If only Abraham Lincoln had understood and obeyed the Constitution

[Slash]

Lincoln didn’t fight the Civil War to end slavery — he fought it to keep the union whole. He freed the slaves because it helped achieve that goal.

To a point yes. Remember context is key in history. Without it we have next to nothing.

Lincoln kept slavery out of the spotlight early in the war when the lines had yet to be drawn for a fairly obvious reason.

Washington DC was situated between Maryland and Virginia. Two slave states that had yet to secede with the South. So to say the war was a war on slavery would run a very strong chance that these two states would join the rebellion and Lincoln would be waking up the next morning in the heart of the Confederacy, waving a white flag out of the White House window.

Which is why he waited for military wins, hardened battle lines, and then issued his Emancipation Proclamation. Once people had dug in on sides, that wasn't going to cost him the war.

But it wasn't a secret that he was going to fight slavery. Heck the states listed him being an abolitionist as reasons for secession. Lincoln himself spent his entire campaign trying to play moderate to win votes as opponents just kept calling him a "Black Republican" and wanting to go to war to end slavery. I mean his party was the anti-slavery party. It's like watching Bernie Sanders saying he's not really a socialist when Hillary would call him out on that in campaign mode. Trying to look more moderate wins the maybe votes a lot of the time.

So with his words early on in the war and Lincolns campaign, yeah, not so much about slavery, at least from the North. But listen to that change after the war.

Grant pre war also said it was just about saving the Union.

Post-war he didn't hide his words anymore though...

"There had to be an end of slavery. Then we were fighting an enemy with whom we could not make a peace. We had to destroy him. No convention, no treaty was possible – only destruction."

"but as soon as slavery fired upon the flag it was felt, we all felt, even those who did not object to slaves, that slavery must be destroyed. We felt that it was a stain to the Union that men should be bought and sold like cattle."

"It had to be done... Not only save the Union, but destroy slavery,"


The South called it out from the start, and the leaders in the North called it out once it wouldn't cost them the war. The war was about slavery's existence.

So it's a complicated situation. The war was about bringing the Union back together, but the Union split over slavery. So preserving the union and fighting slavery aren't mutually exclusive reasons to fight a war.

 

[gipper]

You sound like a total idiot, but statists always are.

You would do well in an Orwellian world and you would gladly execute people like me.

Damn you are just bound and determined to shit all over the US Constitution. Sorry.. enjoy your sad lives.

Can you admit that Lincoln shit all over the Constitution? if you can't, your prove yourself an idiot.

Sure... but only if we rip it up first and make that secession a legal one. Since it wasn't, Lincoln was facing traitors in a rebellion.

You are stuck in a catch 22 there. The only way for you to say those acts were unconstitutional... is to destroy the constitution. No matter how many times you talk in circles, that's not changing

Okay then the US government is perpetual, no matter what it does. That means if anyone rebels from the US, they are traitors and deserving of immediate death..

Hmmmm yes- persons who 'rebel' against the United States are traitors.

You know- like Benedict Arnold.

Now if someone wants to advocate the legal- and peaceful separation of their state from the United States- they need to go through the Constitutional process to accomplish that- including the agreement of the other states.

Blow me dick head.

You would gladly murder for a criminal state. Fuck you!

 

[Syriusly]

Damn you are just bound and determined to shit all over the US Constitution. Sorry.. enjoy your sad lives.

Can you admit that Lincoln shit all over the Constitution? if you can't, your prove yourself an idiot.

Sure... but only if we rip it up first and make that secession a legal one. Since it wasn't, Lincoln was facing traitors in a rebellion.

You are stuck in a catch 22 there. The only way for you to say those acts were unconstitutional... is to destroy the constitution. No matter how many times you talk in circles, that's not changing

Okay then the US government is perpetual, no matter what it does. That means if anyone rebels from the US, they are traitors and deserving of immediate death..

Hmmmm yes- persons who 'rebel' against the United States are traitors.

You know- like Benedict Arnold.

Now if someone wants to advocate the legal- and peaceful separation of their state from the United States- they need to go through the Constitutional process to accomplish that- including the agreement of the other states.

Blow me dick head.

You would gladly murder for a criminal state. Fuck you!

Don't involve me in your twisted sexual fantasies.

But yes- I would gladly defend our Constitution against all enemies, domestic and foreign.

Unlike your sorry ass.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The alt right and white nationalists are domestic enemies of America.

 

[Sundance508]

The alt right and white nationalists are domestic enemies of America.

The alt right and white nationalists are domestic enemies of America.

