Wisconsin Collective Bargaining Law is Working

[DaGoose]

Poll: Walker Would Lose if Election Held Today | FDL News Desk

hes got 4 years, get over it....


and I await your answer on submitting proof of your claims, I, already agree to submit mine.

No he doesn't according to recall laws.

You submit your proof (via PM if you like, this is between us) that includes links along with your name and I will do the same after I get yours.

don't even try that shit.

we'll pick a moderator here we can both agree on, we will submit proof at the same time;

I want the mod. verfiy;
a) your union card and/or union memberships on union letterhead ( with contact information there in) in your name for
b) for both the private
c)public sector unions you worked for.
d) shop steward status verified
e) proof of your elected position delineating your position in negotiator status as proof of your bargaining status
f) your dsl bill, with name clearly spelled out which they will check against the IP's that have been recorded here.
g) your work emails, past and present at those unions.



I don't want to know your name, I could care less and I am certainly not going to give you mine, its not necessary.

I will provide to them irrefutable proof of my union status.

Hmmm.....I have to provide:

a) my union card and/or union memberships on union letterhead ( with contact information there in) in my name for
b) for both the private
c)public sector unions I worked for.
d) shop steward status verified
e) proof of my elected position delineating your position in negotiator status as proof of my bargaining status
f) my dsl bill (whatever THAT is), with name clearly spelled out which they will check against the IP's that have been recorded here.
g) my work emails, past and present at those unions.

And you have to provide:

a)irrefutable proof of your union status

That's a little one sided, don't ya think?

I was going to simply send you my name along with a couple of links to verify employment, union status and past elected position. Proof of steward status can only be verified through pay stubs ($50 a month...big whoop) and proof of being on the county negotiating team can only be verified by putting you in contact with other members (I suppose I could go search county records but that will take at least a 1/2 day and I ain't got that much time to waste on this shit). Work e-mail addy is no problem. But since I am not going to send anyone bills, pay stubs or hand out other peoples names I guess your SOL.

I can see your point that either of us can submit false names to a mod or each other so maybe my idea wouldn't have been irrefutable proof either.

So you're either gonna have to accept my word (and I yours) or call bullshit (which goes both ways). But a man's only as good as his word and I'm being 100% honest when I say:

I am a member of IBEW Local 15 which represents the the workforce of a public utility. Now does that constitute a "public union"? You make the call.

I was an elected member of my County Board and attained the position of Vice-Chair. I served as Chair of the Public Works and Highways Committee, Chair of the Safety Committee (over the Sheriff's department and County Jail) and member of the Finance Committee (overseeing all tax income and disbursements). I also served on the Ad-Hoc Union Negotiating Committee opposite of the AFSCME union.

So this is where I'm gonna leave it. If you want to call BS so be it.

.

 

[DaGoose]

Same question to you - in post 221.

Try not to dodge it, we need no further affirmation that you're a pussy.

Tough talk from a sissy bedwetter.

You answer my question first. Why are you afraid the workers will vote to de-cert?

I'm not. But the rigged voting procedure where the non-voters get counted as 'no' is absurd.

Now answer my question.

And just so it doesn't get lost in the shuffle here's the question in post 221...

So what other elections other than union certification do you believe should require 51% of the eligible voters to vote for in order to pass? As opposed to a majority of those who vote...

A quick list shouldn't take you much effort. Show us how fair and consistent you are.

.

 

[Claudette]

The new law makes it illegal for public employees unions to bargain collectively for anything but wages, though there are exemptions for police and firefighters. It also imposes hurdles to union representation, bars the automatic collection of union dues from employees' paychecks and requires public employee unions to win certification elections every year with at least one vote more over 50 percent of all eligible employees - not just those participating in the election.

That destroys those unions effected.

Courthouse News Service

That's the point. The unions could not police themselves. Now they are being punished. Unions are being throttled back because they got greedy and quite frankly had things their way for far too long.
So now it's the taxpayer's turn to be represented in the State Capitol.
Union leadership thought they had an unfettered path to public money. For decades that was accommodated by complicit politicians.
The gravy train has taken it's final trip.

