What are the "exraordinary measures" the Treasury under Yelin is taking to avoid a collapse caused by the debt ceiling?

[Seymour Flops]

Here is what Yelin says she will do:

In a letter addressed to House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, R-Calif., Yellen said the Treasury will suspend new investments in the Civil Service Retirement and Disability Fund and the Postal Service Retiree Health Benefits Fund from Thursday until June 5, 2023. But she warned both moves are subject to “considerable uncertainty” if Congress does not pass a bill to increase the $31.4 trillion debt ceiling.

The Treasury secretary told lawmakers Friday that she believes the extraordinary steps could allow the government to pay its obligations until early June. Yellen last week urged Congress to “act in a timely manner to increase or suspend the debt limit,” as failing to do so could lead to a first-ever default on U.S. debt and cause economic damage around the world.

So, what does that mean? It means that the government takes borrowed money and "invests" in Treasury notes. Those notes are part of the debt. So not issuing them to the Civil Service and Postal funds means creating less debt.

How does the debt ceiling affect the CSRDF?

The CSRDF is invested in special-issue Treasury securities, which count against the debt limit. In 1986, Congress provided Treasury statutory authority to take certain actions in the event that the outstanding debt reaches the debt limit. Specifically, the statute authorizes the Secretary of the Treasury to determine that a "debt issuance suspension period" exists and, once he has done so, Treasury can (1) redeem certain existing investments in the CSRDF, and (2) suspend new investments by the CSRDF.

So, two things:

1) the money that the government uses to buy treasury notes from itself, is not "invested" in any logical meaning of the term. The government immediately spends that money. The same is true for the treasury notes the social security administration buys. The bonds it buys are are "special issue," available only to "trust funds."

Don't trust that trust fund. They represent the debt the government owes the fund, not any actual money in the fund. They pay from current revenues from the money deducted from paychecks and when that is not enough, they "cash" the bonds

2) Federal retirement is so generous that all or the overwhelming majority of the debt we constantly make goes to their retirement fund.

So, the easy first step is to end this incredible gift to federal "workers," and let them invest in 401k, 403b, and whatever other investments they choose to prepare for retirement. That's what the taxpayers who are giving this gift have to do.

Grandfather in "workers" who have been a certain number of years, expecting the Santa Claus retirement, but no more for new or future employees. Federal job will still be sinecures for Democratic voters, just a little less costly to those footing the bill.

 

[1srelluc]

Here is what Yelin says she will do:

In a letter addressed to House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, R-Calif., Yellen said the Treasury will suspend new investments in the Civil Service Retirement and Disability Fund and the Postal Service Retiree Health Benefits Fund from Thursday until June 5, 2023. But she warned both moves are subject to “considerable uncertainty” if Congress does not pass a bill to increase the $31.4 trillion debt ceiling.

The Treasury secretary told lawmakers Friday that she believes the extraordinary steps could allow the government to pay its obligations until early June. Yellen last week urged Congress to “act in a timely manner to increase or suspend the debt limit,” as failing to do so could lead to a first-ever default on U.S. debt and cause economic damage around the world.

So, what does that mean? It means that the government takes borrowed money and "invests" in Treasury notes. Those notes are part of the debt. So not issuing them to the Civil Service and Postal funds means creating less debt.

How does the debt ceiling affect the CSRDF?

The CSRDF is invested in special-issue Treasury securities, which count against the debt limit. In 1986, Congress provided Treasury statutory authority to take certain actions in the event that the outstanding debt reaches the debt limit. Specifically, the statute authorizes the Secretary of the Treasury to determine that a "debt issuance suspension period" exists and, once he has done so, Treasury can (1) redeem certain existing investments in the CSRDF, and (2) suspend new investments by the CSRDF.

So, two things:

1) the money that the government uses to buy treasury notes from itself, is not "invested" in any logical meaning of the term. The government immediately spends that money. The same is true for the treasury notes the social security administration buys. The bonds it buys are are "special issue," available only to "trust funds."

Don't trust that trust fund. They represent the debt the government owes the fund, not any actual money in the fund. They pay from current revenues from the money deducted from paychecks and when that is not enough, they "cash" the bonds

2) Federal retirement is so generous that all or the overwhelming majority of the debt we constantly make goes to their retirement fund.

So, the easy first step is to end this incredible gift to federal "workers," and let them invest in 401k, 403b, and whatever other investments they choose to prepare for retirement. That's what the taxpayers who are giving this gift have to do.

Grandfather in "workers" who have been a certain number of years, expecting the Santa Claus retirement, but no more for new or future employees. Federal job will still be sinecures for Democratic voters, just a little less costly to those footing the bill.

You have no fucking idea what you are talking about.......

