What if Israel Annexes the West Bank and Lets Palestinians Vote

[Mindful]

The thing is, according to Israel's basic law, second class citizenship it's going to be.

A two-state solution is increasingly unlikely because of Israeli settlements on occupied territory, and the ramped up demolition of Palestinian homes and infrastructure to make more room for more Israeli settlements.

These two comments are simply false.

There is nothing in Israel's laws which make Arabs "second class citizens". Nor does Israel ever demolish Arab Palestinian homes or infrastructure and replace them with Jewish Israeli homes.

There is PLENTY to criticize Israel for. Why do people continue to post blatant lies? Oh. It would be because if they told the truth about Israel, it would be obvious that Israel, for all its faults, is actually one of the better States in the world as far as how it treats its citizens.

Israelis shouldn't even have to justify or defend their reasons to exist. I wonder why Gentiles assume the right to discuss what's right or wrong for someone else's country.

 

[Mindful]

Yes it would....maybe semi-autonomy for some areas within an Israeli nation?

Actually fairly COMPLETE autonomy for the City Centers (or states).. Their own laws, own security, own zoning, own taxation, own determination of who speaks for them... This OF COURSE means that have to also have to establish TRADE and routes of commerce and freedom to buy and selll with ANYONE -- not just Israel.. That's why my "Palestine Trade Route" paper INCLUDES these cities at the center of a MAJOR regional transit system..

And there CAN BE a "federation" of all these City Centers (states) that cooperate on regional planning and negotiating with Israel on trade regulations and such...

A lot of Palestinians are agrarian, farmers....how would they fit in to this model?

Farmers are pretty flexible.. They need access to trade routes, water, power and NOT A LOT of "regulation"
or govt.. And if Israel recognizes their property claims and gives them access to the Israeli legal system for disputes, farmers would be just peachy.. More complicated companies and businesses would have more issues being bound by Israeli policies..

I think the main areas along the upper Jordan border would too important to defending BOTH Israel and the "Pali Federation" to NOT annex..But that would not strip out that much of the fertile ground..

One irony was when the Gazan rocket launchers actually hit the power station that was providing them with the everyday means to survive.

 

[flacaltenn]

So - I"m simplifying it. Those city-states would be semi-autonomous within greater Israel. Citizens would elect their leaders who would then appoint their representatives to the Knesset? Each city state would have a representative with full rights in the Knesset?

I have to refrain from getting too specific to give THEM the latitude to decide the details.. But either the City Centers get recognized in the Knesset by appointments from City leaders or they get recognized by a POTENTIAL "federation of Palestiine" If they chose to have a "loose federated govt" to share, then THAT BODY would be their voice to the rest of world and COULD BE recognized internationally and independent of Israeli control.....

Remember the model here.. That 80 to 90% of Palestinians covered by the City State govts are NOT Israeli citizens.. They are autonomous and locally governed.. So representation to the Israel Knesset is more of diplomacy and negotiations team than ACTUAL sitting members.. But MAYBE -- they get to weigh in on a lot of aspects of Israeli policy and politics..

 

[flacaltenn]

At SOME point, it's going to have to decide how to solve the Palestinian issue in a way that reflects the values it enshrines.

Israel is not responsible for solving the "Palestinian issue".

Yes. They are. Along with the Palestinians. Because it's not a "Palestinian issue". It's a Palestinian/Israeli issue.

Hmmmmmm. I disagree. (Where's the fun in agreeing, right?)

Israel absolutely can not solve any issue which is the responsibility of Palestine. There are two key things which Israel can not do:

1. Compel Arab Palestinian self-determination.
2. End Arab Palestinian Muslim extremism.

All Israel can do is protect its people best it can and wait those things out. Which leaves us with the status quo, right?

Disagree....because some of the problems are coming from Israel's own policies which are causing the demise of a two-state opportunity.

Israel can't affect the above, but it is provoking the situation through political policies and by that I mean settlements (we won't agree there so lets not get into it )

Israel micromanages Pali commerce for example.. Decides on tariffs, imports, exports, ect.. Very difficult to HAVE the best tradering partners when you're being crushed like that.. It's to Israels AND the Palis benefit to be TIGHTLY coupled in trade.. But it has to be a much fairer deal... WITH OPTIONS to deal with the rest of the world as well...

