You May Not Have Electricity This Winter

[Clementine]

With that perpetual cloud of doom that hangs over you progressives, I don't think that is a sound plan on your part.

That's a hilarious thing to say, considering the prophecies of doom and gloom of the OP. It is the Right that is profoundly pessimistic and whiny these days.

It is not the right that is using government to fix thousands of nonexistent problems in the country. It is the left, with their "we're doomed if we don't regulate this, or give this group special rights, or we have to do this because the evil republicans are going to take it away from you, mentality.

A bigger group [the left] of doom-Sayers as never existed.

EEEEK! OBAMAZ CUMMIN FER YER GUNZ!

EEEEK! TH3 GAYZ ARE CUMMIN!

EEEK! FEMA DHS ARMY IS CUMMIN FER YOO!

EEEEK! YOU WON'T HAVE LECTRICITY THIS WINTER!

EEEEK! HONDURIN GANGSTA KIDS WITH EBOLA ARE CUMMIN!


Yeah. Like that. On and on and on with the fearmongering.

After you have had a comfortable winter, don't forget the righties who pissed in their pants in this topic.

Many on the left have admitted that they don't think citizens should have guns and they constantly claim that only government regulated militias should have them. Some might actually take that as liberals wanting to take their guns away.

Federal agencies have become more militarized, as have police. Recently, EPA agents who were armed to the teeth showed up to confiscate a vehicle that they worried might not meet standards. A letter to the owner would have sufficed, but it was probably more fun for armed agents to storm the residence.

Those, especially in the South, that have relied solely on coal for heating their homes do face some hardships. The cost of electricity will necessarily skyrocket, just as Obama said it would. Even though most states have laws against shutting off electricity during cold months, that won't stop people from facing a mountain of bills at the end of winter or risk having their services shut off.

Haven't heard anyone mention gangsta kids. There have been cases of ebola and I read that some colleges are talking about testing students for ebola. I guess some feel that it's dangerous and think it's a good idea to contain any risk. What was a concern was the number of children with scabbies and head lice, things you cannot be immunized against and things that are highly contagious. Seems reasonable to be concerned about that and the fact that the illegal aliens were being transported on public transportation without being asked for IDs. The regular security was bypassed for people when we didn't know who they were. Seems strange to me.

Republicans have been criticized for a long of so-called fear mongering. Like claiming that Russia would be a problem or that withdrawing troops from Iraq might not be a good idea. Some Republicans called Obama a liar for saying illegal aliens wouldn't be covered by Obamacare or for claiming that if we liked our plans and doctor we could keep them. Yup, many on the left ridiculed those who said such things and then weren't apologetic when those things turned out to be true.

Meanwhile, the left continues to claim Repubs want dirty air, water and want people to eat poison food. That is what you call fear mongering.

 

[Silhouette]

What does any of this have to do with solar thermal steam to cogenerate with existing fossil fuel electric plants?

 

[Silhouette]

This technology is so simple and every kid knows what focusing the sun's rays does with a magnifyer. The only reason we haven't seen it tacked onto every power plant around is political. Our atmosphere collapsing, climate change, increased hurricanes, tornado storms, overall temperatures... If we had employed this technology back in the mid-20th Century when we already knew about it, we would not be where we are today. But some men got rich and many of them are dead and gone. I guess that's all that matters.

 

[Silhouette]

Those, especially in the South, that have relied solely on coal for heating their homes do face some hardships. The cost of electricity will necessarily skyrocket, just as Obama said it would. Even though most states have laws against shutting off electricity during cold months, that won't stop people from facing a mountain of bills at the end of winter or risk having their services shut off....

Especially the South eh? You mean the place where the most average sunshine falls each year, Spring, Summer, Fall and Winter? You may have noticed that the steam pot in the youtube video above boiled quickly in LITHUANIA [get out a world atlas or globe] in the DEAD OF WINTER. You think maybe Mississippi or Louisiana might have more sun during the Winter day than Lithuania?

Don't be a steam bigot. Those turbines don't care where the steam comes from. They spin no matter where it comes from.

 

[Redfish]

Those, especially in the South, that have relied solely on coal for heating their homes do face some hardships. The cost of electricity will necessarily skyrocket, just as Obama said it would. Even though most states have laws against shutting off electricity during cold months, that won't stop people from facing a mountain of bills at the end of winter or risk having their services shut off....

