What if Israel Annexes the West Bank and Lets Palestinians Vote

[rylah]

Yes. They are. Along with the Palestinians. Because it's not a "Palestinian issue". It's a Palestinian/Israeli issue.

You can't expect ISRAEL to dictate a solution.. For the 109th time, there needs to be a responsible RECOGNIZED leadership that speaks for the Palestinians in occupation in the West Bank....

Probably will never happen..., So the next best thing is to LOCALIZE Pali leadership and governance the way it has ALWAYS BEEN before Europeans redrew the Mid East maps..

Then a coalition of those city leaders would be the de facto NEGOTIATORS for settlement. Works just fine. It's just not been properly proposed and analyzed quite yet... Maybe soon it will be...

Currently the Emirate Plan (Dr. Mordechai Kedar) is less likely an option.

There're more Arab clans on the ground preferring full Israeli sovereignty,
rather than speaking of self-government.

Eventually many realize there're 2 options - either they themselves overthrow Hamas and PA with the support of other Arab states, and position themselves as partners in mutual regional development, or stay an irrelevant obstacle to be tossed the cards accordingly.

Their decision is based on 1000s of years of NOT trusting large federations or govts.. The Emirate plan gives them the ability to SELF govern as they wish without defaulting to a MINORITY Israel political coalition.. Don't think that would last long.. In America -- we RESERVED all the other rights to the states to decide to PREVENT "one size fits all" govt edicts...

And I think the friction would be constant in an "absorbed" solution... ALTHOUGH, the relatively HIGH level of living for Palis would CERTAINLY IMPROVE as citizens.. And that may be WHY the "Pali on street" might be enticed to be a citizen of Israel..

Hate to say it but Dr. Kedar plan is EXCELLENT in terms of the MODEL... But it purposely leaves out creating a COMMERCE and TRADE option that is fair to the Palestinians or the NEIGHBORING Arab countries for that matter...

Still convinced with the tighter bonds between Israel and Egypt, Jordan, Saudi, ect -- this NEEDS to be a regional solution with cooperation on MANY things.. Not just getting the Palis hooked up in commerce with the rest of the world...

That's the part I'm pitching... And INTERESTINGLY, Jared Kuschner's (trump admin) plan fell on its face BECAUSE he only focused on "economic development" for the region and NOT SOLVING the governance/representation issues.. Don't think Palis are more interested in 5G Cell service than they are in what FLAG their police on the street are gonna wear..

Maybe getting some Pali City States/Emirates/Regional solution folks together in a room, there might be a more tasty solution....

I don't want to speculate too much about the Trump deal,
in 3 or less days we'll know.

The way You think is more long term, kinda natural stage of development, which can be achieved in the following decade. Not a matter of instant deals, and I don't think that what it's aiming to address in the current geopolitical situation.

But we may be both surprised.

The days of starting negotiations with a map are over.. Never worked, Never WILL work.. What is needed is a new design for that region.. One that brings fast and unexpected value to ALL the stakeholders.. Creating value out of mere land holdings..

Entrepreneurs understand this.. You take a swamp and build a DisneyWorld on it.. You cut a channel across narrowest part of Central America and change the world.. Everyone knows change happens slowly in the Mid East and there's usually a lot of destruction and false starts before something good happens..

But in this case, the futuristic vision is to take the area BACKWARDS several thousand years and RESTORE it as hub of commerce for the world....

I agree, the key is in wider regional geopolitical development.

That's why solution to this relatively negligible conflict, in the context of the broader region, should come from normalization with the wider Arab world from without, that loses most from investing in the continuation of the conflict, and not the other way around.

 

[Olde Europe]

Good point. But what would you propose instead?

Seriously, Coyote, you are tentatively arguing in favor of Israel committing a heinous crime, and now you are trying to recruit my help in figuring out how to carry it to completion?

Here's what I would propose: Over the next two years, in close coordination with the PA, Israel withdraws everything Israeli from the occupied territory. Settlers are being given the choice of either accepting Palestinian citizenship, if offered by the PA, or resettled to Israel proper. In 2022, no armed Israeli has any business entering the by-then no longer occupied territory other than in reasonable self-defense. By then, a state of "Palestine" (or whatever name they choose) shall be announced to the UN, with the ardent support of Israel, supporting that state's right to exist in both word and deed.

