Wisconsin Collective Bargaining Law is Working

[Trajan]

For this, you earn some posrep. And that is exactly the foundation of why a minimum wage is superfluous. Now, if we as a nation would enforce our immigration laws, lustily, we would stop the undercutting of fair wages, plus allow them to float upwards quicker and keep with the COLI of each area better.

If you don't want to work under WI law, teaching, don't. Nobody's enslaving you to the job. Find another state. Don't want to do the career you love elsewhere, who's the one limiting you now? You are. Move, or put up with it. Simple, isn't it?

when kennedy then wagner of NYC made their moves to sppt. public unionizing it was for one reason and one only- votes.

civil service has a set of codes and laws, the deal on working pre 1960 and after in places that did not till forced to allow public unionization was the implicit exchange or agreement of a job for pretty much life and a decent salary and a decent working environment...history did not start in 1960.

the paradigm changed becasue they was huge voting block waiting to be created and then the entitlement mentality the very thing meany and fdr feared took over, and here we are, see, they have to have it now because they deserve it, why ? because the union says so......

You know what the greatest bane is right now though? The end of the baby boom generation that busts the ponzi scheme known as the leftist playbook.

agreed. obama would be better off taking a tac from christie, standing up there and just saying hey, I am not the guy that promised you a never ending benefits utopia, I am just the guy who has to tell you, we are broke and the party is over. he'd be re-elected in a walk.

The left has spent years trying to hide or obfuscate this day and of course, they have failed, as they were bound too.

Obama will try though to just kick the can, even the NY times knows this as well as wapo etc. the numbers won't work, they never were going to work.

 

[Trajan]

Excuse me? "Thankful to the Taxpayers who pay her salary"???? Do you walk up to your boss and tell him (or her) "Thank You" and kiss his or her ass for paying you money that your worked for and earned?

As for "All Weekends Off,Several Weeks of Holiday Time Off,and entire Summers Off" she gets paid for days worked and her salary reflects that. Her 9 month salary is spread out over 12 months. Period.

.

.

Yes,she should be thankful to the Taxpayers. They have provided her with a comfortable living. I think that's pretty straight-forward and easy to comprehend. Most Teacher Union-types seem to have a contempt for the Taxpayers who pay their salaries. And that's just wrong and unacceptable. I am glad your wife enjoys her job and hopefully is grateful to the Taxpayers. But that hasn't been my experience with most Teachers. Also,most other American Workers really would love to enjoy the benefits Teachers enjoy. So their "Woe is Me" routine is getting pretty old & stale. They don't have it so bad. It's time for them to actually thank Taxpayers for what they have instead of always complaining. Their constant whining is only hurting them in the end. The People have had enough.

Bullshit. Plain bullshit.

She was hired to provide a service for a set salary. She fulfills her bargain and expects to be compensated as agreed. So gratitude is not exactly called for when she delivers a fair days work for a fair days wage. That way everyone wins and can hold their head up. To expect her to kiss anyone's ass (or for anyone to kiss hers) is asinine just because they both held up their end of the agreement.

I can just picture you going into the boss's office and kneeling down in gratitude just because they paid you for your labor. Around here we have a bit more pride than that.

As for "most other American Workers really would love to enjoy the benefits Teachers enjoy"? I too would like her schedule and not have to work swing shift where I have to change shifts every week, rotate days off and work in heat that makes most people forget their fear of hell. But guess what? She went to college, worked for it and can now reap the benefits of all her hard work. I'm proud of what she has accomplished. But anyone else can do what she has done instead of sitting around crying about it, right?

.

*sigh*

She went to college, worked for it and can now reap the benefits of all her hard work.

I would like you to read this and then think a minute , please.

- her skills are only worth what the market will bear.

Do you understand that?

An alike office job for a private firm daren't pay such Total Compensation for equal skills. The union has artificially raised her TC level. The market, i.e. the state, county etc. can no longer bear it and just as the private office worker that went 2-3 years without a raise and has been paying higher med. costs every year, the teacher is finally, now, going to have to bend to market forces, in this instance the Union means diddly, its just a middleman.

