Who Is Occupying Who's Land?

[Phoenall]

Challenger, et al,

I think you made an assumption here, that is not in evidence.

....People of Palestine actually decide they want a "State" and are willing to support a reasonable government.

There, you hit the nail right on the head. "...a reasonable government." Reasonable, in who's eyes? If the Palestinian people held free and fair elections, supervised by the UN and voted in a Hamas government, would the West recognise it? Oh wait, they did, in 2006; that worked well didn't it? Hamas were ready to talk then and America was ready to accept the result of the democratic vote. The US State Department got ready to recognise the new government...and then the Zionist lobby and their masters in Israel went into overdrive and we have the current mess. A "reasonable government" really means one who does what it's told by the Zionists, doesn't it?

(COMMENT)

What the rest of the world community recognizes or does not recognize is a matter of diplomacy. But what the US can recognize and support is a matter of law. And the law of the land is very specific relative to the a designated terrorist organization (ie HAMAS).

Legal Ramifications of Designation

1. It is unlawful for a person in the United States or subject to the jurisdiction of the United States to knowingly provide "material support or resources" to a designated FTO. (The term "material support or resources" is defined in 18 U.S.C. § 2339A(b)(1) as " any property, tangible or intangible, or service, including currency or monetary instruments or financial securities, financial services, lodging, training, expert advice or assistance, safehouses, false documentation or identification, communications equipment, facilities, weapons, lethal substances, explosives, personnel (1 or more individuals who maybe or include oneself), and transportation, except medicine or religious materials.” 18 U.S.C. § 2339A(b)(2) provides that for these purposes “the term ‘training’ means instruction or teaching designed to impart a specific skill, as opposed to general knowledge.” 18 U.S.C. § 2339A(b)(3) further provides that for these purposes the term ‘expert advice or assistance’ means advice or assistance derived from scientific, technical or other specialized knowledge.’’
2. Representatives and members of a designated FTO, if they are aliens, are inadmissible to and, in certain circumstances, removable from the United States (see 8 U.S.C. §§ 1182 (a)(3)(B)(i)(IV)-(V), 1227 (a)(1)(A)).
3. Any U.S. financial institution that becomes aware that it has possession of or control over funds in which a designated FTO or its agent has an interest must retain possession of or control over the funds and report the funds to the Office of Foreign Assets Control of the U.S. Department of the Treasury.

It had nothing to do with a "Zionist Lobby." The law has been in place since the 1970's and the rise of Palestinian Terrorism. The fact that the People of Palestine chose to elect (freely) a terrorist organization has automatic consequences. The Zionist Lobby had nothing to do with HAMAS being designated in 1997 as a terrorist group. And a decade later (2006), when it became a political entity by the peoples choice, the Counterintelligence Community threw the red flag. It is a matter of law, not politics. HAMAS earned its place on the designated terrorist list. And the People of Palestine have to accept the consequences of their actions. It is as simple as that.

As usual, the Palestinians shot themselves in the foot and now want to blame everyone else for their self-inflected wound except the ones responsible (the People of Palestine).

Most Respectfully,
R

Don't have access to US law books, which law is that exactly? In any event it is the Secretary of State who decides who goes on or comes off the list based on political expediency covered by a fig leaf of the Bureau of Counterterrorism.

This one

18 U.S. Code 2339A - Providing material support to terrorists LII Legal Information Institute


(a) Offense.— Whoever provides material support or resources or conceals or disguises the nature, location, source, or ownership of material support or resources, knowing or intending that they are to be used in preparation for, or in carrying out, a violation of section 32, 37, 81, 175, 229, 351, 831, 842 (m) or (n), 844 (f) or (i), 930 (c), 956, 1091, 1114, 1116, 1203, 1361, 1362, 1363, 1366, 1751, 1992, 2155, 2156, 2280, 2281, 2332, 2332a, 2332b, 2332f, 2340A, or 2442 of this title, section 236 of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 (42 U.S.C. 2284), section 46502 or 60123 (b) of title 49, or any offense listed in section 2332b (g)(5)(B) (except for sections 2339A and 2339B) or in preparation for, or in carrying out, the concealment of an escape from the commission of any such violation, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 15 years, or both, and, if the death of any person results, shall be imprisoned for any term of years or for life. A violation of this section may be prosecuted in any Federal judicial district in which the underlying offense was committed, or in any other Federal judicial district as provided by law.
Pub. L. 103–322, title XII, § 120005(a),Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2022; amended Pub. L. 104–132, title III, § 323,Apr. 24, 1996, 110 Stat. 1255; Pub. L. 104–294, title VI, §§ 601(b)(2), (s)(2), (3), 604 (b)(5),Oct. 11, 1996, 110 Stat. 3498, 3502, 3506; Pub. L. 107–56, title VIII, §§ 805(a), 810(c), 811(f),Oct. 26, 2001, 115 Stat. 377, 380, 381; Pub. L. 107–197, title III, § 301(c),June 25, 2002, 116 Stat. 728; Pub. L. 107–273, div. B, title IV, § 4002(a)(7), (c)(1), (e)(11),Nov. 2, 2002, 116 Stat. 1807, 1808, 1811; Pub. L. 108–458, title VI, § 6603(a)(2), (b),Dec. 17, 2004, 118 Stat. 3762; Pub. L. 109–177, title I, § 110(b)(3)(B),Mar. 9, 2006, 120 Stat. 208; Pub. L. 111–122, § 3(d),Dec. 22, 2009, 123 Stat. 3481.)
Amendments

2009—Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 111–122inserted “, 1091” after “956” and substituted “, 2340A, or 2442” for “, or 2340A”.
2006—Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 109–177struck out “1993,” after “1992,”.
2004—Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 108–458, § 6603(a)(2)(B), which directed amendment of this section by inserting “or any offense listed in section 2332b (g)(5)(B) (except for sections 2339A and 2339B)” after “section 60123 (b) of title 49,”, was executed by making the insertion in subsec. (a) after “section 46502 or 60123 (b) of title 49,” to reflect the probable intent of Congress.
Pub. L. 108–458, § 6603(a)(2)(A), struck out “or” before “section 46502”.
Subsec. (b). Pub. L. 108–458, § 6603(b), reenacted heading without change and amended text generally. Prior to amendment, text read as follows: “In this section, the term ‘material support or resources’ means currency or monetary instruments or financial securities, financial services, lodging, training, expert advice or assistance, safehouses, false documentation or identification, communications equipment, facilities, weapons, lethal substances, explosives, personnel, transportation, and other physical assets, except medicine or religious materials.”
2002—Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 107–273, § 4002(a)(7), (e)(11), struck out “2332c,” after “2332b,” and substituted “of an escape” for “or an escape”.
Pub. L. 107–197inserted “2332f,” before “or 2340A”.
Subsec. (b). Pub. L. 107–273, § 4002(c)(1), repealed amendment by Pub. L. 104–294, § 601(b)(2). See 1996 Amendment note below.
2001—Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 107–56, § 811(f), inserted “or attempts or conspires to do such an act,” before “shall be fined”.
Pub. L. 107–56, § 810(c)(1), substituted “15 years” for “10 years”.
Pub. L. 107–56, § 810(c)(2), which directed substitution of “, and, if the death of any person results, shall be imprisoned for any term of years or for life.” for period, was executed by making the substitution for the period at end of the first sentence to reflect the probable intent of Congress and the intervening amendment by section 805(a)(1)(F) ofPub. L. 107–56. See below.
Pub. L. 107–56, § 805(a)(1)(F), inserted at end “A violation of this section may be prosecuted in any Federal judicial district in which the underlying offense was committed, or in any other Federal judicial district as provided by law.”
Pub. L. 107–56, §§ 805(a)(1)(A)–(E), struck out “, within the United States,” after “Whoever”, and inserted “229,” after “175,”, “1993,” after “1992,”, “, section 236 of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 (42 U.S.C. 2284),” after “2340A of this title”, and “or 60123(b)” after “section 46502”.
Subsec. (b). Pub. L. 107–56, § 805(a)(2), substituted “or monetary instruments or financial securities” for “or other financial securities” and inserted “expert advice or assistance,” after “training,”.
1996—Pub. L. 104–294, § 604(b)(5), amended directory language of Pub. L. 103–322, § 120005(a), which enacted this section.
Pub. L. 104–132amended section generally, reenacting section catchline without change and redesignating provisions which detailed what constitutes offense, formerly contained in subsec. (b), assubsec. (a), inserting references to sections 37, 81, 175, 831, 842, 956, 1362, 1366, 2155, 2156, 2332, 2332a, 2332b, and 2340A of this title, striking out references to sections 36, 2331, and 2339 of this title, redesignating provisions which define “material support or resource”, formerly contained in subsec. (a), assubsec. (b), substituting provisions excepting medicine or religious materials from definition for provisions excepting humanitarian assistance to persons not directly involved in violations, and struck out subsec. (c) which authorized investigations into possible violations, except activities involving First Amendment rights.
Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 104–294, § 601(s)(2), (3), inserted “930(c),” before “956,”, “1992,” before “2155,”, “2332c,” before “or 2340A of this title”, and “or an escape” after “concealment”.
Subsec. (b). Pub. L. 104–294, § 601(b)(2), which directed substitution of “2332” for “2331”, “2332a” for “2339”, “37” for “36”, and “or an escape” for “of an escape” and which could not be executed after the general amendment by Pub. L. 104–132, was repealed by Pub. L. 107–273, § 4002(c)(1). See above.
Effective Date of 2002 Amendment

Pub. L. 107–273, div. B, title IV, § 4002(c)(1),Nov. 2, 2002, 116 Stat. 1808, provided that the amendment made by section 4002 (c)(1) is effective Oct. 11, 1996.
Effective Date of 1996 Amendment

Amendment by section 604(b)(5) ofPub. L. 104–294effective Sept. 13, 1994, see section 604(d) ofPub. L. 104–294, set out as a note under section 13 of this title.