 

[Mindful]

Good point. But what would you propose instead?

Seriously, Coyote, you are tentatively arguing in favor of Israel committing a heinous crime, and now you are trying to recruit my help in figuring out how to carry it to completion?

Here's what I would propose: Over the next two years, in close coordination with the PA, Israel withdraws everything Israeli from the occupied territory. Settlers are being given the choice of either accepting Palestinian citizenship, if offered by the PA, or resettled to Israel proper. In 2022, no armed Israeli has any business entering the by-then no longer occupied territory other than in reasonable self-defense. By then, a state of "Palestine" (or whatever name they choose) shall be announced to the UN, with the ardent support of Israel, supporting that state's right to exist in both word and deed.

They've already had three chances at a Palestinian State.

Good luck with the fourth.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

LARGEST source of income in the West Bank is from HIGHLY SKILLED Palestinians taking in BIG bucks from working in Israel...

They will never be prosperous if they are subordinate to Israel.

Palis in the West Bank are TODAY more prosperous than most of the rest of the Arab world.. Declared "middle class" in comparison to the world population by the World Bank.. Lots of wealth and money and infrastructure in the West Bank that goes with middle class status.. They have their own stock exchange, universities and sports clubs..

Some of the housing there rivals the US middle class standards...

It certainly does.

We need to start a go fund me and SEND Tinmore to the West Bank for a vacation... I think the convos would get more interesting after the trip... I can recommend a couple places to visit... But NO BUS TOURS from Israel OR the West Bank.. Needs to just mingle in the markets and take in the restaurants and culture a bit...

That would be cool. Nabi Saheh and Tent of Nations would be my first stops.

Where would you recommend?

Seriously, you've dedicated your life to this cause. Why don't you actually go? Alison Weir went.

 

[rylah]

Yes it would....maybe semi-autonomy for some areas within an Israeli nation?

Actually fairly COMPLETE autonomy for the City Centers (or states).. Their own laws, own security, own zoning, own taxation, own determination of who speaks for them... This OF COURSE means that have to also have to establish TRADE and routes of commerce and freedom to buy and selll with ANYONE -- not just Israel.. That's why my "Palestine Trade Route" paper INCLUDES these cities at the center of a MAJOR regional transit system..

And there CAN BE a "federation" of all these City Centers (states) that cooperate on regional planning and negotiating with Israel on trade regulations and such...

A lot of Palestinians are agrarian, farmers....how would they fit in to this model?

Farmers are pretty flexible.. They need access to trade routes, water, power and NOT A LOT of "regulation"
or govt.. And if Israel recognizes their property claims and gives them access to the Israeli legal system for disputes, farmers would be just peachy.. More complicated companies and businesses would have more issues being bound by Israeli policies..

I think the main areas along the upper Jordan border would too important to defending BOTH Israel and the "Pali Federation" to NOT annex..But that would not strip out that much of the fertile ground..

One irony was when the Gazan rocket launchers actually hit the power station that was providing them with the everyday means to survive.

Here's another irony.. Gaza's utility bills are paid largely thru the remnants of the PAuthority govt from international aid. And the large reason their lights go out often is that the PA stops paying their bills because they ESSENTIALLY LEFT the PA after going to war with them..

Lot of fancy hotels and restaurants going to candlelight in Gaza...

Or they just stop paying bills, so Gazans get to say they shoot rockets because they have no electricity, and the PA can keep looking "moderate".

In anyway, nothing one signs will be recognized by the other.
They're both irrelevant.

And the world press can blame Israel for turning off the power... So they fight each over paying the utility bills when they're not plotting to assassinate each other... Sounds like a healthy "people" to me...

Have you seen any reliable polls in Gaza as to how happy the CITIZENS are with their choice of leadership? Or have too many poll takers been killed trying to accomplish that simple feat???

Haven't seen any polls.

