Zone1 Theoretical question regarding Christian duty to forgive

[BackAgain]

There is another thread in a different forum, here. It’s headline is:

Hitler admired Islam but hated the Arabs as a 'race'​

My original reaction to just he headline was: who cares about Yotler? I’m glad he’s dead if there really is a hell, I thought, I’d hope he was having a terrible time there. But that led me to this thought (and thread OP):

Is it morally wrong to wish eternal torment on a piece of evil s#*@, even as bad as Hitler? Or, if one is a Christian, is it one’s duty to seek mercy and charity even for that hideous scumbag murderous puke.

(I’m not very religious and I don’t mean to offend. I am just genuinely curious.)

 

[MarathonMike]

From a non-Christian perspective, forgiveness is just not holding a grudge. If you carry a beef with someone, then it affects you negatively. Better to just let it go.

 

[Meriweather]

There is another thread in a different forum, here. It’s headline is:

Hitler admired Islam but hated the Arabs as a 'race'​

My original reaction to just he headline was: who cares about Yotler? I’m glad he’s dead if there really is a hell, I thought, I’d hope he was having a terrible time there. But that led me to this thought (and thread OP):

Is it morally wrong to wish eternal torment on a piece of evil s#*@, even as bad as Hitler? Or, if one is a Christian, is it one’s duty to seek mercy and charity even for that hideous scumbag murderous puke.

(I’m not very religious and I don’t mean to offend. I am just genuinely curious.)

One Sunday, we were given this to contemplate: Does mercy make a mockery of justice?

God judges the human heart, so I don't give Hitler much thought. What I do give some thought and prayer to is may we never have another like Hitler, that the world may be blessed instead.

 

[MarathonMike]

One Sunday, we were given this to contemplate: Does mercy make a mockery of justice?

God judges the human heart, so I don't give Hitler much thought. What I do give some thought and prayer to is may we never have another like Hitler, that the world may be blessed instead.

So when you say "God judges the human heart", what is meant by that?

 

[ElmerMudd]

There is another thread in a different forum, here. It’s headline is:

Hitler admired Islam but hated the Arabs as a 'race'​

My original reaction to just he headline was: who cares about Yotler? I’m glad he’s dead if there really is a hell, I thought, I’d hope he was having a terrible time there. But that led me to this thought (and thread OP):

Is it morally wrong to wish eternal torment on a piece of evil s#*@, even as bad as Hitler? Or, if one is a Christian, is it one’s duty to seek mercy and charity even for that hideous scumbag murderous puke.

(I’m not very religious and I don’t mean to offend. I am just genuinely curious.)

I will give you credit for a good question.
I have those same questions about Trump.
It is a good question.

 

[Meriweather]

So when you say "God judges the human heart", what is meant by that?

Jeremiah notes, Who can understand the human heart, it is deceitful. Samuel says man judges by outward appearance, God judges the heart. Hebrews adds that God's Word is like a sharp tool, judging thoughts and intentions of the heart. (In scripture, heart and soul are sometimes used interchangeably.)

 

[Z99]

Is it morally wrong to wish eternal torment on a piece of evil s#*@,

Yes, according to the Bible.

 

[Votto]

There is another thread in a different forum, here. It’s headline is:

Hitler admired Islam but hated the Arabs as a 'race'​

My original reaction to just he headline was: who cares about Yotler? I’m glad he’s dead if there really is a hell, I thought, I’d hope he was having a terrible time there. But that led me to this thought (and thread OP):

Is it morally wrong to wish eternal torment on a piece of evil s#*@, even as bad as Hitler? Or, if one is a Christian, is it one’s duty to seek mercy and charity even for that hideous scumbag murderous puke.

(I’m not very religious and I don’t mean to offend. I am just genuinely curious.)

It is only natural to hate those who hate you. It is only natural to want to kill those who murder others.

What is supernatural though, is the ability to love those who persecute you and wish you harm.

Meet the apostle Paul.

He thought Christianity to be heresy, so, he did what any "good" practicing Jew would, he hunted them down and stoned them to death. But Paul was also clever and strategic, knowing exactly how to strike them and hurt their fledgling religion in the most hurtful way, so much so that the high priest Caiaphas teamed up with Paul to destroy them, recognizing his usefulness to the cause. Paul was also highly educated and could also slay the Christian theology with words while he was stoning you to death. No doubt about it, Paul was a real bad ass.

But then, Paul went to Damascus. Mwhahahahahaha!!!!

He was blinded, and shaken, and a changed man who was told to go there and illicit the help of a Christian there who would pray for him to have his sight returned, or so said the voice in the vision of God that he had.

