Females cleared for service in ‘Combat/FrontLine Units’

[Katzndogz]

If anyone cares about what military service means, they just won't join the obamaforces.

 

[Katzndogz]

This little exercise is to make women feel good. If it degrades the effectiveness of the military so be it. It is all about massaging boobies. Oh brutha this bunch can't make a decent decision if our lives depended on it.

I like massaging boobies.

Off with you, to the nearest recruiter!

 

[High_Gravity]

Israel has female soldiers in Combat, same standards as the men too. Why not us?

 

[High_Gravity]

This little exercise is to make women feel good. If it degrades the effectiveness of the military so be it. It is all about massaging boobies. Oh brutha this bunch can't make a decent decision if our lives depended on it.

I like massaging boobies.

Off with you, to the nearest recruiter!

lol, I already served 7 years Katz. I have done my sharing of massaging female Soldiers boobs.

 

[Trajan]

*The genesis of this "change in policy" was a lawsuit filed by four service women Mary Jennings Hegar , Jennifer Hunt , Alexandra Zoe Bedell , Colleen Farrell and Service Women's Action Network against Panetta Case Number: 3:2012cv06005 Filed: November 27, 2012

"The four servicemembers have all done tours in Iraq or Afghanistan--some deploying multiple times--where they served in combat or led female troops who went on missions with combat infantrymen. Their careers and opportunities have been limited by a policy that does not grant them the same recognition for their service as their male counterparts. The combat exclusion policy also makes it harder for them to do their jobs.

Two of the plaintiffs were awarded the Purple Heart after being wounded in the course of their deployments. Two led Marine Corps Female Engagement Teams, in which women Marines lived with and went on missions with Marine Infantrymen in active combat zones. Two were awarded medals in recognition of their performance while in active engagement in combat zones. One earned a Distinguished Flying Cross with a Valor Device for extraordinary achievement and heroism while engaging in direct ground fire with the enemy, after being wounded when her helicopter was shot down over Afghanistan."

Women make up more than 14 percent of the 1.4 million active military personnel, yet the “combat exclusion policy" categorically excludes them from more than 200,000 positions, as well as from entire career fields. Consequently, commanders are stymied in their ability to mobilize their troops effectively. In addition, servicewomen are:

• denied training and recognition for their service
• put at a disadvantage for promotions
• prevented from competing for positions for which they have demonstrated their suitability and from advancing in rank."

Hegar, et al. v. Panetta


This change has righted a very wrong policy position within the military.

* I posted this in another thread, it may be better served here.

The person best suited for the position should fill that slot. As of yet, I have not seen where there will be changes in requirements, senior military are cautious about this.

I really don't give a shit about how their career is going. People will DIE because of this. Period. We'll never hear about it that way, but that's what will happen. Women's military careers are not worth people's lives.

Women are already in the Military, they are in the field and they are engaging the enemy. This move is mostly just a formality since women are doing all the things you're worried about already. This will open doors that were needlessly closed to someone based on what's between their legs instead of whose most qualified.

uhm yes and no, any 'engagement' is wholly by surprise, unless a female piloted aircraft goes down behind enemy lines, then contact directly between the enemy and a female would be defacto. They are not systemically 'doing all of the things' we are worried about.

Total immersion with an Infantry squad/platoon whose express purpose of course is to close and defeat the enemy in close quarters is really the issue.

The Tanker and Artillery conversation can come later, thats small potatoes.

 

[Underhill]

" It is all talk, idle talk, to say that the volunteers who are fighting the battles of this country are governed by any such narrow prejudice or bigotry. These prejudices are the results of the teachings of demagogues and politicians, who have for years undertaken to delude and deceive the American people, and to demean and degrade them."

Mr. Sherman (Rep.) Of Ohio 1862

 

[52ndStreet]

If a woman can drag my wounded 200lbs body out of danger, and do hand to hand combat with an enemy, then put them in combat. Until tasks like I just described can be done, they need not be placed in combat roles.

 

[Connery]

I really don't give a shit about how their career is going. People will DIE because of this. Period. We'll never hear about it that way, but that's what will happen. Women's military careers are not worth people's lives.

Women are already in the Military, they are in the field and they are engaging the enemy. This move is mostly just a formality since women are doing all the things you're worried about already. This will open doors that were needlessly closed to someone based on what's between their legs instead of whose most qualified.

uhm yes and no, any 'engagement' is wholly by surprise, unless a female piloted aircraft goes down behind enemy lines, then contact directly between the enemy and a female would be defacto. They are not systemically 'doing all of the things' we are worried about.

Total immersion with an Infantry squad/platoon whose express purpose of course is to close and defeat the enemy in close quarters is really the issue.

The Tanker and Artillery conversation can come later, thats small potatoes.

This is incorrect. Read the case which is available in this thread.

 

[Warrior102]

I never served with females.
BB was my last assignment at sea

 

[Underhill]

If a woman can drag my wounded 200lbs body out of danger, and do hand to hand combat with an enemy, then put them in combat. Until tasks like I just described can be done, they need not be placed in combat roles.