When a kid, I once made a mistake going to Liveleak to see what the media doesn't show about Gaza.
Let me spare You the graphic descriptions, and just say they love their public executions no less than Americans love their football games.

All eagerly participate, women children.
This was long before ISIS.

 

[rylah]

It is illegal to annex occupied territory.

Was it then an illegal Jordanian occupation of the West Bank for about 15 years before the 67 war? And WhereTF were you when you LEARNED that Jordan was "occupying" it.???


Diff is that majority of Palis APPROVED of Jordan's annex.. Got $$Bills in infrastructure and political control of the WB cities... But Yasser Arafat screwed that relationship by starting a literary invasion of the Kings capitol and got his ass KICKED out of there..

Was it then an illegal Jordanian occupation of the West Bank for about 15 years before the 67 war? And WhereTF were you when you LEARNED that Jordan was "occupying" it.???

I never even heard the word "Palestine" until 20-30 years ago.

Not really into playing games about this anymore.. Only interested in solutions.. And if you can't simply acknowledge that Jordan was the previous "occupier" of Palestine for 20 years or so -- that's your problem, not mine...

And anyway, that statement is blatantly false unless you're so ignorant on this that you don't know what PLO stands for....

I know. It was just before my time.
True it was occupied not annexed.

IF Palestinians could economically and culturally flourish - would you be happy with that result?

Don't be naive... BDS-holes couldn't care less,
their sole goal is destruction of Israel,

Any positive development spells an end to their multi-billion welfare scheme and industry of lies.

 

[P F Tinmore]

LARGEST source of income in the West Bank is from HIGHLY SKILLED Palestinians taking in BIG bucks from working in Israel...

They will never be prosperous if they are subordinate to Israel.

Palis in the West Bank are TODAY more prosperous than most of the rest of the Arab world.. Declared "middle class" in comparison to the world population by the World Bank.. Lots of wealth and money and infrastructure in the West Bank that goes with middle class status.. They have their own stock exchange, universities and sports clubs..

Some of the housing there rivals the US middle class standards...

OK, but working for foreign companies should not be their economic model. And besides, where would those who owned farms work?

Trade and employment with foreign business is an essential aspect of modern economy.
Farming is unfortunately becoming less and less sustainable in the broad sense,
and especially given the tiny land mass.

That said, Israel is becoming a world leader in the transformation towards modern urbanized agriculture technologies. It's a huge business with great potential, no less than the High-Tech industry.

If you want the world economy to return to the 7th century just for the Arabs to "feel comfortable",
this won't happen. They have to be competent in the real world.

Farming is unfortunately becoming less and less sustainable in the broad sense,
and especially given the tiny land mass.

Any country that cannot feed its people is at the whims of others. That is a precarious position.

 

[rylah]

LARGEST source of income in the West Bank is from HIGHLY SKILLED Palestinians taking in BIG bucks from working in Israel...

They will never be prosperous if they are subordinate to Israel.

Palis in the West Bank are TODAY more prosperous than most of the rest of the Arab world.. Declared "middle class" in comparison to the world population by the World Bank.. Lots of wealth and money and infrastructure in the West Bank that goes with middle class status.. They have their own stock exchange, universities and sports clubs..

Some of the housing there rivals the US middle class standards...

OK, but working for foreign companies should not be their economic model. And besides, where would those who owned farms work?

Trade and employment with foreign business is an essential aspect of modern economy.
Farming is unfortunately becoming less and less sustainable in the broad sense,
and especially given the tiny land mass.

That said, Israel is becoming a world leader in the transformation towards modern urbanized agriculture technologies. It's a huge business with great potential, no less than the High-Tech industry.

If you want the world economy to return to the 7th century just for the Arabs to "feel comfortable",
this won't happen. They have to be competent in the real world.

Farming is unfortunately becoming less and less sustainable in the broad sense,
and especially given the tiny land mass.

Any country that cannot feed its people is at the whims of others. That is a precarious position.

So when the potato season ends in your country,
you don't eat potatoes?

Grow up.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

They will never be prosperous if they are subordinate to Israel.