That's one example "political policy" that Israel COULD improve, but I think they like having a convenient "farmer's market" at cut rate prices.. And in the OTHER DIRECTION, most of those fancy WB Pali homes are paid thru SALARIES earned in Israel by the SKILLED sector of their workforce...

So there's already a "bond" there in terms of trade and dependence....

 

[rylah]

At SOME point, it's going to have to decide how to solve the Palestinian issue in a way that reflects the values it enshrines.

Israel is not responsible for solving the "Palestinian issue".

Yes. They are. Along with the Palestinians. Because it's not a "Palestinian issue". It's a Palestinian/Israeli issue.

You can't expect ISRAEL to dictate a solution.. For the 109th time, there needs to be a responsible RECOGNIZED leadership that speaks for the Palestinians in occupation in the West Bank....

Probably will never happen..., So the next best thing is to LOCALIZE Pali leadership and governance the way it has ALWAYS BEEN before Europeans redrew the Mid East maps..

Then a coalition of those city leaders would be the de facto NEGOTIATORS for settlement. Works just fine. It's just not been properly proposed and analyzed quite yet... Maybe soon it will be...

Currently the Emirate Plan (Dr. Mordechai Kedar) is less likely an option.

There're more Arab clans on the ground preferring full Israeli sovereignty,
rather than speaking of self-government.

Eventually many realize there're 2 options - either they themselves overthrow Hamas and PA with the support of other Arab states, and position themselves as partners in mutual regional development,
or stay an irrelevant obstacle to be tossed the cards accordingly.

 

[flacaltenn]

Yes it would....maybe semi-autonomy for some areas within an Israeli nation?

Actually fairly COMPLETE autonomy for the City Centers (or states).. Their own laws, own security, own zoning, own taxation, own determination of who speaks for them... This OF COURSE means that have to also have to establish TRADE and routes of commerce and freedom to buy and selll with ANYONE -- not just Israel.. That's why my "Palestine Trade Route" paper INCLUDES these cities at the center of a MAJOR regional transit system..

And there CAN BE a "federation" of all these City Centers (states) that cooperate on regional planning and negotiating with Israel on trade regulations and such...

A lot of Palestinians are agrarian, farmers....how would they fit in to this model?

Farmers are pretty flexible.. They need access to trade routes, water, power and NOT A LOT of "regulation"
or govt.. And if Israel recognizes their property claims and gives them access to the Israeli legal system for disputes, farmers would be just peachy.. More complicated companies and businesses would have more issues being bound by Israeli policies..

I think the main areas along the upper Jordan border would too important to defending BOTH Israel and the "Pali Federation" to NOT annex..But that would not strip out that much of the fertile ground..

One irony was when the Gazan rocket launchers actually hit the power station that was providing them with the everyday means to survive.

Here's another irony.. Gaza's utility bills are paid largely thru the remnants of the PAuthority govt from international aid. And the large reason their lights go out often is that the PA stops paying their bills because they ESSENTIALLY LEFT the PA after going to war with them..

Lot of fancy hotels and restaurants going to candlelight in Gaza...

 

[flacaltenn]

Yes it would....maybe semi-autonomy for some areas within an Israeli nation?

Actually fairly COMPLETE autonomy for the City Centers (or states).. Their own laws, own security, own zoning, own taxation, own determination of who speaks for them... This OF COURSE means that have to also have to establish TRADE and routes of commerce and freedom to buy and selll with ANYONE -- not just Israel.. That's why my "Palestine Trade Route" paper INCLUDES these cities at the center of a MAJOR regional transit system..

And there CAN BE a "federation" of all these City Centers (states) that cooperate on regional planning and negotiating with Israel on trade regulations and such...

A lot of Palestinians are agrarian, farmers....how would they fit in to this model?

Farmers are pretty flexible.. They need access to trade routes, water, power and NOT A LOT of "regulation"
or govt.. And if Israel recognizes their property claims and gives them access to the Israeli legal system for disputes, farmers would be just peachy.. More complicated companies and businesses would have more issues being bound by Israeli policies..

I think the main areas along the upper Jordan border would too important to defending BOTH Israel and the "Pali Federation" to NOT annex..But that would not strip out that much of the fertile ground..

One irony was when the Gazan rocket launchers actually hit the power station that was providing them with the everyday means to survive.

Here's another irony.. Gaza's utility bills are paid largely thru the remnants of the PAuthority govt from international aid. And the large reason their lights go out often is that the PA stops paying their bills because they ESSENTIALLY LEFT the PA after going to war with them..