So the taxpayer is finally being represented? You're so fucking delusional that I think you really believe that.

The taxpayers (read it "working men and women") have had it with Walker and the GOP bullshit. They have turned on him as he and the Koch brothers stick up the workers asses. Read the polls and weep.

Poll: Walker's Anti-Union Stance Turning Off Wisconsin Voters | TPMDC

The Plum Line - Poll: Scott Walker losing P.R. battle

Poll: Walker Would Lose if Election Held Today | FDL News Desk

.

If all WI communities save money the way the community in the Op is doing I'd be willing to bet Walker will win re-election.

If the jobs come pouring in then no one will even remember the public sector unions.

They will, however, be aware all the money they are saving in taxes.

In four years I'd be willing to bet that Wislon wins re-election. Time will tell the tail.

 

[DaGoose]

That's the point. The unions could not police themselves. Now they are being punished. Unions are being throttled back because they got greedy and quite frankly had things their way for far too long.
So now it's the taxpayer's turn to be represented in the State Capitol.
Union leadership thought they had an unfettered path to public money. For decades that was accommodated by complicit politicians.
The gravy train has taken it's final trip.

So the taxpayer is finally being represented? You're so fucking delusional that I think you really believe that.

The taxpayers (read it "working men and women") have had it with Walker and the GOP bullshit. They have turned on him as he and the Koch brothers stick up the workers asses. Read the polls and weep.

Poll: Walker's Anti-Union Stance Turning Off Wisconsin Voters | TPMDC

The Plum Line - Poll: Scott Walker losing P.R. battle

Poll: Walker Would Lose if Election Held Today | FDL News Desk

.

If all WI communities save money the way the community in the Op is doing I'd be willing to bet Wilson will win re-election.

If the jobs come pouring in then no one will even remember the public sector unions.

They will, however, be aware all the money they are saving in taxes.

In four years I'd be willing to bet that Wislon wins re-election. Time will tell the tail.

Who's Wislon?

.

 

[daveman]

Same question to you - in post 221.

Try not to dodge it, we need no further affirmation that you're a pussy.

Tough talk from a sissy bedwetter.

You answer my question first. Why are you afraid the workers will vote to de-cert?

I'm not. But the rigged voting procedure where the non-voters get counted as 'no' is absurd.

Now answer my question.

Bzzzzzt! Sorry. You didn't answer my question.

 

[Claudette]

So the taxpayer is finally being represented? You're so fucking delusional that I think you really believe that.

The taxpayers (read it "working men and women") have had it with Walker and the GOP bullshit. They have turned on him as he and the Koch brothers stick up the workers asses. Read the polls and weep.

Poll: Walker's Anti-Union Stance Turning Off Wisconsin Voters | TPMDC

The Plum Line - Poll: Scott Walker losing P.R. battle

Poll: Walker Would Lose if Election Held Today | FDL News Desk

.

If all WI communities save money the way the community in the Op is doing I'd be willing to bet Walker will win re-election.

If the jobs come pouring in then no one will even remember the public sector unions.

They will, however, be aware all the money they are saving in taxes.

In four years I'd be willing to bet that Walker wins re-election. Time will tell the tail.

Who's Wislon?

.

Such an ass. You know I meant Walker

 

[Jack Fate]

 

[Trajan]

No he doesn't according to recall laws.

You submit your proof (via PM if you like, this is between us) that includes links along with your name and I will do the same after I get yours.

don't even try that shit.

we'll pick a moderator here we can both agree on, we will submit proof at the same time;

I want the mod. verfiy;
a) your union card and/or union memberships on union letterhead ( with contact information there in) in your name for
b) for both the private
c)public sector unions you worked for.
d) shop steward status verified
e) proof of your elected position delineating your position in negotiator status as proof of your bargaining status
f) your dsl bill, with name clearly spelled out which they will check against the IP's that have been recorded here.
g) your work emails, past and present at those unions.



I don't want to know your name, I could care less and I am certainly not going to give you mine, its not necessary.

I will provide to them irrefutable proof of my union status.

