We’re number 37! USA USA USA!!

[Mr Natural]

1) How can the governing body in control of regulation and standards be 'competition'?
2) No lib still gives any reason as to why they are owed something for their personal care at the expense of another, the government, or the populace
3) No sufficient answer ever given as to why the government would run anything better than the red tape laden, overbloated, failure entitlement systems that they already have in their grasp (and should not be in their grasp)

I'm not "owed" a police officer when my house get's broken into either... or a fire department to extinguish it when it's burning, or interstate highways, or NIH to prevent the country from facing an epidemic. But I do pay for these things, whether I use them or not, and I don't get mad at the neighbors when the fire department puts out their blazing house "At my expense."

"Libs" are not freedom hating conspirators. Some things are done far more efficiently at a community level, some at a state level, and some at a federal level. As it turns out, healthcare is done far more efficiently at a federal level. You can disagree with that statement, but making fun of liberals and prattling on about "entitlements" is not constructive.

And since we're talking about existing "entitlements," you don't have to use them either. If you think the police are not doing a good enough job, you can hire private security, armed or otherwise. You can hire someone to install a sprinkler system in your house, or hire someone to stand outside all day with a garden hose in case of fire for god's sake. You're not forced into using these things, but they exist for anyone who needs them.

The difference between things for a populace and things for individuals is quite easy to understand.... you see... you and I can both use a road, a park... it is public domain... your body and your personal well being is not....

There is ZERO evidence that any healthcare done at any federal level is 'efficient' but nice try

I don't know about that. Here's a teabagger who seems to be happy with her government provided healthcare plan.

 

[rightwinger]

I'm not "owed" a police officer when my house get's broken into either... or a fire department to extinguish it when it's burning, or interstate highways, or NIH to prevent the country from facing an epidemic. But I do pay for these things, whether I use them or not, and I don't get mad at the neighbors when the fire department puts out their blazing house "At my expense."

"Libs" are not freedom hating conspirators. Some things are done far more efficiently at a community level, some at a state level, and some at a federal level. As it turns out, healthcare is done far more efficiently at a federal level. You can disagree with that statement, but making fun of liberals and prattling on about "entitlements" is not constructive.

And since we're talking about existing "entitlements," you don't have to use them either. If you think the police are not doing a good enough job, you can hire private security, armed or otherwise. You can hire someone to install a sprinkler system in your house, or hire someone to stand outside all day with a garden hose in case of fire for god's sake. You're not forced into using these things, but they exist for anyone who needs them.

The difference between things for a populace and things for individuals is quite easy to understand.... you see... you and I can both use a road, a park... it is public domain... your body and your personal well being is not....

There is ZERO evidence that any healthcare done at any federal level is 'efficient' but nice try

I don't know about that. Here's a teabagger who seems to be happy with her government provided healthcare plan.

She is an obvious SOCIALIST WHORE

 

[Douger]

NOT FUCKING TRUE...OR IS IT TROO ?
You are number one !
The greatest nation that has ever existed !
The #1 nation on earth as far as creating death and destruction !!!
Gawd Blass Murkastan !!!

 

[SwingVoter]

HC debate has long departed from any rational discussion of economics.

It doesn't matter who pays, there is only one way to really bring down costs - restrict supply. In Canada, you can't get an MRI if you need one, in America you'll get one if you don't need one. Which system is worse?

 

[CMike]

Here is a basic economics 101 question.

What will happen if the government artificially keeps cost below market value?

 

[Harry Dresden]

Bring it up with Harry Dresden.
He is the one who has been hounding me about whether I would go for treatment in Oman.
Like I said, I would hae no problem with it

look Rw....you can say what you want....if you were in Oman and had somthing go wrong with your Heart or another vital part....and they said we can do it here.....or you could go and have it done back home at a top rated surgery center....i think we know were you would go Rw....so Oman has made great strides in medicine....did they go from 1930's med tech to the 70's medical technology?....that would be considered a great improvement....remember...they are still 3rd world....

I think you are mistaken about Oman. They are not "third world" they are a fairly wealthy nation. I have never been there but unlike other African nations, I would not use the risk of inadequate healthcare as a reason for not going there.
Would I go home if I had an option? sure I would as I would if I were in Texas or Wyoming if I got sick. I would prefer being treated close to home. From what I have read, Oman has pretty decent healthcare and deserves a high rating. Covering 99% of their people is admirable

when i googled third world nations Oman was mentioned on a few lists as being third world....they are not on any first world list i saw.....and i believe it was the CIA world book that said Oman's 2-3 bigger cities seem to get most of the oil cash....another list said the same and they added that the rest of the country looks like it did in the 1930's....so you show me a list that says they are first world and ole Harry will say....ok you got me.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

The 60% bankruptcies are because of health costs is bogus. How do you bankrupt somone who has nothing. Bankruptcy is a formality a person must go through when costly care is beyond their means to pay for it. This is politicians creating more laws so their crony lawyers can feed at the govt trough

Health care is free in the USA for anyone in need

anyone

Theres no need to change the system at all

well i dont know about that....if you get stuck with a hundred thousand dollar hospital bill.....you have a hundred thousand dollar bill to pay....if you can get someone to pay for it, thats great...if not, your stuck....and the system needs reform.....its not right that you can get dropped if you become ill with a so-called "expensive" disease....