Current pensions are absolutely nothing like the old (and yes, very generous) civil service pensions (CSRS) plan which are long gone, ending in '87 replaced by FERS....In fact it was gone a couple years before the wife started.

My wife is a retired .gov worker (GS-13....30-odd years service under the FERS system) and there's nothing overly generous about her retirement check.

Her TSP savings/investment plan is where real retirement savings come from.

Educate yourself.....I doubt that there are too many "full ride" CSRS retirees still alive by now.

 

[Seymour Flops]

You have no fucking idea what you are talking about.......

Current pensions are absolutely nothing like the old (and yes, very generous) civil service pensions (CSRS) plan which are long gone, ending in '87 replaced by FERS....In fact it was gone a couple years before the wife started.

My wife is a retired .gov worker (GS-13....30-odd years service under the FERS system) and there's nothing overly generous about her retirement check.

Her TSP savings/investment plan is where real retirement savings come from.

Educate yourself.....I doubt that there are too many "full ride" CSRS retirees still alive by now.

If all that is true, why would it be that pausing "investments" into the retirement system pauses the need for more debt?

Sounds like you are a "Republican, but" meaning a person who claims to want fiscal responsibility . . . but wants the program they benefit from to be untouched.

 

[1srelluc]

If all that is true, why would it be that pausing "investments" into the retirement system pauses the need for more debt?

Sounds like you are a "Republican, but" meaning a person who claims to want fiscal responsibility . . . but wants the program they benefit from to be untouched.

Damn straight or are you a one of those assholes who thinks a contract between employer and employee should be voided on a whim because it suits you at any given time?

The world wonders

 

[Harpy Eagle]

2) Federal retirement is so generous that all or the overwhelming majority of the debt we constantly make goes to their retirement fund.

Can you give the figures for this. In 2022 year we "made" 1.2 trillion dollars of debt. What percent of that debt is going to pay these "generous retirements"?

 

[Ringo]

A default in the United States will lead to a recession in the American economy and could trigger a global financial crisis. This was warned by the country's Finance Minister Janet Yellen in an interview with CNN. The rating of US debt obligations may be lowered. American taxpayers pay 1.5 billion in taxes a month, while the US external debt increases by about 6.4 billion dollars a day.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/01/20/politics/yellen-amanpour-debt-limit-cnntv/index.html

 

[Seymour Flops]

Damn straight or are you a one of those assholes who thinks a contract between employer and employee should be voided on a whim because it suits you at any given time?

The world wonders

I think only you are wondering that. "The world" surely read this part of my statement:

Grandfather in "workers" who have been a certain number of years, expecting the Santa Claus retirement, but no more for new or future employees. Federal job will still be sinecures for Democratic voters, just a little less costly to those footing the bill.

To be fair, that was at the end of my post, by which time you may have been crying so hard over the thought of losing that government check or it being smaller that your vision was too blurry to read it.

Can you give the figures for this. In 2022 year we "made" 1.2 trillion dollars of debt. What percent of that debt is going to pay these "generous retirements"?

I guess you'd have to ask Janet Yelin for the exact figures. It was she who stated that by pausing investments into federal retirement funds, we would not need to make any more debt until June.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

So, the easy first step is to end this incredible gift to federal "workers," and let them invest in 401k, 403b, and whatever other investments they choose to prepare for retirement. That's what the taxpayers who are giving this gift have to do.

Grandfather in "workers" who have been a certain number of years, expecting the Santa Claus retirement, but no more for new or future employees. Federal job will still be sinecures for Democratic voters, just a little less costly to those footing the bill.

Anyone that joined the Fed Govt after 1987 gets 1% of their 3 year average salary per year when they retire. Work 25 years, get 25%.

And they do have a very nice TSP program.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I guess you'd have to ask Janet Yelin for the exact figures. It was she who stated that by pausing investments into federal retirement funds, we would not need to make any more debt until June.

It is one of many measures they will take.

You made the claim that all or the overwhelming majority of the debt we constantly make goes to their retirement fund.

Can you support that claim or not?

 

[Seymour Flops]

Anyone that joined the Fed Govt after 1987 gets 1% of their 3 year average salary per year when they retire. Work 25 years, get 25%.

And they do have a very nice TSP program.

To be clear, it is not necessary that they "work" 25 years. They just have to be on the federal payroll for 25 years.

As agencies pivot their thinking about the role of hybrid work — a mix of in-person and telework opportunities — for the federal workforce, some federal employees are raising questions about the reasons behind working in the office at all.

Close to two-thirds — about 64% — of respondents in an exclusive Federal News Network online survey said they were satisfied with their current work situation. But at the same time, the requirement of working in the office at least once a week was a pain point for some.