Palis in the West Bank are TODAY more prosperous than most of the rest of the Arab world.. Declared "middle class" in comparison to the world population by the World Bank.. Lots of wealth and money and infrastructure in the West Bank that goes with middle class status.. They have their own stock exchange, universities and sports clubs..

Some of the housing there rivals the US middle class standards...

OK, but working for foreign companies should not be their economic model. And besides, where would those who owned farms work?

Trade and employment with foreign business is an essential aspect of modern economy.
Farming is unfortunately becoming less and less sustainable in the broad sense,
and especially given the tiny land mass.

That said, Israel is becoming a world leader in the transformation towards modern urbanized agriculture technologies. It's a huge business with great potential, no less than the High-Tech industry.

If you want the world economy to return to the 7th century just for the Arabs to "feel comfortable",
this won't happen. They have to be competent in the real world.

Farming is unfortunately becoming less and less sustainable in the broad sense,
and especially given the tiny land mass.

Any country that cannot feed its people is at the whims of others. That is a precarious position.

So when the potato season ends in your country,
you don't eat potatoes?

Grow up.

Yes, Americans drink Columbian coffee, and eat Chilean grapes and Mexican berries.

 

[P F Tinmore]

They will never be prosperous if they are subordinate to Israel.

Palis in the West Bank are TODAY more prosperous than most of the rest of the Arab world.. Declared "middle class" in comparison to the world population by the World Bank.. Lots of wealth and money and infrastructure in the West Bank that goes with middle class status.. They have their own stock exchange, universities and sports clubs..

Some of the housing there rivals the US middle class standards...

OK, but working for foreign companies should not be their economic model. And besides, where would those who owned farms work?

Trade and employment with foreign business is an essential aspect of modern economy.
Farming is unfortunately becoming less and less sustainable in the broad sense,
and especially given the tiny land mass.

That said, Israel is becoming a world leader in the transformation towards modern urbanized agriculture technologies. It's a huge business with great potential, no less than the High-Tech industry.

If you want the world economy to return to the 7th century just for the Arabs to "feel comfortable",
this won't happen. They have to be competent in the real world.

Farming is unfortunately becoming less and less sustainable in the broad sense,
and especially given the tiny land mass.

Any country that cannot feed its people is at the whims of others. That is a precarious position.

So when the potato season ends in your country,
you don't eat potatoes?

Grow up.

Red herring.

Control oil and you can control nations. Control food and you can control the people, ~ Henry Kissinger

Henry Kissinger’s Food Occupation Of Iraq Continues To Destroy The Fertile Crescent

 

[Hollie]

LARGEST source of income in the West Bank is from HIGHLY SKILLED Palestinians taking in BIG bucks from working in Israel...

They will never be prosperous if they are subordinate to Israel.

Palis in the West Bank are TODAY more prosperous than most of the rest of the Arab world.. Declared "middle class" in comparison to the world population by the World Bank.. Lots of wealth and money and infrastructure in the West Bank that goes with middle class status.. They have their own stock exchange, universities and sports clubs..

Some of the housing there rivals the US middle class standards...

OK, but working for foreign companies should not be their economic model. And besides, where would those who owned farms work?

Trade and employment with foreign business is an essential aspect of modern economy.
Farming is unfortunately becoming less and less sustainable in the broad sense,
and especially given the tiny land mass.

That said, Israel is becoming a world leader in the transformation towards modern urbanized agriculture technologies. It's a huge business with great potential, no less than the High-Tech industry.

If you want the world economy to return to the 7th century just for the Arabs to "feel comfortable",
this won't happen. They have to be competent in the real world.

Farming is unfortunately becoming less and less sustainable in the broad sense,
and especially given the tiny land mass.

Any country that cannot feed its people is at the whims of others. That is a precarious position.

Islamic terrorists spending their welfare money on the tunnel
gee-had will have less welfare money for agriculture.

 

[rylah]

Palis in the West Bank are TODAY more prosperous than most of the rest of the Arab world.. Declared "middle class" in comparison to the world population by the World Bank.. Lots of wealth and money and infrastructure in the West Bank that goes with middle class status.. They have their own stock exchange, universities and sports clubs..

