Do liberals even like this country?

[Ray From Cleveland]

During a debate with a leftist this morning, I was once again told how much better things are in other places, and that made me ask myself if liberals even like this country yet alone love it?

How great other countries have it is a leftist argument they make all the time. It's beginning to be almost as common as saying the right are racist, sexist, homophobes.

What crossed my mind this morning is something I never thought of before: conservatives never say how much better it is in other places. We have our faults, we have our differences, but you never read a conservative say our country is not as good as X.

Liberals are quite the opposite. They want us to change our healthcare system like "theirs." They want us to have gun restrictions like theirs. They want us to have an education system like theirs. They want us to have a government structure like theirs. They want us to have an immigration system like theirs. They want us to have a justice system like theirs. We should take most of the money from rich people like they do. We need to change our election system like theirs.

So I'm going to ask this question one more time even though I've never gotten an answer before: If it's so good "there" WTF are you doing here?

It's apparent that we on the right love our country and the left does not. So the question I have (especially to you leftists) is if you do even like this country? It sure as hell doesn't seem like it since you want to change every aspect of it.

By the way, the next time you talk to a liberal that likes to bring up "other countries" and their laws, bring up what their racial demographics are. They like to try to use the gun control laws in Europe as some great example of fixing the gun violence issues in the US, but never address the fact that Euro nations have far fewer blacks and Latinos. There are some Euro countries with gun ownership rates as high as the US, yet almost no gun violence.

Same goes for their health care systems. Euro countries don't have tens of millions of bottom feeders on welfare not paying into their health care systems. Plus, many of the health care systems in Europe aren't that great and people end up buying their own private insurance on top of paying for the public one.

Liberals want us to give up our guns like Europe. The problem is we need our guns because of Democrats.

When I go to my convenient store at night, do I take my gun with me because I'm afraid a conservative will hold up the store, hit me over the head, and take my wallet? Of course not. Conservatives don't do things like that--Democrats do things like that.

Or when I go to my ATM to make a deposit at night. Do I take my gun because I'm afraid of a Republican wedging himself between my car and the machine forcing me to withdraw as much as I can? No, no, no. Republicans don't do things like that --Democrats do things like that.

The only safe way we could get rid of guns is if we get rid of liberals first. And since that's not possible (Lord knows we've tried) we need to have our firearms.

 

[initforme]

ok now Ray...you are saying all democrats are felons who will hurt you....c'mon you are better than that. I have white Christian business owning friends who vote democratic...they won't hurt you. The gun grabbing rhetoric is an abject lie. I own several guns....both rifles and pistols. Nobody is going to take them despite what the BRA says. I was a member for 20some years. Now I quit...kudos to me kudos to me. I don't buy all the b.s.. I hunt I shoot at the gun club 1 nite per week. It's a lie I stake my Life on it.

 

[theHawk]

During a debate with a leftist this morning, I was once again told how much better things are in other places, and that made me ask myself if liberals even like this country yet alone love it?

How great other countries have it is a leftist argument they make all the time. It's beginning to be almost as common as saying the right are racist, sexist, homophobes.

What crossed my mind this morning is something I never thought of before: conservatives never say how much better it is in other places. We have our faults, we have our differences, but you never read a conservative say our country is not as good as X.

Liberals are quite the opposite. They want us to change our healthcare system like "theirs." They want us to have gun restrictions like theirs. They want us to have an education system like theirs. They want us to have a government structure like theirs. They want us to have an immigration system like theirs. They want us to have a justice system like theirs. We should take most of the money from rich people like they do. We need to change our election system like theirs.

So I'm going to ask this question one more time even though I've never gotten an answer before: If it's so good "there" WTF are you doing here?

It's apparent that we on the right love our country and the left does not. So the question I have (especially to you leftists) is if you do even like this country? It sure as hell doesn't seem like it since you want to change every aspect of it.

By the way, the next time you talk to a liberal that likes to bring up "other countries" and their laws, bring up what their racial demographics are. They like to try to use the gun control laws in Europe as some great example of fixing the gun violence issues in the US, but never address the fact that Euro nations have far fewer blacks and Latinos. There are some Euro countries with gun ownership rates as high as the US, yet almost no gun violence.

Same goes for their health care systems. Euro countries don't have tens of millions of bottom feeders on welfare not paying into their health care systems. Plus, many of the health care systems in Europe aren't that great and people end up buying their own private insurance on top of paying for the public one.

So, are you saying that it is blacks or latinos which automatically make crime higher?

Because Africa's intentional homicide rate is LOWER than the Americas homicide rate. So, it can't be because of black people, right?

Madagascar has an intentional murder rate of 0.62, that's low. And it's full of black people.

There are 18 African countries with a murder rate LOWER than the US's murder rate. And they're mostly full of black people.

Blame it on hispanics? Well, Spain and Portugal have lower murder rates than the US too. So.... is it hispanic blood? Er.. no, probably not.

So what is it?

How about this. Christians.

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

You have to get down to number 27 on the list before you hit a non-Christian country, South Sudan. The next is number 42, Mali.

The bottom four happen to be Christian too, but they're so small you'd never really notice them. The first proper country there is Japan, not Christian. That's not to say there aren't Christian countries at the bottom, Europe has a low level of murder and lots of Christians, but it's more Christian lite.

