End the Fed!

[BackAgain]

Continue being ignorant on the topic here.

So far, you’re the one demonstrating the ignorance.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It's not ''money.''

To be ''money,'' there has to be a store of value.

What you're calling ''money'' is nothing more than a receipt for a claim check on an IOU bond.

It's monetized debt.

All of the ''base currency''...because that's what it actually is...that is piling up is just a supply of numbers.

And, for the record, there is always more debt in the system than there is ''currency'' in existence to pay the debt. I've explained why this is probably a guh zillion of times before around here.

Every single "dollar" in circulation since 1913 was first "borrowed" into circulation from them.....

There are more "dollars" in circulation than have been lent out by the Fed. By a wide margin.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You fail to identify what you now pretend were a “bunch of errors.”

You didn't answer my question. Try again?

 

[BackAgain]

You didn't answer my question. Try again?

You fail to support your claim.

Try at all?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So far, you’re the one demonstrating the ignorance.

I'm sorry that you're clueless about how banking works.
You're not alone, many people on the left and the right don't understand.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You fail to support your claim.

Try at all?

 

[Natural Citizen]

He was wrong.

Well according to the Boston Federal Reserve's ''Putting it Simply," they say that ''When you or I write a check, there must be sufficient funds in our account to cover the check, but when the Federal Reserve writes a check, there is no bank deposit on which that check is drawn. When the Federal Reserve writes a check, it is creating ''money.”



Of course, it isn't actually ''money.''

It's ''currency.''

Again, to be ''money,'' there must be a store of value.

Anyway. The Federal Reserve then hands those checks to the banks and at this point ''currency'' springs into existence. The banks then take that ''currency'' and buy more bonds at the next Treasury auction. And they keep doing this infinitely.

"Open Market Operations,'' I think it's called?

It's just a shell game, really.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Well according to the Boston Federal Reserve's ''Putting it Simply," they say that ''When you or I write a check, there must be sufficient funds in our account to cover the check, but when the Federal Reserve writes a check, there is no bank deposit on which that check is drawn. When the Federal Reserve writes a check, it is creating ''money.”



Of course, it isn't actually ''money.''

It's ''currency.''

Again, to be ''money,'' there must be a store of value.

Anyway. The Federal Reserve then hands those checks to the banks and at this point ''currency'' springs into existence. The banks then take that ''currency'' and buy more bonds at the next Treasury auction.

"Open Market Operations,'' I think it's called?

It's just a shell game, really.

''When you or I write a check, there must be sufficient funds in our account to cover the check, but when the Federal Reserve writes a check, there is no bank deposit on which that check is drawn. When the Federal Reserve writes a check, it is creating ''money.”

It's true, the Federal Reserve is allowed to create "money".

Anyway. The Federal Reserve then hands those checks to the banks and at this point ''currency'' springs into existence. The banks then take that ''currency'' and buy more bonds at the next Treasury auction.

The Fed "hands a check to a bank"?
For what purpose? Is the Fed giving the banks free "currency"?

 

[Natural Citizen]

Every single "dollar" in circulation since 1913 was first "borrowed" into circulation from them.....

There are more "dollars" in circulation than have been lent out by the Fed. By a wide margin.

Call it wahat you want, it;s still just monetized debt. It's not actually ''money.''

But let us expand on what you just said. Because you just said the quiet part out loud.

Regarding that first ''borrowed dollar'' you invoked there.


There was interest due on that bond, and there is interest due on every one of those loans'''' that the banks made. That means that there is interest due on every dollar in existence.

So. If you borrow the very first dollar in existence, as you said, and you promise to pay it back plus another dollar's worth of interest, where do you get the second dollar to pay the interest? The answer is that you have to borrow that dollar into existence and promise to pay it back with interest as well. So, now there are 2 dollars in existence, but you now owe 4. And so on, and so on, and so on, and so on. It keeps happening over and over and over again. The result is that there is never enough ''currency'' to pay the debt. There is, as I correctly said, always more debt in the system than there is ''currency'' in existence to pay the debt.