Hmmm.....I have to provide:

a) my union card and/or union memberships on union letterhead ( with contact information there in) in my name for
b) for both the private
c)public sector unions I worked for.
d) shop steward status verified
e) proof of my elected position delineating your position in negotiator status as proof of my bargaining status
f) my dsl bill (whatever THAT is), with name clearly spelled out which they will check against the IP's that have been recorded here.
g) my work emails, past and present at those unions.

And you have to provide:

a)irrefutable proof of your union status

That's a little one sided, don't ya think?

I was going to simply send you my name along with a couple of links to verify employment, union status and past elected position. Proof of steward status can only be verified through pay stubs ($50 a month...big whoop) and proof of being on the county negotiating team can only be verified by putting you in contact with other members (I suppose I could go search county records but that will take at least a 1/2 day and I ain't got that much time to waste on this shit). Work e-mail addy is no problem. But since I am not going to send anyone bills, pay stubs or hand out other peoples names I guess your SOL.

I can see your point that either of us can submit false names to a mod or each other so maybe my idea wouldn't have been irrefutable proof either.

So you're either gonna have to accept my word (and I yours) or call bullshit (which goes both ways). But a man's only as good as his word and I'm being 100% honest when I say:

I am a member of IBEW Local 15 which represents the the workforce of a public utility. Now does that constitute a "public union"? You make the call.

I was an elected member of my County Board and attained the position of Vice-Chair. I served as Chair of the Public Works and Highways Committee, Chair of the Safety Committee (over the Sheriff's department and County Jail) and member of the Finance Committee (overseeing all tax income and disbursements). I also served on the Ad-Hoc Union Negotiating Committee opposite of the AFSCME union.

So this is where I'm gonna leave it. If you want to call BS so be it.

.

That's a little one sided, don't ya think?

No, not really, I make no claims other than I am a member of a U.C. public sector union. Proving that is, as in some cases of yours, relatively easy. *shrugs* ( I said so, her on the forum way back before you were even posting here btw)


My question of your status in particular goes to your past declaration of being a member of a private sector union while debating in a thread speaking to public sector unions, now you said you are a negotiator and public sector employee…..when this all started, you demonstrated a complete lack of understanding as to the difference between the 2, private and public. So, I don’t get it.

Either you are NOT what you say you have been or, you have been on the public side of the table for so long you have allowed any logical delineation between the 2 to be completely purged from your mind and the adversarial position you occupy has innervated itself to such an extent you appear to have lost all sense of balance.

I have read a majority of your posts ( I think) , if you are a public sector union negotiator I have to say you have the most uncompromising anti ‘them’ attitude, I guess that fits, everything is totally and completely adversarial to the knife. I understand having to fight for your people, but this is not the table, this is a forum, so I see this as…you(?) and how you would react and negotiate.

That’s not what I would want in a negotiator frankly and just speaks to this whole issue. I cannot recall once in the threads posts I have read, where in you supposed or otherwise, it appears to me, even hinted that there needs to be a walk back of unalloyed union primacy in the public sectors effected. *shrugs*


Me? After serving in the private sector non union, I see my own union as a mechanism that doesn’t bargain in good faith, is actually harmful to the system of work etc. that goes on in my environment as per my example ( and others I can detail) of the massive raises amidst a demand for reasonable pension and health care contributions.

Yes the Regents granted it, they too are craven in that sense but at the end of the day, politics and pressure won, not the people of California of which I am also one. I have no problem saying so here in a forum, I would never ever say this at work, and we both ( if you are what you say you are) know why.

And as I said earlier, (as I do) if you had any qualms that perhaps your ‘side’ may need to pull back or perhaps something in the process as it applies to your own employer etc. here at the forum you would say so, but it appears you don’t….which can only lead to, well a closed mind.

And there it is; so in a sense I guess I am asking blood from a turnip, if you are what you say are does it matter? If not, does it matter? and probably makes the case moot, it cannot get any worse in any case.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

It's very simple in the end. Public Unions are not good for the Nation. The System is flawed & failed. It's in their own self-interests to screw Taxpayers over. So why would they stop doing it? It really is a corrupt & very expensive scam. I'm ok with Private-Sector Unions but there should be no Unions in Government period. The Taxpayer always loses in the end. Public Unions should be abolished.

