What if Israel Annexes the West Bank and Lets Palestinians Vote

[Mindful]

It's pure STUPID to let West Bank thugs vote in Israeli elections.

I agree, dismantle the illegal settlements and send them back to Israel where they should be living and let the Palestinians have their rights and self determination

They already decided; Jordan, the Palestinian state, relinquished any claims on the West Bank; it is now open for Jewish settlements with Palestinian consent. the squatters just need to go back to Syria, Egypt, and the other Arab states they came from. Just because Arab racists illegally denied Jews to settle anywhere in the Mandate doesn't mean their settlements are illegitimate, they are in fact completely legal an long overdue. It's clear the illegal squatters Jordan left behind have no interest in developing the land anyway, they just continue to rely on extortion and murder for hire as their primary source of income.

Jordan doesn't decide for the Palestinians what or how their state should be constructed anymore than they should your own state.

Your denial of the people of Palestine, in true Joan Peters style, is acknowledged and rejected. Your own racism against Arabs is noted and rejected too

Your 'Stuck In The Fifties' commie propaganda has already been noted and laughed out of the room. Your 'talking points' are now just a standard joke among anyone who is even moderately informed. Of course Jordan speaks for Palestinians, it is the two state solution. The fact they got themselves expelled from Jordan doesn't make them Israel's responsibility, no matter what Kruschev and Brezshnev decided for you way back when.

Jordan got most of the Mandate.

80% Palestinian? Or was.

 

[Picaro]

It's pure STUPID to let West Bank thugs vote in Israeli elections.

I agree, dismantle the illegal settlements and send them back to Israel where they should be living and let the Palestinians have their rights and self determination

They already decided; Jordan, the Palestinian state, relinquished any claims on the West Bank; it is now open for Jewish settlements with Palestinian consent. the squatters just need to go back to Syria, Egypt, and the other Arab states they came from. Just because Arab racists illegally denied Jews to settle anywhere in the Mandate doesn't mean their settlements are illegitimate, they are in fact completely legal an long overdue. It's clear the illegal squatters Jordan left behind have no interest in developing the land anyway, they just continue to rely on extortion and murder for hire as their primary source of income.

Jordan doesn't decide for the Palestinians what or how their state should be constructed anymore than they should your own state.

Your denial of the people of Palestine, in true Joan Peters style, is acknowledged and rejected. Your own racism against Arabs is noted and rejected too

lol What state?

The provisional Palestinian state that is recognized by vastly more people than the Israeli annexation attempts of East Jerusalem and the Golan , the current pantomime US president and his lackies aside

lol being 'recognized' by a UN packed with a majority of assorted criminal syndicates, crime families, and Muslim terrorist regimes doesn't impress anybody. The UN actually put Qaddaffy Duck's Libya in charge of its 'Human Rights', and worse. lol

 

[Picaro]

It's pure STUPID to let West Bank thugs vote in Israeli elections.

I agree, dismantle the illegal settlements and send them back to Israel where they should be living and let the Palestinians have their rights and self determination

They already decided; Jordan, the Palestinian state, relinquished any claims on the West Bank; it is now open for Jewish settlements with Palestinian consent. the squatters just need to go back to Syria, Egypt, and the other Arab states they came from. Just because Arab racists illegally denied Jews to settle anywhere in the Mandate doesn't mean their settlements are illegitimate, they are in fact completely legal an long overdue. It's clear the illegal squatters Jordan left behind have no interest in developing the land anyway, they just continue to rely on extortion and murder for hire as their primary source of income.

Jordan doesn't decide for the Palestinians what or how their state should be constructed anymore than they should your own state.

Your denial of the people of Palestine, in true Joan Peters style, is acknowledged and rejected. Your own racism against Arabs is noted and rejected too

Your 'Stuck In The Fifties' commie propaganda has already been noted and laughed out of the room. Your 'talking points' are now just a standard joke among anyone who is even moderately informed. Of course Jordan speaks for Palestinians, it is the two state solution. The fact they got themselves expelled from Jordan doesn't make them Israel's responsibility, no matter what Kruschev and Brezshnev decided for you way back when.

Jordan got most of the Mandate.

80% Palestinian? Or was.