I know plenty of men incapable of both...

 

[52ndStreet]

If a woman can drag my wounded 200lbs body out of danger, and do hand to hand combat with an enemy, then put them in combat. Until tasks like I just described can be done, they need not be placed in combat roles.

I know plenty of men incapable of both...

But the majority of women won't be able to do what I have stated.

 

[Underhill]

If a woman can drag my wounded 200lbs body out of danger, and do hand to hand combat with an enemy, then put them in combat. Until tasks like I just described can be done, they need not be placed in combat roles.

I know plenty of men incapable of both...

But the majority of women won't be able to do what I have stated.

Sure, and as long as those in the military can, who gives a rats ass?

 

[Tech_Esq]

If a woman can drag my wounded 200lbs body out of danger, and do hand to hand combat with an enemy, then put them in combat. Until tasks like I just described can be done, they need not be placed in combat roles.

I know plenty of men incapable of both...

In the Infantry? I don't think you do.

 

[Tech_Esq]

I know plenty of men incapable of both...

But the majority of women won't be able to do what I have stated.

Sure, and as long as those in the military can, who gives a rats ass?

The military trains massive numbers of people at one time. The premise this training exist upon is that, with the exception of elite training, most of those who go in, will succeed. Putting women in infantry training stands that idea on its head. It is a waste of time and money in the search for the few women that can do it. And, what for? So they can feather their career. It will cost lives. People will die because of this decision so a few women can have an extra grade or two in rank. Pathetic!

 

[Underhill]

If a woman can drag my wounded 200lbs body out of danger, and do hand to hand combat with an enemy, then put them in combat. Until tasks like I just described can be done, they need not be placed in combat roles.

I know plenty of men incapable of both...

In the Infantry? I don't think you do.

Okay but if we are going to play that game, I know women who are perfectly capable.

Anyway you look at it, who cares.

And how does women dropping out of basic lead to people dying?

 

[Tech_Esq]

Here:

To quote Dickens, "If the law says that, the law is a ass, a idiot."

The law may be an ass, but, you cannot argue with facts.

This is from the complaint which compelled the military to change it's policy, "servicewomen who have engaged in ground combat in Iraq and Afghanistan have routinely been denied combat credit for purposes of promotion. For men, ground combat experience is a substantial factor in promotion to leadership positions. In contrast, a woman's combat experience is not recognized as such, because she is only "attached" but not "assigned" to ground combat units, or she commands teams that serve "in support of' but are not "part of' ground combat units. For some servicewomen, such as Staff Sergeant Jennifer Hunt, their combat service conducting missions with infantry troops had no formal designation at all. For others, such as Captain Alexandra Zoe Bedell and First Lieutenant Colleen Farrell, their combat service leading FETs took place entirely outside of their official career specialties. Because of the combat exclusion policy, the combat service of these and many other women cannot be given official recognition..."
http://www.aclu.org/files/assets/emb...lu_lawsuit.pdf

These combat jobs have already been performed by women. This is nothing new. Give credit where credit is due, exclusion based on sex is simply wrong.

Now we get to it. You don't have the vaguest idea of what you are talking about. You are loosely throwing around a judicial decision without any idea of what any of it means.

It says right there that they haven't done the job of the infantry. You are comparing apples and oranges and don't even know it. Being attacked and shooting back is not the same as going on a patrol to find and kill the enemy.

 

[Missourian]

As long as the females can meet the male minimum standard and volunteer for combat, I do not oppose this.

If females are only required to meet a female standard, or the male standard is lowered to accommodate females, I oppose it.

 

[SFC Ollie]

But the majority of women won't be able to do what I have stated.

Sure, and as long as those in the military can, who gives a rats ass?

The military trains massive numbers of people at one time. The premise this training exist upon is that, with the exception of elite training, most of those who go in, will succeed. Putting women in infantry training stands that idea on its head. It is a waste of time and money in the search for the few women that can do it. And, what for? So they can feather their career. It will cost lives. People will die because of this decision so a few women can have an extra grade or two in rank. Pathetic!

It does not affect promotions.........

 

[Mr. President]

I'm not saying that no woman in the world can do the job. But I just came back from deployment not too long ago where I was forced to pick up the slack of females because if we didnt carry some of their gear they slowed us down and made us slower moving targets. Women excelling in Infantry is the exception not the norm.

War does not respect gender. If the average female can not carry her equipment and me then she does not need to be infantry. We carry our 80 pound load our weapon a wounded comrade and his weapon. dead weight is a heavy weight. Political decisions about military strategies get people killed. I could carry my load and any female that I served with overseas. None of them could do the same with me. So if I went down I would have to wait for a male to come and get me. Is that sexist?

 

[PaulS1950]

In the military you either pass muster or you get reassigned. I know of a few guys that couldn't make it in the infantry and got assigned jobs better suited or were released from military service as "unfit". I would hope that the same rules would apply to women who would apply to the infantry.