 

[Big Fitz]

It's very simple in the end. Public Unions are not good for the Nation. The System is flawed & failed. It's in their own self-interests to screw Taxpayers over. So why would they stop doing it? It really is a corrupt & very expensive scam. I'm ok with Private-Sector Unions but there should be no Unions in Government period. The Taxpayer always loses in the end. Public Unions should be abolished.

Plus the negotiations are corrupt for the union often gets people elected who are sympathetic to the cause, not the tax payers cause who are footing the bill.

Public Sector unions could be allowed if you allowed a direct referendum to the public on the contract AND barred the unions from ANY organized support or even unorganized endorsements of candidates.

 

[DaGoose]

don't even try that shit.

we'll pick a moderator here we can both agree on, we will submit proof at the same time;

I want the mod. verfiy;
a) your union card and/or union memberships on union letterhead ( with contact information there in) in your name for
b) for both the private
c)public sector unions you worked for.
d) shop steward status verified
e) proof of your elected position delineating your position in negotiator status as proof of your bargaining status
f) your dsl bill, with name clearly spelled out which they will check against the IP's that have been recorded here.
g) your work emails, past and present at those unions.



I don't want to know your name, I could care less and I am certainly not going to give you mine, its not necessary.

I will provide to them irrefutable proof of my union status.

Hmmm.....I have to provide:

a) my union card and/or union memberships on union letterhead ( with contact information there in) in my name for
b) for both the private
c)public sector unions I worked for.
d) shop steward status verified
e) proof of my elected position delineating your position in negotiator status as proof of my bargaining status
f) my dsl bill (whatever THAT is), with name clearly spelled out which they will check against the IP's that have been recorded here.
g) my work emails, past and present at those unions.

And you have to provide:

a)irrefutable proof of your union status

That's a little one sided, don't ya think?

I was going to simply send you my name along with a couple of links to verify employment, union status and past elected position. Proof of steward status can only be verified through pay stubs ($50 a month...big whoop) and proof of being on the county negotiating team can only be verified by putting you in contact with other members (I suppose I could go search county records but that will take at least a 1/2 day and I ain't got that much time to waste on this shit). Work e-mail addy is no problem. But since I am not going to send anyone bills, pay stubs or hand out other peoples names I guess your SOL.

I can see your point that either of us can submit false names to a mod or each other so maybe my idea wouldn't have been irrefutable proof either.

So you're either gonna have to accept my word (and I yours) or call bullshit (which goes both ways). But a man's only as good as his word and I'm being 100% honest when I say:

I am a member of IBEW Local 15 which represents the the workforce of a public utility. Now does that constitute a "public union"? You make the call.

I was an elected member of my County Board and attained the position of Vice-Chair. I served as Chair of the Public Works and Highways Committee, Chair of the Safety Committee (over the Sheriff's department and County Jail) and member of the Finance Committee (overseeing all tax income and disbursements). I also served on the Ad-Hoc Union Negotiating Committee opposite of the AFSCME union.

So this is where I'm gonna leave it. If you want to call BS so be it.

.

That's a little one sided, don't ya think?

No, not really, I make no claims other than I am a member of a U.C. public sector union. Proving that is, as in some cases of yours, relatively easy. *shrugs* ( I said so, her on the forum way back before you were even posting here btw)


My question of your status in particular goes to your past declaration of being a member of a private sector union while debating in a thread speaking to public sector unions, now you said you are a negotiator and public sector employee…..when this all started, you demonstrated a complete lack of understanding as to the difference between the 2, private and public. So, I don’t get it.

Either you are NOT what you say you have been or, you have been on the public side of the table for so long you have allowed any logical delineation between the 2 to be completely purged from your mind and the adversarial position you occupy has innervated itself to such an extent you appear to have lost all sense of balance.