 

[Challenger]

Challenger, et al,

I think you made an assumption here, that is not in evidence.

....People of Palestine actually decide they want a "State" and are willing to support a reasonable government.

There, you hit the nail right on the head. "...a reasonable government." Reasonable, in who's eyes? If the Palestinian people held free and fair elections, supervised by the UN and voted in a Hamas government, would the West recognise it? Oh wait, they did, in 2006; that worked well didn't it? Hamas were ready to talk then and America was ready to accept the result of the democratic vote. The US State Department got ready to recognise the new government...and then the Zionist lobby and their masters in Israel went into overdrive and we have the current mess. A "reasonable government" really means one who does what it's told by the Zionists, doesn't it?

(COMMENT)

What the rest of the world community recognizes or does not recognize is a matter of diplomacy. But what the US can recognize and support is a matter of law. And the law of the land is very specific relative to the a designated terrorist organization (ie HAMAS).

Legal Ramifications of Designation

1. It is unlawful for a person in the United States or subject to the jurisdiction of the United States to knowingly provide "material support or resources" to a designated FTO. (The term "material support or resources" is defined in 18 U.S.C. § 2339A(b)(1) as " any property, tangible or intangible, or service, including currency or monetary instruments or financial securities, financial services, lodging, training, expert advice or assistance, safehouses, false documentation or identification, communications equipment, facilities, weapons, lethal substances, explosives, personnel (1 or more individuals who maybe or include oneself), and transportation, except medicine or religious materials.” 18 U.S.C. § 2339A(b)(2) provides that for these purposes “the term ‘training’ means instruction or teaching designed to impart a specific skill, as opposed to general knowledge.” 18 U.S.C. § 2339A(b)(3) further provides that for these purposes the term ‘expert advice or assistance’ means advice or assistance derived from scientific, technical or other specialized knowledge.’’
2. Representatives and members of a designated FTO, if they are aliens, are inadmissible to and, in certain circumstances, removable from the United States (see 8 U.S.C. §§ 1182 (a)(3)(B)(i)(IV)-(V), 1227 (a)(1)(A)).
3. Any U.S. financial institution that becomes aware that it has possession of or control over funds in which a designated FTO or its agent has an interest must retain possession of or control over the funds and report the funds to the Office of Foreign Assets Control of the U.S. Department of the Treasury.

It had nothing to do with a "Zionist Lobby." The law has been in place since the 1970's and the rise of Palestinian Terrorism. The fact that the People of Palestine chose to elect (freely) a terrorist organization has automatic consequences. The Zionist Lobby had nothing to do with HAMAS being designated in 1997 as a terrorist group. And a decade later (2006), when it became a political entity by the peoples choice, the Counterintelligence Community threw the red flag. It is a matter of law, not politics. HAMAS earned its place on the designated terrorist list. And the People of Palestine have to accept the consequences of their actions. It is as simple as that.

As usual, the Palestinians shot themselves in the foot and now want to blame everyone else for their self-inflected wound except the ones responsible (the People of Palestine).

Most Respectfully,
R

Don't have access to US law books, which law is that exactly? In any event it is the Secretary of State who decides who goes on or comes off the list based on political expediency covered by a fig leaf of the Bureau of Counterterrorism.

This one

18 U.S. Code 2339A - Providing material support to terrorists LII Legal Information Institute


(a) Offense.— Whoever provides material support or resources or conceals or disguises the nature, location, source, or ownership of material support or resources, knowing or intending that they are to be used in preparation for, or in carrying out, a violation of section 32, 37, 81, 175, 229, 351, 831, 842 (m) or (n), 844 (f) or (i), 930 (c), 956, 1091, 1114, 1116, 1203, 1361, 1362, 1363, 1366, 1751, 1992, 2155, 2156, 2280, 2281, 2332, 2332a, 2332b, 2332f, 2340A, or 2442 of this title, section 236 of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 (42 U.S.C. 2284), section 46502 or 60123 (b) of title 49, or any offense listed in section 2332b (g)(5)(B) (except for sections 2339A and 2339B) or in preparation for, or in carrying out, the concealment of an escape from the commission of any such violation, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 15 years, or both, and, if the death of any person results, shall be imprisoned for any term of years or for life. A violation of this section may be prosecuted in any Federal judicial district in which the underlying offense was committed, or in any other Federal judicial district as provided by law.
Pub. L. 103–322, title XII, § 120005(a),Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2022; amended Pub. L. 104–132, title III, § 323,Apr. 24, 1996, 110 Stat. 1255; Pub. L. 104–294, title VI, §§ 601(b)(2), (s)(2), (3), 604 (b)(5),Oct. 11, 1996, 110 Stat. 3498, 3502, 3506; Pub. L. 107–56, title VIII, §§ 805(a), 810(c), 811(f),Oct. 26, 2001, 115 Stat. 377, 380, 381; Pub. L. 107–197, title III, § 301(c),June 25, 2002, 116 Stat. 728; Pub. L. 107–273, div. B, title IV, § 4002(a)(7), (c)(1), (e)(11),Nov. 2, 2002, 116 Stat. 1807, 1808, 1811; Pub. L. 108–458, title VI, § 6603(a)(2), (b),Dec. 17, 2004, 118 Stat. 3762; Pub. L. 109–177, title I, § 110(b)(3)(B),Mar. 9, 2006, 120 Stat. 208; Pub. L. 111–122, § 3(d),Dec. 22, 2009, 123 Stat. 3481.)
Amendments

2009—Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 111–122inserted “, 1091” after “956” and substituted “, 2340A, or 2442” for “, or 2340A”.
2006—Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 109–177struck out “1993,” after “1992,”.
2004—Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 108–458, § 6603(a)(2)(B), which directed amendment of this section by inserting “or any offense listed in section 2332b (g)(5)(B) (except for sections 2339A and 2339B)” after “section 60123 (b) of title 49,”, was executed by making the insertion in subsec. (a) after “section 46502 or 60123 (b) of title 49,” to reflect the probable intent of Congress.
Pub. L. 108–458, § 6603(a)(2)(A), struck out “or” before “section 46502”.
Subsec. (b). Pub. L. 108–458, § 6603(b), reenacted heading without change and amended text generally. Prior to amendment, text read as follows: “In this section, the term ‘material support or resources’ means currency or monetary instruments or financial securities, financial services, lodging, training, expert advice or assistance, safehouses, false documentation or identification, communications equipment, facilities, weapons, lethal substances, explosives, personnel, transportation, and other physical assets, except medicine or religious materials.”
2002—Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 107–273, § 4002(a)(7), (e)(11), struck out “2332c,” after “2332b,” and substituted “of an escape” for “or an escape”.
Pub. L. 107–197inserted “2332f,” before “or 2340A”.
Subsec. (b). Pub. L. 107–273, § 4002(c)(1), repealed amendment by Pub. L. 104–294, § 601(b)(2). See 1996 Amendment note below.
2001—Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 107–56, § 811(f), inserted “or attempts or conspires to do such an act,” before “shall be fined”.
Pub. L. 107–56, § 810(c)(1), substituted “15 years” for “10 years”.
Pub. L. 107–56, § 810(c)(2), which directed substitution of “, and, if the death of any person results, shall be imprisoned for any term of years or for life.” for period, was executed by making the substitution for the period at end of the first sentence to reflect the probable intent of Congress and the intervening amendment by section 805(a)(1)(F) ofPub. L. 107–56. See below.
Pub. L. 107–56, § 805(a)(1)(F), inserted at end “A violation of this section may be prosecuted in any Federal judicial district in which the underlying offense was committed, or in any other Federal judicial district as provided by law.”
Pub. L. 107–56, §§ 805(a)(1)(A)–(E), struck out “, within the United States,” after “Whoever”, and inserted “229,” after “175,”, “1993,” after “1992,”, “, section 236 of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 (42 U.S.C. 2284),” after “2340A of this title”, and “or 60123(b)” after “section 46502”.
Subsec. (b). Pub. L. 107–56, § 805(a)(2), substituted “or monetary instruments or financial securities” for “or other financial securities” and inserted “expert advice or assistance,” after “training,”.
1996—Pub. L. 104–294, § 604(b)(5), amended directory language of Pub. L. 103–322, § 120005(a), which enacted this section.
Pub. L. 104–132amended section generally, reenacting section catchline without change and redesignating provisions which detailed what constitutes offense, formerly contained in subsec. (b), assubsec. (a), inserting references to sections 37, 81, 175, 831, 842, 956, 1362, 1366, 2155, 2156, 2332, 2332a, 2332b, and 2340A of this title, striking out references to sections 36, 2331, and 2339 of this title, redesignating provisions which define “material support or resource”, formerly contained in subsec. (a), assubsec. (b), substituting provisions excepting medicine or religious materials from definition for provisions excepting humanitarian assistance to persons not directly involved in violations, and struck out subsec. (c) which authorized investigations into possible violations, except activities involving First Amendment rights.
Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 104–294, § 601(s)(2), (3), inserted “930(c),” before “956,”, “1992,” before “2155,”, “2332c,” before “or 2340A of this title”, and “or an escape” after “concealment”.
Subsec. (b). Pub. L. 104–294, § 601(b)(2), which directed substitution of “2332” for “2331”, “2332a” for “2339”, “37” for “36”, and “or an escape” for “of an escape” and which could not be executed after the general amendment by Pub. L. 104–132, was repealed by Pub. L. 107–273, § 4002(c)(1). See above.
Effective Date of 2002 Amendment

Pub. L. 107–273, div. B, title IV, § 4002(c)(1),Nov. 2, 2002, 116 Stat. 1808, provided that the amendment made by section 4002 (c)(1) is effective Oct. 11, 1996.
Effective Date of 1996 Amendment

Amendment by section 604(b)(5) ofPub. L. 104–294effective Sept. 13, 1994, see section 604(d) ofPub. L. 104–294, set out as a note under section 13 of this title.

