What leader, what government, what country is getting right?

[Foxfyre]

GM, Chrysler (partially), Fannie & Freddie and student loans.

What would you say is too much?

The government does not own any part of GM or Chrysler. The government loaned GM 8.1 billion. GM announced this week the payback of the loan. The government loaned Fiat, the company that bought Chrylser 4.7 billion. Fiat said they will begin payback in 2011. The government does not own part of either company.

Fannie Mae was established as a government agency in 1938. In 1968, Fannie Mae became a government-sponsored enterprise (GSE) chartered by Congress. The only change since Obama took office is that the fed has pumped money into it to shore up the mortgage market. It was certainly not nationalized by Obama. The story is much the same with Freddie Mac. Both corporations are investor owned and listed on the New York Stock Exchange.

When you refer to student loans, I suppose you are referring to Sallie Mae which is an investor owned corporation listed on the New York Stock Exchange. Sallie Mae received government loans however the government does not own Sallie Mae.

From Wiki just because I'm headed to bed and don't want to take the time to hunt up another source:

. . . .GM is now temporarily majority owned by the United States Treasury and, to a smaller extent, the Canada Development Investment Corporation[7] — a Canadian Crown corporation[8] — and the Ontario government,[clarification needed][9][10][11] with the US government investing a total of US$57.6 billion under the Troubled Asset Relief Program.[12] . . . .

. . . .Although the Obama administration had initially provided the automaker five years to repay the money in full, in March 2010 GM made more than $2 billion in payments to the U.S. and Canadian governments and promised to pay the full balance of the loan portion by June. The company beat that self-imposed deadline when on April 21, 2010, GM CEO Ed Whitacre Jr. announced that the company had paid back the entire amount of the U.S. and Canadian government loans, with interest, a total of $8.1 billion. The government still has $2.1 billion invested in preferred shares that pay dividends, plus a 61% share of common equity valued at about $45 billion to the U.S. and another $8.1 billion to Canada. Improved sales of new models are cited as improving the company's cash flow and allowing for the early payments. GM is also investing hundreds of millions in assembly plants in Kansas and Detroit, credited for preserving jobs. . . .

General Motors - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And then we can talk about the huge number of shares Obama allowed the union to take over which at least some analysts believes will give Obama any kind of leverage he wants in the company. The CEO still serves at Obama's pleasure . . . .

Edit to add this link as a secondary source providing additional information and explaining why the U.S. Government remains the primary stockholder in GM:
http://everydayecon.wordpress.com/2010/04/22/did-gm-pay-back-its-loan-sort-of/

 

[Flopper]

GM, Chrysler (partially), Fannie & Freddie and student loans.

What would you say is too much?

The government does not own any part of GM or Chrysler. The government loaned GM 8.1 billion. GM announced this week the payback of the loan. The government loaned Fiat, the company that bought Chrylser 4.7 billion. Fiat said they will begin payback in 2011. The government does not own part of either company.

Fannie Mae was established as a government agency in 1938. In 1968, Fannie Mae became a government-sponsored enterprise (GSE) chartered by Congress. The only change since Obama took office is that the fed has pumped money into it to shore up the mortgage market. It was certainly not nationalized by Obama. The story is much the same with Freddie Mac. Both corporations are investor owned and listed on the New York Stock Exchange.

When you refer to student loans, I suppose you are referring to Sallie Mae which is an investor owned corporation listed on the New York Stock Exchange. Sallie Mae received government loans however the government does not own Sallie Mae.

From Wiki just because I'm headed to bed and don't want to take the time to hunt up another source:

. . . .GM is now temporarily majority owned by the United States Treasury and, to a smaller extent, the Canada Development Investment Corporation[7] — a Canadian Crown corporation[8] — and the Ontario government,[clarification needed][9][10][11] with the US government investing a total of US$57.6 billion under the Troubled Asset Relief Program.[12] . . . .