Naturally, when he entered the city completely blind and met the Christian, the Christian had a natural reaction, which was a mix of terror and anger and resentment. In a way, it was 100% purposeful for God to illicit such a reaction because the underlying message was, God works in the supernatural by working miracles to redeem all of mankind. God then turned Paul into a Christian. God turned the best instrument for the destruction of Christianity into the best instrument to promote is, as Paul then wrote most of the NT as he eloquently defended the faith using his expertise in Jewish theology to make it all cohesive. Again, Paul was still the same bad ass, only on the right team this time.

Jesus gave the same message with the parable of the Good Samaritan when he was asked what is meant to love your neighbor. Jews and Samaritans were natural enemies, not even wanting to engage each other in conversation., yet the only person to help the dying Jew on the side of the road were not his Jewish brothers, all of whom passed him by to let him die, but it was the Samaritan who stopped to help who should have naturally wanted him to die.

Shrug. If you want a manmade religion or philosophy, the notion of loving your enemy is absurd. But if you want to embrace the theology of a God who can perform the supernatural, the mandate is to love you enemy.

Sorry.

And yea, it's not easy, but again, that is purposeful because your faith should not work aside from God. In fact, it should be impossible without God. If not, you are doing it wrong

 

[HikerGuy83]

There is another thread in a different forum, here. It’s headline is:

Hitler admired Islam but hated the Arabs as a 'race'​

My original reaction to just he headline was: who cares about Yotler? I’m glad he’s dead if there really is a hell, I thought, I’d hope he was having a terrible time there. But that led me to this thought (and thread OP):

Is it morally wrong to wish eternal torment on a piece of evil s#*@, even as bad as Hitler? Or, if one is a Christian, is it one’s duty to seek mercy and charity even for that hideous scumbag murderous puke.

(I’m not very religious and I don’t mean to offend. I am just genuinely curious.)

Well, if we have all sinned and fallen short, then we require mercy.

What happens to Adolph is between him and God.

I would prefer not to be wishing evil on anyone.

If they deserve it, they'll get it.

 

[Godboy]

There is another thread in a different forum, here. It’s headline is:

Hitler admired Islam but hated the Arabs as a 'race'​

My original reaction to just he headline was: who cares about Yotler? I’m glad he’s dead if there really is a hell, I thought, I’d hope he was having a terrible time there. But that led me to this thought (and thread OP):

Is it morally wrong to wish eternal torment on a piece of evil s#*@, even as bad as Hitler? Or, if one is a Christian, is it one’s duty to seek mercy and charity even for that hideous scumbag murderous puke.

(I’m not very religious and I don’t mean to offend. I am just genuinely curious.)

How many times have you heard a Christian say "he will burn in Hell for this", or something similar? Yes, thats right, they will feel good about an evil person going to a place where he will burn and scream in agony for eternity. Dont get me wrong, im fine with it too (im a cold hearted atheist who likes seeing bad people punished), but im not a hypocrite who goes around saying that everyone should be forgiven. "Forgiveness" is fucking gay.

 

[BackAgain]

Yes, according to the Bible.

I am not disagreeing with you. You may be right. But the follow up question is then, if it is immoral to wish eternal torment on evil people then why would God create such a place for sinners?

 

[Z99]

if it is immoral to wish eternal torment on evil people then why would God create such a place for sinners?

He didn't. That doctrine was created by humans after botching the translation of early, New Testament, scriptures written in ancient Koine Greek. Please read the following, which I copied from another site.

I found this interesting. This was Chatgpt response to the meaning of the word aion or aionios as it is used in the New Testament.

"Aiónios (αἰώνιος)
Root Meaning:As the adjective form of αἰών, αἰώνιος should logically carry the sense of "pertaining to an age" or "age-enduring."
It does not inherently mean eternal but rather something that endures for the duration of an age, which could be finite or infinite depending on the context.

Theological Context: Origen and Clement of Alexandria, were among the early Christian theologians who interpreted αἰώνιος in terms of finite "ages" rather than unending eternity, unless specifically referring to God or divine attributes. They often emphasized restoration (apokatastasis), suggesting that aiónios punishment was corrective and limited to an age, not eternal.

In contrast, later theological developments (particularly under Augustine) interpreted αἰώνιος as equivalent to "eternal" in a more absolute sense, especially in discussions of eternal punishment versus eternal life."
Even AI understands that the meaning of the word aion evolved and was later translated as eternity particularly under Augustine.

 

[Z99]

If you want a manmade religion or philosophy, the notion of loving your enemy is absurd. But if you want to embrace the theology of a God who can perform the supernatural, the mandate is to love you enemy.

Yes, because we are ALL God's children and so we are ALL brothers and sisters. Those who don't follow Jesus are simply unready to do so right now but, eventually, perhaps even after death, they too will follow Jesus. The end of the ages (aka the "end of the world") will culminate when ALL are following Jesus.

1 Corinthians 15:22-28 esv
22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. 24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For “God[c] has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. 28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.