Thanks for your input but RoocoR has already told me this and we've both moved on.

 

[Phoenall]

I've been asking you the same thing for a while now

I just post fact with sources. You post bullshit. That's the difference.

Monti, even you know that's not true. Your posts are here for everyone to see, so you cannot get away with a lie like this.
You post Arab propaganda and you constantly distort history. I am the one who posts facts with links. You are full of shit and everyone here knows it.

Is that another Hasbara technique? Just call another poster a liar and repeat enough times? The old Goebells trick.

You never post a fact. You never provide backup because there isn't any except from propaganda sites.

I only post fact with backup and usual the backup are source documents from official archives. It is you and your Israel Firster friends that just repeat Zionist propaganda that has been discredited nearly everywhere.

And as you have been shown many of your documents are not legally acceptable or verifiable. Backup means you use two distinct sources separated by cultural differences that say the same thing. Not a source that says " an unnamed Palestinian source said "

I have been shown nothing. Documents from the UN Archives are not only acceptable, they have been verified as either transcripts of the originals or true copies of the originals held in the UN archives.

"Backup means you use two distinct sources separated by cultural differences that say the same thing."

You just love to make things up, don't you. You continue to embarrass yourself with your crazy notions.

They may be transcripts of the originals but this does not mean they are legal documents, any more than a letter to Ban wishing him Happy Birthday is a legal document.

Not at all using only one source is having no backup, as in robbing a bank without a getaway driver waiting outside. So where is your backup to the letters between interested parties entering into LAW ?

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I've never actually sat in any of the determination meetings. So, up front, I cannot tell you how they actually establish the list.

Rocco, you have never specified what criteria these clowns use to justify their terrorist name calling thing.

(COMMENT)

I do know that recommendations for inclusion on the list, must --- as a minimum, demonstrate how a candidate meets the following criteria established by law.

Definitions of Terrorism in the U.S. Code

18 U.S.C. § 2331 defines "international terrorism" and "domestic terrorism" for purposes of Chapter 113B of the Code, entitled "Terrorism”:

"International terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:​

• • Involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
  • Appear to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
  • Occur primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S., or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.*

"Domestic terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:​

• • Involve acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
  • Appear intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination. or kidnapping; and
  • Occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S.

18 U.S.C. § 2332b defines the term "federal crime of terrorism" as an offense that:​

• • Is calculated to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion, or to retaliate against government conduct; and
  • Is a violation of one of several listed statutes, including § 930(c) (relating to killing or attempted killing during an attack on a federal facility with a dangerous weapon); and § 1114 (relating to killing or attempted killing of officers and employees of the U.S.).

Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (1978)(FISA) defines "international terrorism" in a nearly identical way, replacing "primarily" outside the US with "totally" outside the US --- 50 U.S.C. § 1801(c).

(c)“International terrorism” means activities that—

(1) involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State, or that would be a criminal violation if committed within the jurisdiction of the United States or any State;
(2) appear to be intended—

(A) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(B) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(C) to affect the conduct of a government by assassination or kidnapping; and​

(3) occur totally outside the United States, or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to coerce or intimidate, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.​

However, I am led to believe that there are other political and diplomatic considerations that also enter into the equation. And, there are at times, CONFIDENTIAL determinations that find that it may not be in the best interest of the US to make a public or open determination that might hamper the detection, exploitation and neutralization of such a target. I just know that --- as a minimum, the above criteria must be addressed before a recommendation would be favorably put forward for even consideration.

Most Respectfully,
R

Still nothing, huh?

All spelt out in plain English, is that were you are having the problems reading English.

 

[Phoenall]

The Koran was altered even as it was being recited by the mentally defective camel herder. His words were written down by scribes and then collated into the Koran. Most of the Koran is stolen from the Bible and Torah by Mohamed, then twisted to suit his agenda.
The Bible was written by many people over a long period of time based on the teachings of Christ and his disciples. Jesus did not write any of the Bible as he was dead long before it was written. The Torah again was written by many people over the years and was not written by Moses, much of it predates Moses by many centuries.
The Koran states that Jews and Christians were originally declared as "people of the book" only to later be called apes and pigs and to be seen as enemies of islam. This is why it commands the muslims to kill them when they find them. Because the person reciting the Koran was simplistic his rendition was also simplistic and based on single verses.

I saw a muslim scholar walk of if anger and hate when it was shown that the Koran taught terrorism, and he blamed the Jews for not letting him know.

You are wrong, because Mohammad PBUH was illiterate and the He PBUH recite Al-Quran, no one else can recite at the time in Arab

The Koran was altered even as it was being recited by the mentally defective camel herder. His words were written down by scribes and then collated into the Koran. Most of the Koran is stolen from the Bible and Torah by Mohamed, then twisted to suit his agenda.
The Bible was written by many people over a long period of time based on the teachings of Christ and his disciples. Jesus did not write any of the Bible as he was dead long before it was written. The Torah again was written by many people over the years and was not written by Moses, much of it predates Moses by many centuries.
The Koran states that Jews and Christians were originally declared as "people of the book" only to later be called apes and pigs and to be seen as enemies of islam. This is why it commands the muslims to kill them when they find them. Because the person reciting the Koran was simplistic his rendition was also simplistic and based on single verses.

I saw a muslim scholar walk of if anger and hate when it was shown that the Koran taught terrorism, and he blamed the Jews for not letting him know.

You are wrong, because Mohammad PBUH was illiterate and He PBUH recite Al-Quran, no one else can recite at the time in Arab like him PBUH. Means he PBUH can not steal from other holly books but His PBUH message is as same as his PBUH predecessor in the line of prophets.But Prophet Mohammad PBUH was the AUTHOR of book of Allah(God) Al-Quran.
First there are no such a message killed Jews or Christian if there is then it is also apply on Muslim too, especially those who proved hypocrites not beleaver of the Holy Books.
As you know always hypocrites cause trouble to Prophets Like hypocrites jews cause trouble to Moses PBUH and Jesus PBUH.
Please don't be ignorant.

Try this for size then

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

What ever in AL-Quran is "word of Allah(God)" Prophet Mohammad PBUH just Passed on to us, as I reply to you in previous two posts, please follow the advise see some muslim near you to correct your misunderstanding or may be you are reading wrong book.

Like all holy books the Koran is the word of man, not god. It was a mentally defective man that recited the Koran in the 7c, a man that had frontal lobe epilepsy that manifests as delusions, hearing voices and seeing visions. No other person saw or heard these visitations, and as the hadiths tell us Mohamed often recited a different version on the verses on two seperate days. The consensus of opinion is that one of his sex slaves a Jewish girl told him of the Torah and its teachings and he used her stories as the basis for the Koran. He added verses extolling violence and murder because that is what most arabs of the time understood. One arab group worshipped 3 goddesses that manifested as cranes so he introduced them as allahs wives in one section of the Koran. He later claimed that this was given to him by the devil, but did not take them out and have them changed. The Koran is full of mistakes from a god that is supposed to be omnipotent like seminal fluid coming from the spine.

I have seen many muslim clerics in my life and not one has been able to explain the satanic verses, the many mistakes and the violence. I had one who stated that Mohamed had never killed a man in his life, then I showed him the Bukhari hadiths that show he killed many in clod blood. Another denied that he was an Incestuous paedophile until he read the Bukhari hadiths that show he married his brothers 9 year old daughter after changing the laws to allow him to do so.

So it is you that needs to get your brain into gear and read the Koran and hadiths properly to see that it is plagiarism and a terrorist manual.

If you don't beleave in any holy book means you will remain arrogant or ignorant .
I also beleave that Mohammad PBUH never killed any thing.
Mohammad PBUH married to his friend's 9 years old daughter.
I will advise you again that please don't writ misunderstood story, find some Muslim scholar near you and take 8 C Al-Quran and these hadiths with you and correct your self.

All the details come from the Koran and hadiths, so are you saying the Koran is lying and that Mohamed lied in the hadiths. As I said I have spoken to Islamic clerics and they did not know what was written in the Koran and hadiths because they had been brainwashed into believing the spoken word only.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I've never actually sat in any of the determination meetings. So, up front, I cannot tell you how they actually establish the list.

Rocco, you have never specified what criteria these clowns use to justify their terrorist name calling thing.

(COMMENT)

I do know that recommendations for inclusion on the list, must --- as a minimum, demonstrate how a candidate meets the following criteria established by law.