Especially the South eh? You mean the place where the most average sunshine falls each year, Spring, Summer, Fall and Winter? You may have noticed that the steam pot in the youtube video above boiled quickly in LITHUANIA [get out a world atlas or globe] in the DEAD OF WINTER. You think maybe Mississippi or Louisiana might have more sun during the Winter day than Lithuania?

Don't be a steam bigot. Those turbines don't care where the steam comes from. They spin no matter where it comes from.

the envirowackos blocked such a plant in California because it might disturb th habitat of a lizard. and the idiotic california judges supported them. Wonder why we aren't doing smart energy things? Libtardia.

 

[HenryBHough]

Hey, lizards are people, too (in California) so why should they not be appointed as judges? After all, they're easily elected to the state legislature.....

 

[Silhouette]

Those, especially in the South, that have relied solely on coal for heating their homes do face some hardships. The cost of electricity will necessarily skyrocket, just as Obama said it would. Even though most states have laws against shutting off electricity during cold months, that won't stop people from facing a mountain of bills at the end of winter or risk having their services shut off....

Especially the South eh? You mean the place where the most average sunshine falls each year, Spring, Summer, Fall and Winter? You may have noticed that the steam pot in the youtube video above boiled quickly in LITHUANIA [get out a world atlas or globe] in the DEAD OF WINTER. You think maybe Mississippi or Louisiana might have more sun during the Winter day than Lithuania?

Don't be a steam bigot. Those turbines don't care where the steam comes from. They spin no matter where it comes from.

the envirowackos blocked such a plant in California because it might disturb th habitat of a lizard. and the idiotic california judges supported them. Wonder why we aren't doing smart energy things? Libtardia.

Or, BigOil posing as "environmentalists" [or at least spurring them on and backing their campaign financially] got the project blocked....

...They've got so much money invested in fossil fuel they're afraid to make the jump to solar steam. The answer is really simple. They just need to pad a few pockets in high places like usual and ask for the rights to a monopoly on centralized power distribution using solar steam/carbon hybrid plants charging the same rates. It's a win-win. The atmosphere gets less damage per year, the oil mafiosos get to keep their inhuman amounts of wealth [you know, that they'll take when them when they expire]. And solar steam will create more jobs in maintaining the mirrors and manufacturing during the boom where huge parabolic farms can be erected in the West and Southwest.

As far as habitat destruction of the deserts, that's a laugh. The most animal and plant life to be found in deserts are found in the shade of some object. You'll have more lizards, tortoises, hares, foxes, kangaroo rats, rattlesnakes, coyotes and ravens in the Southwest than you'll know what to do with if you build more shade for them [solar thermal farms]...

 

[Erand7899]

Silhouette wrote:
No, solar thermal isn't even in the same league as solar PV panels. One creates steam from the sun. The other creates a relatively weak electric current from the sun. One is the same workhorse that coal, oil and nuclear plants use. The other a completely different technology more suited for localized and dispersed power generations.
Don't hate on solar thermal steam like suddenly the principles of physics are suspended if the steam comes from concentrated sunlight year round when it's shining.. Steam is steam bro. And every minute you produce it from the sun is a minute you don't have to spend buying, mining, refining, transporting and burning fossil fuels.
________________________________________________

And that is why we have thousands of large solar steam projects under construction. Right?

Perhaps the people, who could make fortunes on cheap, alternative energy, see a different risk/reward calculation from the one you project.

 

[HenryBHough]

Logic and financial responsibility have nothing to do with solar steam punk.

It's all about emotion.

Once you accept that it all becomes understandable.

 

[Erand7899]

Silhouette wrote:
This technology is so simple and every kid knows what focusing the sun's rays does with a magnifyer. The only reason we haven't seen it tacked onto every power plant around is political. Our atmosphere collapsing, climate change, increased hurricanes, tornado storms, overall temperatures... If we had employed this technology back in the mid-20th Century when we already knew about it, we would not be where we are today. But some men got rich and many of them are dead and gone. I guess that's all that matters.
__________________________________

The technology is not in place today, because it is still not cost effective. No semi-intelligent power plant operator is going to ignore a cheaper method of generating steam, just because they love coal or gas.