 

[Harry Dresden]

I'm not "owed" a police officer when my house get's broken into either... or a fire department to extinguish it when it's burning, or interstate highways, or NIH to prevent the country from facing an epidemic. But I do pay for these things, whether I use them or not, and I don't get mad at the neighbors when the fire department puts out their blazing house "At my expense."

"Libs" are not freedom hating conspirators. Some things are done far more efficiently at a community level, some at a state level, and some at a federal level. As it turns out, healthcare is done far more efficiently at a federal level. You can disagree with that statement, but making fun of liberals and prattling on about "entitlements" is not constructive.

And since we're talking about existing "entitlements," you don't have to use them either. If you think the police are not doing a good enough job, you can hire private security, armed or otherwise. You can hire someone to install a sprinkler system in your house, or hire someone to stand outside all day with a garden hose in case of fire for god's sake. You're not forced into using these things, but they exist for anyone who needs them.

The difference between things for a populace and things for individuals is quite easy to understand.... you see... you and I can both use a road, a park... it is public domain... your body and your personal well being is not....

There is ZERO evidence that any healthcare done at any federal level is 'efficient' but nice try

I don't know about that. Here's a teabagger who seems to be happy with her government provided healthcare plan.

we had people out here carrying signs like that.....and they were not teabaggers....they were elderly and disabled people reacting to the fact that the govt said their benefits were going to be slashed and their rates raised....

 

[Harry Dresden]

NOT FUCKING TRUE...OR IS IT TROO ?
You are number one !
The greatest nation that has ever existed !
The #1 nation on earth as far as creating death and destruction !!!
Gawd Blass Murkastan !!!

who the fuck are you?.....have you ever posted anything that makes even a little sense?....your like a fly...you jump in the middle of a debate with stupid inane posts....then take off after you deposit your shit....and show up at another thread...and do the same damned thing...

 

[Harry Dresden]

HC debate has long departed from any rational discussion of economics.

It doesn't matter who pays, there is only one way to really bring down costs - restrict supply. In Canada, you can't get an MRI if you need one, in America you'll get one if you don't need one. Which system is worse?

really?.....so if i went to the doctor for the flu....he will send me for an MRI?.........if this is happening to you....change Doctors .....

 

[WillowTree]

I'm not "owed" a police officer when my house get's broken into either... or a fire department to extinguish it when it's burning, or interstate highways, or NIH to prevent the country from facing an epidemic. But I do pay for these things, whether I use them or not, and I don't get mad at the neighbors when the fire department puts out their blazing house "At my expense."

"Libs" are not freedom hating conspirators. Some things are done far more efficiently at a community level, some at a state level, and some at a federal level. As it turns out, healthcare is done far more efficiently at a federal level. You can disagree with that statement, but making fun of liberals and prattling on about "entitlements" is not constructive.

And since we're talking about existing "entitlements," you don't have to use them either. If you think the police are not doing a good enough job, you can hire private security, armed or otherwise. You can hire someone to install a sprinkler system in your house, or hire someone to stand outside all day with a garden hose in case of fire for god's sake. You're not forced into using these things, but they exist for anyone who needs them.

The difference between things for a populace and things for individuals is quite easy to understand.... you see... you and I can both use a road, a park... it is public domain... your body and your personal well being is not....

There is ZERO evidence that any healthcare done at any federal level is 'efficient' but nice try

I don't know about that. Here's a teabagger who seems to be happy with her government provided healthcare plan.

she look 65 to you? welldoeshehun?

 

[WillowTree]

NOT FUCKING TRUE...OR IS IT TROO ?
You are number one !
The greatest nation that has ever existed !
The #1 nation on earth as far as creating death and destruction !!!
Gawd Blass Murkastan !!!

Fuck You! Have a nice day!

 

[CMike]

The issue is we have paid for our Medicare .

The democrats want to take it away.

 

[WillowTree]

The issue is we gave paid for our Medicare .

The democrats want to take it away.

no sweetie,, they want what you worked and paid for,

 

[csbarry]

So you also believe that a higher weight should be placed on consistency of care rather than quality of care?

Actually, I should have put it another way. Instead of saying "I believe their ranking system covers the pertinent points and should be considered accurate", I should have said that the rankings come from well a established entity and should be considered and reviewed. I'm inclined to believe that an organization such as the United Nations would look at each nation under the same microscope and draw a fair conclusion. I'll admit, I haven't read the report. One has to wonder, France is no third world country. Just what is it that they have that we don't?