Therefore the entire system is impossible. It is finite. It will come to an end one day.

What would happen if the government stopped borrowing to do deficit spending?

Are the payments on those Treasury bonds going to stop?

What would happen if the public stopped borrowing and going deeper into debt?

Are your house and car payments going to stop?

No. They're not.

There is a payment due every month on the principal plus the interest on every dollar in existence and those payments do not stop.

If we stop ''borrowing,'' then no new '''currency' is created to replace the 'currency' that we used to make those payments.

Whether you're making a payment on a loan or paying a tax to make a payment on a Treasury bond, the portion of the payment that goes to pay off the principal extinguishes that portion of the debt.

BUT...the debt also extinguishes the ''currency.''

When currency and debt meet, they destroy each other.

If we just pay off the principal only, all of the loans and Treasury bonds that exist, the entire ''currency'' supply vanishes.

So, if we don't go deeper into debt every year, the whole thing goes into a deflationary collapse under the weight of those payments.

 

[Natural Citizen]

''When you or I write a check, there must be sufficient funds in our account to cover the check, but when the Federal Reserve writes a check, there is no bank deposit on which that check is drawn. When the Federal Reserve writes a check, it is creating ''money.”

It's true, the Federal Reserve is allowed to create "money".

Anyway. The Federal Reserve then hands those checks to the banks and at this point ''currency'' springs into existence. The banks then take that ''currency'' and buy more bonds at the next Treasury auction.

The Fed "hands a check to a bank"?
For what purpose? Is the Fed giving the banks free "currency"?

The gig is up, Toddster.

We don't even really need an end the Fed bill at this point.

We're already witnessing the self-destruction of the Fed as a consequence of its own model.

It's designed to fail. It always has been.

It's why there's such a push for CBDC, now that they;ve run out of road to kick the can down.

The central bankers are making moves to implement digital central currencies because they think that it will free them from using slower, clumsier means of manipulating these types of value. And, of course, it will, in theory, allow them to walk away from their generational crime and fraud at the convenience of a push of a button. That whole ''great reset'' bullshit. lol.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Call it wahat you want, it;s still just monetized debt. It's not actually ''money.''

But let us expand on what you just said. Because you just said the quiet part out loud.

Regarding that first ''borrowed dollar'' you invoked there.


There was interest due on that bond, and there is interest due on every one of those loans'''' that the banks made. That means that there is interest due on every dollar in existence.

So. If you borrow the very first dollar in existence, as you said, and you promise to pay it back plus another dollar's worth of interest, where do you get the second dollar to pay the interest? The answer is that you have to borrow that dollar into existence and promise to pay it back with interest as well. So, now there are 2 dollars in existence, but you now owe 4. And so on, and so on, and so on, and so on. It keeps happening over and over and over again. The result is that there is never enough ''currency'' to pay the debt. There is, as I correctly said, always more debt in the system than there is ''currency'' in existence to pay the debt.

Therefore the entire system is impossible. It is finite. It will come to an end one day.

What would happen if the government stopped borrowing to do deficit spending?

Are the payments on those Treasury bonds going to stop?

What would happen if the public stopped borrowing and going deeper into debt?

Are your house and car payments going to stop?

No. They're not.

There is a payment due every month on the principal plus the interest on every dollar in existence and those payments do not stop.

If we stop ''borrowing,'' then no new '''currency' is created to replace the 'currency' that we used to make those payments.

Whether you're making a payment on a loan or paying a tax to make a payment on a Treasury bond, the portion of the payment that goes to pay off the principal extinguishes that portion of the debt.

BUT...the debt also extinguishes the ''currency.''

When currency and debt meet, they destroy each other.

If we just pay off the principal only, all of the loans and Treasury bonds that exist, the entire ''currency'' supply vanishes.

So, if we don't go deeper into debt every year, the whole thing goes into a deflationary collapse under the weight of those payments.

