The tell-tale signs of a coming nightmare: Social security is just the beginning

[william the wie]

"that possibility really is"

Umm the key word here is possibility.

If we adjust the retirement age upwards (due to longer lifetimes) and remove the upper salary cap for SS withholding, the possibility will likely vanish.

At least for the next 100 years.

The real issue with SS is that the govt spent the surplus and does not want to pay it back.

The last sentence is certainly true but you really have to get into the guts of the assumptions made by the CBO, TOMB, the think tanks and all of the rest of the dueling guesstimates to determine the bottomline. While I agree with your position and have said so I am much less confident that it can be eliminated that easily.

1) The pay in and pay out states meme is one boobytrap. The "pay in" states being on average older than most the nation as a whole are the primary recipients of SS so there is a huge and inaccurate body of data that will be uncovered in the process of reform. The blood tax of military service also tends to be disregarded in the pay in pay out debate. This will complicate matters a lot.

2) No one trusts the economic stats being put out by any side. Politicians lie but voters act as if their guy is both truthful and competent which are two dubious assumptions for the price of one. Getting a working consensus going will be rough.

3) The promotion of off label use of generic drugs and streamlining the acceptance of medical equipment is also needed. This week's "The Economist" had an article on low cost Chinese and Indian medical equipment especially imaging equipment, that was shocking. A complete body scan in India costs 1-10% of what it does here because of simpler technology. The UHC bureaucracy that is being set up will be a huge roadblock to medical progress.

So, while what we both propose would work getting it passed in one swell foop is unlikely in the extreme, it will be a long, drawn out process.

 

[asterism]

Well, one thing about that budget...he's eliminated all statistical agencies and anyone capable of analyzing the economy, so no one would know how bad things are.

What's wrong with that? Everyone has gotten it wrong so far.

 

[pinqy]

Well, one thing about that budget...he's eliminated all statistical agencies and anyone capable of analyzing the economy, so no one would know how bad things are.

What's wrong with that? Everyone has gotten it wrong so far.

That's a meaningless statement. How could you know everyone has gotten it wrong, unless you know what the correct answer is? And if you know what the correct answer is, then clearly not everyone has gotten it wrong.

I think you're thinking about predictions, which none of the US statistical agencies tend to do. I'm just talking about measuring...Employment, Unemployment, the GDP, inflation, real wages, safety and health statistics etc.

 

[asterism]

Well, one thing about that budget...he's eliminated all statistical agencies and anyone capable of analyzing the economy, so no one would know how bad things are.

What's wrong with that? Everyone has gotten it wrong so far.

That's a meaningless statement. How could you know everyone has gotten it wrong, unless you know what the correct answer is? And if you know what the correct answer is, then clearly not everyone has gotten it wrong.

The correct answer is that the economy spiraled down quickly and has been stuck there for years. We didn't need a bunch of government employees to know that. The government employees got everything in regards to what was wrong, what to do about it, and how bad it was.

I think you're thinking about predictions, which none of the US statistical agencies tend to do. I'm just talking about measuring...Employment, Unemployment, the GDP, inflation, real wages, safety and health statistics etc.

Not predictions, the state of the economy at any given time. All of it was wrong and still is. What's the use of incorrect information?

 

[georgephillip]

Do you see any use for Unemployment Insurance?

 

[MikeK]

New congressional projections show Social Security running deficits every year until its trust funds are eventually drained in about 2037.

The health of the Social Security program exists in proportion to the health of the Economy in general. This is not the first time the program has dragged its feet and it won't be the last. But to perceive these occasional bumps in the road as death knells is to succumb to the kind of paranoia which is being promoted by fanatical Libertarians and by corporatist propagandists whose ambitious agenda is to turn the gold-mine, which Social Security is, over to the Wall Street gamblers who are responsible for the present economic crisis.

"gold-mine"????

Really?

As noted, that "gold-mine" was NEVER meant to be the source of one's retirement, in total.
It was meant to provide for "basic necessities". How anyone can perceive it as a "gold-mine", or 'market' it to gullible American citizens as a "gold-mine" for their golden years, is beyond me.