I have read a majority of your posts ( I think) , if you are a public sector union negotiator I have to say you have the most uncompromising anti ‘them’ attitude, I guess that fits, everything is totally and completely adversarial to the knife. I understand having to fight for your people, but this is not the table, this is a forum, so I see this as…you(?) and how you would react and negotiate.

That’s not what I would want in a negotiator frankly and just speaks to this whole issue. I cannot recall once in the threads posts I have read, where in you supposed or otherwise, it appears to me, even hinted that there needs to be a walk back of unalloyed union primacy in the public sectors effected. *shrugs*


Me? After serving in the private sector non union, I see my own union as a mechanism that doesn’t bargain in good faith, is actually harmful to the system of work etc. that goes on in my environment as per my example ( and others I can detail) of the massive raises amidst a demand for reasonable pension and health care contributions.

Yes the Regents granted it, they too are craven in that sense but at the end of the day, politics and pressure won, not the people of California of which I am also one. I have no problem saying so here in a forum, I would never ever say this at work, and we both ( if you are what you say you are) know why.

And as I said earlier, (as I do) if you had any qualms that perhaps your ‘side’ may need to pull back or perhaps something in the process as it applies to your own employer etc. here at the forum you would say so, but it appears you don’t….which can only lead to, well a closed mind.

And there it is; so in a sense I guess I am asking blood from a turnip, if you are what you say are does it matter? If not, does it matter? and probably makes the case moot, it cannot get any worse in any case.

I suppose the crux of the issue is whether one considers a union for a PUBLIC utility to, in fact be a public sector union. We don't have to compete for business and the ratepayers simply have to pay whatever costs we pass onto them (provided the Illinois Commerce Commision allowed it). So I've always considered myself as having experience in a union that spanned both public and private entities.

My elected position forced me to sit on the other side of the table negotiating against the AFSCME union. And I wasn't the only power plant union member on the board or on the negotiating committee (there were two of us). The wage negotiations went pretty well since their demands weren't too far out of line. But when we negotiated medical benefits all hell broke loose. The county portion nearly tripled over the life of the last contract and we were able to convince them to pay more into their plans, but it was tough.

Ironically after my last term was up negotiations were scheduled for that year. The board pushed them to both pay more AND tried to force into plans with less coverage. The union went on strike and after a month they were able to come to an agreement. I'm glad I wasn't part of that.

Now how does this translate to my posts in this forum?

One on hand I have no problem forcing union members to pay more towards their benefits. I agree that in limited cases they even take advantage of the system and things should change. So much for being, as you said, being closed minded.

On the other I do get pissed when I read comments that place all the blame on the rank and file, that they are nothing more than leeches and lazy bums who steal from the taxpayers. And I will ram words and attitudes like that right back down their throats. I take personal offense at it and it most comes from morons that have no clue as to what their talking about.

Now I don't have much of a problem with Walker making them pay more. But to strip them of bargaining rights is WRONG. Period. And I will never compromise on that issue. That's where I draw the line.

I consider you a union brother and acknowledge that you have an opinion that doesn't agree with mine. So what? I work with several people who are openly critical of the union and a few who are nothing more than "fee payers". Nothing bad ever happens to them. Co-workers are civil to them and just don't get into discussions with them about it. If they did they could be disciplined for creating a hostile work environment.

So there it is............

.

 

[DaGoose]

It's very simple in the end. Public Unions are not good for the Nation. The System is flawed & failed. It's in their own self-interests to screw Taxpayers over. So why would they stop doing it? It really is a corrupt & very expensive scam. I'm ok with Private-Sector Unions but there should be no Unions in Government period. The Taxpayer always loses in the end. Public Unions should be abolished.

Plus the negotiations are corrupt for the union often gets people elected who are sympathetic to the cause, not the tax payers cause who are footing the bill.

Public Sector unions could be allowed if you allowed a direct referendum to the public on the contract AND barred the unions from ANY organized support or even unorganized endorsements of candidates.

In other words give up their Constitutional rights. Shame on you.

.

 

[DaGoose]

It's very simple in the end. Public Unions are not good for the Nation. The System is flawed & failed. It's in their own self-interests to screw Taxpayers over. So why would they stop doing it? It really is a corrupt & very expensive scam. I'm ok with Private-Sector Unions but there should be no Unions in Government period. The Taxpayer always loses in the end. Public Unions should be abolished.