The US is one of the most Christian countries in the first world, and one of the highest murder rates.

So, it's much easier to make such a case that Christian society ends up forgiving way, way too easily, and ends up with higher crime.

But blaming it on blacks doesn't work. Yes, in the US blacks have a massive problem. But is this because they're black, or because they're black IN THE USA? Probably the latter. And after years of slavery, segregation and beyond that something similar, you can see why.

There's a big difference between blacks living in white countries and blacks living in African countries. Take your example of the Japanese, they have one of the most strict immigration laws in order to keep Japan for the Japanese. The result is a relatively peaceful society not destroyed by multiculturalism. Africans can be very peaceful if they are in their natural cultural setting, although you still cherry picked peaceful ones when there are also many African countries that are completely barbaric and violent. You're also nuts if you think those third world countries keep crime statistics accurately anywhere near what Western countries do.

By the way, the Portuguese and Spanish are European, not Latino.

 

[RealDave]

It was like a kid procrastinating on a term paper. He had two months to do it but waited till the night before to throw together something and then whines when the term paper gets an F

Trumpcare was an unsellable piece of shit

hope come election time the folks that would have been hurt remember how their reps wanted it and vote the slime out of office

22 million who would have lost insurance, older Americans who would have seen their rates skyrocket, low wage workers no longer eligible for subsidies or Medicaid....that was Trumpcare

And then there are the tens of millions of conservative voters who bought the lie that Republicans would repeal Obamacare if they voted for them

The Republican plan didn't take anybody off of Medicaid.

What was Obama Care? Making health insurance for low wage likely Democrat voters affordable while making it unaffordable to middle-class voters who vote Republican. But nobody on the left cared about that.

WTF. The Republican plan slashed federal funding for medicaid.

The chickenshit POS Republicans were making the States do it.

Wow, You defend that? Chickenshit politics.

The ACA did not make premiums u affordable. That is a lie. Premiums rose at a lower rate than before the ACA.

People buying insurance as individuals saved mega bucks whether they got a subsidy or not. A family of 4 making $90K could qualify for a subsidy. According to dumbass you, those are low wage people.

I ,lob=e it when you asswipes bitch about the ACA & then show you know nothing about it.

WTF are you talking about? When did you apply for Commie Care and what did they offer you? I did. I know what they offered me. I know how much it cost. I know it was unaffordable because I don't make french fries for a living.

They told me there was only one insurance company available for me to continue seeing my doctor and going to my hospital I've been going to all of my life. They wanted over 25% of my net pay. The plan had a 7K deductible and a 7K out of pocket. No dental, no prescriptions, and a $50.00 copay for doctors visits.

In other words it didn't cover shit unless I made plans to run out in front of a moving bus. Even the worker on the phone admitted she could never afford that plan.

You keep proving how little you know about the ACA.

Commie care? Really? You are that stupid?

No one forced anyone to buy through the exchanges. You were perfectly free to buy your insurance where ever you wanted.


If that policy was 25% of your net pay, you were eligible for a subsidy.


If you could not afford a policy in the exchanges then you could not have afforded one prior to the ACA.

 

[SallyAl3bright25]

The Leftists I know hate this country and won't be happy until it's changed into Venezuela.

 

[skews13]

During a debate with a leftist this morning, I was once again told how much better things are in other places, and that made me ask myself if liberals even like this country yet alone love it?

How great other countries have it is a leftist argument they make all the time. It's beginning to be almost as common as saying the right are racist, sexist, homophobes.

What crossed my mind this morning is something I never thought of before: conservatives never say how much better it is in other places. We have our faults, we have our differences, but you never read a conservative say our country is not as good as X.

Liberals are quite the opposite. They want us to change our healthcare system like "theirs." They want us to have gun restrictions like theirs. They want us to have an education system like theirs. They want us to have a government structure like theirs. They want us to have an immigration system like theirs. They want us to have a justice system like theirs. We should take most of the money from rich people like they do. We need to change our election system like theirs.

So I'm going to ask this question one more time even though I've never gotten an answer before: If it's so good "there" WTF are you doing here?

It's apparent that we on the right love our country and the left does not. So the question I have (especially to you leftists) is if you do even like this country? It sure as hell doesn't seem like it since you want to change every aspect of it.

 

[Hossfly]

During a debate with a leftist this morning, I was once again told how much better things are in other places, and that made me ask myself if liberals even like this country yet alone love it?

How great other countries have it is a leftist argument they make all the time. It's beginning to be almost as common as saying the right are racist, sexist, homophobes.

What crossed my mind this morning is something I never thought of before: conservatives never say how much better it is in other places. We have our faults, we have our differences, but you never read a conservative say our country is not as good as X.

Liberals are quite the opposite. They want us to change our healthcare system like "theirs." They want us to have gun restrictions like theirs. They want us to have an education system like theirs. They want us to have a government structure like theirs. They want us to have an immigration system like theirs. They want us to have a justice system like theirs. We should take most of the money from rich people like they do. We need to change our election system like theirs.

So I'm going to ask this question one more time even though I've never gotten an answer before: If it's so good "there" WTF are you doing here?