“We’ve been fully remote for over two years. The hybrid is a very difficult adjustment. The mission has been accomplished with no interruption, so why the requirement to be in the office?” one respondent wrote.

Survey: As agencies turn to hybrid work, many feds want more remote options

About 64% of FNN survey respondents said they were satisfied with their current work situation, but at the same time, the requirement of working in the office at least once a week was a pain point for some.

federalnewsnetwork.com

A "pain point?" I suppose it is a "pain" to answer the alarm and go into the office one whole day out of every seven. My guess is that it is so painful that they call in sick on Monday, or whatever day they are supposed to go in. Why not? They get plenty of sick days, and they certainly would not waste them on Tuesday through Thursday when they are already off anyway.

Like the one respondent wrote, the mission - which is to get a steady paycheck and a generous retirement - hasn't been interrupted at all. From their perspective it makes sense. None of their office clothes fit anymore, just their sweats and yoga pants, so it would be inconvenient to have to buy a whole new wardrobe.

 

[Seymour Flops]

It is one of many measures they will take.

You made the claim that all or the overwhelming majority of the debt we constantly make goes to their retirement fund.

Can you support that claim or not?

Yelen did not list many measures that I know of. What are the many measures? All she said in the article I cited was this:

In a letter addressed to House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, R-Calif., Yellen said the Treasury will suspend new investments in the Civil Service Retirement and Disability Fund and the Postal Service Retiree Health Benefits Fund from Thursday until June 5, 2023. But she warned both moves are subject to “considerable uncertainty” if Congress does not pass a bill to increase the $31.4 trillion debt ceiling.

The Treasury secretary told lawmakers Friday that she believes the extraordinary steps could allow the government to pay its obligations until early June

That is one measure, or two if you want to stretch a point. Is that what you meant by "many?"

Maybe she is taking other measures, in which case I would be incorrect. What are they?

But if that is all she is doing and it allows us to not make any further debt until June, then that one thing or those two things are driving out debt.

I'm really surprised at the stance you are taking here. Our debt is crushing us and it is unsustainable. You and I won't live to see it, but our grandkids are going to pay the price for all this.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

To be clear, it is not necessary that they "work" 25 years. They just have to be on the federal payroll for 25 years.

As agencies pivot their thinking about the role of hybrid work — a mix of in-person and telework opportunities — for the federal workforce, some federal employees are raising questions about the reasons behind working in the office at all.

Close to two-thirds — about 64% — of respondents in an exclusive Federal News Network online survey said they were satisfied with their current work situation. But at the same time, the requirement of working in the office at least once a week was a pain point for some.

“We’ve been fully remote for over two years. The hybrid is a very difficult adjustment. The mission has been accomplished with no interruption, so why the requirement to be in the office?” one respondent wrote.

Survey: As agencies turn to hybrid work, many feds want more remote options

About 64% of FNN survey respondents said they were satisfied with their current work situation, but at the same time, the requirement of working in the office at least once a week was a pain point for some.

federalnewsnetwork.com

A "pain point?" I suppose it is a "pain" to answer the alarm and go into the office one whole day out of every seven. My guess is that it is so painful that they call in sick on Monday, or whatever day they are supposed to go in. Why not? They get plenty of sick days, and they certainly would not waste them on Tuesday through Thursday when they are already off anyway.

Like the one respondent wrote, the mission - which is to get a steady paycheck and a generous retirement - hasn't been interrupted at all. From their perspective it makes sense. None of their office clothes fit anymore, just their sweats and yoga pants, so it would be inconvenient to have to buy a whole new wardrobe.

Unlike you, I have no problem with people working from home. Most I know that do it are more productive in less time than they were sitting in an office.

My BIL has been working from home for 20 years, his company literally has no office for them to go to.

My brother has been working from home since COVID. In Aug of last year his firm told all the employees they would have to return to the office. He called the owner of the firm and told them he already had an offer from a different company and that if they made him come in, he would resign. They instead gave him a raise and asked him if there was anything in his old office they could ship to his house.

I have been working from home 90% of the time since COVID. I am far more productive at home where I do not have people stopping by to talk to me all the time.

The one common factor in all those above is none are hourly employees.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I'm really surprised at the stance you are taking here. Our debt is crushing us and it is unsustainable. You and I won't live to see it, but our grandkids are going to pay the price for all this.

You are surprised that I am calling out your lies about Govt employees?

Not sure why that would surprise you.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Unlike you, I have no problem with people working from home. Most I know that do it are more productive in less time than they were sitting in an office.

My BIL has been working from home for 20 years, his company literally has no office for them to go to.

My brother has been working from home since COVID. In Aug of last year his firm told all the employees they would have to return to the office. He called the owner of the firm and told them he already had an offer from a different company and that if they made him come in, he would resign. They instead gave him a raise and asked him if there was anything in his old office they could ship to his house.