A significant percentage of every weekly or bi-weekly paycheck of every working American, along with a matching sum attached by his or her employer, is transferred to the Social Security Fund. If you don't consider that fund to be a metaphorical gold mine that the Wall Street speculators would trade their children to gain control of I respectfully suggest that the Three Stooges, Beck, Limbaugh and Hannity, have so effectively bent your mind that you have trouble with even the simplest propositions.

Further, those "bumps" referred to are coming hard and fast and more frequently as the years tick by. Why is that? Why would a program that is ONLY supposed to provide "basic necessities" (something very simple), be in the red this frequently, this fast since it's inception?

The Three Stooges have convinced you that the Social Security Fund is "in the red" when in fact it is perfectly sound. If it makes you happy to believe those corporatist propagandists I won't try to spoil your pleasure. But try to understand that with a few minor adjustments the program will continue to function indefinitely as flawlessly as it has for the past seventy-five years.

Even further, you've assumed that I'm all for turning the program over to Wall Street.

Wrong. I'm for turning it over to the people who are contributing, whether they want to or not, to the program. The funds are taken from them, out of their earnings, without their consent. This is a constitutional republic, and a free society, and those two things mean that people should be able to control the funding of their own retirements with the money that is basically stolen from them every time the eagle shits.

If someone wants to sinnk their funds into Wall Street...So be it. If they know what they are doing, they'll do a WAY better job than government is doing. It would also force people to actually THINK about their senior years, and their retirement, instead of sitting back on their ass and assuming, incorrectly, that SS will be enough to "get by on" in their later years.

The best answer I can give you has already been put forth by DaGoose who said the Social Security program has been implemented as a necessary and effective means of protecting average Americans from themselves! That is it in a nutshell -- and it's been doing a fine job of it for the past 75 years.

The kernel of the program's wisdom rests in the critical component of your above paragraph; "If they know what they are doing." Where planning for the future in this advertising-driven consumer culture of ours is concerned, maybe you and a few others know what you're doing, but the average American simply doesn't. They are literally hypnotized by Madison Avenue into spending every penny that comes into their hands, often on things they don't need, and until they reach their late forties they simply don't believe they ever will grow old and retire. And whether you wish to believe it or not, or whether you like it or not, those are the facts.

And there's the money line....Big bad ol' BOOOOOSH did it! No one else. Never ever, no one else.

If you're not "alert" enough to understand that this problem was caused by BOTH parties, over years and years....this is going to turn into a pissing contest, real fast.

Go ring out, jr....You're done.

I won't suggest that the Democrats have always acted with complete altruism but the fact is the present economic disaster has its roots in Reaganomics. And there is no way you or any member of your neo-Conservative cult can factually deny that George W. Bush inherited an impressive projected surplus and immediately set about to waste it and to utterly sabotage the Economy in order to advance the interests of his "base."

If you don't believe that, if you cannot understand that patently obvious fact, then your mind has been effectively altered by The Three Stooges and there is nothing that I can say that will change it.

 

[asterism]

Do you see any use for Unemployment Insurance?

Yes.

Generally, it works.

 

[georgephillip]

If Pinqy's assessment of Rand Paul's proposal is correct, there would seem to be little practical value in maintaining UI if the government agency responsible for calculating Unemployment levels is abolished.

Would you endorse privatizing the Bureau of Labor Statistics?

Census Bureau?

 

[Jarlaxle]

At a minimum Social Security and Medicare eligibility needs to be indexed to life expectancy more or less immediately.

The obvious change would be to make it like it was at its founding: on average, people should be able to collect starting 3 years after they die.

 

[Donald H]

It's a part of repairing America's broken infrastructure that Biden plans to fix.

Biden must be stopped. He almost certainly will be stopped. Most Americans feel no need to see income inequality dealt with by fairer taxation of the very wealthy.

The message is, bring back Trump and he will do something about America's crumbling infrastructure, including shoring up social security.

The money to do it will be magically pulled out of his ass.

Canada ranked #1 country in the world for Quality of Life | News

For the fifth year in a row, Canada is ranked the #1 country in the world in 2020 for Quality of Life, according to a global ranking from US News.

dailyhive.com

Waiting for an election to bring back Trump would be waiting too long. America is already down to 15th. on quality of life, and the people are already gunning down America's children on the streets!

 

[Joh17]

Thats likely the reason for the Covid fascism and why some push for war.