There is no grand conspiracy to keep us dependent upon fossil fuels. You can bet your purple bippy that thousands of electrical engineers have been watching, and/or experimenting with all forms of alternative energy possibilities, and the accountants have been pricing out the financial costs and benefits. When the numbers bear out the investment, solar thermal energy will be put in play.

 

[Silhouette]

Silhouette wrote:
This technology is so simple and every kid knows what focusing the sun's rays does with a magnifyer. The only reason we haven't seen it tacked onto every power plant around is political. Our atmosphere collapsing, climate change, increased hurricanes, tornado storms, overall temperatures... If we had employed this technology back in the mid-20th Century when we already knew about it, we would not be where we are today. But some men got rich and many of them are dead and gone. I guess that's all that matters.
__________________________________

The technology is not in place today, because it is still not cost effective. No semi-intelligent power plant operator is going to ignore a cheaper method of generating steam, just because they love coal or gas.

There is no grand conspiracy to keep us dependent upon fossil fuels. You can bet your purple bippy that thousands of electrical engineers have been watching, and/or experimenting with all forms of alternative energy possibilities, and the accountants have been pricing out the financial costs and benefits. When the numbers bear out the investment, solar thermal energy will be put in play.

No but a greedy one might take some "look the other way" money to keep the status quo. There is a grand conspiracy to keep us addicted to fossil fuels. It's a fact. It's been so longstanding and so obvious that you really look silly denying it.

All you have to do is look at the catalytic converter that smart engineers [mind you] worked up for the BigOil/Auto industry back in the day. How clever eh? Burn the fuel AFTER the power stroke and add a bunch of dragging pulleys to the motor to boot. "Look green" AND get the chumps to buy more of your product just to push their hulking whale down the highway a mile. Platinum isn't choosey about where it catalyizes fuel to burn more efficiently. Are you going to try to argue next that those engineers didn't realize the car would be more efficient if you introduced particulate platinum to push the car forward instead of causing it to burn MORE gas per mile?

If that isn't evidence of a conspiracy, nothing is...

 

[Silhouette]

Don't want to talk about those catalytic converters sitting in the exhaust system, do you?

 

[Silhouette]

The oxidation catalyst is the second stage of the catalytic converter. It reduces the unburned hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide by burning (oxidizing) them over a platinum and palladium catalyst. This catalyst aids the reaction of the CO and hydrocarbons with the remaining oxygen in the exhaust gas. HowStuffWorks Catalysts

It more thoroughly burns the unburned fuel in the exhaust gas...

Wouldn't it be prudent to more thoroughly burn the fuel in the combustion chambers? Yes, of course it would. But I'm sure the old engineers who developed the catalytic converter never thought of that....just an oversight, right?

No conspiracy with BigOil at all. Just an engineering oversight.

 

[Picaro]

Well, this 'War On Coal' will certainly be news to Warren Buffet, given his investments in his railroad monopoly through coal regions and his ownership of power plants in the West. He is also behind the opposition to more pipelines, like the Keystone, due to his lucrative rail shipping business that stuff by rail. In any case, there is a massive glut in natural gas production, it's being burned off by the billions of cubic feet because of the lack of regulations restricting drilling humongous overproduction, so this is another 'energy crisis' that doesn't exist, much like the shortage hoax in the late 1970's.

 

[Silhouette]

Well, this 'War On Coal' will certainly be news to Warren Buffet, given his investments in his railroad monopoly through coal regions and his ownership of power plants in the West. He is also behind the opposition to more pipelines, like the Keystone, due to his lucrative rail shipping business that stuff by rail. In any case, there is a massive glut in natural gas production, it's being burned off by the billions of cubic feet because of the lack of regulations restricting drilling humongous overproduction, so this is another 'energy crisis' that doesn't exist, much like the shortage hoax in the late 1970's.

The bigger concern of course is what this is doing to the earth's macroclimate and microclimates. Why not design cars to be more efficient by introducing particulate platinum in the power stroke, for example?

Or design all power plants to have mandatory solar thermal steam cogenerators working every day the sun shines? You go the same number of miles in a car and produce the same amount of electricity by burdening the atmosphere less with carbon. Seems like a win-win to me. All but for those getting rich off the overuse of carbon products...