Definitions of Terrorism in the U.S. Code

18 U.S.C. § 2331 defines "international terrorism" and "domestic terrorism" for purposes of Chapter 113B of the Code, entitled "Terrorism”:

"International terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:​

• • Involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
  • Appear to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
  • Occur primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S., or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.*

"Domestic terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:​

• • Involve acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
  • Appear intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination. or kidnapping; and
  • Occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S.

18 U.S.C. § 2332b defines the term "federal crime of terrorism" as an offense that:​

• • Is calculated to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion, or to retaliate against government conduct; and
  • Is a violation of one of several listed statutes, including § 930(c) (relating to killing or attempted killing during an attack on a federal facility with a dangerous weapon); and § 1114 (relating to killing or attempted killing of officers and employees of the U.S.).

Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (1978)(FISA) defines "international terrorism" in a nearly identical way, replacing "primarily" outside the US with "totally" outside the US --- 50 U.S.C. § 1801(c).

(c)“International terrorism” means activities that—

(1) involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State, or that would be a criminal violation if committed within the jurisdiction of the United States or any State;
(2) appear to be intended—

(A) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(B) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(C) to affect the conduct of a government by assassination or kidnapping; and​

(3) occur totally outside the United States, or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to coerce or intimidate, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.​

However, I am led to believe that there are other political and diplomatic considerations that also enter into the equation. And, there are at times, CONFIDENTIAL determinations that find that it may not be in the best interest of the US to make a public or open determination that might hamper the detection, exploitation and neutralization of such a target. I just know that --- as a minimum, the above criteria must be addressed before a recommendation would be favorably put forward for even consideration.

Most Respectfully,
R

Still nothing, huh?

All spelt out in plain English, is that were you are having the problems reading English.

How does that apply to people defending their country?

 

[Phoenall]

....People of Palestine actually decide they want a "State" and are willing to support a reasonable government.

There, you hit the nail right on the head. "...a reasonable government." Reasonable, in who's eyes? If the Palestinian people held free and fair elections, supervised by the UN and voted in a Hamas government, would the West recognise it? Oh wait, they did, in 2006; that worked well didn't it? Hamas were ready to talk then and America was ready to accept the result of the democratic vote. The US State Department got ready to recognise the new government...and then the Zionist lobby and their masters in Israel went into overdrive and we have the current mess. A "reasonable government" really means one who does what it's told by the Zionists, doesn't it?

Link to show that hamas was prepared to talk on matters of peace and mutual borders, and not some partisan source either that matches your agenda

For starters it was a partisan source as the organisers of the conference are known and proven ANTI SEMITIC JEW HATERS. He lied in his opening sentence, and never stopped lying till the end. As for the water the Israelis get 17 litres a day because of good recycling, the arab muslims get 30 litres and steal 10 tines this amount. The P.A. should pay its electricity bills first or find itself cut off until it pays in full.

hamas still operates a 3 NOS system and have only this week re-iterated that they will never negotiate a peace with Israel, instead they will fight to the last person to force the Jews out of what they see as Palestinian land.

 

[Phoenall]

The Europeans of the Jewish faith that went to Israel starting in the late 1800s have nothing to do with the ancient Jews that stole the land from the Samartins, Canaens etc.

Did you purposely miss the point? Or the history of the area?

Palestine didn't exist until relatively recent population growth forced (mostly Jordanians) to migrate. But that is long after the fact. Meanwhile the real children and inhabitants of the region have been obscured by anti-Semite academia. Prove me wrong!

And who are the Samartins? You mean the Samaritans?

I hope you have an open mind about such things, as much can be poured in.

1. "Judaism in Jerusalem pre-dated Christianity in Bethlehem by about a 1000 years, both of which pre-dated Islam in the region by a long shot."

So what? People change religions all the time. If a group of people in Kenya convert to mos maiorum it does not give them the right to settle in Rome and declare themselves a state.

2. The "real children and inhabitants of the region" are the people (descendants) that have lived in the region for the last 4,000-5,000 years. Converting to the most convenient religion does not change the people.

3. "Palestine didn't exist until relatively recent population growth forced (mostly Jordanians) to migrate."

As usual, Zionist horseshit.

"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921

Once again an ANTI SEMITIC JEW HATRED piece of garbage that you have been told about is being used.]]

The facts as written by a non partisan source

Year	Jews	Christians	Muslims	Total
First half 1st century CE	Majority	–	–	~2,500
5th century	Minority	Majority	–	>1st century
End 12th century	Minority	Minority	Majority	>225
14th century before Black Death	Minority	Minority	Majority	225
14th century after Black Death	Minority	Minority	Majority	150
1533–1539	5	6	145	157
1690–1691	2	11	219	232
1800	7	22	246	275
1890	43	57	432	532
1914	94	70	525	689
1922	84	71	589	752
1931	175	89	760	1,033
1947	630	143	1,181	1,970
Figures in thousands. Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

[THEAD] [/THEAD]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Phoenall]

"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants. ...

"So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population." Winnie Churchill.

The Mandatory Interim Report, quoted above, was written in 1921, Churchill made the politically motivated statement (which was a lie) in 1939 to counter the Government's insistence that Jewish immigration to Palestine should be moderated to mitigate the local population's demonstrations against the takeover of their land. A political statement is far less reliable than official Government reports. If you would do more research you probably would not just spout nonsense without understanding the context. Churchill was responding to this:

"'His Majesty's Government do not [..] find anything in the Mandate or in subsequent Statements of Policy to support the view that the establishment of a Jewish National Home in Palestine cannot be effected unless immigration is allowed to continue indefinitely. If immigration has an adverse effect on the economic position in the country, it should clearly be restricted; and equally, if it has a seriously damaging effect on the political position in the country, that is a factor that should not be ignored. Although it is not difficult to contend that the large number of Jewish immigrants who have been admitted so far have been absorbed economically, the fear of the Arabs that this influx will continue indefinitely until the Jewish population is in a position to dominate them has produced consequences which are extremely grave for Jews and Arabs alike and for the peace and prosperity of Palestine."

White Paper of 1939

The Avalon Project British White Paper of 1939

Did you read your link that destroyed so many of your claims about Israel and the Jews, things like this


"Unauthorized statements have been made to the effect that the purpose in view is to create a wholly Jewish Palestine. Phrases have been used such as that `Palestine is to become as Jewish as England is English.' His Majesty's Government regard any such expectation as impracticable and have no such aim in view. Nor have they at any time contemplated .... the disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language or culture in Palestine. They would draw attention to the fact that the terms of the (Balfour) Declaration referred to do not contemplate that Palestine as a whole should be converted into a Jewish National Home, but that such a Home should be founded IN PALESTINE."

This community, then, with its town and country population, its political, religious and social organisations, its own language, its own customs, its own life, has in fact `national' characteristics. When it is asked what is meant by the development of the Jewish National Home in Palestine, it may be answered that it is not the imposition of a Jewish nationality upon the inhabitants of Palestine as a whole, but the further development of the existing Jewish community, with the assistance of Jews in other parts of the world, in order that it may become a centre in which the Jewish people as a whole may take, on grounds of religion and race, an interest and pride. But in order that this community should have the best prospect of free development and provide a full opportunity for the Jewish people to display its capacities, it is essential that it should know that it is in Palestine as of right and not on sufferance. That is the reason why it is necessary that the existence of a Jewish National Home in Palestine should be internationally guaranteed, and that it should be formally recognised to rest upon ancient historic connection

Under Article 6 of the Mandate, the Administration of Palestine, "while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced," is required to "facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions." Beyond this, the extent to which Jewish immigration into Palestine is to be permitted is nowhere defined in the Mandate. But in the Command Paper of 1922 it was laid down that for the fulfilment of the policy of establishing a Jewish National Home:
"it is necessary that the Jewish commun ity in Palestine should be able to increase its numbers by immigration. This immigration cannot be so great in volume as to exceed whatever may be the economic capacity of the country at the time to absorb new arrivals. It is essential to ensure that the immigrants should not be a burden upon the people of Palestine as a whole, and that they should not deprive any section of the present population of their employment."

The Administration of Palestine is required, under Article 6 of the Mandate, "while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced," to encourage "close settlement by Jews on the land," and no restriction has been imposed hitherto on the transfer of land from Arabs to Jews. The Reports of several expert Commissions have indictaed that, owing to the natural growth of the Arab population and the steady sale in recent years of Arab land to Jews, there is now in certain areas no room for further transfers of Arab land, whilst in some other areas such transfers of land must be restricted if Arab cultivators are to maintain their existing standard of life and a considerable landless Arab population is not soon to be created. In these circumstances, the High Commissioner will be given general powers to prohibit and regulate transfers of land. These powers will date from the publication of this statement of policy and the High Commissioner will retain them throughout the transitional period.

 

[Phoenall]

...Try looking in the mirror for the thick one, the latin kingdom of Jerusalem was a city state invented by some crusaders. Judea was in existence before the Roman Empire was thought of. And for your Information Judea was in Palestine.

Stop press! Phoney recognises the existance of Palestine 1000's of years ago

Wrong Judea existed in common parlance right up to the present day, as my link shows. Palestine came into being under Roman occupation. The area know as Palestine included what was known as Judea up to the present day.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I've never actually sat in any of the determination meetings. So, up front, I cannot tell you how they actually establish the list.

Rocco, you have never specified what criteria these clowns use to justify their terrorist name calling thing.

(COMMENT)

I do know that recommendations for inclusion on the list, must --- as a minimum, demonstrate how a candidate meets the following criteria established by law.