Socialism, that's what they have that we don't. Had you bothered to read any of the gazillion threads in which we ALREADY dissected this stupid-shit, biased, agenda-driven report from 10 freaking years ago - or bothered to read the report itself, for that matter - you would know that one of their primary considerations for how spiffy a healthcare system was (even more important than how good the doctors and hospitals were, how healthy the people were, etc.) was how socialized it was. Yeah, no bias THERE.

You could probably be more gullible, but I think it would require special surgery.[/QUOTE

Ya' know, the harder you try to put us down is in a direct correlation with how ignorant you are, no shit.

 

[AvgGuyIA]

Q. Where has a Government takeover ever been proposed?

A. By Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, et al on conservative radio; on Fox "News", and by the 'leadership' of the Republicans in the House and Senate as well as by Chairman Steele.

And the government "didn't take over General Motors and Chrysler" either, huh? The public option IS the government; plus they make all the rules for the private insurance sector. That's just a small part of what's in store for American health care.

"We are all about socializing....er...um.....ahh...." - Maxine Waters

Actually, the government didn't "take over" GM and Chrysler either. What we did was place conditions on the bailout. If you take our money ...here is what you will have to do. The government is not running either company
The public option is just that....AN OPTION

Yeah...right. Who fired the Chairman of General Motors?

 

[JimH52]

If health care reforms fail and the insurance premiums of some of the far right that I know double in the next 5 years, many of us will be back to remind you...

 

[AvgGuyIA]

Outsider´s View

As a german, I sometimes do not understand the heat in your debate.
Man, what you already call socialism, would be the lowest standard of healthcare in a lot of industrializes countries.
Anyway, obviously a matter of perspective...

Living in a country, where a healthcare insurance is obligatory, I can tell you, that it is a myth, that any public or state owned system is non-profit orientated.
It is rather an accounting definition how you call a surplus.
In Germany the doctors use a very complex system to charge their costs to the public insurances. Every treatmeant has a point value, which represents a certain worth in EUR.
On the other side is the government fund, all public insurers get their money from.
Simple system: The more points you have via the doctors, the more money you get from the fund.
So, a simple reflux of stomach acid can either be what it is (not many points), or a more difficult thing can be diagnosed, which the doctor gets more points for.

The problem now is, that the government fund (the sum of all payments from the insured) is not limitless available.
Still, it is the interest of all public insurances to get as many points. They even start to train doctors how to "choose" the more lucrative diagnosis.

So, as I see it, you Americans should not think about if the state becomes to powerful, but who is getting his hands into the pot of gold.

As I do have a full-hearted trust in the greed of man, I think, that any system, be it private or public, will be a system, where people try to get a maximum of money out of - better known as profit.

Does competition make a difference ?
I do not think so.
Hands on heart, we all go to the doctr or a hospital, because we trust the one or distrust the other. Or we use a simple calculation of costs:
The best specialist is expensive, so the young doctor will do it.
Or I need a certain operation in case of need and then I just take the one who will save my life or my leg or whatever. Face it: Healthcare is not comparable to buying a car or a computer.
So, it all comes down to what we can afford. And in this regard I prefer a public system like here, where I do have access to specialists, without having to think about the costs.

regards
ze germanguy

Well...you can KEEP YOUR SOCIALIZED HEALTHCARE because all you people know about is "Heil Hitler" and being under the subjugation of the State. We Americans are an independent lot who pull ourselves up by our boot straps. We don't need no stinkin' commune to live in. Our Hippies here have tried that already and it doesn't work because sooner or later the hardest working hippie gets tired of doing all the work while the others kick back.

 

[Cuyo]

Here is a basic economics 101 question.

What will happen if the government artificially keeps cost below market value?

You miss the point. We already pay for uninsured, we just do so in an insanely expensive way, through the ER. Someone without insurance ignores a cold or bronchitis as long as they can, and go to the ER only when it's progressed to pneumonia and he fears for his life. The $10 Z-Pack that would've taken care of it just ballooned to a week in the hospital.

That said, we're not talking about artificially keeping costs low, but aiming to actually reduce costs. In ECO101 we'd say we're attempting to move the demand curve to the left.

The other aspect that hasn't really been addressed by politicians; Health problems are often contagious. What would it do to healthcare costs when we have a tuberculosis outbreak? Again, antibiotics for a few, or potentially thousands of very sick people.

 

[Cuyo]

Well...you can KEEP YOUR SOCIALIZED HEALTHCARE because all you people know about is "Heil Hitler" and being under the subjugation of the State. We Americans are an independent lot who pull ourselves up by our boot straps. We don't need no stinkin' commune to live in. Our Hippies here have tried that already and it doesn't work because sooner or later the hardest working hippie gets tired of doing all the work while the others kick back.

Really?

Shame on you! This is simply indefensible.