Zone1 Where does it say in the Bible only adults can be baptized?

[buttercup]

The gospels were written by men. Deuteronomy and Leviticus were written by men.

I'm well aware that you don't believe the scriptures were inspired by God.

Why you still call yourself a Christian is beyond me... when you constantly agree with the most anti-christian folks on these threads, and you go against nearly everything the bible says.

 

[LeroyDumonde]

How does anyone repent for a sin s/he didn't commit?

They can't.

There was a time in the early Church that people decided no one could repent of a sin they had not yet committed...so they waited until their deathbed to be baptized so that all sins were forgiven.

Baptism is for repentance not forgiveness.

Next, when was Christ baptized--At the beginning of his ministry? In the middle of it? At the end?

At the beginning. Of course that opens up a can of worms about why a sinless man would need to repent from his sins.

The Catholic faith has referred to Baptism as a Sacrament of Initiation into the Body of Christ.

They can call it whatever they want. A rose by any other name would still be for the repentance of sins.

Adam and Eve represent the sin of turning away from God. Baptism/Christ is the spiritual reality of turning instead to God. Do we want new life to be guided in the way of Adam and Eve (the ways of the world) or from the beginning do we want our children to be guided in the ways of Christ?

Baptism doesn't accomplish that.

When following Christ, do we wait for someplace in the middle as some do today, do we wait until the end as some did in times past? Or do we follow Christ and baptize at the beginning of one's life in the Body of Christ? Catholics choose the beginning.

Catholics don't choose the beginning. The beginning is not when you're an infant. The beginning for Catholics, at least the symbolic manifestation, is Confirmation. Confirmation just confirms the baptism which, by itself, did not indicate repentance. Baptism can only indicate repentance when the person has the cognitive ability to repent.

 

[buttercup]

The gospels were written by men. Deuteronomy and Leviticus were written by men.

Also, you ignored everything I said.

If the scriptures AREN'T the foundation.... if men in robes can teach whatever ideas they want, even if they go against the bible, then why have the bible at all? We could throw it out completely, if we go by your 'logic.'

 

[Picaro]

you must not go to a protestant church?

A lot of them say it all the time, mostly when they're bashing Catholics or Catholicism, which they do because they don't like competition.

BS. They hardly ever bother with bringing up Catholicism; you're just self-obsessed is all. One of the basic beliefs of Baptists is that choosing to follow Jesus requires free will and the knowledge to make the choice, hence why they don't force baptism on children. It's pretty simple, except for those peddling agendas.

 

[there4eyeM]

As the entire message of Jesus centers upon choice, obviously such a choice as meaningful baptism can only be something a conscious, reasoning person does. Dedicating another person by a ceremony similar to baptism may be one thing, but adult choice is for adults.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

So you don't plant two crops in one field or wear garments made of two kinds of cloth. Do you kill sassy, disrespectful children?

the Old Testament is not law anymore which if you were a Christian you would know,

 

[Meriweather]

Baptism is for repentance not forgiveness.

Yes, repentance meaning turning away from one behavior (disobedience as demonstrated by Adam and Eve) to obedience (as demonstrated by Christ). The baby will be trained in obedience.

Baptism doesn't accomplish that.

Then you have little faith/belief in the power of the Holy Spirit.

Catholics don't choose the beginning. The beginning is not when you're an infant. The beginning for Catholics, at least the symbolic manifestation, is Confirmation. Confirmation just confirms the baptism which, by itself, did not indicate repentance. Baptism can only indicate repentance when the person has the cognitive ability to repent.

People don't choose when to be born either. The beginning is when the start. In Catholicism the start into the Body of Christ begins with baptism--and babies/children are welcome and are trained in the ways of Christ, trained in obedience. We trust in the Holy Spirit's work from within.

If others are drawn by the Holy Spirit to be wait and begin at a later time, then the Holy Spirit can also be trusted with that start, correct? No one has to tell someone else they are wrong. With the Holy Spirit's involvement, no wrong...just difference, an easy matter for the Holy Spirit to work with.