 

[Erand7899]

Don't want to talk about those catalytic converters sitting in the exhaust system, do you?

I don't know enough about catalytic converters to discuss them in any cogent manner. However, your concept that all of the mechanical engineers, and auto companies in the world are engaged in a secret conspiracy with the oil companies, is so far out as to be nutty.

 

[Erand7899]

Well, this 'War On Coal' will certainly be news to Warren Buffet, given his investments in his railroad monopoly through coal regions and his ownership of power plants in the West. He is also behind the opposition to more pipelines, like the Keystone, due to his lucrative rail shipping business that stuff by rail. In any case, there is a massive glut in natural gas production, it's being burned off by the billions of cubic feet because of the lack of regulations restricting drilling humongous overproduction, so this is another 'energy crisis' that doesn't exist, much like the shortage hoax in the late 1970's.

The bigger concern of course is what this is doing to the earth's macroclimate and microclimates. Why not design cars to be more efficient by introducing particulate platinum in the power stroke, for example?

Or design all power plants to have mandatory solar thermal steam cogenerators working every day the sun shines? You go the same number of miles in a car and produce the same amount of electricity by burdening the atmosphere less with carbon. Seems like a win-win to me. All but for those getting rich off the overuse of carbon products...

First, platinum is a very expensive metal, and that has to be taken into account. Second, if platinum could be used effectively and at a reasonable cost to improve engine performance, it would already be in your engine. Third, for such a vast conspiracy to exist, over such a long period of time, governments would also have to be involved. Consequently, your call for governments to mandate a correction, would be laughable.

 

[Jarlaxle]

The oxidation catalyst is the second stage of the catalytic converter. It reduces the unburned hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide by burning (oxidizing) them over a platinum and palladium catalyst. This catalyst aids the reaction of the CO and hydrocarbons with the remaining oxygen in the exhaust gas. HowStuffWorks Catalysts

It more thoroughly burns the unburned fuel in the exhaust gas...

Wouldn't it be prudent to more thoroughly burn the fuel in the combustion chambers? Yes, of course it would. But I'm sure the old engineers who developed the catalytic converter never thought of that....just an oversight, right?

No conspiracy with BigOil at all. Just an engineering oversight.

You just CANNOT burn all the fuel in the cylinder. Just not possible...modern engines are damn close, but you can never get it all. Even with modern designs, you cannot eliminate all the crevice volume in the cylinder. What little gets through, the catalyst deals with. Modern catalysts are not an exhaust flow restriction...my wife's car is cranking out 800+HP through a catalyst!

Lean-burning engines DO use less fuel...that is how some Hondas from 15-20 years ago got such spectacular mileage. But running lean also raises cylinder temperatures...which produces oxides of nitrogen. EGR helps tame it, but it's not enough. Tightened NOX standards in, IIRC, 1996 put the kibosh on LB engines.

Note that the tailpipe emissions of a modern car are damn close to zero. In fact, when my Magnum (2007, Tier II ULEV) was last checked, it blew zero across the board. 350 horsepower, 80,000 miles on the catalysts...and blew zero. No nitrogen oxides, no carbon monoxide, no unburned fuel. The guy was so surprised, he ran the test again...same result.

 

[Silhouette]

Don't want to talk about those catalytic converters sitting in the exhaust system, do you?

I don't know enough about catalytic converters to discuss them in any cogent manner. However, your concept that all of the mechanical engineers, and auto companies in the world are engaged in a secret conspiracy with the oil companies, is so far out as to be nutty.

The catalytic converter isn't complicated at all. It just uses very fine, nearly atomic level contact between a catalyst metal like platinum and the unburned hydrocarbons and via the magic of chemistry causes them to burn more completely.

The simple issue is why they wanted to burn fuel more completely in the tail pipe vs the actual place that pushes the car forward [the cylinders]? Those engineers weren't stupid. They knew precisely what they were doing.

 

[Jarlaxle]

One more time for the slow kid: You just CANNOT burn all the fuel in the cylinder. Just not possible...modern engines are damn close, but you can never get it all. Even with modern designs, you cannot eliminate all the crevice volume in the cylinder.