Zone1 Where does it say in the Bible only adults can be baptized?

[Unkotare]

Saying something is unbiblical is not "pretending to be God," ....

Take it up with him.

 

[Meriweather]

And babies have that desire? An infant doesn't understand concepts like God, salvation, etc.

Babies are not hermits. They are part of a family. Or do they only become actual members of the family when they reach a certain age? Babies are no more left out of the family of the Body of Christ than they are left out of human families.

 

[Unkotare]

People who look at faith as an argument to be "won" aren't really people of faith.

 

[buttercup]

Do the laws of Leviticus and Deuteronomy apply to today? If not, why not?

The moral laws which are eternal still apply. But not the ceremonial and civil laws which were temporal.

We're under a New Covenant. For example, we are no longer sacrificing animals to atone for sin since Jesus is the once and for all sacrifice. But you know this already, right?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The moral laws which are eternal still apply. But not the ceremonial and civil laws which were temporal.

We're under a New Covenant. For example, we are no longer sacrificing animals to atone for sin since Jesus is the once and for all sacrifice. But you know this already, right?

NO she doesn't she is a non-believer pretending to be a Christian, she is a troll.

 

[buttercup]

Babies are not hermits. They are part of a family. Or do they only become actual members of the family when they reach a certain age? Babies are no more left out of the family of the Body of Christ than they are left out of human families.

Hold on, you're moving the goal posts.

In response to someone's question "What causes the Holy Spirit to be there?" you replied: "The desire for baptism."

Do babies have the desire for baptism, yes or no?

 

[Unkotare]

Ego isn't faith. It's kinda the opposite. People who mistake ego for faith are essentially atheists.

 

[Meriweather]

In response to someone's question "What causes the Holy Spirit to be there?" you replied: "The desire for baptism."

Do babies have the desire for baptism, yes or no?

Family. Extend that to the family of the Body of Christ. From there it is not hard to reach Christ.

Look, if someone wants to keep their distance from Christ until they are older, let them be. If someone wants to keep their children from Christ, let them be. They must have their reasons. I (and other Catholics) have no reason not to keep our children close to Christ from the beginning. I don't know about you, but my babies trusted me to give them the best care and upbringing possible. I wasn't about to let them down. That's family. That's the Body of Christ.

 

[forkintheroad7]

People who look at faith as an argument to be "won" aren't really people of faith.

That goes w/o saying

 

[buttercup]

Family. Extend that to the family of the Body of Christ. From there it is not hard to reach Christ.

Family or other Christians cannot choose for someone else. We ALL make the choice on our own, and it has to be our own, or else it is not genuine. You cannot force others to repent and believe.

Look, if someone wants to keep their distance from Christ until they are older, let them be. If someone wants to keep their children from Christ, let them be. They must have their reasons. I (and other Catholics) have no reason not to keep our children close to Christ from the beginning. I don't know about you, but my babies trusted me to give them the best care and upbringing possible. I wasn't about to let them down. That's family. That's the Body of Christ.

^ No one has said that. That is a huge strawman. OF COURSE we want our children to be close to God and raise our children in the ways of God, teaching them from a young age.

That is what baby dedication is all about... which is biblical.

But raising children to know God is not the same thing as baptizing them as an infant and thinking that is part of salvation. It is entirely meaningless if the person being baptized doesn't even understand what is going on, let alone has made the choice themself to believe, repent and follow Jesus.

 

[buttercup]

Take it up with him.

When millions of people are being misled and given a false sense of security in regard to the most important doctrine of all (salvation) which can lead to eternal separation from God, then it would be wrong for Christians to NOT expose that type of error.

Also, the bible itself tells us to correct error and expose false teachings.

"Preach the message, be ready whether it is convenient or not, reprove, rebuke, exhort with complete patience and instruction."​

​

- 2 Timothy 4:2​

And there are many more scriptures that say basically the same thing. I for one am thankful for other Christians who exposed any false teachings that I believed, because I always want to learn and grow. If we as Christians never listen to other Christians and if we have an unteachable spirit, then we would be perpetually stuck in the same place spiritually we were at decades ago... instead of continually learning and growing which is what the bible from cover to cover says should happen.

 

[Unkotare]

People who look at faith as an argument to be "won" aren't really people of faith.