It's apparent that we on the right love our country and the left does not. So the question I have (especially to you leftists) is if you do even like this country? It sure as hell doesn't seem like it since you want to change every aspect of it.

At least we'll have free coffee and doughnuts.

 

[rightwinger]

Mr. Trump implied he had his Own, fine and wonderful, health care plan.

The right wing should be advancing the best elements of two plans; not, nothing but repeal. Why is the right wing being rewarded for simply being, slackers.

WTF do you expect from morons who had 7 years to make a doable plan but chose to sit on their hands and bash?

It was like a kid procrastinating on a term paper. He had two months to do it but waited till the night before to throw together something and then whines when the term paper gets an F

Trumpcare was an unsellable piece of shit

hope come election time the folks that would have been hurt remember how their reps wanted it and vote the slime out of office

22 million who would have lost insurance, older Americans who would have seen their rates skyrocket, low wage workers no longer eligible for subsidies or Medicaid....that was Trumpcare

And then there are the tens of millions of conservative voters who bought the lie that Republicans would repeal Obamacare if they voted for them

The Republican plan didn't take anybody off of Medicaid.

What was Obama Care? Making health insurance for low wage likely Democrat voters affordable while making it unaffordable to middle-class voters who vote Republican. But nobody on the left cared about that.

The Republicans slashed Medicaid so they could provide tax cuts to Bilionairs

 

[rightwinger]

The best one I can think of is ,,born in a ghetto to parents who to put it politely have no right to have any children

Everybody has a right to have children as long as it's not the taxpayer supporting them. If you can afford to support six children, by all means, have six children. If you want six children and want me to support them, that is something you don't have a right to.

And if you have 6 kids & are supporting them without help and then get a disease and can no longer work, they should take their kids to the Children Shelter & get them adopted out. Maybe they lose their jobs? Maybe they lose their spouse?

I love it. Your ilk wants to reduce access to birth control for poor people & then bitch when they have children. Proof of how fucking stupid you people are.

Oh yeah, I'm sure all those food stamp users with four or five kids that I see all the time at the grocery store were supporting them just fine with their six figure a year job until they got a disease. Talk about stupid fucken people........

So who reduced birth control to poor people? How did they do that, send a person to every store where birth control was sold and stop the people who looked poor from going in?

Who is cutting funding to Planned Parenthood?

The very organization that has been advocating family planning for 100 years. Then you complain if someone has five kids

You don't need planned parenthood to avoid having five kids. You need to keep your legs closed is all.

The only problem with that plan is that humans like to fuck

 

[Eric Cartman]

During a debate with a leftist this morning, I was once again told how much better things are in other places, and that made me ask myself if liberals even like this country yet alone love it?

How great other countries have it is a leftist argument they make all the time. It's beginning to be almost as common as saying the right are racist, sexist, homophobes.

What crossed my mind this morning is something I never thought of before: conservatives never say how much better it is in other places. We have our faults, we have our differences, but you never read a conservative say our country is not as good as X.

Liberals are quite the opposite. They want us to change our healthcare system like "theirs." They want us to have gun restrictions like theirs. They want us to have an education system like theirs. They want us to have a government structure like theirs. They want us to have an immigration system like theirs. They want us to have a justice system like theirs. We should take most of the money from rich people like they do. We need to change our election system like theirs.

So I'm going to ask this question one more time even though I've never gotten an answer before: If it's so good "there" WTF are you doing here?

It's apparent that we on the right love our country and the left does not. So the question I have (especially to you leftists) is if you do even like this country? It sure as hell doesn't seem like it since you want to change every aspect of it.

What a load of crap. Wanting to improve certain aspects of our country does not equal hating the country. Now let's get to the hypocrisy of the right who spent the last 40
years talking about how Obama, Cinton, Carter has been destroying our country even though there has been more econmic growth under Democrats. Hello... We are a great country regardless of who is in charge.... The Democrats just like to continue to progress and conservatives are regressive.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Oh, I read the link and I understood what it was. The point still stands and you're still ignorning most of what I say because it's not convenient for you.

A bunch of liars? Yeah right Ray.

It's funny how lots of facts have to be ignore for all this to become a lie. Seriously, you're so partisan it's painful. You'll see only what fits your agenda. This isn't even a debate, because you're not debating here.

Then show me one instance where a law was written to give tax breaks to large businesses that they didn't give to small businesses in the same field.

Also note that it's Republicans that want to have a flat tax system. Democrats want to fight that all the way.

Walmart may have more write-offs than mom and pop shops, but it's not because of additional write-offs that they are provided, it's because as a larger organization, they have more write-offs.

I'm a landlord and I compete against big corporate apartment buildings. I'm doing fine. They are not getting any more deductions than I am. Yes, they have more deductions because they are a larger enterprise, but they are not getting special deductions that I don't get. We all get the same in this business.

I'm really not sure what you're asking that for.

You know, or you should do if you have at least one eye open, that companies like Amazon, Walmart etc are getting massive tax breaks when other companies aren't. Please tell me you know this is true.

Yes, the Republicans want a flat tax. I'm not sure why you've brought this up here. Even with a flat tax, companies like Walmart, Amazon and the rest would be paying "political donations" and then getting special deals different to other companies, only they'd be paying EVEN LESS than they are now.