Now, you will say hey they said they would, they agreed, great, the reason, which you appear unable to fathom, re-certification etc. was enacted is to stop or make it harder for the same situation to rise again where in that teachers TC overran what the market will and can bear by providing; a) a choice , b) they can if they wish keep their union dues, c) disallowing that kind of political capital from being amassed solely to browbeat and buy politicians who feel free to provide benefit, via PUBLIC dollars, in exchange for votes.


and lets keep in mind- the teachers, union members of whatever vocation, are still free to keep their pumped up salaries etc. as they stand, they still get defined pension for retirement, do they not? They will get a raise anyway tied to the inflation index at least? I went a total of 4 years with squat in my last private firm job. Not cola , zip squat nada.

 

[Trajan]

Please show me even one post I ever made where I slammed corporations for making political donations.

Forget it, then. But don't pretend other unions supporters don't.

You really think unions' political activities are being financed with only 3 bucks a month per member?

He can opt out, but not fully. Some of his money is still financing political activities he doesn't support.

Uh huh. Good luck with that.

I care about people getting the representation they pay for. Conservative union members aren't, obviously.

You don't give a shit, though, since the Dems are benefiting.

And if it's none of my business, neither is it yours.

So again....union members do not all vote Dem like you contended......you were WRONG. Get over it and admit it.

.

I didn't say ALL union members vote Dem. Strawman fail.

However, this is interesting:

• Democratic performance with union voters is both reliable and
remarkably static—in each of the past four presidential elections, 59
percent of union voters cast their ballot for Democratic presidential
candidate. In 2008, voters in union households provided 24 percent of
the total votes President Obama received.

• Moderates in union households account for the Democratic tilt of
union voters. By a margin of 14-points, moderates in union households
were more likely to vote for a Democratic House candidate in 2008
than non-union moderates. Union and non-union liberals, however,
were equally likely to vote for a Democrat.​

"Moderate" union members aren't perhaps as moderate as they think.

And the entire paper really illustrates how out-of-touch union leadership is with their members where the unions' political activities are concerned.

Ok....so union members tend to vote for those who best represents their interests. Color me SHOCKED.

But again. It's none of our fucking business, is it?

.

glad to see you admit that the union basically has bribed their membership by bribing elected officials who gave the unions raises & benes so the leadership looks good and the politicos get the votes.


Its the state taxpayers and it appears, they have spoken. *shrugs*

 

[Trajan]

My wife's a teacher and she doesn't whine not has she been trained or indoctrinated to whine. She gets no fantastic perks nor does she claim she has it bad.

So Fuck You.

.

Is she a member of a Teacher Union? And don't lie. Also,Teachers do enjoy fantastic perks no other Professions enjoy. So Fuck You.

Yes she is a member of the teacher's union. She has a Master's Degree and has been teaching special education for more than 20 years. For that she gets $53,000 per year, medical insurance and a $28,000 a year pension that she has to contribue toward.

So you are WRONG when you offer a blanket observation regarding all teachers. So Fuck You.

.

what do you pay for rent ............or a mortgage ? may I ask? if you don't pay on a house what was your highest mortgage payment?

you do realize the value in that defined free of market forces pension plan is waaay bigger than the 28k cash face value, right? Oh and do you get any part of that pension if she passes on ahead of you? hummmm?

 

[initforme]

"Personally i think Governor Walker has been very brave on this. He's trying to save all of Wisconsin's People and not just special interest Public Union People. He's trying to save an entire State."

Now if that were true I would also think more of the governor. However, balancing the budget has been thrust on the backs of a few, and not everybody is paying their fair share. The corporations are getting tax breaks. Any moron can see the Koch brothers are in complete control. Walker was very quick in answering some prank call he thought was one of them, while refusing to answer other calls. What about the police unions and the firemen's unions? Why were they spared. This bill was never about balancing the budget. It was about busting up the unions. And walker has succeeded. I have told my daughter who is a teacher that if they are going to pay you less then work less. Dont take those papers home at night anymore. No more weekends. Less interesting lessons. Get out the books and the worksheets. Drone on and on. Thats what they want now.