^

 

[buttercup]

Unkotare - You're not engaging in real discussion or debate, all you're doing is posting one-line ad homs and giving thumb-downs.

Do you disagree that giving people a false sense of security that can lead to eternal separation from God is something that should addressed?

If anything I stated in post #191 is false, then show how it is wrong, in a clear reasonable way, and back yourself up scripturally. If you feel so strongly about this, then it shouldn't be hard to do.

 

[Meriweather]

But raising children to know God is not the same thing as baptizing them as an infant and thinking that is part of salvation. It is entirely meaningless if the person being baptized doesn't even understand what is going on, let alone has made the choice themself to believe, repent and follow Jesus.

When I held and looked at my babies for the first time, I was in awe. I was holding a child of God. Through Christ all of mankind was redeemed and the way of salvation, the way of Christ, was open to all. The way of Christ begins with baptism. Again, those who do not see their newborn as a child of God; those who see their newborn and for whatever reason they have choose to wait to start their child on the way of salvation--that is their call.

Do those who are baptized still repent of sin after their baptism? Or is repentance seen as a one time event that takes place only with baptism?

 

[forkintheroad7]

The True Catholic faith teaches that even babies do not go directly into Heaven when they die UNLESS they are baptized.

They do not burn in the fires of Hell, however. I am not sure even the Ancient Church knows exactly what happens to them but they are barred from entering Heaven (immediately?) because they have original sin on their souls

 

[Meriweather]

2 Timothy 4:2

What does 2 Timothy 4:2 have to do with Matthew 19:14

 

[surada]

NO she doesn't she is a non-believer pretending to be a Christian, she is a troll.

I'm not your kind of Christian, but Christian nonetheless. People like you think you're judges and always seek to make the other person wrong. I'm a preterist so have studied seriously from 300 BC to 200 AD. I'm still learning. Norwegian is a huge asset to this board.

 

[buttercup]

When I held and looked at my babies for the first time, I was in awe. I was holding a child of God. Through Christ all of mankind was redeemed and the way of salvation, the way of Christ, was open to all. The way of Christ begins with baptism. Again, those who do not see their newborn as a child of God; those who see their newborn and for whatever reason they have choose to wait to start their child on the way of salvation--that is their call.

Do those who are baptized still repent of sin after their baptism? Or is repentance seen as a one time event that takes place only with baptism?

I agree that salvation is open to all. But that doesn't mean all choose it.

We all must make the choice on our own. If it's not our own... if it's someone else's choice for us, then it's not genuine.

And yes, of course we still repent when we do wrong, even after becoming a Christian. But not to "maintain" our salvation. Justification is a one-time event. Once we're a Christian, repenting after doing something wrong is about being right with God....and of course making the choice to stop doing wrong things so we can move forward.

 

[Unkotare]

Unkotare - You're not engaging in real discussion or debate, all you're doing is posting one-line ad homs and giving thumb-downs.

Do you disagree that giving people a false sense of security that can lead to eternal separation from God is something that should addressed?

If anything I stated in post #191 is false, then show how it is wrong, in a clear reasonable way, and back yourself up scripturally. If you feel so strongly about this, then it shouldn't be hard to do.

Desperate to "win" an "argument"? You sound just like many Muslim people I have met. Nice people, but they felt the need to "win" what they saw as an "argument." They were certain every word in the Quran was the direct and literal word of God, and so by referring to it they could "win" the "argument." I'm happy to leave them, and you, to it. All that mess isn't what faith means to me. I guess that's how I can respect people of all faiths; all people of faith.

 

[buttercup]

Desperate to "win" an "argument"? You sound just like many Muslim people I have met. Nice people, but they felt the need to "win" what they saw as an "argument." They were certain every word in the Quran was the direct and literal word of God, and so by referring to it they could "win" the "argument." I'm happy to leave them, and you, to it. All that mess isn't what faith means to me. I guess that's how I can respect people of all faiths; all people of faith.

If I cared only about winning an argument, I wouldn't have only 10,000 posts in 14 years, as opposed to 130,000 posts.

I've said this so many times now, I've lost count, but I'll say it one more time.

People are being misled about something very, VERY important... salvation, our eternal destiny.

If you think that Christians shouldn't care about others having a false sense of security that can lead to eternal separation from God, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.