So what does a flat tax have to do with what we're talking about?

So, you're saying that if Walmart earns $480 billion, and a small grocery store earns $480,000, that as a percentage of this money, Walmart will be equal to the small grocery store?

If you are saying this, can you back this up?

Find Out If Your Tax Rate Is Higher Than Walmart's

"most people pay something near what the government sets as the tax rate for their income."

"The same is not always true of corporations. "

" While the United States has the highest statutory corporate tax among industrialized nations (39.1 percent), corporations have a greater number of ways to bring that tax bill down."

Corporate Tax Explorer

Pepco holdings pays -33%.

Yes, it pays MINUS THIRTY THREE PERCENT.

Are you telling me this is fair?

Pepco holdings earns $480 million in profits in 2012

It paid -$76 million in tax. Why the hell is it paying MINUS tax?

Only one year from 2008-2012 did it pay plus tax, and that was $9 million, compared to $584 million it gained from the tax people.

State tax rate -9%

Are you telling me this is the same as the guy competing with them? Come off it.

People who have businesses are allowed to write off expenses, and they all work the same. Why did I bring up the flat tax? Because your assertion is that taxes are unfair based on the business or size of business.

Does everybody get a tax break offer? No, not if it's not an investment for a city or state. If a small company wants tax breaks to move into a city, and they are only going to hire 25 or so people, it's a loss for the city and they don't need it. A city won't open up a new industrial area or create new streets for a business that isn't going to produce a lot of tax revenue for the city.

As for the standard tax write offs for myself, larger apartment buildings have more write offs than I do. If they repave their parking lot, that could cost them 70K or more. If I repave mine, probably closer to 5K. They hire people to show apartments, take applications, and forward them to the company. They have to hire lawyers to get back rent, evict people, and settle possible lawsuits against them. I don't have any of those expenses. They have in ground swimming pools, some have spas and workout rooms. I don't have any those things. So they have much more to write off than I do, and there is nothing unfair about that.

One thing is what is allowed to happen, that doesn't make it right, or fair, that doesn't mean it benefits the country, it doesn't mean it doesn't give an unfair advantage to the rich.

It just means that it is allowed, it means the rich have paid the politicians who make sure it's legal, the politicians are happy, the rich are happy.

Nope, I still don't get why you brought up flat taxes, what you said doesn't make sense.

Again, as I've written about tax breaks for large companies, it doesn't benefit the country or the local area. It merely takes jobs away from other people, and hands it to those working for less at larger companies.

You seem to be blinded by partisan politics when you think it's the same that a large company, paying less, or no tax, and paying workers less, is the same as if they're working for smaller businesses paying their taxes.....

I don't get it Ray, I don't get why you seem to think an unfair system is good for the country.

Okay, let's look at your situation.

The problem I see is that you seem to be equating this to simply, if I have one, and you have ten, I pay half, you pay 5.

This isn't the case. This isn't what we're talking about here, but you seem to be ignoring the reality. i did a whole theoretical thing about Walmart, and I bet you didn't even read it.

Look.

You have a large business and a small business. They compete together.

If the large company is paying 10% tax, and the small company is paying 25% tax, are they competing? No, the larger company is getting the advantage. If they can then have workers being paid less, then they're paying less and therefore have more profits or lower prices.

It should be the other way around. Smaller businesses are BETTER for the economy. It means the cash is spread around more evenly, rather than in the pocket of one rich person who buys another summer house.

How some companies end up paying -33% tax is beyond me. The govt is paying them to do the work someone else would do, if they could be competitive, and pay their taxes like everyone else.

If someone is paying -33%, that means other people are having to pay a lot more taxes in order to fill in what the govt is paying this company AND what the company isn't paying. -33% is like the govt losing 66% of taxes. It takes from others, if it's taking from others, then they have a competitive advantage, don't they?

This means the GOVERNMENT is GIVING them a competitive advantage, doesn't it?

No, it does not.

Let's say a small and large business open up in the same area. Both pay 35% in taxes. Both are allowed to use 240 different items they can write off. The smaller store can only write off 35 of those items, and the larger store can write off 125 of those items, therefore, the larger store pays less in taxes because they have more write-offs.

In other words there are not two sets of tax laws for the same types of companies. There is only one set of tax laws for both.

Who gets more of a write-off, Applebee's, or the guy with the hot dog stand two blocks from Applebee's?

But we're not talking write offs Ray. Come on, stick to the topic.

We're talking about governments, at whatever level, giving tax breaks to companies so they get an unfair competitive advantage.

 

[frigidweirdo]

During a debate with a leftist this morning, I was once again told how much better things are in other places, and that made me ask myself if liberals even like this country yet alone love it?

How great other countries have it is a leftist argument they make all the time. It's beginning to be almost as common as saying the right are racist, sexist, homophobes.

What crossed my mind this morning is something I never thought of before: conservatives never say how much better it is in other places. We have our faults, we have our differences, but you never read a conservative say our country is not as good as X.

Liberals are quite the opposite. They want us to change our healthcare system like "theirs." They want us to have gun restrictions like theirs. They want us to have an education system like theirs. They want us to have a government structure like theirs. They want us to have an immigration system like theirs. They want us to have a justice system like theirs. We should take most of the money from rich people like they do. We need to change our election system like theirs.