Lot of fancy hotels and restaurants going to candlelight in Gaza...

 

[flacaltenn]

At SOME point, it's going to have to decide how to solve the Palestinian issue in a way that reflects the values it enshrines.

Israel is not responsible for solving the "Palestinian issue".

Yes. They are. Along with the Palestinians. Because it's not a "Palestinian issue". It's a Palestinian/Israeli issue.

You can't expect ISRAEL to dictate a solution.. For the 109th time, there needs to be a responsible RECOGNIZED leadership that speaks for the Palestinians in occupation in the West Bank....

Probably will never happen..., So the next best thing is to LOCALIZE Pali leadership and governance the way it has ALWAYS BEEN before Europeans redrew the Mid East maps..

Then a coalition of those city leaders would be the de facto NEGOTIATORS for settlement. Works just fine. It's just not been properly proposed and analyzed quite yet... Maybe soon it will be...

Currently the Emirate Plan (Dr. Mordechai Kedar) is less likely an option.

There're more Arab clans on the ground preferring full Israeli sovereignty,
rather than speaking of self-government.

Eventually many realize there're 2 options - either they themselves overthrow Hamas and PA with the support of other Arab states, and position themselves as partners in mutual regional development, or stay an irrelevant obstacle to be tossed the cards accordingly.

Their decision is based on 1000s of years of NOT trusting large federations or govts.. The Emirate plan gives them the ability to SELF govern as they wish without defaulting to a MINORITY Israel political coalition.. Don't think that would last long.. In America -- we RESERVED all the other rights to the states to decide to PREVENT "one size fits all" govt edicts...

And I think the friction would be constant in an "absorbed" solution... ALTHOUGH, the relatively HIGH level of living for Palis would CERTAINLY IMPROVE as citizens.. And that may be WHY the "Pali on street" might be enticed to be a citizen of Israel..

Hate to say it but Dr. Kedar plan is EXCELLENT in terms of the MODEL... But it purposely leaves out creating a COMMERCE and TRADE option that is fair to the Palestinians or the NEIGHBORING Arab countries for that matter...

Still convinced with the tighter bonds between Israel and Egypt, Jordan, Saudi, ect -- this NEEDS to be a regional solution with cooperation on MANY things.. Not just getting the Palis hooked up in commerce with the rest of the world...

That's the part I'm pitching... And INTERESTINGLY, Jared Kuschner's (trump admin) plan fell on its face BECAUSE he only focused on "economic development" for the region and NOT SOLVING the governance/representation issues.. Don't think Palis are more interested in 5G Cell service than they are in what FLAG their police on the street are gonna wear..

Maybe getting some Pali City States/Emirates/Regional solution folks together in a room, there might be a more tasty solution....

 

[rylah]

Yes it would....maybe semi-autonomy for some areas within an Israeli nation?

Actually fairly COMPLETE autonomy for the City Centers (or states).. Their own laws, own security, own zoning, own taxation, own determination of who speaks for them... This OF COURSE means that have to also have to establish TRADE and routes of commerce and freedom to buy and selll with ANYONE -- not just Israel.. That's why my "Palestine Trade Route" paper INCLUDES these cities at the center of a MAJOR regional transit system..

And there CAN BE a "federation" of all these City Centers (states) that cooperate on regional planning and negotiating with Israel on trade regulations and such...

A lot of Palestinians are agrarian, farmers....how would they fit in to this model?

Farmers are pretty flexible.. They need access to trade routes, water, power and NOT A LOT of "regulation"
or govt.. And if Israel recognizes their property claims and gives them access to the Israeli legal system for disputes, farmers would be just peachy.. More complicated companies and businesses would have more issues being bound by Israeli policies..

I think the main areas along the upper Jordan border would too important to defending BOTH Israel and the "Pali Federation" to NOT annex..But that would not strip out that much of the fertile ground..

One irony was when the Gazan rocket launchers actually hit the power station that was providing them with the everyday means to survive.

Here's another irony.. Gaza's utility bills are paid largely thru the remnants of the PAuthority govt from international aid. And the large reason their lights go out often is that the PA stops paying their bills because they ESSENTIALLY LEFT the PA after going to war with them..

Lot of fancy hotels and restaurants going to candlelight in Gaza...

Or they just stop paying bills, so Gazans get to say they shoot rockets because they have no electricity, and the PA can keep looking "moderate".