Yes. About 85% or so; they then promptly barred Jews from owning land, something the terrorist fans pretend never happened, nor the 700,000 or so Jews deported and driven out of ME countries when the Israelis embarrassed the Arab mobs who invaded in 1947 by defeating the poor hapless mass murderers and plunderers posing as 'armies'. Kind of ruined their whole 'We're mighty ancient warrior N Stuff' when they can't even perform as well as their bandit ancestors did with far worse odds. Like I said earlier, their entire 'culture' depends on extortion and mass murder now, with Europe and the oil states feeding them as long as they operate terrorist operations against Israel. The whole idea of even talking to those animals as if they're 'legitimate' is absurd. They aren't a real 'people', they're gangsters.

 

[Mindful]

I agree, dismantle the illegal settlements and send them back to Israel where they should be living and let the Palestinians have their rights and self determination

They already decided; Jordan, the Palestinian state, relinquished any claims on the West Bank; it is now open for Jewish settlements with Palestinian consent. the squatters just need to go back to Syria, Egypt, and the other Arab states they came from. Just because Arab racists illegally denied Jews to settle anywhere in the Mandate doesn't mean their settlements are illegitimate, they are in fact completely legal an long overdue. It's clear the illegal squatters Jordan left behind have no interest in developing the land anyway, they just continue to rely on extortion and murder for hire as their primary source of income.

Jordan doesn't decide for the Palestinians what or how their state should be constructed anymore than they should your own state.

Your denial of the people of Palestine, in true Joan Peters style, is acknowledged and rejected. Your own racism against Arabs is noted and rejected too

lol What state?

The provisional Palestinian state that is recognized by vastly more people than the Israeli annexation attempts of East Jerusalem and the Golan , the current pantomime US president and his lackies aside

lol being 'recognized' by a UN packed with a majority of assorted criminal syndicates, crime families, and Muslim terrorist regimes doesn't impress anybody. The UN actually put Qaddaffy Duck's Libya in charge of its 'Human Rights', and worse. lol

Yeah. Remember Rwanda?

A defining moment for me.

 

[Mindful]

I agree, dismantle the illegal settlements and send them back to Israel where they should be living and let the Palestinians have their rights and self determination

They already decided; Jordan, the Palestinian state, relinquished any claims on the West Bank; it is now open for Jewish settlements with Palestinian consent. the squatters just need to go back to Syria, Egypt, and the other Arab states they came from. Just because Arab racists illegally denied Jews to settle anywhere in the Mandate doesn't mean their settlements are illegitimate, they are in fact completely legal an long overdue. It's clear the illegal squatters Jordan left behind have no interest in developing the land anyway, they just continue to rely on extortion and murder for hire as their primary source of income.

Jordan doesn't decide for the Palestinians what or how their state should be constructed anymore than they should your own state.

Your denial of the people of Palestine, in true Joan Peters style, is acknowledged and rejected. Your own racism against Arabs is noted and rejected too

Your 'Stuck In The Fifties' commie propaganda has already been noted and laughed out of the room. Your 'talking points' are now just a standard joke among anyone who is even moderately informed. Of course Jordan speaks for Palestinians, it is the two state solution. The fact they got themselves expelled from Jordan doesn't make them Israel's responsibility, no matter what Kruschev and Brezshnev decided for you way back when.

Jordan got most of the Mandate.

80% Palestinian? Or was.

Yes. About 85% or so; they then promptly barred Jews from owning land, something the terrorist fans pretend never happened, nor the 700,000 or so Jews deported and driven out of ME countries when the Israelis embarrassed the Arab mobs who invaded in 1947 by defeating the poor hapless mass murderers and plunderers posing as 'armies'. Kind of ruined their whole 'We're mighty ancient warrior N Stuff' when they can't even perform as well as their bandit ancestors did with far worse odds. Like I said earlier, their entire 'culture' depends on extortion and mass murder now, with Europe and the oil states feeding them as long as they operate terrorist operations against Israel. The whole idea of even talking to those animals as if they're 'legitimate' is absurd. They aren't a real 'people', they're gangsters.

The Arabs got 75% of the territory. How much more do they want?

 

[Spartacactcus]

It appears there is nothing to you but bullshit, and dull witted bullshit to boot. You argued that because Israelis aspired to more land they were never serious about peace, and were always scheming to get more land and never give any up, essentially saying you just can't trust a Jew.