 

[LeroyDumonde]

Yes, repentance meaning turning away from one behavior (disobedience as demonstrated by Adam and Eve) to obedience (as demonstrated by Christ). The baby will be trained in obedience.

Which has nothing to do with baptism.

Then you have little faith/belief in the power of the Holy Spirit.

True, I don't believe in such a thing. But that's irrelevant. Baptism is for repentance and an infant lacks the mental capacity to repent. The Holy Spirit doesn't repent for people.

People don't choose when to be born either. The beginning is when the start. In Catholicism the start into the Body of Christ begins with baptism--and babies/children are welcome and are trained in the ways of Christ, trained in obedience. We trust in the Holy Spirit's work from within.

Then Catholics are wrong. Baptism is for the repentance of sin not for inducting people into the body of Christ who didn't choose to be induced.

If others are drawn by the Holy Spirit to be wait and begin at a later time, then the Holy Spirit can also be trusted with that start, correct? No one has to tell someone else they are wrong. With the Holy Spirit's involvement, no wrong...just difference, an easy matter for the Holy Spirit to work with.

None of this has anything to do with infant baptism. Can the Holy Spirit draw people to it only if they're baptized?

 

[Meriweather]

Can the Holy Spirit draw people to it only if they're baptized?

The point is the Holy Spirit's presence in Baptism.

 

[LeroyDumonde]

The point is the Holy Spirit's presence in Baptism.

What causes the Holy Spirit to be there? Is it the repentance or the water ritual?

 

[buttercup]

Unkotare - what did I say in post #159 that you disagree with? I never see you actually debate or discuss anything on the religion threads, you just give thumb downs and occasionally post one-line ad homs. If you think that infant baptism is correct, then present your case like everyone else has here, instead of lurking in the shadows thumbing down posts.

 

[Unkotare]

Thumbs down for any arrogant buffoons who presume to know the will of God and are thus superior to any other people of any other faiths. Believe what you believe and let others do the same. Leave it at that.

 

[buttercup]

Thumbs down for any arrogant buffoons who presume to know the will of God and are thus superior to any other people of any other faiths. Believe what you believe and let others do the same. Leave it at that.

So the bible doesn't matter? Churches can just make up whatever they want?

All of us on this thread who have said infant baptism is incorrect are pointing to what the bible teaches. The bible is supposed to be the foundation for doctrines and christian teachings.

As far as your "believe what you believe and let others do the same" comment --- sorry but as I said to surada, when millions of people are being misled in regard to the most important doctrine of all (salvation) then it would be wrong to NOT point out error.

The false teaching of infant baptism gives people a false sense of security. Many people who were baptized as babies falsely think they are redeemed even when they end up disbelieving the Gospel and not following Jesus. Truth matters.

 

[Unkotare]

So the bible doesn't matter? Churches can just make up whatever they want?
...

Believe what you want, but stop pretending you are God. Arrogant buffoon. You might be interested to know that you sound exactly like many Muslims I have known. Your feelings of superiority are misguided to say the least.

 

[buttercup]

Believe what you want, but stop pretending you are God. Arrogant buffoon. You might be interested to know that you sound exactly like many Muslims I have known. Your feelings of superiority are misguided to say the least.

None of us are God. Not the ones saying infant baptism is correct and not the ones saying it is incorrect.

AGAIN, we are pointing to scripture. The scriptures are the foundation, for Christian doctrine and teaching. Not man!

If you feel so strongly about this, refute what I've posted and present your case, in a clear reasonable way.

But by using scripture, not the thumbs down button.

 

[Unkotare]

None of us are God. ...

Then stop pretending you are.

 

[buttercup]

Then stop pretending you are.

Saying something is unbiblical is not "pretending to be God," and if it was, then nearly everyone in this section has pretended to be God, since debating doctrines and teachings happens around here every day, 24/7.

Again, it's not about what I, you, or anyone else here personally believes. It's about what is scriptural.

Are you a believer? Do you believe the bible?