What Good is Democracy?

DGS49

Diamond Member
Apr 12, 2012
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13,316
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Pittsburgh
"We" are currently engaged in a battle that focuses on the nature of "democracy," where neither side is willing to be honest about what is at stake, what their objectives are, and how they hope to achieve them.

The fundamental un-asked question is, what is the good of Democracy?

Democracy has been accurately described as organized mob rule. The Founders of the United States understood the real dangers of "democracy" because in the Constitution there is not a single significant matter (for the Federal Government) that is decided by popular vote. All major decisions, and all major policy choices are made by the Peoples' elected representatives, but the Founders would have been horrified at the thought of things like passage of legislation or a declaration of war being decided by a vote of The People.

The People, acting collectively, are often idiots.

But today's Democrats have, without saying it aloud, proposed a philosophical extension of "democracy."

Up until now, it was understood and accepted that NOT EVERY CITIZEN SHOULD BE VOTING. There are people who are ignorant, uninvolved, stupid, incompetent, illiterate, lazy, or distracted who basically have never voted in their lives, despite having the "right" to do so. Less than 62% of the eligible, voting age population voted in 2012 and 2016. That means that approximately 38% were in the categories highlighted above.

Without actually saying so, previous generations set up requirements for voters that sought to weed out these people. You had to register in advance to vote, and keep your voter registration up to date when you move, had a name change, etc. You had to come to the polls on Election Day and identify yourself, then sign a ballot, with the signature cross-matched with the signature on file from your original registration. In some states ,they had "Literacy Tests," which recently came into disfavor because they were being used to screen out Blacks and other undesirables, but note well that the Supreme Court NEVER SAID that literacy tests for voters were unconstitutional...only that they were impermissible when used for a nefarious purpose. So again, these very modest requirements were established to weed out the "38%" highlighted above who ought not to be voting.

But today's Democrats are seeking out the votes of these 38%-ers with reckless abandon, because they (the Democrats) know that these people are easily influenced by the "bright shiny objects" that they are offering - "free" college, "free" medical care, subsidized housing, reparations for slavery, $15 minimum wage, and so on. And indeed these are nothing but "bright shiny objects" because they will probably never come to be, at least in the form that they are promised.

In short, the Democrats are campaigning for the votes of people who should not be voting. They propose that the 38%-ers should not have to register in advance, that they should not need to get a photo-ID card, that they should not have their signatures checked when voting, and that they need not come to the polls on Election Day. Each and every one of these initiatives is an attempt to secure more votes from the 38%-ers.

And in the face of this, the Republicans are seeking to avoid having THIER votes watered down by not only the 38%-ers. but also millions and millions of people illegally in the country, whom Mr. Biden openly campaigns to supply with Voter ID cards!

As we all now see, any attempt by Republicans to restore the minimal protections that have long existed are portrayed not only by Democrats but by the entire non-Fox Media as "anti-democratic." Maybe they are. They are an attempt to avoid having our elections decided by the 38%-ers and illegals...who should not be voting in the first place.
 
"We" are currently engaged in a battle that focuses on the nature of "democracy," where neither side is willing to be honest about what is at stake, what their objectives are, and how they hope to achieve them.

The fundamental un-asked question is, what is the good of Democracy?

Democracy has been accurately described as organized mob rule. The Founders of the United States understood the real dangers of "democracy" because in the Constitution there is not a single significant matter (for the Federal Government) that is decided by popular vote. All major decisions, and all major policy choices are made by the Peoples' elected representatives, but the Founders would have been horrified at the thought of things like passage of legislation or a declaration of war being decided by a vote of The People.

The People, acting collectively, are often idiots.

But today's Democrats have, without saying it aloud, proposed a philosophical extension of "democracy."

Up until now, it was understood and accepted that NOT EVERY CITIZEN SHOULD BE VOTING. There are people who are ignorant, uninvolved, stupid, incompetent, illiterate, lazy, or distracted who basically have never voted in their lives, despite having the "right" to do so. Less than 62% of the eligible, voting age population voted in 2012 and 2016. That means that approximately 38% were in the categories highlighted above.

Without actually saying so, previous generations set up requirements for voters that sought to weed out these people. You had to register in advance to vote, and keep your voter registration up to date when you move, had a name change, etc. You had to come to the polls on Election Day and identify yourself, then sign a ballot, with the signature cross-matched with the signature on file from your original registration. In some states ,they had "Literacy Tests," which recently came into disfavor because they were being used to screen out Blacks and other undesirables, but note well that the Supreme Court NEVER SAID that literacy tests for voters were unconstitutional...only that they were impermissible when used for a nefarious purpose. So again, these very modest requirements were established to weed out the "38%" highlighted above who ought not to be voting.

But today's Democrats are seeking out the votes of these 38%-ers with reckless abandon, because they (the Democrats) know that these people are easily influenced by the "bright shiny objects" that they are offering - "free" college, "free" medical care, subsidized housing, reparations for slavery, $15 minimum wage, and so on. And indeed these are nothing but "bright shiny objects" because they will probably never come to be, at least in the form that they are promised.

In short, the Democrats are campaigning for the votes of people who should not be voting. They propose that the 38%-ers should not have to register in advance, that they should not need to get a photo-ID card, that they should not have their signatures checked when voting, and that they need not come to the polls on Election Day. Each and every one of these initiatives is an attempt to secure more votes from the 38%-ers.

And in the face of this, the Republicans are seeking to avoid having THIER votes watered down by not only the 38%-ers. but also millions and millions of people illegally in the country, whom Mr. Biden openly campaigns to supply with Voter ID cards!