. . . .Although the Obama administration had initially provided the automaker five years to repay the money in full, in March 2010 GM made more than $2 billion in payments to the U.S. and Canadian governments and promised to pay the full balance of the loan portion by June. The company beat that self-imposed deadline when on April 21, 2010, GM CEO Ed Whitacre Jr. announced that the company had paid back the entire amount of the U.S. and Canadian government loans, with interest, a total of $8.1 billion. The government still has $2.1 billion invested in preferred shares that pay dividends, plus a 61% share of common equity valued at about $45 billion to the U.S. and another $8.1 billion to Canada. Improved sales of new models are cited as improving the company's cash flow and allowing for the early payments. GM is also investing hundreds of millions in assembly plants in Kansas and Detroit, credited for preserving jobs. . . .

General Motors - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And then we can talk about the huge number of shares Obama allowed the union to take over which at least some analysts believes will give Obama any kind of leverage he wants in the company. The CEO still serves at Obama's pleasure . . . .

Edit to add this link as a secondary source providing additional information and explaining why the U.S. Government remains the primary stockholder in GM:
Did GM Pay Back Its Loan? Sort of. The Everyday Economist

Yes, you are correct. The government did receive temporary partial ownership as a part of the reorganization, however the form of ownership is preferred stock which has no voting rights and thus has no voice in how the business is run. It therefore has not been nationalized.

 

[JBeukema]

Show me a country that gives you more freedoms

1 Hong Kong 89.7 -0.3 2 Singapore 86.1 -1.0 3 Australia 82.6 0.0 4 New Zealand 82.1 0.1 5 Ireland 81.3 -0.9 6 Switzerland 81.1 1.7 7 Canada 80.4 -0.1 8 United States 78.0 -2.7 9 Denmark 77.9 -1.7 10 Chile 77.2 -1.1

Index of Economic Freedom: Link Between Economic Opportunity and Prosperity | The Heritage Foundation


World Press Freedom Index 2009 - The rankings
Rank Country Note
1 Denmark 0,00 􀀁􀀁
_ Finland 0,00 􀀁
_ Ireland 0,00 􀀁
_ Norway 0,00 =
_ Sweden 0,00 􀀁
6 Estonia 0,50 􀀁
7 Netherlands 1,00 􀀁
_ Switzerland 1,00 =
9 Iceland 2,00 􀀁
10 Lithuania 2,25 􀀁
11 Belgium 2,50 􀀁
_ Malta 2,50 NC
13 Austria 3,00 􀀁
_ Latvia 3,00 􀀁
_ New Zealand 3,00 􀀁
16 Australia 3,13 􀀁􀀁
17 Japan 3,25 􀀁􀀁
18 Germany 3,50 􀀁
19 Canada 3,70 􀀁
20 Luxembourg 4,00 􀀁􀀁
_ United Kingdom 4,00 􀀁
_ United States of America

http://en.rsf.org/IMG/pdf/classement_en.pdf

, more gun rights,

somalia?


see the first point



Please define the characteristics that mark a desirable tax system in your opinion
SHOW ME.

The US has leadership challenges most countries do not; over 300 million people, a very diverse population,

mole sua

the highest standard of living to maintain.

1 ▬

Norway 0.971 ▲ 0.001 2 ▬

Australia 0.970 ▲ 0.002 3 ▬

Iceland 0.969 ▲ 0.002 4 ▬

Canada 0.966 ▲ 0.001 5 ▬

Ireland 0.965 ▲ 0.001 6 ▲ (1)

Netherlands 0.964 ▲ 0.003 7 ▼ (1)

Sweden 0.963 ▲ 0.002 8 ▲ (3)

France 0.961 ▲ 0.003 9 ▬

Switzerland 0.960 ▲ 0.001 10 ▬

Japan 0.960 ▲ 0.002 11 ▼ (3)

Luxembourg 0.960 ▲ 0.001 12 ▲ (1)

Finland 0.959 ▲ 0.004 13 ▼ (1)

United States

List of countries by Human Development Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

why'd you suddenly go silent?