 

[initforme]

Dagoose,

just remember those who are so critical of your wife would be reduced to tears and nervous breakdowns within minutes of trying to do her job. But I guess it would be good for them to see what kind of mess teachers have to deal with every day. A cross section of america is a scary thing nowadays.

 

[bripat9643]

Teachers just whine too much. That's been my experience anyway. I blame the Unions & Democrats for this. They have created Entitlement Frankensteins with America's Teachers. Most are trained and indoctrinated to bitch about everything. The fact is,they don't have it nearly as bad as they claim. Take a closer look at all their fantastic perks and you'll see this. Teachers need to stop all the complaining and just get to work. The Children are depending on them.

My wife's a teacher and she doesn't whine not has she been trained or indoctrinated to whine. She gets no fantastic perks nor does she claim she has it bad.

So Fuck You.

How did we know that you or a member of your family was sucking on the government tit?

Teachers get excellent perks. They have the best health insurance in the world, and they also get great retirment benefits. No one in the private sector gets benefits like that.

So fuck you.

 

[bripat9643]

Dagoose,

just remember those who are so critical of your wife would be reduced to tears and nervous breakdowns within minutes of trying to do her job. But I guess it would be good for them to see what kind of mess teachers have to deal with every day. A cross section of america is a scary thing nowadays.

That's purely a conceit of a tic on the ass of society, and it has no basis in reality. Teachers have one of the easiest jobs in the world. I know because teachers have told me that. I met quite a few of them working summer jobs.

 

[DaGoose]

Yes,she should be thankful to the Taxpayers. They have provided her with a comfortable living. I think that's pretty straight-forward and easy to comprehend. Most Teacher Union-types seem to have a contempt for the Taxpayers who pay their salaries. And that's just wrong and unacceptable. I am glad your wife enjoys her job and hopefully is grateful to the Taxpayers. But that hasn't been my experience with most Teachers. Also,most other American Workers really would love to enjoy the benefits Teachers enjoy. So their "Woe is Me" routine is getting pretty old & stale. They don't have it so bad. It's time for them to actually thank Taxpayers for what they have instead of always complaining. Their constant whining is only hurting them in the end. The People have had enough.

Bullshit. Plain bullshit.

She was hired to provide a service for a set salary. She fulfills her bargain and expects to be compensated as agreed. So gratitude is not exactly called for when she delivers a fair days work for a fair days wage. That way everyone wins and can hold their head up. To expect her to kiss anyone's ass (or for anyone to kiss hers) is asinine just because they both held up their end of the agreement.

I can just picture you going into the boss's office and kneeling down in gratitude just because they paid you for your labor. Around here we have a bit more pride than that.

As for "most other American Workers really would love to enjoy the benefits Teachers enjoy"? I too would like her schedule and not have to work swing shift where I have to change shifts every week, rotate days off and work in heat that makes most people forget their fear of hell. But guess what? She went to college, worked for it and can now reap the benefits of all her hard work. I'm proud of what she has accomplished. But anyone else can do what she has done instead of sitting around crying about it, right?

.

*sigh*

She went to college, worked for it and can now reap the benefits of all her hard work.

I would like you to read this and then think a minute , please.

- her skills are only worth what the market will bear.

Do you understand that?

An alike office job for a private firm daren't pay such Total Compensation for equal skills. The union has artificially raised her TC level. The market, i.e. the state, county etc. can no longer bear it and just as the private office worker that went 2-3 years without a raise and has been paying higher med. costs every year, the teacher is finally, now, going to have to bend to market forces, in this instance the Union means diddly, its just a middleman.

Now, you will say hey they said they would, they agreed, great, the reason, which you appear unable to fathom, re-certification etc. was enacted is to stop or make it harder for the same situation to rise again where in that teachers TC overran what the market will and can bear by providing; a) a choice , b) they can if they wish keep their union dues, c) disallowing that kind of political capital from being amassed solely to browbeat and buy politicians who feel free to provide benefit, via PUBLIC dollars, in exchange for votes.


and lets keep in mind- the teachers, union members of whatever vocation, are still free to keep their pumped up salaries etc. as they stand, they still get defined pension for retirement, do they not? They will get a raise anyway tied to the inflation index at least? I went a total of 4 years with squat in my last private firm job. Not cola , zip squat nada.