Ad hominems acknowledged and laughed at

I argued that at every turn where we see land offered to the Zionist leadership prior to the creation of the state the Jewish leadership publicly accept it but in private saw them as stepping stones to the full control and possible sovereignty of the entire area of the Mandate post Jordan seperation.

That is just a view supported by the historical record. We have all of the documents that support it, them having been released since. It has nothing to do with a slur on Jews , it's just an accurate view of the history that very few people who comment on this subject are even aware of. If you think you are going to distract me from discussion with veiled ( or not so veiled ) accusations of antisemitism you are going to be disappointed , I've been at this game a long time and refuse to let phoney accusations or the resort to emotional misrepresentations silence me , ain't happening

 

[Coyote]

;';lp

All of the "settlements" ARE in Israel. The Palestinians can have self-determination when they accept peace, recognize Israel, yes, as the state for the Jewish people, put down their weapons, and just develop their state.

They can start by accepting one of the peace visions on offer. What the hell are they holding out for?

The settlements are in Occupied Palestinian Territory and thus illegal as per the ICJ opinion on them

Imo they are " holding out " for a genuine self determination and resisting a deal that would lock in forever with everyone whistling and looking the other way , most of the worst aspects of life under occupation in a "state" that is really a state lite and by some distance a state lite

There is no such thing as "Palestinian territory", occupied or not. The "settlements" are in territory under full Israeli sovereignty whose final status will not be determined until a Peace Treaty is signed between Israel and a future State of Palestine. And you have consistently ignored this.

"Genuine self-determination" is a vague and foolish sound byte with no objective definition. (Perfect for rejecting anything and everything as an excuse to continue to be belligerent). Be specific. What do the Arab Palestinians NEED for "genuine self-determination"?

A recognized state? Check. Continguity? Check. Direct access between WB and Gaza? Check. Direct access to Jordan and Egypt? Check. Ports? Check. Access to holy places? Check. Choice of citizenship and remaining where they live? Check. Economic prosperity? Check. Better medical care, better education, better access to water, a new university, an airport, a history museum, free trade, improved technology, better life expectancy, lower infant mortality rate, release of their prisoners? Check. And check. And freaking check.

What are they NOT getting with a peace deal like this?

Any say in the process.

They keep refusing a seat at the table. I think part of the point of this Vision is to point out, “Look Israel is going to take what she needs for security and the safety of her citizens so you can either get ALL sorts of goodies or you can keep walking away from it all, which is it going to be?”

Both sides were demanding pre-conditions. Trump unilaterally screwed the Palestinians: with Jerusalem, closing their consulate, cutting all aid. They were also excluded from the negotiation process.

We have always said it needs to be settled with both sides. Now suddenly, no?

Should we treat the Ukraine Russia conflict in this manner? Just pointing it because normally both sides are in on the deal.

What if we set up a deal excluding Israel, and unilaterally cut all funding to her and closed her embassy?

That said, there are some good possibilities in this idea depending what economic opportunities can be developed AND what happens to the people both Jewish and Pali on the wrong sides? Palestine is completely surrounded by Israel, which would keep it vulnerable to Israel who could shut of trade or water for any reason.

The devil will be in the details.

 

[Coyote]

Also, this is not an actual Peace Treaty. It’s just a Potential plan. The Palestinians have plenty of time to make counter-offers.

What do they need to make it work for them?

True! We will need to see.

Also will Israel’s people accept it?

 

[Spartacactcus]

The fact is that in every negotiation, with Arab nations or with the so called Palestinians, Israel has offered to give up land for peace, and have followed through in good faith when It found a credible partner for peace.
Egypt
Sadat was a better politician than he was a general, and when he did attack in 1973, he was soundly defeated. Israel broke through the anti aircraft barrier the Russians had constructed for Egypt, captured 500 Soviet tanks and tons of ammunition and Israeli tanks were rolling toward Alexandria and Cairo and were only stopped by pressure from the US. The few Egyptian troops left in Sinai could have been destroyed at any time, but under pressure from the US Israel allowed them to remain while occupying significant Egyptian territory across the Canal in order to leave the door open for peace talks. Was Sinai sovereign Egyptian territory? In modern times Sinai was not a part of Egypt until the British attached it their Egyptian colony in 1906 to better secure the Canal. That being the case, it is not at all clear that Egypt had a better right to it than Israel. Nevertheless, Israel was always serious about peace and security and gave up Sinai despite all the pain it caused to secure peace.