Every commie is entitled to an opinion. How is it going down in Venezuela,cuba, russia or any other leftist hellhole? hehheh

 

[Sundance508]

Oh the pc morons always need to feel morally superior be they democrits or republicans...actually I detest pc republicans more than democrats....anyhow It is my duty to inform all you blowhards that have been duped into believing that slavery is the greatest evil in the world that the Negroes are worse off today than at any time since they were (unfortunately for America brought here).

There are more Negroes in prison today than were brought here as slaves....let me ax you morons a question...what do you think some Negro on rikers island, or in some hellhole like San Quentin would say if they were axed would they prefer to live on a plantation as a slave or stay where they are?

No matter how they answer and we all know what most would say...the reality is that Plantation Life was ideal for the Savages brought over here from Africa...gave them a chance to become civilized...and live to ripe old ages, to marry, to have many children...compare that to the very short life they would have had in disease ridden africa...and most of them would have been executed it the tribal chief that had captured them was unable to sell them off to some dutch slave trader.

So as explained earlier Slavery was not perfect and though Southern Slavery was humane for the most part and though it did no always live up to the Biblical requirements for the treatment of slaves...the Negroes were far better off here in America than they were or would have been in Africa.

 

[Dr Grump]

The alt right and white nationalists are domestic enemies of America.

The alt right and white nationalists are domestic enemies of America.

Every commie is entitled to an opinion. How is it going down in Venezuela,cuba, russia or any other leftist hellhole? hehheh

You forgot the rightie hell holes like Nicaragua, El Salvador, Guatemala <insert Central or South American tinpot dictator that the CIA backed>...

 

[Dr Grump]

for the most part and though it did no always live up to the Biblical requirements for the treatment of slaves...the Negroes were far better off here in America than they were or would have been in Africa.

And they're even better off now that they aren't slaves. Go figure....

 

[BlindBoo]

the reality is that Plantation Life was ideal for the Savages brought over here from Africa...gave them a chance to become civilized...and live to ripe old ages, to marry, to have many children.

The importing of new slaves ended in the early 1800's. Most all the increase in slave population after the slave trade was banned was because they were born into servitude. You don't seem to get what in perpetuity means. Families torn apart at the masters whims. Children taken from their mothers arms and all. It was inhumane treatment of our brothers and sisters, all because racism was taught, a learned thing.

 

[TheGreenHornet]

the reality is that Plantation Life was ideal for the Savages brought over here from Africa...gave them a chance to become civilized...and live to ripe old ages, to marry, to have many children.

The importing of new slaves ended in the early 1800's. Most all the increase in slave population after the slave trade was banned was because they were born into servitude. You don't seem to get what in perpetuity means. Families torn apart at the masters whims. Children taken from their mothers arms and all. It was inhumane treatment of our brothers and sisters, all because racism was taught, a learned thing.

A rather incoherent statement and not true.
The Federal government made it illegal to import slaves in 1807.but that did not stop it. More than 3 million slaves were introduced into the Americas even after it was made illegal. Even the Confederate Constitution banned the further importation of Slaves into The Great South-Land.

However, this was not out of any concern for slaves or effort to really end the slave trade by southerners. While there was sentiment against slave trading in the nation following the Revolutionary War, many proponents of ending the slave trade were slave-keepers who had no intent of manumitting the human beings they held in bondage. Again, I wouldn’t discount the sentiment against the slavery and the slave trade that existed in the nation, and in Great Britain.

However, many individuals were against the slave trade out of a racist disdain for black folk in their nations rather than out of real humanitarian concern. Thomas Jefferson certainly disdained slavery, but favored maintaining a white yeoman farmer as the citizenry of America. He favored ending the slave trade, and shipping blacks back to Africa.

For others, the real goal was to make money. Slaves were a strange “property”. Unlike the largest investment in the nation, real estate in 1800, slaves could reproduce. That allowed a slave keeper to invest by keeping and raising slaves and then selling them. Another logical reason to take good care of them. A healthy, well fed and cared for slave brought a higher price. However, a steady stream of new slaves into the nation would increase supply and decrease demand.

Simple economics convinced these slave-keepers to ban the importation of new slaves, aligning themselves with anti-slavery sentiment; all the while, making them fantastic profits. The tobacco trade was not quite as profitable at this point in history, but cotton trade was increasing dramatically due to the invention of the cotton gin. The plantation masters of the upper south began selling their slaves “down the river” as they said, to the cotton belt. The cost of slaves nearly tripled after 1808.

Carry Me Back: The Domestic Slave Trade by Steven Deyle indicates that demand for slaves in the cotton regions increased by 27.5% every decade with costs rising from $500 dollars in 1800 to $1,800 by 1860 in Louisiana. That’s roughly $35,000 dollars today.