Pumped up salaries compared to what market? The private market? She could make a lot more the 53K in the private sector with a Master's Degree wouldn't you agree? If not then you're full of shit.

She went to school and got her Masters to do what she wanted, which was teach. That's where her heart is and with my salary (which is considerable) she can do what she wants.

If you went a total of 4 years with "zip, squat, nada" that's YOUR fault buster. Don't come on here and cry about it to us. Want a hanky?

.

 

[DaGoose]

Dagoose,

just remember those who are so critical of your wife would be reduced to tears and nervous breakdowns within minutes of trying to do her job. But I guess it would be good for them to see what kind of mess teachers have to deal with every day. A cross section of america is a scary thing nowadays.

That's purely a conceit of a tic on the ass of society, and it has no basis in reality. Teachers have one of the easiest jobs in the world. I know because teachers have told me that. I met quite a few of them working summer jobs.

I call bullshit on the first part. As for the latter part I'm guessing that many of them were working summer jobs to make ends meet.

.

 

[DaGoose]

Teachers just whine too much. That's been my experience anyway. I blame the Unions & Democrats for this. They have created Entitlement Frankensteins with America's Teachers. Most are trained and indoctrinated to bitch about everything. The fact is,they don't have it nearly as bad as they claim. Take a closer look at all their fantastic perks and you'll see this. Teachers need to stop all the complaining and just get to work. The Children are depending on them.

My wife's a teacher and she doesn't whine not has she been trained or indoctrinated to whine. She gets no fantastic perks nor does she claim she has it bad.

So Fuck You.

How did we know that you or a member of your family was sucking on the government tit?

Teachers get excellent perks. They have the best health insurance in the world, and they also get great retirment benefits. No one in the private sector gets benefits like that.

So fuck you.

No, Fuck You. Many people in the private sector get good insurance and retirement benefits and many get better than her. And if you don't that tells me plenty about YOUR job skills.

Uhh....BTW, what's YOUR Master's Degree in fuckface?

.

 

[DaGoose]

Is she a member of a Teacher Union? And don't lie. Also,Teachers do enjoy fantastic perks no other Professions enjoy. So Fuck You.

Yes she is a member of the teacher's union. She has a Master's Degree and has been teaching special education for more than 20 years. For that she gets $53,000 per year, medical insurance and a $28,000 a year pension that she has to contribue toward.

So you are WRONG when you offer a blanket observation regarding all teachers. So Fuck You.

.

what do you pay for rent ............or a mortgage ? may I ask? if you don't pay on a house what was your highest mortgage payment?

you do realize the value in that defined free of market forces pension plan is waaay bigger than the 28k cash face value, right? Oh and do you get any part of that pension if she passes on ahead of you? hummmm?

My house is paid for so what's it to you?

Yes, I get a survivor benefit from her pension just like she does mine. What's your point?

.

 

[Cimerian]

Is she a member of a Teacher Union? And don't lie. Also,Teachers do enjoy fantastic perks no other Professions enjoy. So Fuck You.

Yes she is a member of the teacher's union. She has a Master's Degree and has been teaching special education for more than 20 years. For that she gets $53,000 per year, medical insurance and a $28,000 a year pension that she has to contribue toward.

So you are WRONG when you offer a blanket observation regarding all teachers. So Fuck You.

.

what do you pay for rent ............or a mortgage ? may I ask? if you don't pay on a house what was your highest mortgage payment?

you do realize the value in that defined free of market forces pension plan is waaay bigger than the 28k cash face value, right? Oh and do you get any part of that pension if she passes on ahead of you? hummmm?

Teacher work days 186 on average
- 12 payed holidays
- 12 vacation days
- 5 sick days
- 4 personal days
=153 work days/year


Private work days 252
-6 payed holidays
-6 vacation days
-2 sick days
=238 work days/yr

x private/238 days = 53k teacher/153 days

X = 82444

So your teacher wife has an 82k/yr job with paid for medical and retirement? And what are you bitching about? Are you really saying your wife is underpaid? I would say she is overpaid.