How much of your tax dollars go to pay local union workers? (Hint: you can find it on your property tax bill)

.

 

[DaGoose]

If all WI communities save money the way the community in the Op is doing I'd be willing to bet Walker will win re-election.

If the jobs come pouring in then no one will even remember the public sector unions.

They will, however, be aware all the money they are saving in taxes.

In four years I'd be willing to bet that Walker wins re-election. Time will tell the tail.

Who's Wislon?

.

Such an ass. You know I meant Walker

I didn't know who you meant. You said Wilson, then said Wislon. I thought there was a twist to the issue I wasn't aware of.

.

 

[Shogun]

Yea... it's working alright.


Wisconsin Fight Moves to Recalls
Wisconsin Fight - WSJ.com

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Public Unions are just one big Shakedown Scam in the end. Someday all Americans will figure this out. The Union Leaders shake their members down and then the members shake the Taxpayers down. And of course the Democratic Party makes it all work. All Public Unions should be abolished as soon as possible. Time for the Taxpayers to fight back.

 

[Shogun]

Public Unions are just one big Shakedown Scam in the end. Someday all Americans will figure this out. The Union Leaders shake their members down and then the members shake the Taxpayers down. And of course the Democratic Party makes it all work. All Public Unions should be abolished as soon as possible. Time for the Taxpayers to fight back.

Save that speech for the militia rally after those republicans are ousted and the governor is forced to leave office.

 

[Big Fitz]

It's very simple in the end. Public Unions are not good for the Nation. The System is flawed & failed. It's in their own self-interests to screw Taxpayers over. So why would they stop doing it? It really is a corrupt & very expensive scam. I'm ok with Private-Sector Unions but there should be no Unions in Government period. The Taxpayer always loses in the end. Public Unions should be abolished.

Plus the negotiations are corrupt for the union often gets people elected who are sympathetic to the cause, not the tax payers cause who are footing the bill.

Public Sector unions could be allowed if you allowed a direct referendum to the public on the contract AND barred the unions from ANY organized support or even unorganized endorsements of candidates.

In other words give up their Constitutional rights. Shame on you.

.

So corruption is a constitutional right now.

Tell me, if Monsanto got former employees or lobbyists or lawyers that worked for them elected to be politicians that then negotiated "against" them and they end up getting billions of dollars in subsidies, would you see this is corrupt?

Hypocrisy in 3...2...1...

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Public Unions are just one big Shakedown Scam in the end. Someday all Americans will figure this out. The Union Leaders shake their members down and then the members shake the Taxpayers down. And of course the Democratic Party makes it all work. All Public Unions should be abolished as soon as possible. Time for the Taxpayers to fight back.

Save that speech for the militia rally after those republicans are ousted and the governor is forced to leave office.

Ah you're just still asleep. But you'll wake up one day. Public Unions are and have been an awful Shakedown Scam for many years. I don't have a problem with Private-Sector Unions but Public Unions have to go. They are not good for this Nation. I think you'll see this one day.

 

[Big Fitz]

Public Unions are just one big Shakedown Scam in the end. Someday all Americans will figure this out. The Union Leaders shake their members down and then the members shake the Taxpayers down. And of course the Democratic Party makes it all work. All Public Unions should be abolished as soon as possible. Time for the Taxpayers to fight back.

Save that speech for the militia rally after those republicans are ousted and the governor is forced to leave office.

Ah you're just still asleep. But you'll wake up one day. Public Unions are and have been an awful Shakedown Scam for many years. I don't have a problem with Private-Sector Unions but Public Unions have to go. They are not good for this Nation. I think you'll see this one day.

Even the patron saint of progressivism FDR was afraid of them and forbade collective bargaining for Gubmint people.

Never underestimate the damage that can be done by stupid people in large numbers.

Then again, I spent this last weekend explaining to a University Chancellor that we are a representative republic, not a democracy and why it's different because he didn't know. So I'm not surprised people don't get this.