As we all now see, any attempt by Republicans to restore the minimal protections that have long existed are portrayed not only by Democrats but by the entire non-Fox Media as "anti-democratic." Maybe they are. They are an attempt to avoid having our elections decided by the 38%-ers and illegals...who should not be voting in the first place.
Democracy is good for writing fake ballots. Fake ballots are still being dug up in ancient Athens, the birthplace of Democracy.
 
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what’s for supper
 
When everybody is voting people who represent them, that's not "democracy".

Democracy is when a majority decides over every question, not when representatives or elected leaders do.

When there are representatives and elected leaders, it's a republic, or a "representative democracy". The difference being that it's not the people who makes the decisions, the people just picks the few people who do.

As far as I can see, all relevant sides support a republic. The only difference is what exactly the voting rights are supposed to look like.
 
In fact, the ancient Greeks made a difference between monarchy/tyranny (just one person rules), oligarchy (few rule) and democracy (all rule).

Enlightened and liberal thinkers then took the idea of a republic, where all of these three modes are combined: Just one person rules (an elected President/government leader), few rule (a parliament) and all rule (free elections). Each of these elements of a constitutional state check and balance each other, by mutually controlling and electing each other.

Pinnacle is that none of the constitutional offices/organs is above the basic rights determined in the constitution. That means even a majority cannot violate these rights. That's why even a republic with universal, free elections that include every citizen is not a "democracy".
 
The question is, do proponents of "democracy" have a moral right (or obligation) to see that the vote is limited to those who are arguably,
  • Literate (in ENGLISH),
  • Informed,
  • Competent,
  • Sane?
Today's Left rejects that concept. It demands that the votes of EVERYONE be sought out and counted...people who are too distracted to register at the appropriate time, people who are too lazy to obtain a FREE government picture ID, people who are too preoccupied to get to the polls on Election Day. THESE are the people who elected Joe Biden.

This is the fundamental question that no one is addressing: Are there people who, for the good of the country, should not be voting? And I don't care how anyone votes, as long as they are competent and reasonably well informed. But not everyone qualifies, logically or rationally speaking.
 
The guy living under a highway overpass has the same right to vote as the CEO

Both will vote in their own interest
 
I disagree. I often vote for candidates whose policies will not benefit me, or will actually cost me money.

It is the Democrats' fervent hope and belief that if they put enough goodies on the table, then EVERYONE will vote for them. Because THEY are that shallow.
 
I disagree. I often vote for candidates whose policies will not benefit me, or will actually cost me money.

It is the Democrats' fervent hope and belief that if they put enough goodies on the table, then EVERYONE will vote for them. Because THEY are that shallow.

Are Republican tax cuts an attempt to secure votes?
 
"We" are currently engaged in a battle that focuses on the nature of "democracy," where neither side is willing to be honest about what is at stake, what their objectives are, and how they hope to achieve them.

The fundamental un-asked question is, what is the good of Democracy?

Democracy has been accurately described as organized mob rule. The Founders of the United States understood the real dangers of "democracy" because in the Constitution there is not a single significant matter (for the Federal Government) that is decided by popular vote. All major decisions, and all major policy choices are made by the Peoples' elected representatives, but the Founders would have been horrified at the thought of things like passage of legislation or a declaration of war being decided by a vote of The People.

The People, acting collectively, are often idiots.

But today's Democrats have, without saying it aloud, proposed a philosophical extension of "democracy."

Up until now, it was understood and accepted that NOT EVERY CITIZEN SHOULD BE VOTING. There are people who are ignorant, uninvolved, stupid, incompetent, illiterate, lazy, or distracted who basically have never voted in their lives, despite having the "right" to do so. Less than 62% of the eligible, voting age population voted in 2012 and 2016. That means that approximately 38% were in the categories highlighted above.

Without actually saying so, previous generations set up requirements for voters that sought to weed out these people. You had to register in advance to vote, and keep your voter registration up to date when you move, had a name change, etc. You had to come to the polls on Election Day and identify yourself, then sign a ballot, with the signature cross-matched with the signature on file from your original registration. In some states ,they had "Literacy Tests," which recently came into disfavor because they were being used to screen out Blacks and other undesirables, but note well that the Supreme Court NEVER SAID that literacy tests for voters were unconstitutional...only that they were impermissible when used for a nefarious purpose. So again, these very modest requirements were established to weed out the "38%" highlighted above who ought not to be voting.

But today's Democrats are seeking out the votes of these 38%-ers with reckless abandon, because they (the Democrats) know that these people are easily influenced by the "bright shiny objects" that they are offering - "free" college, "free" medical care, subsidized housing, reparations for slavery, $15 minimum wage, and so on. And indeed these are nothing but "bright shiny objects" because they will probably never come to be, at least in the form that they are promised.

In short, the Democrats are campaigning for the votes of people who should not be voting. They propose that the 38%-ers should not have to register in advance, that they should not need to get a photo-ID card, that they should not have their signatures checked when voting, and that they need not come to the polls on Election Day. Each and every one of these initiatives is an attempt to secure more votes from the 38%-ers.

And in the face of this, the Republicans are seeking to avoid having THIER votes watered down by not only the 38%-ers. but also millions and millions of people illegally in the country, whom Mr. Biden openly campaigns to supply with Voter ID cards!

As we all now see, any attempt by Republicans to restore the minimal protections that have long existed are portrayed not only by Democrats but by the entire non-Fox Media as "anti-democratic." Maybe they are. They are an attempt to avoid having our elections decided by the 38%-ers and illegals...who should not be voting in the first place.
Two aspirin, a tall glass of water, and sleep it off as much as possible. In the morning drag your ass to IHOP and get the moons over my hammy. You might be back to normal in two or three days.
 
If the OP had been cogent enough to read federalist number 10, he would not have needed to start this monumentally stupid thread.
 

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