Jordan

Before 1948, Jordan was known as Trans Jordan, meaning across the Jordan River, and held no land west of the river, however, in a war of aggression in 1948 Jordan captured Judea and Samaria and held it from 1948 to 1967 despite having no legal right to it. Only Pakistan and the UK recognized Jordan's right to the land, so Jordan had no legitimate claim on the land when negotiating peace with Israel, but again, Israel was so determined to make peace with the Arabs that it agreed to allow Jordan to keep title to some of the land adjacent to the river that it had developed during its illegal occupation of the land. That's how serious Israel was about making peace.

Oslo

While it is true that both Israelis and Palestinians supported Oslo at first, at the end, when Barak offered all of Gaza, 93% of Judea and Samaria, PA jurisdiction over Arab neighborhoods in Jerusalem and Arafat said, no, Israelis still supported the peace process, but the Palestinians turned to violence and launched the second intifada, and it was the intifada that convinced Israelis that it as impossible to negotiate peace with people who turned to violence whenever they don't get everything they want. Israel was very serious about peace with the Palestinians and was willing to make great sacrifices to secure it, but the Palestinians were clearly not serious about peace since they were unwilling to make any compromises to secure it.

Gaza

Sharon gave Gaza to the PA with the understanding that Abbas would maintain peace there, but despite the PA forces outnumbering Hamas and the other terrorists, the PA quickly lost Gaza to Hamas and there was no peace. This was the final nail in the coffin of a negotiated peace between Israel and the Palestinians since it showed that there was no political entity among the Palestinians that could credibly offer peace to Israel.

Chest thumping about how the Israelis defeated the Egyptians in 1973 acknowledged but it didn't alter the fact that Israel " gave back " only sovereign Egyptian territory , like I said.

Same with Jordan. Like I said

Oslo never even offered the Palestinians an end to illegal Israeli settlement building , that's how " serious " it was. It saw the PA being subcontracted in to assist in the subjugation of their own people. I could offer you 80% of Algeria and it would be entirely desert. Percentages should be viewed in terms of value . The percentage Israel allowed istelf to keep was virtually all of the illegal settlement/settlers and control over the water supply.

If Gaza was "given" to the Palestinians you would think that that would mean they could vote into power any one of their political parties ? I mean without the Israelis , US UK etc etc instigating an attempted coup ? That alone is indicative that Gaza was never " given " to the Palestnians
Could control their airspace , economy , borders , coast etc etc

The Gaza disengagement was a pragmatic decision to remove the illegal settlers from there and release the thousands of IDF troops guarding them and move them to illegal settlements in the WB and Golan and, if we are to believe the likes of Dov Weisglass , to " freeze " the peace process

Either way nothing of what you wrote above undermines what it is attempting to do

 

[toomuchtime_]

It appears there is nothing to you but bullshit, and dull witted bullshit to boot. You argued that because Israelis aspired to more land they were never serious about peace, and were always scheming to get more land and never give any up, essentially saying you just can't trust a Jew.

Ad hominems acknowledged and laughed at

I argued that at every turn where we see land offered to the Zionist leadership prior to the creation of the state the Jewish leadership publicly accept it but in private saw them as stepping stones to the full control and possible sovereignty of the entire area of the Mandate post Jordan seperation.

That is just a view supported by the historical record. We have all of the documents that support it, them having been released since. It has nothing to do with a slur on Jews , it's just an accurate view of the history that very few people who comment on this subject are even aware of. If you think you are going to distract me from discussion with veiled ( or not so veiled ) accusations of antisemitism you are going to be disappointed , I've been at this game a long time and refuse to let phoney accusations or the resort to emotional misrepresentations silence me , ain't happening

Again, you are full of shit. There is no documentation that shows israelis were not entirely sincere in every agreement they signed on to and every offer of land they made. Your argument is, you just can't trust a Jew.

 

[Mindful]

It appears there is nothing to you but bullshit, and dull witted bullshit to boot. You argued that because Israelis aspired to more land they were never serious about peace, and were always scheming to get more land and never give any up, essentially saying you just can't trust a Jew.

