person on top.

O'Mara: Then I apologize for not asking the question the right way. When was the first time that you heard the person on the bottom scream for help?

Good: When I initially went outside, didn't see a second person, then I could see a second person, and it sounded like it was coming from the person on the bottom, because usually when someone's on top, the person on the bottom is the one screaming or yelling, and that was when I heard that, but I didn't hear anything after that.

O'Mara: Ok, and balancing your trying to be literal and just tell us exactly what you remember observing and using your common sense, do you think that it was the person on the bottom who was screaming for help?

Good: I mean rationally thinking, I would think so.

O'Mara: Matter of fact, I think, you said in response to De La Rionda's question, "Had it been Trayvon Martin screaming for help, since his back was to you, it would have had to be going...the yell would be going away from you, and I think you said it would have to bounce off the wall before you would heard it?

Good: Well I think it would sound different. That's why in my head I thought it was coming from the person on the bottom.

O'Mara: And the sound that you heard was sounding like a person screaming from 15 or 17 feet away, almost directly at you, right?

Good: It sounded like it was coming towards me, correct.


@99:00

Question: You also were asked about the 1, 2, or 3 times about the time you heard "help"? You believe it was the person on the bottom. Is that correct? You're not 100% sure, but you believe just because the person on the bottom would be the one yelling for help?

Good: Correct

Question: Is that what your conclusion or common sense or assumptions is based on?

Good: And that's when I first saw the person on the bottom, yes.

Question: Now and you said also, because I think, if you felt the person on top was yelling for "help," that it would not have come towards you, in other words, the voice would not have carried towards where you are, correct?

Good: Yes.

Question: So could it be the person on top was yelling "help" and since he was face up, face down, it would have been towards the ground, and not you?

[Object on speculation]

Judge: He can testify as to what he's actually seen.

Good: I didn't see anyone's mouth moving, so no, I can't confirm that.

Question: You can't say that the person on top was yelling for help, but his voice would have gone into the ground, and you would not have been able to hear that? You can't say he wasn't yelling for help?

Good: Well that would have sounded muffled, I would think.

Question: But did you hear that?

Good: I didn't hear a muffled, "help." No.

Question: And you never saw the person's on the bottom's hands in terms of whether he had a gun at that time? You couldn't say one way or another, correct?

Good: No.

I'm not mistaking anything. Mr. Good was very careful with his testimony. It's why I liked him so much as a witness. He basically said that he wasn't 100% positive about anything. He's intelligent enough to know that he's viewing something for 8-10 seconds on a dark rainy night in dim light. Good is quite clear that there is a small amount of doubt in his mind about what took place. He's also quite clear that he believes it was George Zimmerman who is on the bottom and it's George Zimmerman that he believes is yelling for help. All in all...John Good blew the Prosecution's case out of the water! There's so much reasonable doubt raised by JUST his testimony that the jury would have most likely found Zimmerman not guilty with only Good's version of events.

 

[Esmeralda]

So, lets say for some odd reason Zimmerman does not pull the gun and shoot, gets pummeled, and suffers serious injury at the hands of the 17 year old, do you still defend Trayvon?

What would you do if some scary, creepy guy was following you in a dark area where no one was around? If I could, yes, I'd attack him and beat the shit out of him. I'm a woman and if a would be rapist were following me in a dark area and I'm alone, and I had a chance, I'd rip the guy to shreds. I used to run and took a big dog with me. If any guy had bothered me or scared me like that, I'd have sent the dog on him w/o hesitation, and if the dog chewed him to bits, I'd be happy about it. People keep saying there is no law against following anyone. They have apparently not been followed at night in a deserted area: let me tell you, it scares the shit out of you; your heart pounds like it's going to break through your ribcage; it's terrifying. I don't at all fault someone for attacking a would be rapist or any other kind of would be attacker. No one has the right to put fear and terror in someone the way some scary, creepy ass whatever would do if he were following you around at night in a dark deserted area. He deserves to have the shit beat out of him. Why the hell didn't Zimmerman simply identify himself as Neighborhood Watch?????????

 

[Politico]

Slam a 40 for Trayvon!

Looks like Frank has already done two or three.

 

[Lakhota]

Nice OP link. Thanks.

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

Obama resign? Who the fuck do you think he is...Sarah Palin???

ROFLMFAO