Some of the housing there rivals the US middle class standards...

OK, but working for foreign companies should not be their economic model. And besides, where would those who owned farms work?

Trade and employment with foreign business is an essential aspect of modern economy.
Farming is unfortunately becoming less and less sustainable in the broad sense,
and especially given the tiny land mass.

That said, Israel is becoming a world leader in the transformation towards modern urbanized agriculture technologies. It's a huge business with great potential, no less than the High-Tech industry.

If you want the world economy to return to the 7th century just for the Arabs to "feel comfortable",
this won't happen. They have to be competent in the real world.

Farming is unfortunately becoming less and less sustainable in the broad sense,
and especially given the tiny land mass.

Any country that cannot feed its people is at the whims of others. That is a precarious position.

So when the potato season ends in your country,
you don't eat potatoes?

Grow up.

Red herring.

Control oil and you can control nations. Control food and you can control the people, ~ Henry Kissinger

Henry Kissinger’s Food Occupation Of Iraq Continues To Destroy The Fertile Crescent

Indeed you usual deflections.

What you don't understand, is there's no other people or country to control in this equation.
Ramallah becomes and adjacent district to Tel-Aviv, and the entire territory eventually comes under Israeli sovereignty to form a single economic unit, with all pertaining international trade.

On one hand, Israel is world's most vegan nation, as well a world leader in AgriTech.
On the other hand you cling to visions of 7th century Feudalism as ideal of sufficiency.

Again, if you think the world will be held hostage and wait until a handful of privileged Arabs reach their dreams of Utopia in a detached microcosm - further shows their basic lack of sincerity in assuming responsibility for their lives, proving they don't actually look for or deserve a country of their own.

Can you show me a single country where this Utopia exists?

 

[Shusha]

Good point. But what would you propose instead?

Seriously, Coyote, you are tentatively arguing in favor of Israel committing a heinous crime, and now you are trying to recruit my help in figuring out how to carry it to completion?

Here's what I would propose: Over the next two years, in close coordination with the PA, Israel withdraws everything Israeli from the occupied territory. Settlers are being given the choice of either accepting Palestinian citizenship, if offered by the PA, or resettled to Israel proper. In 2022, no armed Israeli has any business entering the by-then no longer occupied territory other than in reasonable self-defense. By then, a state of "Palestine" (or whatever name they choose) shall be announced to the UN, with the ardent support of Israel, supporting that state's right to exist in both word and deed.

Oh look. Another person who accuses Israel of committing a "heinous crime" with no understanding of law.

The conditions you have demanded above are ALREADY in place. Israel has already withdrawn from Palestinian territory. There are no settlers in the Palestinian territory. No armed Israeli enters the Palestinian territory except to carry out duties related to defending Israel and her citizens. Palestine is already has observer status in the UN (thus already announced).

 

[Shusha]

Any country that cannot feed its people is at the whims of others. That is a precarious position.

Then most countries in the world are in that "precarious" position. Only a handful of countries are food self-sufficient. (Canada. Australia. US. Russia. India. France. Argentina. Burma. Thailand.)

 

[flacaltenn]

They will never be prosperous if they are subordinate to Israel.

Palis in the West Bank are TODAY more prosperous than most of the rest of the Arab world.. Declared "middle class" in comparison to the world population by the World Bank.. Lots of wealth and money and infrastructure in the West Bank that goes with middle class status.. They have their own stock exchange, universities and sports clubs..

Some of the housing there rivals the US middle class standards...

OK, but working for foreign companies should not be their economic model. And besides, where would those who owned farms work?

Trade and employment with foreign business is an essential aspect of modern economy.
Farming is unfortunately becoming less and less sustainable in the broad sense,
and especially given the tiny land mass.

That said, Israel is becoming a world leader in the transformation towards modern urbanized agriculture technologies. It's a huge business with great potential, no less than the High-Tech industry.

If you want the world economy to return to the 7th century just for the Arabs to "feel comfortable",
this won't happen. They have to be competent in the real world.