In anyway, nothing one signs will be recognized by the other.
They're both irrelevant.

 

[rylah]

At SOME point, it's going to have to decide how to solve the Palestinian issue in a way that reflects the values it enshrines.

Israel is not responsible for solving the "Palestinian issue".

Yes. They are. Along with the Palestinians. Because it's not a "Palestinian issue". It's a Palestinian/Israeli issue.

You can't expect ISRAEL to dictate a solution.. For the 109th time, there needs to be a responsible RECOGNIZED leadership that speaks for the Palestinians in occupation in the West Bank....

Probably will never happen..., So the next best thing is to LOCALIZE Pali leadership and governance the way it has ALWAYS BEEN before Europeans redrew the Mid East maps..

Then a coalition of those city leaders would be the de facto NEGOTIATORS for settlement. Works just fine. It's just not been properly proposed and analyzed quite yet... Maybe soon it will be...

Currently the Emirate Plan (Dr. Mordechai Kedar) is less likely an option.

There're more Arab clans on the ground preferring full Israeli sovereignty,
rather than speaking of self-government.

Eventually many realize there're 2 options - either they themselves overthrow Hamas and PA with the support of other Arab states, and position themselves as partners in mutual regional development, or stay an irrelevant obstacle to be tossed the cards accordingly.

Their decision is based on 1000s of years of NOT trusting large federations or govts.. The Emirate plan gives them the ability to SELF govern as they wish without defaulting to a MINORITY Israel political coalition.. Don't think that would last long.. In America -- we RESERVED all the other rights to the states to decide to PREVENT "one size fits all" govt edicts...

And I think the friction would be constant in an "absorbed" solution... ALTHOUGH, the relatively HIGH level of living for Palis would CERTAINLY IMPROVE as citizens.. And that may be WHY the "Pali on street" might be enticed to be a citizen of Israel..

Hate to say it but Dr. Kedar plan is EXCELLENT in terms of the MODEL... But it purposely leaves out creating a COMMERCE and TRADE option that is fair to the Palestinians or the NEIGHBORING Arab countries for that matter...

Still convinced with the tighter bonds between Israel and Egypt, Jordan, Saudi, ect -- this NEEDS to be a regional solution with cooperation on MANY things.. Not just getting the Palis hooked up in commerce with the rest of the world...

That's the part I'm pitching... And INTERESTINGLY, Jared Kuschner's (trump admin) plan fell on its face BECAUSE he only focused on "economic development" for the region and NOT SOLVING the governance/representation issues.. Don't think Palis are more interested in 5G Cell service than they are in what FLAG their police on the street are gonna wear..

Maybe getting some Pali City States/Emirates/Regional solution folks together in a room, there might be a more tasty solution....

I don't want to speculate too much about the Trump deal,
in 3 or less days we'll know.

The way You think is more long term, kinda natural stage of development, which can be achieved in the following decade. Not a matter of instant deals, and I don't think that what it's aiming to address in the current geopolitical situation.

But we may be both surprised.

 

[Coyote]

Why should non Jews be required to recognized the God of Israel? Or the Torah? Or religious law?

I think there is a misunderstanding here. I think this type of misunderstanding is common because people tend to see Judaism through Xtian- or Muslim-colored glasses.

When rylah says:

Torah prescribes for all non-Jews who want to live in the land to

• Recognize the G-d of Israel,
• Recognize the Torah of Moses
• Follow the 7 Laws of Noah
• Submit to Israel's sovereignty

1-3 are fulfilled, we're at stage 4.

notice he says that #1, 2 and 3 are ALREADY fulfilled.

This concept is not meant to be understood as a requirement for each individual citizen of Israel, nor a restriction on individual citizens.

Its an understanding that the nations, generally, have accepted monotheism and a very basic set of moral values. Don't take it to mean that all non-Jewish citizens will be required to do anything or that they will discriminated against. It doesn't mean that at all.

Thank you for clarifying. You are right, it is confusing to this secular person

 

[Coyote]

The situation on the ground has changed.

I am morally against it. But if terrorist acts - and I mean ACTS are performed (as defined by life threatening acts against people because of their ethnic identity) then sure - expel THAT person - not the family, not the tribe, not anyone else. Or - put them through the criminal justice system. Actually that might be better.

But it has to be applied equally - that means Jews committing acts of violence against Palestinians should get the same treatment.