Definitions of Terrorism in the U.S. Code

18 U.S.C. § 2331 defines "international terrorism" and "domestic terrorism" for purposes of Chapter 113B of the Code, entitled "Terrorism”:

"International terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:​

• • Involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
  • Appear to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
  • Occur primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S., or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.*

"Domestic terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:​

• • Involve acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
  • Appear intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination. or kidnapping; and
  • Occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S.

18 U.S.C. § 2332b defines the term "federal crime of terrorism" as an offense that:​

• • Is calculated to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion, or to retaliate against government conduct; and
  • Is a violation of one of several listed statutes, including § 930(c) (relating to killing or attempted killing during an attack on a federal facility with a dangerous weapon); and § 1114 (relating to killing or attempted killing of officers and employees of the U.S.).

Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (1978)(FISA) defines "international terrorism" in a nearly identical way, replacing "primarily" outside the US with "totally" outside the US --- 50 U.S.C. § 1801(c).

(c)“International terrorism” means activities that—

(1) involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State, or that would be a criminal violation if committed within the jurisdiction of the United States or any State;
(2) appear to be intended—

(A) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(B) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(C) to affect the conduct of a government by assassination or kidnapping; and​

(3) occur totally outside the United States, or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to coerce or intimidate, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.​

However, I am led to believe that there are other political and diplomatic considerations that also enter into the equation. And, there are at times, CONFIDENTIAL determinations that find that it may not be in the best interest of the US to make a public or open determination that might hamper the detection, exploitation and neutralization of such a target. I just know that --- as a minimum, the above criteria must be addressed before a recommendation would be favorably put forward for even consideration.

Most Respectfully,
R

Still nothing, huh?

All spelt out in plain English, is that were you are having the problems reading English.

How does that apply to people defending their country?

It means they are terrorists if they act in any way like the definitions given. It is up to each individual nation to decide what they see as terrorist actions. Would you consider it terrorism if some hard core communists decided they wanted your state to be communist and they started cutting peoples heads off and raping children to force the population to give in to their wishes.
While hamas targets children and uses civilians to protect its rocket launchers they will be for ever terrorist scum, neither of which can be said to be defending their country, as they don't have a country.

 

[MJB12741]

Answer, : AL-Quran is not written by any one, AL-Quran is sent By Allah(God) and Received by Prophet Mohammad PBUH, like Bible(Ingeel) By Jesus PBUH and Tourat by Moses PBUH. AL-Quran is talking about a lot issues, you are only coating, what you attract as a common reader, but in my point of view AL-Quran is also saying that Jews and Christian are your brothers because they also own book of Allah.
But I will advise to you please see some Muslim scholar near around you to correct misunderstanding.

The Koran was altered even as it was being recited by the mentally defective camel herder. His words were written down by scribes and then collated into the Koran. Most of the Koran is stolen from the Bible and Torah by Mohamed, then twisted to suit his agenda.
The Bible was written by many people over a long period of time based on the teachings of Christ and his disciples. Jesus did not write any of the Bible as he was dead long before it was written. The Torah again was written by many people over the years and was not written by Moses, much of it predates Moses by many centuries.
The Koran states that Jews and Christians were originally declared as "people of the book" only to later be called apes and pigs and to be seen as enemies of islam. This is why it commands the muslims to kill them when they find them. Because the person reciting the Koran was simplistic his rendition was also simplistic and based on single verses.

I saw a muslim scholar walk of if anger and hate when it was shown that the Koran taught terrorism, and he blamed the Jews for not letting him know.

You are wrong, because Mohammad PBUH was illiterate and the He PBUH recite Al-Quran, no one else can recite at the time in Arab

Answer, : AL-Quran is not written by any one, AL-Quran is sent By Allah(God) and Received by Prophet Mohammad PBUH, like Bible(Ingeel) By Jesus PBUH and Tourat by Moses PBUH. AL-Quran is talking about a lot issues, you are only coating, what you attract as a common reader, but in my point of view AL-Quran is also saying that Jews and Christian are your brothers because they also own book of Allah.
But I will advise to you please see some Muslim scholar near around you to correct misunderstanding.

The Koran was altered even as it was being recited by the mentally defective camel herder. His words were written down by scribes and then collated into the Koran. Most of the Koran is stolen from the Bible and Torah by Mohamed, then twisted to suit his agenda.
The Bible was written by many people over a long period of time based on the teachings of Christ and his disciples. Jesus did not write any of the Bible as he was dead long before it was written. The Torah again was written by many people over the years and was not written by Moses, much of it predates Moses by many centuries.
The Koran states that Jews and Christians were originally declared as "people of the book" only to later be called apes and pigs and to be seen as enemies of islam. This is why it commands the muslims to kill them when they find them. Because the person reciting the Koran was simplistic his rendition was also simplistic and based on single verses.

I saw a muslim scholar walk of if anger and hate when it was shown that the Koran taught terrorism, and he blamed the Jews for not letting him know.

You are wrong, because Mohammad PBUH was illiterate and He PBUH recite Al-Quran, no one else can recite at the time in Arab like him PBUH. Means he PBUH can not steal from other holly books but His PBUH message is as same as his PBUH predecessor in the line of prophets.But Prophet Mohammad PBUH was the AUTHOR of book of Allah(God) Al-Quran.
First there are no such a message killed Jews or Christian if there is then it is also apply on Muslim too, especially those who proved hypocrites not beleaver of the Holy Books.
As you know always hypocrites cause trouble to Prophets Like hypocrites jews cause trouble to Moses PBUH and Jesus PBUH.
Please don't be ignorant.

Try this for size then

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

What ever in AL-Quran is "word of Allah(God)" Prophet Mohammad PBUH just Passed on to us, as I reply to you in previous two posts, please follow the advise see some muslim near you to correct your misunderstanding or may be you are reading wrong book.

Like all holy books the Koran is the word of man, not god. It was a mentally defective man that recited the Koran in the 7c, a man that had frontal lobe epilepsy that manifests as delusions, hearing voices and seeing visions. No other person saw or heard these visitations, and as the hadiths tell us Mohamed often recited a different version on the verses on two seperate days. The consensus of opinion is that one of his sex slaves a Jewish girl told him of the Torah and its teachings and he used her stories as the basis for the Koran. He added verses extolling violence and murder because that is what most arabs of the time understood. One arab group worshipped 3 goddesses that manifested as cranes so he introduced them as allahs wives in one section of the Koran. He later claimed that this was given to him by the devil, but did not take them out and have them changed. The Koran is full of mistakes from a god that is supposed to be omnipotent like seminal fluid coming from the spine.

I have seen many muslim clerics in my life and not one has been able to explain the satanic verses, the many mistakes and the violence. I had one who stated that Mohamed had never killed a man in his life, then I showed him the Bukhari hadiths that show he killed many in clod blood. Another denied that he was an Incestuous paedophile until he read the Bukhari hadiths that show he married his brothers 9 year old daughter after changing the laws to allow him to do so.

So it is you that needs to get your brain into gear and read the Koran and hadiths properly to see that it is plagiarism and a terrorist manual.

Answer, : AL-Quran is not written by any one, AL-Quran is sent By Allah(God) and Received by Prophet Mohammad PBUH, like Bible(Ingeel) By Jesus PBUH and Tourat by Moses PBUH. AL-Quran is talking about a lot issues, you are only coating, what you attract as a common reader, but in my point of view AL-Quran is also saying that Jews and Christian are your brothers because they also own book of Allah.
But I will advise to you please see some Muslim scholar near around you to correct misunderstanding.

The Koran was altered even as it was being recited by the mentally defective camel herder. His words were written down by scribes and then collated into the Koran. Most of the Koran is stolen from the Bible and Torah by Mohamed, then twisted to suit his agenda.
The Bible was written by many people over a long period of time based on the teachings of Christ and his disciples. Jesus did not write any of the Bible as he was dead long before it was written. The Torah again was written by many people over the years and was not written by Moses, much of it predates Moses by many centuries.
The Koran states that Jews and Christians were originally declared as "people of the book" only to later be called apes and pigs and to be seen as enemies of islam. This is why it commands the muslims to kill them when they find them. Because the person reciting the Koran was simplistic his rendition was also simplistic and based on single verses.

I saw a muslim scholar walk of if anger and hate when it was shown that the Koran taught terrorism, and he blamed the Jews for not letting him know.

You are wrong, because Mohammad PBUH was illiterate and the He PBUH recite Al-Quran, no one else can recite at the time in Arab

Answer, : AL-Quran is not written by any one, AL-Quran is sent By Allah(God) and Received by Prophet Mohammad PBUH, like Bible(Ingeel) By Jesus PBUH and Tourat by Moses PBUH. AL-Quran is talking about a lot issues, you are only coating, what you attract as a common reader, but in my point of view AL-Quran is also saying that Jews and Christian are your brothers because they also own book of Allah.
But I will advise to you please see some Muslim scholar near around you to correct misunderstanding.

The Koran was altered even as it was being recited by the mentally defective camel herder. His words were written down by scribes and then collated into the Koran. Most of the Koran is stolen from the Bible and Torah by Mohamed, then twisted to suit his agenda.
The Bible was written by many people over a long period of time based on the teachings of Christ and his disciples. Jesus did not write any of the Bible as he was dead long before it was written. The Torah again was written by many people over the years and was not written by Moses, much of it predates Moses by many centuries.
The Koran states that Jews and Christians were originally declared as "people of the book" only to later be called apes and pigs and to be seen as enemies of islam. This is why it commands the muslims to kill them when they find them. Because the person reciting the Koran was simplistic his rendition was also simplistic and based on single verses.