So I'm going to ask this question one more time even though I've never gotten an answer before: If it's so good "there" WTF are you doing here?

It's apparent that we on the right love our country and the left does not. So the question I have (especially to you leftists) is if you do even like this country? It sure as hell doesn't seem like it since you want to change every aspect of it.

By the way, the next time you talk to a liberal that likes to bring up "other countries" and their laws, bring up what their racial demographics are. They like to try to use the gun control laws in Europe as some great example of fixing the gun violence issues in the US, but never address the fact that Euro nations have far fewer blacks and Latinos. There are some Euro countries with gun ownership rates as high as the US, yet almost no gun violence.

Same goes for their health care systems. Euro countries don't have tens of millions of bottom feeders on welfare not paying into their health care systems. Plus, many of the health care systems in Europe aren't that great and people end up buying their own private insurance on top of paying for the public one.

So, are you saying that it is blacks or latinos which automatically make crime higher?

Because Africa's intentional homicide rate is LOWER than the Americas homicide rate. So, it can't be because of black people, right?

Madagascar has an intentional murder rate of 0.62, that's low. And it's full of black people.

There are 18 African countries with a murder rate LOWER than the US's murder rate. And they're mostly full of black people.

Blame it on hispanics? Well, Spain and Portugal have lower murder rates than the US too. So.... is it hispanic blood? Er.. no, probably not.

So what is it?

How about this. Christians.

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

You have to get down to number 27 on the list before you hit a non-Christian country, South Sudan. The next is number 42, Mali.

The bottom four happen to be Christian too, but they're so small you'd never really notice them. The first proper country there is Japan, not Christian. That's not to say there aren't Christian countries at the bottom, Europe has a low level of murder and lots of Christians, but it's more Christian lite.

The US is one of the most Christian countries in the first world, and one of the highest murder rates.

So, it's much easier to make such a case that Christian society ends up forgiving way, way too easily, and ends up with higher crime.

But blaming it on blacks doesn't work. Yes, in the US blacks have a massive problem. But is this because they're black, or because they're black IN THE USA? Probably the latter. And after years of slavery, segregation and beyond that something similar, you can see why.

There's a big difference between blacks living in white countries and blacks living in African countries. Take your example of the Japanese, they have one of the most strict immigration laws in order to keep Japan for the Japanese. The result is a relatively peaceful society not destroyed by multiculturalism. Africans can be very peaceful if they are in their natural cultural setting, although you still cherry picked peaceful ones when there are also many African countries that are completely barbaric and violent. You're also nuts if you think those third world countries keep crime statistics accurately anywhere near what Western countries do.

By the way, the Portuguese and Spanish are European, not Latino.

There is a problem with your argument here.

I went to Japan and I went to cross a road because I wanted to go to a store on the other side. I wasn't crossing where I should have crossed, I crossed in the middle of the street, because I didn't want to have to walk 100 meters each way just to get to a store. The road was empty more or less, just one guy on a push bike. I was half way across the road and the guy on the push bike STOPPED his bike so I could go past, even though he could easily have got ahead of me.

He didn't do this because Japan doesn't have many Japanese citizens who are not ethnically Japanese. He did this because that's Japan.

Japan has plenty of foreigners, go to Kyoto and you see them all the time, they work there, they're not citizens but they're not going to get kicked out any time soon either.

Africans can be peaceful in their "natural cultural setting". Oh, and then I'm cherry picking because I looked at all the stats and found 18 African countries who have lower murder rates than the US? How is that cherry picking exactly? Oh, it's because you want me to show only the countries that have HIGHER murder rates than the US, because that somehow makes YOUR argument. Oh, please, stop with the nonsense.

My argument was it isn't blacks who make problems, counter to your argument that high crime exists because the US has more black people than Europe. Right?

So, to back up my point I showed that 18 African countries have LOWER murder rates than the US. Which therefore shows that it isn't blacks who are the problem.

Now you've gone off and said blacks in Africa are different to blacks in America? What, they have three hands or something?

If it were a simple case, which you were suggesting, of blacks being far more prone to crime, then all or most countries with black people in them, would have much higher murder rates than the US, probably proportional to the number of black people in those countries. They don't.

So, your argument is bullshit.

 

[charwin95]

During a debate with a leftist this morning, I was once again told how much better things are in other places, and that made me ask myself if liberals even like this country yet alone love it?

How great other countries have it is a leftist argument they make all the time. It's beginning to be almost as common as saying the right are racist, sexist, homophobes.

What crossed my mind this morning is something I never thought of before: conservatives never say how much better it is in other places. We have our faults, we have our differences, but you never read a conservative say our country is not as good as X.

Liberals are quite the opposite. They want us to change our healthcare system like "theirs." They want us to have gun restrictions like theirs. They want us to have an education system like theirs. They want us to have a government structure like theirs. They want us to have an immigration system like theirs. They want us to have a justice system like theirs. We should take most of the money from rich people like they do. We need to change our election system like theirs.

So I'm going to ask this question one more time even though I've never gotten an answer before: If it's so good "there" WTF are you doing here?

It's apparent that we on the right love our country and the left does not. So the question I have (especially to you leftists) is if you do even like this country? It sure as hell doesn't seem like it since you want to change every aspect of it.