What I'm afraid of though is that this will be abused and used as a reason for mass expulsions much the way demoliting the family homes of Palestinians is abused as a group punishment.

How can such abuse be prevented?

So, here's the thing. Such "abuse" can be prevented by Arabs refraining from being hostile and committing acts of terrorism. Full stop.

In a one state solution, Israel will have a significant minority of Arab citizens who are hostile to Israel and to Israel's Jewish citizens. Any hostilities, overt, covert, incitement, actual acts of harm or terrorism are the responsibility of those committing the violations. Full stop.

The question being asked here is not, "How can we prevent Israel from abusing Arabs?" The question is, "In the face of a hostile and violent minority population, how should Israel respond to acts of violence, threats of violence and a culture of violence and hostility?"

Is the answer expulsion? Its a bigger question than just "what to do with individuals who commit acts of terror". Its a question of managing that hostile culture.

Are suggesting that all violence from Israel’s Jewish citizens is simply responding to Arab hostility and therefore they can not be held responsible for their acts? If so, I strongly disagree. There are strong racial overtones in the violence coming out of both sides.

How can we prevent them from abusing each other and creating a state where all can feel ownership in.

Here is a thought. Maybe Israel can sell the Palestinians on the benefits of citizenship. Less corruption, investment, better schools, political accountability, jobs? Maybe they should start actively investing in the Palestinian areas of Area C prior to annexation?

 

[Coyote]

Ger Toshav doesn't mean anything other than a citizen of Israel for all non-religious purposes. Let's not get our panties in a wad here.

(and no it is NOT the same thing as dhimmi)

Read the link, it is informative. What specifically is significantly different? I don’t mean in how it has been applied or abused over the ages but rather in it’s original intent?

I read the link. Its a weak attempt to create equivalence where there is none. There is no hidden meaning behind rylah 's use of the Hebrew term for "citizen" rather than the English term for "citizen". It just means citizen.

I disagree, I think part of the problem here is the term “dhimmi” has become so demonized and toxic it can’t be discussed rationally, in the historical context in which it was developed which is a world not to different than the a ancient Jewish, both worlds dominated religion, where the concept of human rights not very developed, and two societies that created ways to allow a degree of religious freedom within the laws of their own society. It is a topic worth discussing elsewhere.

 

[Shusha]

Why should non Jews be required to recognized the God of Israel? Or the Torah? Or religious law?

I think there is a misunderstanding here. I think this type of misunderstanding is common because people tend to see Judaism through Xtian- or Muslim-colored glasses.

When rylah says:

Torah prescribes for all non-Jews who want to live in the land to

• Recognize the G-d of Israel,
• Recognize the Torah of Moses
• Follow the 7 Laws of Noah
• Submit to Israel's sovereignty

1-3 are fulfilled, we're at stage 4.

notice he says that #1, 2 and 3 are ALREADY fulfilled.

This concept is not meant to be understood as a requirement for each individual citizen of Israel, nor a restriction on individual citizens.

Its an understanding that the nations, generally, have accepted monotheism and a very basic set of moral values. Don't take it to mean that all non-Jewish citizens will be required to do anything or that they will discriminated against. It doesn't mean that at all.

Thank you for clarifying. You are right, it is confusing to this secular person

Yeah, I get that. Its interesting how easy it is for people to miss each other because they are hearing the words in their own native "language" or worldview.

 

[Coyote]

Disagree....because some of the problems are coming from Israel's own policies which are causing the demise of a two-state opportunity.

The only reason the two-state solution is dead is because Arabs refuse to entertain the possibility.

I disagree. It enjoyed strong Palestinian support for some time. The decline in support is primarily due settlements reducing the amount of contiguous from which a state could be formed making it increasingly unlikely to happen.

 

[Coyote]

Yes it would....maybe semi-autonomy for some areas within an Israeli nation?

Actually fairly COMPLETE autonomy for the City Centers (or states).. Their own laws, own security, own zoning, own taxation, own determination of who speaks for them... This OF COURSE means that have to also have to establish TRADE and routes of commerce and freedom to buy and selll with ANYONE -- not just Israel.. That's why my "Palestine Trade Route" paper INCLUDES these cities at the center of a MAJOR regional transit system..

And there CAN BE a "federation" of all these City Centers (states) that cooperate on regional planning and negotiating with Israel on trade regulations and such...

Out of curiosity, how would that look on a map, have you tried mapping it? I admit it is an idea I like.