 

[JBeukema]

The point is show me a better leader, a better government, a better country than our Obama led government.

It is easy to say in a theoretical sense you can do a lot better.

Show us some real world examples.

I am taking from your response you cannot name any.

We are America. We are unique. We don't need to follow the example of others. We were founded to be a beacon - a unique, free society for others to emulate.... not to emulate others. Have you never read our history?

What a fucking dumbassed question.

unique how?

We're not the only democracy

we're not the only republic

we're not the only nation with a secular government

we're not the only multiracial nation

we're not the only one with nukes

many of our civil laws are based on those we inherited from British common law

unique how?

She shut her mouth for some reason...

 

[PatekPhilippe]

You people always want to start a war when you lose an election?

I could care less who's in the WH....but when the government begins to dismantle what took 200 years to build it's a little upsetting.

are you simple?

The US that was created 200 years ago was thrown out by Lincoln and exists in name and lipservice only

Apparently you are simple you stupid fuck...like I said...you need to learn how to read without sticking your festering boil covered foot in your mouth everytime you open it.

I didn't say a goddam thing about "200 years ago".....quit making shit up and assuming you know what you're talking about....because you DON'T.

 

[rightwinger]

What leader, what government, what country is getting right?

Obama

Ours

USA

You have to admit, Obama is doing a good job of cleaning up 8 years of Republican fuck-ups.

Health care - check

Economy - check

Wall Street Regulation - check

Still working:

Iraq

Afghanistan

Infrastructure

Plans:

Mars

Energy

Education

------------------------

Don't worry, Obama will drag this nation, with the Republicans kicking and screaming every step of the way, to "greatness", whether they want it or not.

Since you put it that way....I have to agree with you

I am unaware of any leader in the world who is doing a better job than our very own President Obama

I'm sure our wingnuts will be able to spout a few names

The funny thing is that he claims to be a republican.

What a fucking liar.

As expected....I notice that AmwayMike is unable to name a single leader in the world who is doing better than President Obama

 

[PatekPhilippe]

The government does not own any part of GM or Chrysler. The government loaned GM 8.1 billion. GM announced this week the payback of the loan. The government loaned Fiat, the company that bought Chrylser 4.7 billion. Fiat said they will begin payback in 2011. The government does not own part of either company.

Fannie Mae was established as a government agency in 1938. In 1968, Fannie Mae became a government-sponsored enterprise (GSE) chartered by Congress. The only change since Obama took office is that the fed has pumped money into it to shore up the mortgage market. It was certainly not nationalized by Obama. The story is much the same with Freddie Mac. Both corporations are investor owned and listed on the New York Stock Exchange.

When you refer to student loans, I suppose you are referring to Sallie Mae which is an investor owned corporation listed on the New York Stock Exchange. Sallie Mae received government loans however the government does not own Sallie Mae.

From Wiki just because I'm headed to bed and don't want to take the time to hunt up another source:

. . . .GM is now temporarily majority owned by the United States Treasury and, to a smaller extent, the Canada Development Investment Corporation[7] — a Canadian Crown corporation[8] — and the Ontario government,[clarification needed][9][10][11] with the US government investing a total of US$57.6 billion under the Troubled Asset Relief Program.[12] . . . .

. . . .Although the Obama administration had initially provided the automaker five years to repay the money in full, in March 2010 GM made more than $2 billion in payments to the U.S. and Canadian governments and promised to pay the full balance of the loan portion by June. The company beat that self-imposed deadline when on April 21, 2010, GM CEO Ed Whitacre Jr. announced that the company had paid back the entire amount of the U.S. and Canadian government loans, with interest, a total of $8.1 billion. The government still has $2.1 billion invested in preferred shares that pay dividends, plus a 61% share of common equity valued at about $45 billion to the U.S. and another $8.1 billion to Canada. Improved sales of new models are cited as improving the company's cash flow and allowing for the early payments. GM is also investing hundreds of millions in assembly plants in Kansas and Detroit, credited for preserving jobs. . . .