I have been working from home 90% of the time since COVID. I am far more productive at home where I do not have people stopping by to talk to me all the time.

Yes, people who are interested in doing the best job possible, or whose employers demand a certain level of productivity can work at home, in the office, at a research station at the North Pole, or anywhere that it is possible to do the work.

The one common factor in all those above is none are hourly employees.

The other common factor is that they are not federal employees.

You are surprised that I am calling out your lies about Govt employees?

Not sure why that would surprise you.

I'm surprised that you lied about the "many measures" you claimed Janet Yelen is taking. I said that if you are telling the truth, I would be incorrect. But you were lying, so I was correct.

I'm surpised that you think federal employees are very efficient and dedicated workers who will put in more hours and be more productive if they are allowed to sit at home all day.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I'm surprised that you lied about the "many measures" you claimed Janet Yelen is taking.

Tis not a lie. That you pretend it is does not concern me in the least.

I'm surpised that you think federal employees are very efficient and dedicated workers who will put in more hours and be more productive if they are allowed to sit at home all day.

I think that Fed Employees are just like every other type of employee. There are good ones and bad ones.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I'm surprised that you lied about the "many measures" you claimed Janet Yelen is taking. I said that if you are telling the truth, I would be incorrect. But you were lying, so I was correct.

Treasury resorts to ‘extraordinary measures’ after US hits debt limit

Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen on Thursday notified congressional leaders that her office will begin to implement “extraordinary measures” to keep the U.S. government from defaulting on …

thehill.com

To avoid a default, Yellen previously detailed emergency measures her department would prepare in order to stave off a default.

Those measures include temporarily redeeming existing and suspending new investments of the Civil Service Retirement and Disability Fund and the Postal Service Retiree Health Benefits Fund.

Yellen also pointed to “suspending reinvestment of the Government Securities Investment Fund (G Fund) of the Federal Employees Retirement System Thrift Savings Plan” as another course of action in a letter last week

 

[Seymour Flops]

Tis not a lie. That you pretend it is does not concern me in the least.

Then name them.

I think that Fed Employees are just like every other type of employee. There are good ones and bad ones.

There are far more lazy and incompetent people in the Federal government than in the private sector. The private sector at least makes an effort to get rid of deadweight. Federal agencies take pride in their useless employees.

Treasury resorts to ‘extraordinary measures’ after US hits debt limit

Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen on Thursday notified congressional leaders that her office will begin to implement “extraordinary measures” to keep the U.S. government from defaulting on …

thehill.com

To avoid a default, Yellen previously detailed emergency measures her department would prepare in order to stave off a default.

Those measures include temporarily redeeming existing and suspending new investments of the Civil Service Retirement and Disability Fund and the Postal Service Retiree Health Benefits Fund.

Yellen also pointed to “suspending reinvestment of the Government Securities Investment Fund (G Fund) of the Federal Employees Retirement System Thrift Savings Plan” as another course of action in a letter last week

Yes, those were the same measures that I talked about. Two measures is not "many measures," so that was a lie.

If you think the word "include" means that there must be many more, but you are only guessing, say so and you will be an honest man again, for as long as you choose to stay honest.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

If you think the word "include" means that there must be many more,

Yes, the word means there are others.

Basic grammar.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Anyway, if the workesters are done trying to derail the thread with their absurd defenses of federal "workers," let's talk about Yellen's action.

Politically, it is brilliant. No fake shutdowns, no wailing and gnashing of teeth over a collapsing government. Just a pause on the government lending money to itself by "investing" in its own bonds. No one could possibly be hurt, except (theoretically) retired federal employees, who are a lock as Democrat voters anyway.

Working class Democrats, if there are any left, are not going to feel sorry for lifelong government check recipients because the fund for future checks takes a hit. Workers, more than any other group, have reason to be acutely aware of how unfair it is that favored federal employees are treated so generously with their hard-earned tax dollars.

What do you think federal employees below GS13 do all day, if they don't have to come into work? My guess is that many of them are taking online college courses using never to be paid back student loan so they can get that master's degree.

Or, they may take the classes in-person. Why not? "Remote working" does not require a person to stay at home. Have laptop, will travel. Stay logged onto the agency website as "proof" that you are working and sit in classes or on the commons watching the people. It's no fun to be stuck at home all day, right?

I say, if any federal worker doesn't like it, let them quit. Retire right now and your retirement is locked in, or take a lump sum if you don't have enough years in. If you stay, no promises for the future.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Yes, the word means there are others.

Basic grammar.

It implies it, but it doesn't state it. I can say that my vehicles include a truck and a sedan, and it is a true statement even though those are my only vehicles.

You think there are others? What are they, then, and how do you know that there are "many?"