Ad hominems acknowledged and laughed at

I argued that at every turn where we see land offered to the Zionist leadership prior to the creation of the state the Jewish leadership publicly accept it but in private saw them as stepping stones to the full control and possible sovereignty of the entire area of the Mandate post Jordan seperation.

That is just a view supported by the historical record. We have all of the documents that support it, them having been released since. It has nothing to do with a slur on Jews , it's just an accurate view of the history that very few people who comment on this subject are even aware of. If you think you are going to distract me from discussion with veiled ( or not so veiled ) accusations of antisemitism you are going to be disappointed , I've been at this game a long time and refuse to let phoney accusations or the resort to emotional misrepresentations silence me , ain't happening

Again, you are full of shit. There is no documentation that shows israelis were not entirely sincere in every agreement they signed on to and every offer of land they made. Your argument is, you just can't trust a Jew.

That's the bottom line. At the root of it. Has been, since time immemorial:

The Jew.

 

[Spartacactcus]

Again, you are full of shit. There is no documentation that shows israelis were not entirely sincere in every agreement they signed on to and every offer of land they made. Your argument is, you just can't trust a Jew.

Ben Gurion in reaction to the Zionist leaderships acceptance of the Peel Commisions plan to partition

"Does the establishment of a Jewish state [in only part of Palestine] advance or retard the conversion of this country into a Jewish country? My assumption (which is why I am a fervent proponent of a state, even though it is now linked to partition) is that a Jewish state on only part of the land is not the end but the beginning.... This is because this increase in possession is of consequence not only in itself, but because through it we increase our strength, and every increase in strength helps in the possession of the land as a whole. The establishment of a state, even if only on a portion of the land, is the maximal reinforcement of our strength at the present time and a powerful boost to our historical endeavors to liberate the entire country"

1937 Ben-Gurion letter - Wikipedia

There are others that anyone can access if they have the will

 

[Indeependent]

These are no more legally binding than the UN Declaration of Human Rights which IRONICALLY has a "rights kill switch" embedded in it for the benefit of those many DICTATORSHIPS that SIT in the UNGA or UNSC.... Besides, many of those resolutions applied to JORDAN as well in that Israel had to negotiate with Jordan (and Egypt) for land acquired from the 1967 war..

UNSC resolutions are legally binding and if it were not for the US veto standing in the way of the international consensus there would most likely have been a resolution of the conflict already.

I have stated that there are definitely frustrating weaknesses/contradictions with the UN , namely the UNSC veto power of the big 5, which are incidentally most of the biggest arms dealer nations around, how's that for a conflict of interests ? But support for international laws that are there to aim to keep the peace should be supported by all decent people of the world imo

The UN Charter doesn't start off with " we the governments of the world " , it starts off with " we the peoples of the world " and we , each of us in our own nations , need to stop our governments from flouting international laws and conventions.

Progress is slow with obvious periods of regression but people need to stick with it imo

Resolutions are “Binding”?
An opinion is Binding?!
Really?

 

[Spartacactcus]

That's the bottom line. At the root of it. Has been, since time immemorial:

The Jew.

It's only the " bottom line " for those who are struggling with the argument imo

For sure there will be those who are anti Israel because they are Jew haters and there will be those that are pro Israel because they are Arab or Muslim haters.

To use it as a blanket smear of those that disagree with you and can argue their points is disingenuous but to be expected for the reason given in the first sentence

 

[Spartacactcus]

These are no more legally binding than the UN Declaration of Human Rights which IRONICALLY has a "rights kill switch" embedded in it for the benefit of those many DICTATORSHIPS that SIT in the UNGA or UNSC.... Besides, many of those resolutions applied to JORDAN as well in that Israel had to negotiate with Jordan (and Egypt) for land acquired from the 1967 war..

UNSC resolutions are legally binding and if it were not for the US veto standing in the way of the international consensus there would most likely have been a resolution of the conflict already.

I have stated that there are definitely frustrating weaknesses/contradictions with the UN , namely the UNSC veto power of the big 5, which are incidentally most of the biggest arms dealer nations around, how's that for a conflict of interests ? But support for international laws that are there to aim to keep the peace should be supported by all decent people of the world imo

The UN Charter doesn't start off with " we the governments of the world " , it starts off with " we the peoples of the world " and we , each of us in our own nations , need to stop our governments from flouting international laws and conventions.