 

[DaGoose]

Not to mention they are a money machine for the Democrats. No fairness in that...
I'd bet most public union and private union members do not like the unions or the Democrats. They fair of them..

I believe what we are seeing is the beginning of the end of Unions as we have known them.
I also think the welfare system is going to change in a big way.

So when teachers make less money and have fewer benefits,

how is that going to cause kids to learn better?

They made less with fewer benefits 60 years ago and kids learned better.

60 years ago parents more of an active part in their kids education.

.

 

[Big Fitz]

Teachers just whine too much. That's been my experience anyway. I blame the Unions & Democrats for this. They have created Entitlement Frankensteins with America's Teachers. Most are trained and indoctrinated to bitch about everything. The fact is,they don't have it nearly as bad as they claim. Take a closer look at all their fantastic perks and you'll see this. Teachers need to stop all the complaining and just get to work. The Children are depending on them.

My wife's a teacher and she doesn't whine not has she been trained or indoctrinated to whine. She gets no fantastic perks nor does she claim she has it bad.

So Fuck You.

.

huh... the goose got his feathers ruffled.

 

[DaGoose]

Yes she is a member of the teacher's union. She has a Master's Degree and has been teaching special education for more than 20 years. For that she gets $53,000 per year, medical insurance and a $28,000 a year pension that she has to contribue toward.

So you are WRONG when you offer a blanket observation regarding all teachers. So Fuck You.

.

what do you pay for rent ............or a mortgage ? may I ask? if you don't pay on a house what was your highest mortgage payment?

you do realize the value in that defined free of market forces pension plan is waaay bigger than the 28k cash face value, right? Oh and do you get any part of that pension if she passes on ahead of you? hummmm?

Teacher work days 186 on average
- 12 payed holidays
- 12 vacation days
- 5 sick days
- 4 personal days
=153 work days/year


Private work days 252
-6 payed holidays
-6 vacation days
-2 sick days
=238 work days/yr

x private/238 days = 53k teacher/153 days

X = 82444

So your teacher wife has an 82k/yr job with paid for medical and retirement? And what are you bitching about? Are you really saying your wife is underpaid? I would say she is overpaid.

That would vary from district to district, dumbass. Why am I not surprised you didn't know that? My wife gets no vacation days but does get sick and personal days.

And even if she did average 82K a year why would that be overpaid? How much should a person with a Masters Degree earn? I make over 82K and all I have is a HS diploma.

.

 

[Againsheila]

Nope. Just espousing the truth. America has a vendetta against teachers. Must be the summers off. Those that are critical could never handle a classroom full of roudy american children of which a large percentage are unruly because american parenting nowadays is garbage.

"Most kids cannot read, write, or spell much less compose a cogent paragraph. "

You're right. Points to total lack of parenting at home.

One of those things that make you go "hmm".

I thought it was the job of the teachers to teach the reading, writing and arithmetic. If that's not their job, what is their job????

 

[Trajan]

Bullshit. Plain bullshit.

She was hired to provide a service for a set salary. She fulfills her bargain and expects to be compensated as agreed. So gratitude is not exactly called for when she delivers a fair days work for a fair days wage. That way everyone wins and can hold their head up. To expect her to kiss anyone's ass (or for anyone to kiss hers) is asinine just because they both held up their end of the agreement.

I can just picture you going into the boss's office and kneeling down in gratitude just because they paid you for your labor. Around here we have a bit more pride than that.

As for "most other American Workers really would love to enjoy the benefits Teachers enjoy"? I too would like her schedule and not have to work swing shift where I have to change shifts every week, rotate days off and work in heat that makes most people forget their fear of hell. But guess what? She went to college, worked for it and can now reap the benefits of all her hard work. I'm proud of what she has accomplished. But anyone else can do what she has done instead of sitting around crying about it, right?

.

*sigh*

She went to college, worked for it and can now reap the benefits of all her hard work.