Keep in mind, this is how Joseph and Jefferson Davis both made their fortunes, establishing themselves by 1860 as two of the wealthiest men in the entire nation.

Regarding how slave families could be split apart....though this did happen on occasion it was not commonplace. Plantation owners being wise and good Christians and excellent businessmen understood a happy servant is a productive servant and thus he would do his best to keep his servants happy and keeping the servant families together was a big part of that. Yet due to unfortunate circumstances it did happen on rare occasions.

As has been shown in previous posts on here, Slavery down South was mostly very humane. A lot of Northerner's actually believed the book 'Uncle Tom's Cabin' was a true story but it was a complete work of fiction(yet, had a big influence on the cry for abolition of slavery and some say even the Yankee desire for war) the misrepresentations of Life down south in that book and from other sources still keep many deluded in regards to the true nature of Slavery in the Great Southland.

Interview with a former Slave from the Federal Writers Project of the l930's.
Barbara Darsey
SLAVE INTERVIEW
With
CINDY KINSEY, FORMER SLAVE
About 86 Years of Age


"Yes maam, chile, I aint suah ezackly, but I think I bout 85 mebby 86
yeah old. Yes maam, I wus suah bahn in de slavery times, an I bahn right
neah de Little Rock in Arkansas, an dere I stay twell I comed right from
dere to heah in Floridy bout foah yeah gone.

"Yes maam, my people de liv on a big plantation neah de Little Rock an
we all hoe cotton. My Ma? Lawzy me, chile, she name Zola Young an my
pappy he name Nelson Young. I had broddehs Danel, Freeman, George, Will,
and Henry. Yes maam, Freeman he de younges an bahn after we done got
free. An I had sistehs by de name ob Isabella, Mary, Nora,--dat aint all
yet, you want I should name em all? Well then they was too Celie, Sally,
and me Cindy but I aint my own sisteh is I, hee, hee, hee.

"My Ole Massa, he name Marse Louis Stuart, an my Ole Missy, dat de real
ole one you know, she name,--now--let-me-see, does--I--ricollek, lawzy
me, chile, I suah fin it hard to member some things. O! yes,--her name
hit war Missy Nancy, an her chilluns dey name Little Marse Sammie an
Little Missy Fanny. I don know huccum my pappy he go by de name Young
when Ole Massa he name Marse Stuart lessen my pappy he be raised by
nother Massa fore Marse Louis got him, but I disrememba does I eber
heerd him say.

"Yes maam, chile I suah like dem days. We had lot ob fun an nothin to
worrify about, suah wish dem days wus now, chile, us niggahs heaps
better off den as now. Us always had plenty eat and plenty wearin close
too, which us aint nevah got no more. We had plenty cahn pone, baked in
de ashes too, hee, hee, hee, it shore wus good, an we had side meat, an
we had other eatin too, what ever de Ole Marse had, but I like de side
meat bes. I had a good dress for Sunday too but aint got none dese days,
jes looky, chile, dese ole rags de bes I got. My Sunday dress? Lawzy me,
chile, hit were alway a bright red cotton. I suah member dat color, us
dye de cotton right on de plantation mostly. Other close I dont ezackly
ricollek, but de mostly dark, no colahs.

"My ma, she boss all de funerls ob de niggahs on de plantation an she
got a long white veil for wearin, lawzy me, chile, she suah look
bootiful, jes lak a bride she did when she boss dem funerls in dat veil.
She not much skeered nether fo dat veil hit suah keep de hants away.
Wisht I had me dat veil right now, mout hep cure dis remutizics in ma
knee what ailin me so bad. I disrememba, but I sposen she got buried in
dat veil, chile. She hoe de cotton so Ole Marse Louis he always let her
off fo de buryings cause she know how to manage de other niggahs and
keep dem quiet at de funerls.

"No maam, chile, we didn't hab no Preacher-mans much, hit too fah away
to git one when de niggah die. We sung songs and my ma she say a Bible
vurs what Ole Missy don lernt her. Be vurs, lawsy me, chile, suah wish I
could member hit for you. Dem songs? I don jes recollek, but hit seem
lak de called 'Gimme Dem Golden Slippahs', an a nother one hit wah 'Ise
Goin To Heben In De Charot Ob Fiah', suah do wish I could recollek de
words an sing em foh you, chile, but I caint no more, my min, hit aint
no good lak what it uster be.