Progress is slow with obvious periods of regression but people need to stick with it imo

Resolutions are “Binding”?
An opinion is Binding?!
Really?

UNSC resolutions are legally binding. The opinion was given by experts in international law with access to all of the relevant treaties/conventions/charters etc etc

Really

 

[Spartacactcus]

The devil will be in the details.

Absoutely , it always is and that's why people should be suspicious of those that want an instant decision

 

[ForeverYoung436]

They already decided; Jordan, the Palestinian state, relinquished any claims on the West Bank; it is now open for Jewish settlements with Palestinian consent. the squatters just need to go back to Syria, Egypt, and the other Arab states they came from. Just because Arab racists illegally denied Jews to settle anywhere in the Mandate doesn't mean their settlements are illegitimate, they are in fact completely legal an long overdue. It's clear the illegal squatters Jordan left behind have no interest in developing the land anyway, they just continue to rely on extortion and murder for hire as their primary source of income.

Jordan doesn't decide for the Palestinians what or how their state should be constructed anymore than they should your own state.

Your denial of the people of Palestine, in true Joan Peters style, is acknowledged and rejected. Your own racism against Arabs is noted and rejected too

Your 'Stuck In The Fifties' commie propaganda has already been noted and laughed out of the room. Your 'talking points' are now just a standard joke among anyone who is even moderately informed. Of course Jordan speaks for Palestinians, it is the two state solution. The fact they got themselves expelled from Jordan doesn't make them Israel's responsibility, no matter what Kruschev and Brezshnev decided for you way back when.

Jordan got most of the Mandate.

80% Palestinian? Or was.

Yes. About 85% or so; they then promptly barred Jews from owning land, something the terrorist fans pretend never happened, nor the 700,000 or so Jews deported and driven out of ME countries when the Israelis embarrassed the Arab mobs who invaded in 1947 by defeating the poor hapless mass murderers and plunderers posing as 'armies'. Kind of ruined their whole 'We're mighty ancient warrior N Stuff' when they can't even perform as well as their bandit ancestors did with far worse odds. Like I said earlier, their entire 'culture' depends on extortion and mass murder now, with Europe and the oil states feeding them as long as they operate terrorist operations against Israel. The whole idea of even talking to those animals as if they're 'legitimate' is absurd. They aren't a real 'people', they're gangsters.

The Arabs got 75% of the territory. How much more do they want?

78%, to be exact.

 

[Mindful]

That's the bottom line. At the root of it. Has been, since time immemorial:

The Jew.

It's only the " bottom line " for those who are struggling with the argument imo

For sure there will be those who are anti Israel because they are Jew haters and there will be those that are pro Israel because they are Arab or Muslim haters.

To use it as a blanket smear of those that disagree with you and can argue their points is disingenuous but to be expected for the reason given in the first sentence

Thanks for nothing.


Irrelevant.

 

[Spartacactcus]

lol being 'recognized' by a UN packed with a majority of assorted criminal syndicates, crime families, and Muslim terrorist regimes doesn't impress anybody. The UN actually put Qaddaffy Duck's Libya in charge of its 'Human Rights', and worse. lol

It's not meant to impress you , it's just a fact . And if you think that " Muslim terrorist regimes " are a " majority " you could maybe do with some extra study in maths


Maybe they should have put the USA leadership in charge of the HR Council and turn a blind eye to Guantanimo Bay and those it sent to Assads regime to be tortured to name just two of many............people in glass houses and all

 

[OldLady]

Why not?

A two state solution, as originally envisioned, is in a zombie state of perpetual propping up by diplomats. It's support has drastically waned among both Palestinians and Israelis.

With a one state solution (Israel + West Bank) - assuming a scenario where ALL residents are offered the opportunity of citizenship up front, the plus side for Palestinians would be the potential of better representation, political stability, assumption of rights guaranteed by citizenship and funding for infrastructure, education, etc. that is in perpetual shortage with their Palestinian leadership.


Here's what happens if Israel annexes the West Bank and lets Palestinians vote

I read an article awhile back that said there are more Palestinians in Israel than Israeli's, and therefore, Israel would cease to exist if Palestinians were allowed to vote.