By the way, the next time you talk to a liberal that likes to bring up "other countries" and their laws, bring up what their racial demographics are. They like to try to use the gun control laws in Europe as some great example of fixing the gun violence issues in the US, but never address the fact that Euro nations have far fewer blacks and Latinos. There are some Euro countries with gun ownership rates as high as the US, yet almost no gun violence.

Same goes for their health care systems. Euro countries don't have tens of millions of bottom feeders on welfare not paying into their health care systems. Plus, many of the health care systems in Europe aren't that great and people end up buying their own private insurance on top of paying for the public one.

Liberals want us to give up our guns like Europe. The problem is we need our guns because of Democrats.

When I go to my convenient store at night, do I take my gun with me because I'm afraid a conservative will hold up the store, hit me over the head, and take my wallet? Of course not. Conservatives don't do things like that--Democrats do things like that.

Or when I go to my ATM to make a deposit at night. Do I take my gun because I'm afraid of a Republican wedging himself between my car and the machine forcing me to withdraw as much as I can? No, no, no. Republicans don't do things like that --Democrats do things like that.

The only safe way we could get rid of guns is if we get rid of liberals first. And since that's not possible (Lord knows we've tried) we need to have our firearms.

That's fucking bullshit Ray. How the fuck do you know the political affiliation of that person that will rob you? Are all republicans or conservative rich? High percentage of people on welfare or food stamps are whites.
You make it sound that conservative only have guns. You make it sound that conservative don't get erection.

Liberals NEVER said they will take your guns away. NEVER. All we are asking are sensible common sense law like closing the loopholes at gun shows. If you are a law abiding citizen (I hope) you can buy any gun of your choice. Nobody will stop you.
You are paranoid and poorly informed. Go get some help.

I never have gun and probably will never have gun for the rest of my life. I go to ATM at night, casinos, dance clubs, jog, stores etc etc etc.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

During a debate with a leftist this morning, I was once again told how much better things are in other places, and that made me ask myself if liberals even like this country yet alone love it?

How great other countries have it is a leftist argument they make all the time. It's beginning to be almost as common as saying the right are racist, sexist, homophobes.

What crossed my mind this morning is something I never thought of before: conservatives never say how much better it is in other places. We have our faults, we have our differences, but you never read a conservative say our country is not as good as X.

Liberals are quite the opposite. They want us to change our healthcare system like "theirs." They want us to have gun restrictions like theirs. They want us to have an education system like theirs. They want us to have a government structure like theirs. They want us to have an immigration system like theirs. They want us to have a justice system like theirs. We should take most of the money from rich people like they do. We need to change our election system like theirs.

So I'm going to ask this question one more time even though I've never gotten an answer before: If it's so good "there" WTF are you doing here?

It's apparent that we on the right love our country and the left does not. So the question I have (especially to you leftists) is if you do even like this country? It sure as hell doesn't seem like it since you want to change every aspect of it.

By the way, the next time you talk to a liberal that likes to bring up "other countries" and their laws, bring up what their racial demographics are. They like to try to use the gun control laws in Europe as some great example of fixing the gun violence issues in the US, but never address the fact that Euro nations have far fewer blacks and Latinos. There are some Euro countries with gun ownership rates as high as the US, yet almost no gun violence.

Same goes for their health care systems. Euro countries don't have tens of millions of bottom feeders on welfare not paying into their health care systems. Plus, many of the health care systems in Europe aren't that great and people end up buying their own private insurance on top of paying for the public one.

Liberals want us to give up our guns like Europe. The problem is we need our guns because of Democrats.

When I go to my convenient store at night, do I take my gun with me because I'm afraid a conservative will hold up the store, hit me over the head, and take my wallet? Of course not. Conservatives don't do things like that--Democrats do things like that.

Or when I go to my ATM to make a deposit at night. Do I take my gun because I'm afraid of a Republican wedging himself between my car and the machine forcing me to withdraw as much as I can? No, no, no. Republicans don't do things like that --Democrats do things like that.

The only safe way we could get rid of guns is if we get rid of liberals first. And since that's not possible (Lord knows we've tried) we need to have our firearms.

That's fucking bullshit Ray. How the fuck do you know the political affiliation of that person that will rob you? Are all republicans or conservative rich? High percentage of people on welfare or food stamps are whites.
You make it sound that conservative only have guns. You make it sound that conservative don't get erection.

Liberals NEVER said they will take your guns away. NEVER. All we are asking are sensible common sense law like closing the loopholes at gun shows. If you are a law abiding citizen (I hope) you can buy any gun of your choice. Nobody will stop you.
You are paranoid and poorly informed. Go get some help.

I never have gun and probably will never have gun for the rest of my life. I go to ATM at night, casinos, dance clubs, jog, stores etc etc etc.

Wrong. All inner-city crime areas are strongly if not entirely Democrat. There were places here and in PA that had not one Romney vote when he ran for President.

The only thing that stops Democrats from taking our guns is the Constitution. If not for that, guns would be illegal in the entire country with Democrats in charge. But since that can't be done, they figure out ways to make it as difficult as possible for Americans to arm themselves.