"Yes maam, chile, I suah heerd ob Mr. Lincoln but not so much. What
dat mans wanter free us niggahs when we so happy an not nothin to
worrify us. No, maam, I didn't see none dem Yankee sojers but I heerd
od[TR: of?] dem an we alwy skeerd dey come. Us all cotch us rabbits an
weah de lef hine foots roun our nek wif a bag ob akkerfedity, yessum I
guess dat what I mean, an hit shore smell bad an hit keep off de fevah
too, an if a Yankee cotch you wif dat rabbit foots an dat akkerfedity
bag roun youh nek, he suah turn you loose right now.

"Yes maam, chile, Ise a Baptis and sho proud ob it. Praise de Lord and
go to Church, dat de onliest way to keep de debbil offen youh trail and
den sometime he almos kotch up wif you. Lawsy me, chile, when de
Preacher-mans baptiz me he had duck me under de wateh twell I mos dron,
de debbil he got such a holt on me an jes wont let go, but de
Preacher-mans he kep a duckin me an he finaly shuck de debbil loose an
he aint bother me much sence, dat is not very much, an dat am a long
time ago.

"Yes maam, chile, some ob de niggahs dey run off from Ole Marse Louis,
but de alway come back bout stahved, hee, hee, hee, an do dey eat, an
Ole Marse, he alway take em back an give em plenty eatins. Yes maam, he
alway good to us and he suah give us niggahs plenty eatins all de time.
When Crismus come, you know chile, hit be so cole, and Old Marse, he let
us make a big fiah, a big big fiah in de yahd roun which us live, an us
all dance rounde fiah, and Ole Missy she brang us Crismus Giff. What war
de giff? Lawzy me, chile, de mostly red woolen stockings and some times
a pair of shoeses, an my wus we proud. An Ole Marse Louis, he giv de
real old niggahs, both de mens an de owmans, a hot toddy, hee, hee, hee.
Lawzy me, chile, dem wus de good days, who give an ole niggah like me a
hot toddy dese days? an talkin you bout dem days, chile, sho mek me wish
dey was now."




FEDERAL WRITERS' PROJECT
American Guide, (Negro Writers' Unit)

 

[TheGreenHornet]

for the most part and though it did no always live up to the Biblical requirements for the treatment of slaves...the Negroes were far better off here in America than they were or would have been in Africa.

And they're even better off now that they aren't slaves. Go figure....

Better for some but not for all. A good case can be made that most Africans were better off on the plantations. Supporting that contention is the fact that our prisons are overwhelmingly full of young African men. The huge unemployment rate. The Drug problem in the inner cities. The gang warfare in the inner-cities. The huge numbers of Africans killed by other Africans. The fact that so many are un-employable and dependent on welfare. etc.etc. and so on and so forth. Their quality of life in the inner cities is quite tragic and it is true that many former slaves stated in interviews conducted by writers sent down south during the great depression to record their experiences under slavery said quite openly they longed for those days on the Plantation that it was a much better way of life for them.

 

[JoeMoma]

I have not read the entire thread up to this point, and I do not endorse the OP. That being said, I do believe that history is written by the victors. That is one reason Lincoln is deemed historically as one of our greatest presidents, if not the greatest. Also, Lincoln was assassinated shortly after the civil war ended, thus becoming a martyr. Because of this I am of the opinion that the greatness of Lincoln has been exaggerated. That being said, the road not taken will always be a road not known, so we will never know what would have happen if the civil war had somehow been avoided.

 

[TheGreenHornet]

I have not read the entire thread up to this point, and I do not endorse the OP. That being said, I do believe that history is written by the victors. That is one reason Lincoln is deemed historically as one of our greatest presidents, if not the greatest. Also, Lincoln was assassinated shortly after the civil war ended, thus becoming a martyr. Because of this I am of the opinion that the greatness of Lincoln has been exaggerated. That being said, the road not taken will always be a road not known, so we will never know what would have happen if the civil war had somehow been avoided.

The prevention of at least 650,000 deaths (probably more) would have been a good thing. Avoiding the huge material costs would have been a good thing. Avoiding the destitution of so many thousands would have been a good thing. Not allowing so much power to be accrued in Washington--understanding and recognizing the idea of the Constitutional Cofederancy would have been a good thing for the greater freedom of all A great ideal and hope for preserving humankind from the domineering rule of liberals,socialists, Marxists,communists,dictators, kings, tyrants, monarchists, autocrats,czars, potentates and despots.

 

[paperview]

A rather incoherent statement and not true.
The Federal government made it illegal to import slaves in 1807.but that did not stop it. More than 3 million slaves were introduced into the Americas even after it was made illegal. Even the Confederate Constitution banned the further importation of Slaves into The Great South-Land.