I would like you to read this and then think a minute , please.

- her skills are only worth what the market will bear.

Do you understand that?

An alike office job for a private firm daren't pay such Total Compensation for equal skills. The union has artificially raised her TC level. The market, i.e. the state, county etc. can no longer bear it and just as the private office worker that went 2-3 years without a raise and has been paying higher med. costs every year, the teacher is finally, now, going to have to bend to market forces, in this instance the Union means diddly, its just a middleman.

Now, you will say hey they said they would, they agreed, great, the reason, which you appear unable to fathom, re-certification etc. was enacted is to stop or make it harder for the same situation to rise again where in that teachers TC overran what the market will and can bear by providing; a) a choice , b) they can if they wish keep their union dues, c) disallowing that kind of political capital from being amassed solely to browbeat and buy politicians who feel free to provide benefit, via PUBLIC dollars, in exchange for votes.


and lets keep in mind- the teachers, union members of whatever vocation, are still free to keep their pumped up salaries etc. as they stand, they still get defined pension for retirement, do they not? They will get a raise anyway tied to the inflation index at least? I went a total of 4 years with squat in my last private firm job. Not cola , zip squat nada.

Pumped up salaries compared to what market? The private market? She could make a lot more the 53K in the private sector with a Master's Degree wouldn't you agree? If not then you're full of shit.

She went to school and got her Masters to do what she wanted, which was teach. That's where her heart is and with my salary (which is considerable) she can do what she wants.

If you went a total of 4 years with "zip, squat, nada" that's YOUR fault buster. Don't come on here and cry about it to us. Want a hanky?

.

I see you cannot maintain any civility for long.

seems to come with the territory. To bad.
I tried.

Cimerian whom I will rep momentarily just answered for me and and made the same observation I was going to.

 

[thereisnospoon]

You mean when we cut the pay to teachers, we can pay them less?

Wow. What a revelation.

Didn't you get the memo? Teachers aren't as valuable in the 21st century, because an educated workforce isn't as important in the 21st century.

In Atlanta the teachers falsified grades to make it look like they where actually doing good job, this news just broke the other day, did you not hear about it? These are the teachers that need to go away, not the good teachers.
BTW, my brother is a teacher.

Over 170 of them. I believe this cheating scandal goes a lot deeper than just the teachers. I think the cheating was sanctioned from the top management level of the school system.
Lots of heads need to roll. This is a crime of the highest order. A crime against the kids of Atlanta's public schools and a crime against the public trust.
I think the Atlanta School Board members should be investigated as well.
As far as I am concerned, everyone connected with the school system is a suspect until they are cleared.

 

[Big Fitz]

Yes she is a member of the teacher's union. She has a Master's Degree and has been teaching special education for more than 20 years. For that she gets $53,000 per year, medical insurance and a $28,000 a year pension that she has to contribue toward.

So you are WRONG when you offer a blanket observation regarding all teachers. So Fuck You.

.

I said that has been my experience. Most Teachers do seem to whine quite a bit. And especially the Teacher Union-types. But bully for your wife if she actually enjoys her job and is thankful to the Taxpayers who pay her salary. That hasn't been my experience with most Teachers though. Most other American Workers would kill for All Weekends Off,Several Weeks of Holiday Time Off,and entire Summers Off. I'm just saying that me and many other Americans are sick of Teachers whining about everything all the time. They don't have it nearly as bad as they claim. Time for them to just shut up and do their jobs.

Excuse me? "Thankful to the Taxpayers who pay her salary"???? Do you walk up to your boss and tell him (or her) "Thank You" and kiss his or her ass for paying you money that your worked for and earned?

As for "All Weekends Off,Several Weeks of Holiday Time Off,and entire Summers Off" she gets paid for days worked and her salary reflects that. Her 9 month salary is spread out over 12 months. Period.

.

.

cute. Your point is she's getting a raw deal from the State of IL and your local Municipality? Easy solution. Quit and get a job in the private sector that pays better, or leave the state or work for a charter school that she can get a better contract with.

life sucks so hard for her.