Gun owner map ricochet: Blogger publishes journalists' personal data

Democrats propose $10,000 fine for gun owners who don’t have insurance

NY Gun Confiscation - Citizens Told to Turn in Firearms

States look to tax guns, ammo

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/18/targeted-gun-sellers-say-high-risk-label-from-feds/

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Then show me one instance where a law was written to give tax breaks to large businesses that they didn't give to small businesses in the same field.

Also note that it's Republicans that want to have a flat tax system. Democrats want to fight that all the way.

Walmart may have more write-offs than mom and pop shops, but it's not because of additional write-offs that they are provided, it's because as a larger organization, they have more write-offs.

I'm a landlord and I compete against big corporate apartment buildings. I'm doing fine. They are not getting any more deductions than I am. Yes, they have more deductions because they are a larger enterprise, but they are not getting special deductions that I don't get. We all get the same in this business.

I'm really not sure what you're asking that for.

You know, or you should do if you have at least one eye open, that companies like Amazon, Walmart etc are getting massive tax breaks when other companies aren't. Please tell me you know this is true.

Yes, the Republicans want a flat tax. I'm not sure why you've brought this up here. Even with a flat tax, companies like Walmart, Amazon and the rest would be paying "political donations" and then getting special deals different to other companies, only they'd be paying EVEN LESS than they are now.

So what does a flat tax have to do with what we're talking about?

So, you're saying that if Walmart earns $480 billion, and a small grocery store earns $480,000, that as a percentage of this money, Walmart will be equal to the small grocery store?

If you are saying this, can you back this up?

Find Out If Your Tax Rate Is Higher Than Walmart's

"most people pay something near what the government sets as the tax rate for their income."

"The same is not always true of corporations. "

" While the United States has the highest statutory corporate tax among industrialized nations (39.1 percent), corporations have a greater number of ways to bring that tax bill down."

Corporate Tax Explorer

Pepco holdings pays -33%.

Yes, it pays MINUS THIRTY THREE PERCENT.

Are you telling me this is fair?

Pepco holdings earns $480 million in profits in 2012

It paid -$76 million in tax. Why the hell is it paying MINUS tax?

Only one year from 2008-2012 did it pay plus tax, and that was $9 million, compared to $584 million it gained from the tax people.

State tax rate -9%

Are you telling me this is the same as the guy competing with them? Come off it.

People who have businesses are allowed to write off expenses, and they all work the same. Why did I bring up the flat tax? Because your assertion is that taxes are unfair based on the business or size of business.

Does everybody get a tax break offer? No, not if it's not an investment for a city or state. If a small company wants tax breaks to move into a city, and they are only going to hire 25 or so people, it's a loss for the city and they don't need it. A city won't open up a new industrial area or create new streets for a business that isn't going to produce a lot of tax revenue for the city.

As for the standard tax write offs for myself, larger apartment buildings have more write offs than I do. If they repave their parking lot, that could cost them 70K or more. If I repave mine, probably closer to 5K. They hire people to show apartments, take applications, and forward them to the company. They have to hire lawyers to get back rent, evict people, and settle possible lawsuits against them. I don't have any of those expenses. They have in ground swimming pools, some have spas and workout rooms. I don't have any those things. So they have much more to write off than I do, and there is nothing unfair about that.

One thing is what is allowed to happen, that doesn't make it right, or fair, that doesn't mean it benefits the country, it doesn't mean it doesn't give an unfair advantage to the rich.

It just means that it is allowed, it means the rich have paid the politicians who make sure it's legal, the politicians are happy, the rich are happy.

Nope, I still don't get why you brought up flat taxes, what you said doesn't make sense.

Again, as I've written about tax breaks for large companies, it doesn't benefit the country or the local area. It merely takes jobs away from other people, and hands it to those working for less at larger companies.

You seem to be blinded by partisan politics when you think it's the same that a large company, paying less, or no tax, and paying workers less, is the same as if they're working for smaller businesses paying their taxes.....

I don't get it Ray, I don't get why you seem to think an unfair system is good for the country.

Okay, let's look at your situation.

The problem I see is that you seem to be equating this to simply, if I have one, and you have ten, I pay half, you pay 5.

This isn't the case. This isn't what we're talking about here, but you seem to be ignoring the reality. i did a whole theoretical thing about Walmart, and I bet you didn't even read it.

Look.

You have a large business and a small business. They compete together.

If the large company is paying 10% tax, and the small company is paying 25% tax, are they competing? No, the larger company is getting the advantage. If they can then have workers being paid less, then they're paying less and therefore have more profits or lower prices.

It should be the other way around. Smaller businesses are BETTER for the economy. It means the cash is spread around more evenly, rather than in the pocket of one rich person who buys another summer house.

How some companies end up paying -33% tax is beyond me. The govt is paying them to do the work someone else would do, if they could be competitive, and pay their taxes like everyone else.

If someone is paying -33%, that means other people are having to pay a lot more taxes in order to fill in what the govt is paying this company AND what the company isn't paying. -33% is like the govt losing 66% of taxes. It takes from others, if it's taking from others, then they have a competitive advantage, don't they?

This means the GOVERNMENT is GIVING them a competitive advantage, doesn't it?

No, it does not.