However, this was not out of any concern for slaves or effort to really end the slave trade by southerners. While there was sentiment against slave trading in the nation following the Revolutionary War, many proponents of ending the slave trade were slave-keepers who had no intent of manumitting the human beings they held in bondage. Again, I wouldn’t discount the sentiment against the slavery and the slave trade that existed in the nation, and in Great Britain.

However, many individuals were against the slave trade out of a racist disdain for black folk in their nations rather than out of real humanitarian concern. Thomas Jefferson certainly disdained slavery, but favored maintaining a white yeoman farmer as the citizenry of America. He favored ending the slave trade, and shipping blacks back to Africa.

For others, the real goal was to make money. Slaves were a strange “property”. Unlike the largest investment in the nation, real estate in 1800, slaves could reproduce. That allowed a slave keeper to invest by keeping and raising slaves and then selling them. Another logical reason to take good care of them. A healthy, well fed and cared for slave brought a higher price. However, a steady stream of new slaves into the nation would increase supply and decrease demand.

Boo's post was not incoherent, but yours is.

Let's start with this:

"The Federal government made it illegal to import slaves in 1807.but that did not stop it. More than 3 million slaves were introduced into the Americas even after it was made illegal."

Right off the bat, you make a humongous error in imagining the "the America's" are the United States. derp on a stick.

The America's include Central America and South America - neither of which "made it illegal" after 1807.

Talk about getting off to a bad start.

"Even the Confederate Constitution banned the further importation of Slaves into The Great South-Land."

And again. There was a very strong incentive to keep the international slave trade banned in the CSA. We were breeding them here at an astounding rate - with some states populated with more slaves than free.
No need to import. The money stays here. Double derp.

I stopped reading there. No need when one makes such huge errors up front.

All told, the slaves that came directly from Africa to the U.S. accounted for less than 1% of the total slave population.

 

[JakeStarkey]

for the most part and though it did no always live up to the Biblical requirements for the treatment of slaves...the Negroes were far better off here in America than they were or would have been in Africa.

And they're even better off now that they aren't slaves. Go figure....

Better for some but not for all. A good case can be made that most Africans were better off on the plantations. Supporting that contention is the fact that our prisons are overwhelmingly full of young African men. The huge unemployment rate. The Drug problem in the inner cities. The gang warfare in the inner-cities. The huge numbers of Africans killed by other Africans. The fact that so many are un-employable and dependent on welfare. etc.etc. and so on and so forth. Their quality of life in the inner cities is quite tragic and it is true that many former slaves stated in interviews conducted by writers sent down south during the great depression to record their experiences under slavery said quite openly they longed for those days on the Plantation that it was a much better way of life for them.

^^^ Proof positive of race insanity by TheGreenHornet.

 

[Dr Grump]

A good case can be made that most Africans were better off on the plantations.

No. It couldn't.

 

[P@triot]

The majority of people back then believed and the more astute and intelligent today, still believe and (those who are knowledegable regarding genetics) understand that Negroes were designed by Nature(Creator) to be slaves; that they were part of a 'degraded caste' meant to serve the rest of humanity...

What...the....fuck?

“We hold these truths to be self-evident...that all men were created equal. That they were endowed by their creator (God) with certain unalienable rights”.

 

[paperview]

Yes. Read this again===


Sundance: "The majority of people back then believed and the more astute and intelligent today, still believe and (those who are knowledegable regarding genetics) understand that Negroes were designed by Nature(Creator) to be slaves; that they were part of a 'degraded caste' meant to serve the rest of humanity...and of course any advanced civilization must have servants(at least until robots are able to assume that role)....a glaring hypocrisy in America today is that we are perfectly o.k. with illegal mexican immigrants being our servants...but our historical servants are too entitled by their supposed victimhood to serve in such roles any longer....mostly democrats that think like that..... also believing in the concept of 'the democrat plantation' as in keep the Negroes on the dole so they will always vote for the democrat.

Most Southerners based the legitamacy of slavery (it had been legal for thousands of years) on the Bible....which from Genesis to Revelation sanctions slavery."

koshergirl gave this post a "Winner."

These are the Trump Klansmen we are dealing with these days.

Never forget.

 

[Syriusly]

for the most part and though it did no always live up to the Biblical requirements for the treatment of slaves...the Negroes were far better off here in America than they were or would have been in Africa.

And they're even better off now that they aren't slaves. Go figure....

Better for some but not for all. A good case can be made that most Africans were better off on the plantations..

Yeah- I hear racists trying to make that 'good case'- somehow you think that African Americans were better off on the plantations where their children could be raped by master, or their wives- and their girls sold off to brothels.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Syriusly, the slavery defenders like TheGreenHornet are loopy, srsly.