I saw a muslim scholar walk of if anger and hate when it was shown that the Koran taught terrorism, and he blamed the Jews for not letting him know.

You are wrong, because Mohammad PBUH was illiterate and He PBUH recite Al-Quran, no one else can recite at the time in Arab like him PBUH. Means he PBUH can not steal from other holly books but His PBUH message is as same as his PBUH predecessor in the line of prophets.But Prophet Mohammad PBUH was the AUTHOR of book of Allah(God) Al-Quran.
First there are no such a message killed Jews or Christian if there is then it is also apply on Muslim too, especially those who proved hypocrites not beleaver of the Holy Books.
As you know always hypocrites cause trouble to Prophets Like hypocrites jews cause trouble to Moses PBUH and Jesus PBUH.
Please don't be ignorant.

Try this for size then

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

What ever in AL-Quran is "word of Allah(God)" Prophet Mohammad PBUH just Passed on to us, as I reply to you in previous two posts, please follow the advise see some muslim near you to correct your misunderstanding or may be you are reading wrong book.

Like all holy books the Koran is the word of man, not god. It was a mentally defective man that recited the Koran in the 7c, a man that had frontal lobe epilepsy that manifests as delusions, hearing voices and seeing visions. No other person saw or heard these visitations, and as the hadiths tell us Mohamed often recited a different version on the verses on two seperate days. The consensus of opinion is that one of his sex slaves a Jewish girl told him of the Torah and its teachings and he used her stories as the basis for the Koran. He added verses extolling violence and murder because that is what most arabs of the time understood. One arab group worshipped 3 goddesses that manifested as cranes so he introduced them as allahs wives in one section of the Koran. He later claimed that this was given to him by the devil, but did not take them out and have them changed. The Koran is full of mistakes from a god that is supposed to be omnipotent like seminal fluid coming from the spine.

I have seen many muslim clerics in my life and not one has been able to explain the satanic verses, the many mistakes and the violence. I had one who stated that Mohamed had never killed a man in his life, then I showed him the Bukhari hadiths that show he killed many in clod blood. Another denied that he was an Incestuous paedophile until he read the Bukhari hadiths that show he married his brothers 9 year old daughter after changing the laws to allow him to do so.

So it is you that needs to get your brain into gear and read the Koran and hadiths properly to see that it is plagiarism and a terrorist manual.

Answer, : AL-Quran is not written by any one, AL-Quran is sent By Allah(God) and Received by Prophet Mohammad PBUH, like Bible(Ingeel) By Jesus PBUH and Tourat by Moses PBUH. AL-Quran is talking about a lot issues, you are only coating, what you attract as a common reader, but in my point of view AL-Quran is also saying that Jews and Christian are your brothers because they also own book of Allah.
But I will advise to you please see some Muslim scholar near around you to correct misunderstanding.

The Koran was altered even as it was being recited by the mentally defective camel herder. His words were written down by scribes and then collated into the Koran. Most of the Koran is stolen from the Bible and Torah by Mohamed, then twisted to suit his agenda.
The Bible was written by many people over a long period of time based on the teachings of Christ and his disciples. Jesus did not write any of the Bible as he was dead long before it was written. The Torah again was written by many people over the years and was not written by Moses, much of it predates Moses by many centuries.
The Koran states that Jews and Christians were originally declared as "people of the book" only to later be called apes and pigs and to be seen as enemies of islam. This is why it commands the muslims to kill them when they find them. Because the person reciting the Koran was simplistic his rendition was also simplistic and based on single verses.

I saw a muslim scholar walk of if anger and hate when it was shown that the Koran taught terrorism, and he blamed the Jews for not letting him know.

You are wrong, because Mohammad PBUH was illiterate and the He PBUH recite Al-Quran, no one else can recite at the time in Arab

Answer, : AL-Quran is not written by any one, AL-Quran is sent By Allah(God) and Received by Prophet Mohammad PBUH, like Bible(Ingeel) By Jesus PBUH and Tourat by Moses PBUH. AL-Quran is talking about a lot issues, you are only coating, what you attract as a common reader, but in my point of view AL-Quran is also saying that Jews and Christian are your brothers because they also own book of Allah.
But I will advise to you please see some Muslim scholar near around you to correct misunderstanding.

The Koran was altered even as it was being recited by the mentally defective camel herder. His words were written down by scribes and then collated into the Koran. Most of the Koran is stolen from the Bible and Torah by Mohamed, then twisted to suit his agenda.
The Bible was written by many people over a long period of time based on the teachings of Christ and his disciples. Jesus did not write any of the Bible as he was dead long before it was written. The Torah again was written by many people over the years and was not written by Moses, much of it predates Moses by many centuries.
The Koran states that Jews and Christians were originally declared as "people of the book" only to later be called apes and pigs and to be seen as enemies of islam. This is why it commands the muslims to kill them when they find them. Because the person reciting the Koran was simplistic his rendition was also simplistic and based on single verses.

I saw a muslim scholar walk of if anger and hate when it was shown that the Koran taught terrorism, and he blamed the Jews for not letting him know.

You are wrong, because Mohammad PBUH was illiterate and He PBUH recite Al-Quran, no one else can recite at the time in Arab like him PBUH. Means he PBUH can not steal from other holly books but His PBUH message is as same as his PBUH predecessor in the line of prophets.But Prophet Mohammad PBUH was the AUTHOR of book of Allah(God) Al-Quran.
First there are no such a message killed Jews or Christian if there is then it is also apply on Muslim too, especially those who proved hypocrites not beleaver of the Holy Books.
As you know always hypocrites cause trouble to Prophets Like hypocrites jews cause trouble to Moses PBUH and Jesus PBUH.
Please don't be ignorant.

Try this for size then

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

What ever in AL-Quran is "word of Allah(God)" Prophet Mohammad PBUH just Passed on to us, as I reply to you in previous two posts, please follow the advise see some muslim near you to correct your misunderstanding or may be you are reading wrong book.

Like all holy books the Koran is the word of man, not god. It was a mentally defective man that recited the Koran in the 7c, a man that had frontal lobe epilepsy that manifests as delusions, hearing voices and seeing visions. No other person saw or heard these visitations, and as the hadiths tell us Mohamed often recited a different version on the verses on two seperate days. The consensus of opinion is that one of his sex slaves a Jewish girl told him of the Torah and its teachings and he used her stories as the basis for the Koran. He added verses extolling violence and murder because that is what most arabs of the time understood. One arab group worshipped 3 goddesses that manifested as cranes so he introduced them as allahs wives in one section of the Koran. He later claimed that this was given to him by the devil, but did not take them out and have them changed. The Koran is full of mistakes from a god that is supposed to be omnipotent like seminal fluid coming from the spine.

I have seen many muslim clerics in my life and not one has been able to explain the satanic verses, the many mistakes and the violence. I had one who stated that Mohamed had never killed a man in his life, then I showed him the Bukhari hadiths that show he killed many in clod blood. Another denied that he was an Incestuous paedophile until he read the Bukhari hadiths that show he married his brothers 9 year old daughter after changing the laws to allow him to do so.

So it is you that needs to get your brain into gear and read the Koran and hadiths properly to see that it is plagiarism and a terrorist manual.

Answer, : AL-Quran is not written by any one, AL-Quran is sent By Allah(God) and Received by Prophet Mohammad PBUH, like Bible(Ingeel) By Jesus PBUH and Tourat by Moses PBUH. AL-Quran is talking about a lot issues, you are only coating, what you attract as a common reader, but in my point of view AL-Quran is also saying that Jews and Christian are your brothers because they also own book of Allah.
But I will advise to you please see some Muslim scholar near around you to correct misunderstanding.

The Koran was altered even as it was being recited by the mentally defective camel herder. His words were written down by scribes and then collated into the Koran. Most of the Koran is stolen from the Bible and Torah by Mohamed, then twisted to suit his agenda.
The Bible was written by many people over a long period of time based on the teachings of Christ and his disciples. Jesus did not write any of the Bible as he was dead long before it was written. The Torah again was written by many people over the years and was not written by Moses, much of it predates Moses by many centuries.
The Koran states that Jews and Christians were originally declared as "people of the book" only to later be called apes and pigs and to be seen as enemies of islam. This is why it commands the muslims to kill them when they find them. Because the person reciting the Koran was simplistic his rendition was also simplistic and based on single verses.

I saw a muslim scholar walk of if anger and hate when it was shown that the Koran taught terrorism, and he blamed the Jews for not letting him know.

You are wrong, because Mohammad PBUH was illiterate and the He PBUH recite Al-Quran, no one else can recite at the time in Arab

Answer, : AL-Quran is not written by any one, AL-Quran is sent By Allah(God) and Received by Prophet Mohammad PBUH, like Bible(Ingeel) By Jesus PBUH and Tourat by Moses PBUH. AL-Quran is talking about a lot issues, you are only coating, what you attract as a common reader, but in my point of view AL-Quran is also saying that Jews and Christian are your brothers because they also own book of Allah.
But I will advise to you please see some Muslim scholar near around you to correct misunderstanding.