General Motors - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And then we can talk about the huge number of shares Obama allowed the union to take over which at least some analysts believes will give Obama any kind of leverage he wants in the company. The CEO still serves at Obama's pleasure . . . .

Edit to add this link as a secondary source providing additional information and explaining why the U.S. Government remains the primary stockholder in GM:
Did GM Pay Back Its Loan? Sort of. The Everyday Economist

Yes, you are correct. The government did receive temporary partial ownership as a part of the reorganization, however the form of ownership is preferred stock which has no voting rights and thus has no voice in how the business is run. It therefore has not been nationalized.

Ya....Obama isn't doing a thing to the company the government doesn't own or control....got any more bullshit to post? Please feel free.
U.S. Plans Key Role In Naming GM Board - washingtonpost.com

 

[rightwinger]

From Wiki just because I'm headed to bed and don't want to take the time to hunt up another source:


General Motors - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And then we can talk about the huge number of shares Obama allowed the union to take over which at least some analysts believes will give Obama any kind of leverage he wants in the company. The CEO still serves at Obama's pleasure . . . .

Edit to add this link as a secondary source providing additional information and explaining why the U.S. Government remains the primary stockholder in GM:
Did GM Pay Back Its Loan? Sort of. The Everyday Economist

Yes, you are correct. The government did receive temporary partial ownership as a part of the reorganization, however the form of ownership is preferred stock which has no voting rights and thus has no voice in how the business is run. It therefore has not been nationalized.

Ya....Obama isn't doing a thing to the company the government doesn't own or control....got any more bullshit to post? Please feel free.
U.S. Plans Key Role In Naming GM Board - washingtonpost.com

The GM bailout is shaping up to be a great investment by the US Government. Once we sell our stock we should make a good profit since GM is starting to become a tempting investment again.

 

[rdean]

From Wiki just because I'm headed to bed and don't want to take the time to hunt up another source:


General Motors - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And then we can talk about the huge number of shares Obama allowed the union to take over which at least some analysts believes will give Obama any kind of leverage he wants in the company. The CEO still serves at Obama's pleasure . . . .

Edit to add this link as a secondary source providing additional information and explaining why the U.S. Government remains the primary stockholder in GM:
Did GM Pay Back Its Loan? Sort of. The Everyday Economist

Yes, you are correct. The government did receive temporary partial ownership as a part of the reorganization, however the form of ownership is preferred stock which has no voting rights and thus has no voice in how the business is run. It therefore has not been nationalized.

Ya....Obama isn't doing a thing to the company the government doesn't own or control....got any more bullshit to post? Please feel free.
U.S. Plans Key Role In Naming GM Board - washingtonpost.com

So I go to your article and it starts off with:

Wednesday, April 1, 2009

That's right "APRIL FOOL'S DAY".

Since then, GM, because of unprecedented sales in China and India (which I previously posted from "Manufacturing Today"), is paying off it's debt "FIVE YEARS EARLY".

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Yes, you are correct. The government did receive temporary partial ownership as a part of the reorganization, however the form of ownership is preferred stock which has no voting rights and thus has no voice in how the business is run. It therefore has not been nationalized.

Ya....Obama isn't doing a thing to the company the government doesn't own or control....got any more bullshit to post? Please feel free.
U.S. Plans Key Role In Naming GM Board - washingtonpost.com

So I go to your article and it starts off with:

Wednesday, April 1, 2009

That's right "APRIL FOOL'S DAY".

Since then, GM, because of unprecedented sales in China and India (which I previously posted from "Manufacturing Today"), is paying off it's debt "FIVE YEARS EARLY".

Ya...with TARP money!!!!!!!

 

[JBeukema]

I could care less who's in the WH....but when the government begins to dismantle what took 200 years to build it's a little upsetting.

are you simple?

The US that was created 200 years ago was thrown out by Lincoln and exists in name and lipservice only

Apparently you are simple you stupid fuck...like I said...you need to learn how to read without sticking your festering boil covered foot in your mouth everytime you open it.