Let's say a small and large business open up in the same area. Both pay 35% in taxes. Both are allowed to use 240 different items they can write off. The smaller store can only write off 35 of those items, and the larger store can write off 125 of those items, therefore, the larger store pays less in taxes because they have more write-offs.

In other words there are not two sets of tax laws for the same types of companies. There is only one set of tax laws for both.

Who gets more of a write-off, Applebee's, or the guy with the hot dog stand two blocks from Applebee's?

But we're not talking write offs Ray. Come on, stick to the topic.

We're talking about governments, at whatever level, giving tax breaks to companies so they get an unfair competitive advantage.

Then show me one business where this is true. Show me where two businesses (one large and one small) have two different tax codes because of their size.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

During a debate with a leftist this morning, I was once again told how much better things are in other places, and that made me ask myself if liberals even like this country yet alone love it?

How great other countries have it is a leftist argument they make all the time. It's beginning to be almost as common as saying the right are racist, sexist, homophobes.

What crossed my mind this morning is something I never thought of before: conservatives never say how much better it is in other places. We have our faults, we have our differences, but you never read a conservative say our country is not as good as X.

Liberals are quite the opposite. They want us to change our healthcare system like "theirs." They want us to have gun restrictions like theirs. They want us to have an education system like theirs. They want us to have a government structure like theirs. They want us to have an immigration system like theirs. They want us to have a justice system like theirs. We should take most of the money from rich people like they do. We need to change our election system like theirs.

So I'm going to ask this question one more time even though I've never gotten an answer before: If it's so good "there" WTF are you doing here?

It's apparent that we on the right love our country and the left does not. So the question I have (especially to you leftists) is if you do even like this country? It sure as hell doesn't seem like it since you want to change every aspect of it.

What a load of crap. Wanting to improve certain aspects of our country does not equal hating the country. Now let's get to the hypocrisy of the right who spent the last 40
years talking about how Obama, Cinton, Carter has been destroying our country even though there has been more econmic growth under Democrats. Hello... We are a great country regardless of who is in charge.... The Democrats just like to continue to progress and conservatives are regressive.

And by continue progress you mean turning this into yet another socialist country? As I stated in the OP, it's Democrats that are constantly telling us how much better it is in other countries yet you never read a conservative say anything near that. I didn't say liberals hate this country, I asked if they even like it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Everybody has a right to have children as long as it's not the taxpayer supporting them. If you can afford to support six children, by all means, have six children. If you want six children and want me to support them, that is something you don't have a right to.

And if you have 6 kids & are supporting them without help and then get a disease and can no longer work, they should take their kids to the Children Shelter & get them adopted out. Maybe they lose their jobs? Maybe they lose their spouse?

I love it. Your ilk wants to reduce access to birth control for poor people & then bitch when they have children. Proof of how fucking stupid you people are.

Oh yeah, I'm sure all those food stamp users with four or five kids that I see all the time at the grocery store were supporting them just fine with their six figure a year job until they got a disease. Talk about stupid fucken people........

So who reduced birth control to poor people? How did they do that, send a person to every store where birth control was sold and stop the people who looked poor from going in?

Who is cutting funding to Planned Parenthood?

The very organization that has been advocating family planning for 100 years. Then you complain if someone has five kids

You don't need planned parenthood to avoid having five kids. You need to keep your legs closed is all.

The only problem with that plan is that humans like to fuck

Only lower income humans or all? Because it seems to me that lower income humans have more children than middle-class humans. Check out my other thread about 50% of babies born in this country do so on Medicaid.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

WTF do you expect from morons who had 7 years to make a doable plan but chose to sit on their hands and bash?

It was like a kid procrastinating on a term paper. He had two months to do it but waited till the night before to throw together something and then whines when the term paper gets an F

Trumpcare was an unsellable piece of shit

hope come election time the folks that would have been hurt remember how their reps wanted it and vote the slime out of office

22 million who would have lost insurance, older Americans who would have seen their rates skyrocket, low wage workers no longer eligible for subsidies or Medicaid....that was Trumpcare

And then there are the tens of millions of conservative voters who bought the lie that Republicans would repeal Obamacare if they voted for them

The Republican plan didn't take anybody off of Medicaid.

What was Obama Care? Making health insurance for low wage likely Democrat voters affordable while making it unaffordable to middle-class voters who vote Republican. But nobody on the left cared about that.

The Republicans slashed Medicaid so they could provide tax cuts to Bilionairs

Oh really? And when did these billionaires get this tax cut?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The Leftists I know hate this country and won't be happy until it's changed into Venezuela.

Even if that were to happen, they would blame the Republicans somehow. Welcome to USMB by the way.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

What made the U.S. great was our willingness to accept elements of other cultures and make them ours
We have taken other languages, ideas, foods, entertainment and adopted them as our own
We are capable of doing the same with healthcare

The most ignorant thing about this statement is the assumption that people today are the same as they were 200 years ago.
They are NOT. And they are not coming here today for the same reasons. A few are..most are not.

Today there is global hatred and people don't come here for opportunities....they come here to TAKE what they feel has been freely offered by Democrats in exchange for votes. Today most people come here to suck their share off of what Americans and the original hard working immigrants who had values and assimilation in mind created vs those today wanting to come here to CONQUER and freeload.

Only a naive fool believes other wise.