The Koran was altered even as it was being recited by the mentally defective camel herder. His words were written down by scribes and then collated into the Koran. Most of the Koran is stolen from the Bible and Torah by Mohamed, then twisted to suit his agenda.
The Bible was written by many people over a long period of time based on the teachings of Christ and his disciples. Jesus did not write any of the Bible as he was dead long before it was written. The Torah again was written by many people over the years and was not written by Moses, much of it predates Moses by many centuries.
The Koran states that Jews and Christians were originally declared as "people of the book" only to later be called apes and pigs and to be seen as enemies of islam. This is why it commands the muslims to kill them when they find them. Because the person reciting the Koran was simplistic his rendition was also simplistic and based on single verses.

I saw a muslim scholar walk of if anger and hate when it was shown that the Koran taught terrorism, and he blamed the Jews for not letting him know.

You are wrong, because Mohammad PBUH was illiterate and He PBUH recite Al-Quran, no one else can recite at the time in Arab like him PBUH. Means he PBUH can not steal from other holly books but His PBUH message is as same as his PBUH predecessor in the line of prophets.But Prophet Mohammad PBUH was the AUTHOR of book of Allah(God) Al-Quran.
First there are no such a message killed Jews or Christian if there is then it is also apply on Muslim too, especially those who proved hypocrites not beleaver of the Holy Books.
As you know always hypocrites cause trouble to Prophets Like hypocrites jews cause trouble to Moses PBUH and Jesus PBUH.
Please don't be ignorant.

Try this for size then

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

What ever in AL-Quran is "word of Allah(God)" Prophet Mohammad PBUH just Passed on to us, as I reply to you in previous two posts, please follow the advise see some muslim near you to correct your misunderstanding or may be you are reading wrong book.

Like all holy books the Koran is the word of man, not god. It was a mentally defective man that recited the Koran in the 7c, a man that had frontal lobe epilepsy that manifests as delusions, hearing voices and seeing visions. No other person saw or heard these visitations, and as the hadiths tell us Mohamed often recited a different version on the verses on two seperate days. The consensus of opinion is that one of his sex slaves a Jewish girl told him of the Torah and its teachings and he used her stories as the basis for the Koran. He added verses extolling violence and murder because that is what most arabs of the time understood. One arab group worshipped 3 goddesses that manifested as cranes so he introduced them as allahs wives in one section of the Koran. He later claimed that this was given to him by the devil, but did not take them out and have them changed. The Koran is full of mistakes from a god that is supposed to be omnipotent like seminal fluid coming from the spine.

I have seen many muslim clerics in my life and not one has been able to explain the satanic verses, the many mistakes and the violence. I had one who stated that Mohamed had never killed a man in his life, then I showed him the Bukhari hadiths that show he killed many in clod blood. Another denied that he was an Incestuous paedophile until he read the Bukhari hadiths that show he married his brothers 9 year old daughter after changing the laws to allow him to do so.

So it is you that needs to get your brain into gear and read the Koran and hadiths properly to see that it is plagiarism and a terrorist manual.

Jihad for God. And oh all those beautiful photos of beheadings.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, we have to disagree here.

The US government does not give a rat's ass about law international or domestic. The best example is the Palestinian unity government of 2007. The unity government was legally elected and constituted according to constitutional mandates.

(COMMENT)

Even so --- the People supported HAMAS. HAMAS is a designated terrorist organization (by multiple countries); and a self-proclaimed Jihadist group. Remember:

The US pledges "to cooperate fully in the fight against terrorism, in accordance with our obligations under international law, in order to find, deny safe haven and bring to justice, on the basis of the principle of extradite or prosecute, any person who supports, facilitates, participates or attempts to participate in the financing, planning, preparation or perpetration of terrorist acts or provides safe havens."​

Even is the accusation was true, as you stated, all the Palestinian People did was form a government that is cooperating in full or in part, with a known and designated foreign terrorist organization which openly organizes, instigates, facilitates, participates in, finances, encourages and tolerates terrorist activities intended to be committed against other States (Israel) and its citizens. HAMAS, through its subordinate activities and affiliated organizations, by designed had demonstrated it will provoke and encourage a threat to the peace, openly committed breach of the peace, and acts of aggression; through propaganda and direct action.

The US did not like this government so they fomented a coup. They coerced Abbas into this coup and supplied him with money, weapons, training and political support i.e. lies.

(COMMENT)

So your contention (even if the allegation is true) is that it is illegal to fight terrorism (HAMAS as a multinational designated terrorist organization); it is illegal to carry-out the strategy, in the form of a resolution and an Annexed Plan of Action (A/RES/60/288), the unique global instrument that will enhance national, regional and international efforts to counter terrorism?

The coup failed in Gaza but was successful in illegally putting the losers of the elections back into power in the West Bank.

Fomenting a coup in another country is a violation of international law.

Supporting a government brought into power by coup is a violation of domestic law.

(COMMENT)

Is it really? Or is this part of the pro-HAMAS campaign strategy to alter the discussion by suggesting that HAMAS is not a criminal terrorist enterprise; but, some sort of legitimate government that pursues peace in accordance with the codification of the principles of international law concerning friendly relations and co-operation among States (A/RES/25/2625)? We see no evidence that HAMAS is pursuing peace. What we see is the continuous instigation of conflict with the periodic restated mantra that "Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, and the restoration of all the rights, together with, of course, all forms of political and diplomatic struggle including in the media, public and legal."

It is not a coup d'état that you describe; but rather a discreet means of combating a regional threat to peace.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

Even is the accusation was true, as you stated, all the Palestinian People did was form a government that is cooperating in full or in part, with a known and designated foreign terrorist organization

Hamas is a constitutionally protected political party in Palestine. The Palestinians do not buy into that third grade terrorist name calling.

By the way, you have never specified why those clowns designated Hamas to be terrorists.

 

[montelatici]

The Europeans of the Jewish faith that went to Israel starting in the late 1800s have nothing to do with the ancient Jews that stole the land from the Samartins, Canaens etc.

Did you purposely miss the point? Or the history of the area?

Palestine didn't exist until relatively recent population growth forced (mostly Jordanians) to migrate. But that is long after the fact. Meanwhile the real children and inhabitants of the region have been obscured by anti-Semite academia. Prove me wrong!

And who are the Samartins? You mean the Samaritans?

I hope you have an open mind about such things, as much can be poured in.

1. "Judaism in Jerusalem pre-dated Christianity in Bethlehem by about a 1000 years, both of which pre-dated Islam in the region by a long shot."

So what? People change religions all the time. If a group of people in Kenya convert to mos maiorum it does not give them the right to settle in Rome and declare themselves a state.

2. The "real children and inhabitants of the region" are the people (descendants) that have lived in the region for the last 4,000-5,000 years. Converting to the most convenient religion does not change the people.

3. "Palestine didn't exist until relatively recent population growth forced (mostly Jordanians) to migrate."

As usual, Zionist horseshit.

"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921

Once again an ANTI SEMITIC JEW HATRED piece of garbage that you have been told about is being used.]]

The facts as written by a non partisan source

Year	Jews	Christians	Muslims	Total
First half 1st century CE	Majority	–	–	~2,500
5th century	Minority	Majority	–	>1st century
End 12th century	Minority	Minority	Majority	>225
14th century before Black Death	Minority	Minority	Majority	225
14th century after Black Death	Minority	Minority	Majority	150
1533–1539	5	6	145	157
1690–1691	2	11	219	232
1800	7	22	246	275
1890	43	57	432	532
1914	94	70	525	689
1922	84	71	589	752
1931	175	89	760	1,033
1947	630	143	1,181	1,970
Figures in thousands. Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

[THEAD] [/THEAD]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Hasbara is continuously changing that table to suit their propaganda needs. I think most will agreed that official government documents are more reliable.

"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants. ...

"So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population." Winnie Churchill.

The Mandatory Interim Report, quoted above, was written in 1921, Churchill made the politically motivated statement (which was a lie) in 1939 to counter the Government's insistence that Jewish immigration to Palestine should be moderated to mitigate the local population's demonstrations against the takeover of their land. A political statement is far less reliable than official Government reports. If you would do more research you probably would not just spout nonsense without understanding the context. Churchill was responding to this:

"'His Majesty's Government do not [..] find anything in the Mandate or in subsequent Statements of Policy to support the view that the establishment of a Jewish National Home in Palestine cannot be effected unless immigration is allowed to continue indefinitely. If immigration has an adverse effect on the economic position in the country, it should clearly be restricted; and equally, if it has a seriously damaging effect on the political position in the country, that is a factor that should not be ignored. Although it is not difficult to contend that the large number of Jewish immigrants who have been admitted so far have been absorbed economically, the fear of the Arabs that this influx will continue indefinitely until the Jewish population is in a position to dominate them has produced consequences which are extremely grave for Jews and Arabs alike and for the peace and prosperity of Palestine."

White Paper of 1939

The Avalon Project British White Paper of 1939

Did you read your link that destroyed so many of your claims about Israel and the Jews, things like this


"Unauthorized statements have been made to the effect that the purpose in view is to create a wholly Jewish Palestine. Phrases have been used such as that `Palestine is to become as Jewish as England is English.' His Majesty's Government regard any such expectation as impracticable and have no such aim in view. Nor have they at any time contemplated .... the disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language or culture in Palestine. They would draw attention to the fact that the terms of the (Balfour) Declaration referred to do not contemplate that Palestine as a whole should be converted into a Jewish National Home, but that such a Home should be founded IN PALESTINE."