A lot of Palestinians are agrarian, farmers....how would they fit in to this model?

Farmers are pretty flexible.. They need access to trade routes, water, power and NOT A LOT of "regulation"
or govt.. And if Israel recognizes their property claims and gives them access to the Israeli legal system for disputes, farmers would be just peachy.. More complicated companies and businesses would have more issues being bound by Israeli policies..

So, I am confused here, who’s jurisdiction would these rural people fall under? What citizenship?

I think the main areas along the upper Jordan border would too important to defending BOTH Israel and the "Pali Federation" to NOT annex..But that would not strip out that much of the fertile ground..

Ok, so the people there would simply become Israeli citizens?[/quote][/QUOTE]

 

[cnm]

What if Israel Annexes the West Bank and Lets Palestinians Vote

You'll be able to use ice skates in Hell.

 

[Coyote]

Why should non Jews be required to recognized the God of Israel? Or the Torah? Or religious law?

I think there is a misunderstanding here. I think this type of misunderstanding is common because people tend to see Judaism through Xtian- or Muslim-colored glasses.

When rylah says:

Torah prescribes for all non-Jews who want to live in the land to

• Recognize the G-d of Israel,
• Recognize the Torah of Moses
• Follow the 7 Laws of Noah
• Submit to Israel's sovereignty

1-3 are fulfilled, we're at stage 4.

notice he says that #1, 2 and 3 are ALREADY fulfilled.

This concept is not meant to be understood as a requirement for each individual citizen of Israel, nor a restriction on individual citizens.

Its an understanding that the nations, generally, have accepted monotheism and a very basic set of moral values. Don't take it to mean that all non-Jewish citizens will be required to do anything or that they will discriminated against. It doesn't mean that at all.

Thank you for clarifying. You are right, it is confusing to this secular person

Yeah, I get that. Its interesting how easy it is for people to miss each other because they are hearing the words in their own native "language" or worldview.

....and when it comes to religion there is a wealth of meaning that isn’t obvious. Any religion. That is why when people take scripture Or religious law out of context it is often misused. (Case in point)

 

[Shusha]

Are suggesting that all violence from Israel’s Jewish citizens is simply responding to Arab hostility and therefore they can not be held responsible for their acts? If so, I strongly disagree.

Nope. Not at all.

There are strong racial overtones in the violence coming out of both sides. How can we prevent them from abusing each other and ...

There you go equivalizing again. They are not abusing each other. Jewish Israelis are NOT breaking into Arab homes and slaughtering entire families with knives. Jewish Israelis are not stabbing Arabs in the streets, or in their mosques. Jewish Israelis are not planting bombs and IEDS and suicide martyrs in civilian locations trying to target as many children as possible. Jewish Israelis are not stockpiling guns in houses of worship. Jews don't collect government pensions for every Arab they slaughter.

And yes, I know there are two notable exceptions. You can name them off the top of your head. They prove the rule.

(I'm not talking about rock throwing in Area C. Whatever, stupid children (literal and figurative). They'll grow out of it.)

Here is a thought. Maybe Israel can sell the Palestinians on the benefits of citizenship. Less corruption, investment, better schools, political accountability, jobs? Maybe they should start actively investing in the Palestinian areas of Area C prior to annexation?

We happen to agree on that. And once Israel decides to fully annex, I am certain that she will provide the option of full Israeli citizenship for anyone who wants it. What happens to those who don't?

 

[Coyote]

The thing is, according to Israel's basic law, second class citizenship it's going to be.

A two-state solution is increasingly unlikely because of Israeli settlements on occupied territory, and the ramped up demolition of Palestinian homes and infrastructure to make more room for more Israeli settlements.

These two comments are simply false.

There is nothing in Israel's laws which make Arabs "second class citizens". Nor does Israel ever demolish Arab Palestinian homes or infrastructure and replace them with Jewish Israeli homes.

There is PLENTY to criticize Israel for. Why do people continue to post blatant lies? Oh. It would be because if they told the truth about Israel, it would be obvious that Israel, for all its faults, is actually one of the better States in the world as far as how it treats its citizens.

Israelis shouldn't even have to justify or defend their reasons to exist. I wonder why Gentiles assume the right to discuss what's right or wrong for someone else's country.

Maybe for the same reason non-gentiles do. I hear plenty of criticism of other nations on these boards by members who are not of the nationality or religion being discussed. Wonder why? Human nature?