Farming is unfortunately becoming less and less sustainable in the broad sense,
and especially given the tiny land mass.

Any country that cannot feed its people is at the whims of others. That is a precarious position.

So when the potato season ends in your country,
you don't eat potatoes?

Grow up.

Yeah -- but we're shipping those foreign potato farmers Strawberries and Oranges and meat in the winter to PAY for it...

Pali farmers can also upgrade their operations. In fact, they're pretty good at it.. For awhile this one operation was providing about 90% of the mushrooms to Israel... Until Israel embargoed the manure they were using for "security reasons".. Which is far fetched, but technically, you COULD make explosives... Seems like protecting Israeli mushroom farmers is pretty easy to do when you control the gates of commerce.

Just need to a have a fairer and MORE TRUSTING trading relationship with Palestinians...



But just don't follow OUR example of "trade negotiations" or import/export balancing... LOL.....

 

[flacaltenn]

Good point. But what would you propose instead?

Seriously, Coyote, you are tentatively arguing in favor of Israel committing a heinous crime, and now you are trying to recruit my help in figuring out how to carry it to completion?

Here's what I would propose: Over the next two years, in close coordination with the PA, Israel withdraws everything Israeli from the occupied territory. Settlers are being given the choice of either accepting Palestinian citizenship, if offered by the PA, or resettled to Israel proper. In 2022, no armed Israeli has any business entering the by-then no longer occupied territory other than in reasonable self-defense. By then, a state of "Palestine" (or whatever name they choose) shall be announced to the UN, with the ardent support of Israel, supporting that state's right to exist in both word and deed.

Wow.. You have a plan... I thought you were just here to jeer at people that want this fixed...

Problem is -- if in 2022 no armed Israeli has any business at all in the West Bank territories, by 2025, ISiS or other radicals will have CONSUMED it for lunch.. If you're ISOLATING the Palis in a situation where their NEW commerce gate keeper is Jordan, they still won't be completely free to deal their goods and imports with the rest of the world.. And in reciprocation, the "NO JEW feet" in the West Bank would probably shut off the valuable INCOMES of many middle class Palis from working in Israel as "retaliation"... Which is right NOW a very large chunk of Pali income..

What you want is isolation from Israel.. You have no defense plan.. And -- to BOOT, the Palestinians have never in modern times succeeded in agreeing and LOVING any kind of "centralized govt"...

What you DONT know, is that Pali opinion of the PA is very bad... In a 2018 article by Dr. Khalil Shikaki which I quote in my policy proposal ----

More than 1/2 of the public views the PA as a burden on Palestinian people, and a large majority, ranging from 60 to 70% in 2018 , demands the resignation of the PA President Mahmoud Abbas. <SNIP>Confidence in diplomacy has plummeted: only 25% of Palestinians believe a Palestinian state will emerge in the next five years.

With that kind of instability and sentiment, there's simply NO ONE FOR Israel to negotiate with.. I could get into the 2000 year Arab history of distributed tribal govt here, but suffice it to say, very damn few Arabs TRUST democracy and they're not fond of strong man dictatorships flying their flag either..

So -- under those handicaps -- a "WITHDRAWAL" from the West Bank, like the one Israel did in 2002 where they DRAGGED EVERY JEW out of Gaza and turned it over to the PA only to have it RIPPED IN CIVIL WAR between Palis FROM the PA by Hamas -- just isn't a mistake anyone is gonna make anymore... No one LIKES the Gaza embargo, but even the remnant of the PA does NOT get along at all with the Hamas Gaza govt...

You need to refine your proposal....

 

[flacaltenn]

They will never be prosperous if they are subordinate to Israel.

Palis in the West Bank are TODAY more prosperous than most of the rest of the Arab world.. Declared "middle class" in comparison to the world population by the World Bank.. Lots of wealth and money and infrastructure in the West Bank that goes with middle class status.. They have their own stock exchange, universities and sports clubs..

Some of the housing there rivals the US middle class standards...

It certainly does.

We need to start a go fund me and SEND Tinmore to the West Bank for a vacation... I think the convos would get more interesting after the trip... I can recommend a couple places to visit... But NO BUS TOURS from Israel OR the West Bank.. Needs to just mingle in the markets and take in the restaurants and culture a bit...

That would be cool. Nabi Saheh and Tent of Nations would be my first stops.

Where would you recommend?

You can't expect Flaca to be your tour guide.

Try these: Palestine Society of Tourism & Travel Agents

I don't do tour buses in the Holy Land.. It's all propaganda... My 1st M in Law came back from Israel with all this misinformation like "there just isn't any crime in Israel"... My colleagues and i would rent a car and just go.. I suppose they are insured if we ended up with a rock thru the windshield..

Once we got caught in the Old City narrow hallways when Muslim school got let out.. I was pinned to the wall between a couple spice carts and got a donkey tail end in my face... And somewhere in the early evening near Bethlehem, we were surrounded by SOME kind of protest parade with small pickups flying flags with didn't recognize and a lot of shouting and fireworks.. THAT's what I want.. LOL....

 

[Mindful]

Palis in the West Bank are TODAY more prosperous than most of the rest of the Arab world.. Declared "middle class" in comparison to the world population by the World Bank.. Lots of wealth and money and infrastructure in the West Bank that goes with middle class status.. They have their own stock exchange, universities and sports clubs..

Some of the housing there rivals the US middle class standards...

It certainly does.

We need to start a go fund me and SEND Tinmore to the West Bank for a vacation... I think the convos would get more interesting after the trip... I can recommend a couple places to visit... But NO BUS TOURS from Israel OR the West Bank.. Needs to just mingle in the markets and take in the restaurants and culture a bit...

That would be cool. Nabi Saheh and Tent of Nations would be my first stops.

Where would you recommend?

You can't expect Flaca to be your tour guide.

Try these: Palestine Society of Tourism & Travel Agents

I don't do tour buses in the Holy Land.. It's all propaganda... My 1st M in Law came back from Israel with all this misinformation like "there just isn't any crime in Israel"... My colleagues and i would rent a car and just go.. I suppose they are insured if we ended up with a rock thru the windshield..

Once we got caught in the Old City narrow hallways when Muslim school got let out.. I was pinned to the wall between a couple spice carts and got a donkey tail end in my face... And somewhere in the early evening near Bethlehem, we were surrounded by SOME kind of protest parade with small pickups flying flags with didn't recognize and a lot of shouting and fireworks.. THAT's what I want.. LOL....

Tinmore might love it. I think he thought it might be all about olive picking. I went all around the WB in the halcyon days before the Intifadas began.

What you said earlier about the standard of living. I noticed that.

 

[TDontTouchMyCigars]

There will simply be no Israel.

AND DONT READ HAARETZ!!!

 

[P F Tinmore]

They will never be prosperous if they are subordinate to Israel.

Palis in the West Bank are TODAY more prosperous than most of the rest of the Arab world.. Declared "middle class" in comparison to the world population by the World Bank.. Lots of wealth and money and infrastructure in the West Bank that goes with middle class status.. They have their own stock exchange, universities and sports clubs..

Some of the housing there rivals the US middle class standards...

OK, but working for foreign companies should not be their economic model. And besides, where would those who owned farms work?

Trade and employment with foreign business is an essential aspect of modern economy.
Farming is unfortunately becoming less and less sustainable in the broad sense,
and especially given the tiny land mass.

That said, Israel is becoming a world leader in the transformation towards modern urbanized agriculture technologies. It's a huge business with great potential, no less than the High-Tech industry.

If you want the world economy to return to the 7th century just for the Arabs to "feel comfortable",
this won't happen. They have to be competent in the real world.

Farming is unfortunately becoming less and less sustainable in the broad sense,
and especially given the tiny land mass.

Any country that cannot feed its people is at the whims of others. That is a precarious position.

Islamic terrorists spending their welfare money on the tunnel
gee-had will have less welfare money for agriculture.

Stupid post.

You can't grow food on money. You grow food on land.

When all of your land is stolen, you are out of business.