Call it wahat you want, it;s still just monetized debt. It's not actually ''money.''

Ok. So what?

There was interest due on that bond, and there is interest due on every one of those loans'''' that the banks made. That means that there is interest due on every dollar in existence.

You're confused. I have a $20 in my wallet, no interest due at all. Show me I'm wrong.

So. If you borrow the very first dollar in existence, as you said, and you promise to pay it back plus another dollar's worth of interest, where do you get the second dollar to pay the interest?

The first dollar came into existence hundreds of years ago. Talk about something meaningful.

What would happen if the government stopped borrowing to do deficit spending?

Then businesses and people would find it easier to borrow.

Are the payments on those Treasury bonds going to stop?

Hopefully the government does not default.

What would happen if the public stopped borrowing and going deeper into debt?

What would happen if Ana de Armas came to my house naked?
Alex, what are two things that will never happen?

There is a payment due every month on the principal plus the interest on every dollar in existence and those payments do not stop.

Do I owe someone for the $20 in my wallet? Who? How much? How do they collect?

If we stop ''borrowing,'' then no new '''currency' is created to replace the 'currency' that we used to make those payments.

When I make a payment, that currency isn't destroyed.

When currency and debt meet, they destroy each other.

I borrow $20,000 to buy a car. I mail the payment to the bank. The bank doesn't burn my money when they receive it. They use it to pay interest, salaries, taxes, rent.
The interest, salary, tax and rent recipients don't burn it either.

If we just pay off the principal only, all of the loans and Treasury bonds that exist, the entire ''currency'' supply vanishes.

Hold on a minute, Ana is at my door again.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Toddster, we've had this exact conversation many, many, many times over the years.

You can't win. And you never do.

I'm really just not interested in running around in the same old circle with you about it anymore. It's just repetition.

At the end of the day, they called us loons when we told em how it actually worked and when we told em what was going to happen if they continued alowing it to happen. For years we've said this.

And, yeah, they could get away with calling us loons when there was enough road to keep kicking the can down and to delay the inevitable.

But now they're out of road to kick the can down.

And people are now finally seeing the consequence of a failed monetary policy.

But it's to late now.

I'm of the view these days that you get what you deserve.

I don't really like taking that position, as I do generally care about people.

But now I'm old. By my standard anyway. At some point you just have to throw up your hands and just look out for #1. So that's where I'm at in all of this.

People who understand and have planned accordingly through the years will be alright.

 

[BackAgain]

I'm sorry that you're clueless about how banking works.
You're not alone, many people on the left and the right don't understand.

Sorry you’re too cowardly to defend your own clams.

 

[BackAgain]

View attachment 948065

Yep. You cowardly puss. You failed to defend your own claims.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Sorry you’re too cowardly to defend your own clams.

Which claims do I need to defend?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

That was awesome! What did the Federal Reserve do and when did Cal give them the finger?

The economy was a disaster in the aftermath of WWI. Cal ignored the calls to “DO SOMETHING!!” and stepped aside and let the markets reprice wages, assets and debts.

The economy started horribly, but just a shade better than the FDR Depression. The difference was that without government intervention the market boomed, unemployment plummeted and the Roaring 20s began in earnest.

 

[BackAgain]

Which claims do I need to defend?

The ones you made.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The economy was a disaster in the aftermath of WWI. Cal ignored the calls to “DO SOMETHING!!” and stepped aside and let the markets reprice wages, assets and debts.

The economy started horribly, but just a shade better than the FDR Depression. The difference was that without government intervention the market boomed, unemployment plummeted and the Roaring 20s began in earnest.

The economy was a disaster in the aftermath of WWI. Cal ignored the calls to “DO SOMETHING!!” and stepped aside and let the markets reprice wages, assets and debts.

Yes, Cal was awesome! One of the best ever.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The ones you made.

Be more specific.

 

[BackAgain]

Be more specific.

No. Go back and re-read what you, yourself, posted. I’m not your errand boy.