I didn't say a goddam thing about "200 years ago".....quit making shit up and assuming you know what you're talking about....because you DON'T.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

are you simple?

The US that was created 200 years ago was thrown out by Lincoln and exists in name and lipservice only

Apparently you are simple you stupid fuck...like I said...you need to learn how to read without sticking your festering boil covered foot in your mouth everytime you open it.

I didn't say a goddam thing about "200 years ago".....quit making shit up and assuming you know what you're talking about....because you DON'T.

Reading is fundamental you dumb fuck!!!! "over 200 years" does NOT mean exactly "200 years ago". Clean up your act jackass!

 

[JBeukema]

I never said 'exactly 200 years ago', you idiot.

Anyone with a brain knows that people often use convenient numbers when approximating (such as saying Jesus lives 2000 years ago even though it's more like 2024 depending on which estimate of his birth date you use)

 

[PatekPhilippe]

I never said 'exactly 200 years ago', you idiot.

Anyone with a brain knows that people often use convenient numbers when approximating (such as saying Jesus lives 2000 years ago even though it's more like 2024 depending on which estimate of his birth date you use)

Look where the quotation marks are in my post dumb fuck.

Clean up your act jackass!!!!

 

[JBeukema]

Apparently you are simple you stupid fuck...like I said...you need to learn how to read without sticking your festering boil covered foot in your mouth everytime you open it.

I didn't say a goddam thing about "200 years ago".....quit making shit up and assuming you know what you're talking about....because you DON'T.

Reading is fundamental you dumb fuck!!!! "over 200 years" does NOT mean exactly "200 years ago". Clean up your act jackass!

'

you didn't say 'over 200 years'

you said

what took 200 years to build

dumbass

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Reading is fundamental you dumb fuck!!!! "over 200 years" does NOT mean exactly "200 years ago". Clean up your act jackass!

'

you didn't say 'over 200 years'

you said

what took 200 years to build

dumbass

Clean up your act jackass. Learn to comprehend what you read. Better yet...get a GED.

 

[Cuyo]

I don't have to do that. This country is the greatest on the planet....and it's NOT DUE TO A SINGLE THING Obama has done. Right now 70% of Americans are against the direction the country is headed in. That's all the justification I need to once again exercise my vote.

I've got "Wrong Track" @ 58% RCP Average. It's been steadily improving since Obama took office.

Just Sayin.

Incidentally, it's improved significantly since healthcare passed; I know this because of a side bet I have with Xeno. It was a 26.7% spread in the days following; Now it's a 21.4% spread.

 

[JBeukema]

you just got caught lying about what you said and now you're trying to attack my character?

 

[Flopper]

From Wiki just because I'm headed to bed and don't want to take the time to hunt up another source:


General Motors - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And then we can talk about the huge number of shares Obama allowed the union to take over which at least some analysts believes will give Obama any kind of leverage he wants in the company. The CEO still serves at Obama's pleasure . . . .

Edit to add this link as a secondary source providing additional information and explaining why the U.S. Government remains the primary stockholder in GM:
Did GM Pay Back Its Loan? Sort of. The Everyday Economist

Yes, you are correct. The government did receive temporary partial ownership as a part of the reorganization, however the form of ownership is preferred stock which has no voting rights and thus has no voice in how the business is run. It therefore has not been nationalized.

Ya....Obama isn't doing a thing to the company the government doesn't own or control....got any more bullshit to post? Please feel free.
U.S. Plans Key Role In Naming GM Board - washingtonpost.com

The bailout will not give the government any more influence over the company than any other creditor. The government has no voice in the running of the company.

 

[tigerbob]

I am hearing many who feel Obama is creating a socialist state, taking our rights away, basically creating a tyrannical government.

To those individuals I ask what real world leader, leading a real world government in a real country is better than a Obama led government in the USA.

I am guessing you will have several countries based on the total dissatifaction with Obama.

What an utterly insipid question.