This community, then, with its town and country population, its political, religious and social organisations, its own language, its own customs, its own life, has in fact `national' characteristics. When it is asked what is meant by the development of the Jewish National Home in Palestine, it may be answered that it is not the imposition of a Jewish nationality upon the inhabitants of Palestine as a whole, but the further development of the existing Jewish community, with the assistance of Jews in other parts of the world, in order that it may become a centre in which the Jewish people as a whole may take, on grounds of religion and race, an interest and pride. But in order that this community should have the best prospect of free development and provide a full opportunity for the Jewish people to display its capacities, it is essential that it should know that it is in Palestine as of right and not on sufferance. That is the reason why it is necessary that the existence of a Jewish National Home in Palestine should be internationally guaranteed, and that it should be formally recognised to rest upon ancient historic connection

Under Article 6 of the Mandate, the Administration of Palestine, "while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced," is required to "facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions." Beyond this, the extent to which Jewish immigration into Palestine is to be permitted is nowhere defined in the Mandate. But in the Command Paper of 1922 it was laid down that for the fulfilment of the policy of establishing a Jewish National Home:
"it is necessary that the Jewish commun ity in Palestine should be able to increase its numbers by immigration. This immigration cannot be so great in volume as to exceed whatever may be the economic capacity of the country at the time to absorb new arrivals. It is essential to ensure that the immigrants should not be a burden upon the people of Palestine as a whole, and that they should not deprive any section of the present population of their employment."

The Administration of Palestine is required, under Article 6 of the Mandate, "while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced," to encourage "close settlement by Jews on the land," and no restriction has been imposed hitherto on the transfer of land from Arabs to Jews. The Reports of several expert Commissions have indictaed that, owing to the natural growth of the Arab population and the steady sale in recent years of Arab land to Jews, there is now in certain areas no room for further transfers of Arab land, whilst in some other areas such transfers of land must be restricted if Arab cultivators are to maintain their existing standard of life and a considerable landless Arab population is not soon to be created. In these circumstances, the High Commissioner will be given general powers to prohibit and regulate transfers of land. These powers will date from the publication of this statement of policy and the High Commissioner will retain them throughout the transitional period.

Thanks for making my point Phoney. It shows that the British were lying and in fact a Jewish state separate from Palestine was in fact, founded. Something they said would never happen.

 

[montelatici]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, we have to disagree here.

The US government does not give a rat's ass about law international or domestic. The best example is the Palestinian unity government of 2007. The unity government was legally elected and constituted according to constitutional mandates.

(COMMENT)

Even so --- the People supported HAMAS. HAMAS is a designated terrorist organization (by multiple countries); and a self-proclaimed Jihadist group. Remember:

The US pledges "to cooperate fully in the fight against terrorism, in accordance with our obligations under international law, in order to find, deny safe haven and bring to justice, on the basis of the principle of extradite or prosecute, any person who supports, facilitates, participates or attempts to participate in the financing, planning, preparation or perpetration of terrorist acts or provides safe havens."​

Even is the accusation was true, as you stated, all the Palestinian People did was form a government that is cooperating in full or in part, with a known and designated foreign terrorist organization which openly organizes, instigates, facilitates, participates in, finances, encourages and tolerates terrorist activities intended to be committed against other States (Israel) and its citizens. HAMAS, through its subordinate activities and affiliated organizations, by designed had demonstrated it will provoke and encourage a threat to the peace, openly committed breach of the peace, and acts of aggression; through propaganda and direct action.

The US did not like this government so they fomented a coup. They coerced Abbas into this coup and supplied him with money, weapons, training and political support i.e. lies.

(COMMENT)

So your contention (even if the allegation is true) is that it is illegal to fight terrorism (HAMAS as a multinational designated terrorist organization); it is illegal to carry-out the strategy, in the form of a resolution and an Annexed Plan of Action (A/RES/60/288), the unique global instrument that will enhance national, regional and international efforts to counter terrorism?

The coup failed in Gaza but was successful in illegally putting the losers of the elections back into power in the West Bank.

Fomenting a coup in another country is a violation of international law.

Supporting a government brought into power by coup is a violation of domestic law.

(COMMENT)

Is it really? Or is this part of the pro-HAMAS campaign strategy to alter the discussion by suggesting that HAMAS is not a criminal terrorist enterprise; but, some sort of legitimate government that pursues peace in accordance with the codification of the principles of international law concerning friendly relations and co-operation among States (A/RES/25/2625)? We see no evidence that HAMAS is pursuing peace. What we see is the continuous instigation of conflict with the periodic restated mantra that "Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, and the restoration of all the rights, together with, of course, all forms of political and diplomatic struggle including in the media, public and legal."

It is not a coup d'état that you describe; but rather a discreet means of combating a regional threat to peace.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Palestinians, whoever they elect, have the same right to pursue liberation from occupation that the ANC had, the FLN (Algeria), that the Muhajedin had and that all national liberation movements have and have had. Why should the Palestinians be treated differently?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Pay attention.

Even is the accusation was true, as you stated, all the Palestinian People did was form a government that is cooperating in full or in part, with a known and designated foreign terrorist organization

Hamas is a constitutionally protected political party in Palestine. The Palestinians do not buy into that third grade terrorist name calling.

By the way, you have never specified why those clowns designated Hamas to be terrorists.

(COMMENT)

HAMAS and it associates PIJ (et al) are a terrorist organization be cause it has a past history of criminal behaviors that include:

• seriously intimidating a population, or
• unduly compelling a Government or international organisation to perform or abstain from performing any act, or
• seriously destabilising or destroying the fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures of a country or an international organisation,

• HAMAS history includes terrorist offences:
  • (a) attacks upon a person's life which may cause death;
  • (b) attacks upon the physical integrity of a person;
  • (c) kidnapping or hostage taking;
  • (d) causing extensive destruction to a Government or public facility, a transport system, an infrastructure facility;
  • (e) seizure of aircraft, ships or other means of public or goods transport;
  • (f) manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport, supply or use of weapons, explosives;
  • (g) ...; indiscriminate rocket and mortar attacks;
  • (h) ...;
  • (i) threatening to commit any of the acts listed in (a) to (h).

Again, your position is solely based on trying to establish a justification for the continuation of violence, rather than focusing on peace initiatives.

This is very much a HAMAS type of approach.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[MJB12741]

Even is the accusation was true, as you stated, all the Palestinian People did was form a government that is cooperating in full or in part, with a known and designated foreign terrorist organization

Hamas is a constitutionally protected political party in Palestine. The Palestinians do not buy into that third grade terrorist name calling.

By the way, you have never specified why those clowns designated Hamas to be terrorists.

Isn't it just awful all those dead Palesttinians killed by Israel? Golly gee, do you think maybe Hamas made a terriible mistake not accepting Israel's plea to stop firing rocket misiles into Israel to kill Israeli's?

 

[Hossfly]

Even is the accusation was true, as you stated, all the Palestinian People did was form a government that is cooperating in full or in part, with a known and designated foreign terrorist organization

Hamas is a constitutionally protected political party in Palestine. The Palestinians do not buy into that third grade terrorist name calling.

By the way, you have never specified why those clowns designated Hamas to be terrorists.

Maybe so,Tinmore, and that's where your confusion starts. They ain't protected from Hellfire missles. You might wanna work on that.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Pay attention.

Even is the accusation was true, as you stated, all the Palestinian People did was form a government that is cooperating in full or in part, with a known and designated foreign terrorist organization

Hamas is a constitutionally protected political party in Palestine. The Palestinians do not buy into that third grade terrorist name calling.

By the way, you have never specified why those clowns designated Hamas to be terrorists.

(COMMENT)

HAMAS and it associates PIJ (et al) are a terrorist organization be cause it has a past history of criminal behaviors that include:

• seriously intimidating a population, or
• unduly compelling a Government or international organisation to perform or abstain from performing any act, or
• seriously destabilising or destroying the fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures of a country or an international organisation,

• HAMAS history includes terrorist offences:
  • (a) attacks upon a person's life which may cause death;
  • (b) attacks upon the physical integrity of a person;
  • (c) kidnapping or hostage taking;
  • (d) causing extensive destruction to a Government or public facility, a transport system, an infrastructure facility;
  • (e) seizure of aircraft, ships or other means of public or goods transport;
  • (f) manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport, supply or use of weapons, explosives;
  • (g) ...; indiscriminate rocket and mortar attacks;
  • (h) ...;
  • (i) threatening to commit any of the acts listed in (a) to (h).

Again, your position is solely based on trying to establish a justification for the continuation of violence, rather than focusing on peace initiatives.

This is very much a HAMAS type of approach.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Palestinians have been seeking peace based on international law and UN resolutions for decades. Israel and it toadies have rejected all requests and opted for violence.

1. The subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights, is contrary to the Charter of the United Nations and is an impediment to the promotion of world peace and co-operation.

2. All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.

3. Inadequacy of political, economic, social or educational preparedness should never serve as a pretext for delaying independence.

4. All armed action or repressive measures of all kinds directed against dependent peoples shall cease in order to enable them to exercise peacefully and freely their right to complete independence, and the integrity of their national territory shall be respected.

5. Immediate steps shall be taken, in Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories or all other territories which have not yet attained independence, to transfer all powers to the peoples of those territories, without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with their freely expressed will and desire, without any distinction as to race, creed or colour, in order to enable them to enjoy complete independence and freedom.

6. Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and the territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations.

7. All States shall observe faithfully and strictly the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the present Declaration on the basis of equality, non-interference in the internal affairs of all States, and respect for the sovereign rights of all peoples and their territorial integrity.

The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration