Zone1 If someone attempts to rob you At knife or gunpoint do you believe you have a right to shoot them in response?

[protectionist]

No, not a legal right.

What about the Fleeing Felon Rule ?

Fleeing felon rule - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Yes good point

That reminds me of the situation I saw on video where a robber came into a restaurant and demanded at gunpoint that everybody empty their wallets… they did so but as the robber went to leave the store he was shot from behind by a customer…It turned out the robber had a fake gun.

Should the shooter face legal repercussions?

Even though the robber had a fake gun, nobody would’ve known that. Frankly, I think if somebody with a weapon goes into a store or restaurant you name it and demands money, they shd expect they might die doing so in the process.

Our self-defense laws are for protecting yourself, or another, by allowing an affirmative defense to an act that usually is unlawful - shooting someone.

However the self-defense laws require an "imminent" (immediate) threat of grievous bodily harm or death. Shooting someone who is running away means you shot someone who was no longer presenting a threat to you of imminent bodily harm or death, said threat being a required element of invoking the "shooting in self-defense" law.

“Grievous bodily harm” is defined to mean​

• the loss of a distinct organ of the body; or
• serious disfigurement; or
• any bodily injury of such nature that, if left untreated, would endanger or be likely to endanger life or cause or be likely to cause permanent injury to health;

whether or not medical treatment is or could have been available.
Grievous Bodily Harm | Potts Lawyers Brisbane & Gold Coast​

​

​

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Yes good point

That reminds me of the situation I saw on video where a robber came into a restaurant and demanded at gunpoint that everybody empty their wallets… they did so but as the robber went to leave the store he was shot from behind by a customer…It turned out the robber had a fake gun.

Should the shooter face legal repercussions?

Even though the robber had a fake gun, nobody would’ve known that. Frankly, I think if somebody with a weapon goes into a store or restaurant you name it and demands money, they shd expect they might die doing so in the process.

I remember that case, it occurred at a taqueria in Texas I believe. The guy who shot the robber in the back then collected the money the robber took from everyone and gave it back to the customers if I recall correctly, which I didn't think he should have done. I was thinking it made it appear that it was less about defense and more about the principle of the matter.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Someone pulls a weapon to rob you.
You legally have the right to shoot them.
It's people that chase the robber for 2 blocks down the street and shoot him.
Are the people who end up getting arrested and charged with a crime.

Not if you are in south Florida and appear before Judge Beth Bloom. She thinks chasing someone down for blocks and then stabbing them to death for stealing your car radio is "self defense" as well as "standing your ground":

Judge Cites "Stand Your Ground" to Clear Greyston Garcia in Little Havana Stabbing​

In the midst of the Trayvon Martin controversy, Miami-Dade Circuit Judge Beth Bloom has cited Florida's controversial Stand Your Ground law to drop charges against Greyston Garcia after he fatally stabbed a car radio thief in Little Havana on January 25th. Though, Garcia apparently initiated the violence, never called police,...
Judge Cites "Stand Your Ground" to Clear Greyston Garcia in Little Havana Stabbing​

 

[GLASNOST]

That’s the situation you’re walking down the street and somebody approaches you and pulls out a knife or gun and attempts to rob you saying “give me what you have”. Do you then have a right to shoot that person?

Well ..... if that's all you have .....

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Not sure why that is arrestable? The armedcriminal took your stuff. Should be able to put it down?

Because our laws don't allow us to shoot and kill another person for "stuff" (property). You can only use deadly force if you're facing an imminent threat of grievous bodily harm or death.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

The thing is, by the time a decision to kill has been made, a person is going to be pretty charged up, maximum adrenaline pumping, and most likely functioning on instinct.

That's why you make the decision before you ever find yourself in that situation. Calmly, rationally. Are you willing to take the life of another depending upon the circumstances. If so you'd best think through all of the negative repercussions that could result and again affirm if you're still willing to accept the consequences.

There are plenty of people in our country who will do everything they can to see that you are punished for daring to prioritize your life over the life of someone else who threatened you with a lethal weapon, especially if you're female and he is a current or former intimate partner. I know this doesn't fit the scenario put forth by the OP but it's still valid self-defense that one can be punished for unfortunately.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

What about the Fleeing Felon Rule ?

Fleeing felon rule - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That's for the police, not citizens.

 

[braalian]

Because our laws don't allow us to shoot and kill another person for "stuff" (property). You can only use deadly force if you're facing an imminent threat of grievous bodily harm or death.

I have zero sympathy for any robber/mugger who is killed by his intended victim, up to and including them getting shot in the back.

My only concern with changing the law to allow this is scenarios where paranoid, trigger-happy half-senile old dudes shoot anyone who happens to step foot on their property for any reason

They could say they were just “protecting their property”

Some poor black kid busting his hump delivering pizza accidentally goes to the wrong house and winds up getting shot by some old bigot with dementia and a gun

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

I understand your reasoning but also believe perhaps you should have offered a third option such as "It depends".

Under your scenario as outlined, yes each person has the right to defend themselves from what they perceive as an imminent threat of grievous bodily harm and/or death. The threat that they would be defending themselves from is the weapon, knife or gun that the robber presents in order to coerce their compliance.

It is unlawful however to retrieve your own weapon and shoot them after the fact because you're angry or don't want them to get away. I didn't make the laws, I'm just relaying what I've been taught. But as I understand it, in the state of Texas, especially if it's after dark, you may have a little more leeway way in shooting, if the person came onto your property and was attempting to abscond.

With respect my friend it’s a very straightforward situation as described by the original post. You’re walking down the street and all of a sudden someone comes up to you and pulls out a knife or a gun to rob you … so the question is do you think you have a right to shoot that person? This is not a “ it depends” thing…. It’s a straightforward situation and I’m asking folks what they think about it.




It’s a straightforward situation. But if you’re interested in bringing up other scenarios which are different go ahead and provide your opinion on the different scenarios.

 

[The Duke]

Not if you are in south Florida and appear before Judge Beth Bloom. She thinks chasing someone down for blocks and then stabbing them to death for stealing your car radio is "self defense" as well as "standing your ground":

Judge Cites "Stand Your Ground" to Clear Greyston Garcia in Little Havana Stabbing​

In the midst of the Trayvon Martin controversy, Miami-Dade Circuit Judge Beth Bloom has cited Florida's controversial Stand Your Ground law to drop charges against Greyston Garcia after he fatally stabbed a car radio thief in Little Havana on January 25th. Though, Garcia apparently initiated the violence, never called police,...​

Judge Cites "Stand Your Ground" to Clear Greyston Garcia in Little Havana Stabbing​

Don't screw around in FL, we don't play that here.

Yeah, I don't think I'd do that, but I saw some guys hock a car radio thief down one day and beat the crap out of him and then called the police and they didn't get in any trouble.

It was wayy before that law, though.

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

In more civilized countries of the world, such violence is completely unheard of. Like Saudi Arabia or Singapore. That’s a real credit to those beautiful people over there and clearly their policies are working out for the best. Now, one criticize a certain aspect(s) of those societies that’s fine, but what they are doing with regards to safety is obviously the right thing. And obviously their culture is a little bit better than ours currently. I think the USA had a wonderful culture in the 1950s. We had a better middle class in those days.
Im paying homage to our grandparents.

America has changed since the 1980s with the rise of radical feminism and left-wing cancel culture. Maybe in some ways it started in the 1960s with the Vietnam War protests and the hippie movement. For whatever good things they had in mind they’re seemingly was negative results as well.

All the shootings we have in Chicago and in Baltimore today is a disgrace to humanity. Nothing really is done about it because it continues to happen every weekend. It might be that a major paramount change is needed, and some authoritarian measures must be taken. Consider also the amount of vandalism and graffiti on the sides of buildings….. may be some authoritarian measures are needed to stop things like that. To stop the filth of this country… let’s make America clean and respectable again

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

I am pretty sure that nobody has their hands cut off anymore in Saudi Arabia. But something is going on there where the people of the country are walking around in a very clean, wealthy environment. Whatever criticisms people have toward that country and some of them might be valid…. one cannot deny it is a safer country compared to America. Why can’t we just have the safety that Saudi Arabia has. That doesn’t mean we have to become Muslim majority no.


And it’s a number of things , the rise of radical feminism, BLM, anti-American hatred, laziness, drug use, the idea that reparations are OK in America, seems like our architecture pretty much sucks these days. I think all of this plays a role in our violent crime issues like for example all the gang banger shootings in Chicago. There’s a lot of problems in America. It doesn’t have to be like this though.

 

[braalian]

Not if you are in south Florida and appear before Judge Beth Bloom. She thinks chasing someone down for blocks and then stabbing them to death for stealing your car radio is "self defense" as well as "standing your ground":

Judge Cites "Stand Your Ground" to Clear Greyston Garcia in Little Havana Stabbing​

In the midst of the Trayvon Martin controversy, Miami-Dade Circuit Judge Beth Bloom has cited Florida's controversial Stand Your Ground law to drop charges against Greyston Garcia after he fatally stabbed a car radio thief in Little Havana on January 25th. Though, Garcia apparently initiated the violence, never called police,...​

Judge Cites "Stand Your Ground" to Clear Greyston Garcia in Little Havana Stabbing​

Good for her

 

[protectionist]

That's for the police, not citizens.

Some states continue to allow private citizens to use deadly force to protect property or prevent the escape of nonviolent fleeing felons.12

Examples >> in Michigan, in People vs Couch, and in South Carolina in State vs Cooney, state court decisions have expressly authorized private persons to use deadly force to stop nonviolent fleeing felons. See, e.g., People v. Couch, 461 N.W.2d 683, 684 (Mich. 1990) (holding that Garner did not modify the common law fleeing felon privilege of a private person to use deadly force); State v. Cooney, 463 S.E.2d 597, 599 (S.C. 1995) (“[W]e find the holding inGarner does not apply to seizures by private persons and does not change the State’s criminal law with respect to citizens using force in apprehending a fleeing felon.”). Texas, by statute, authorizes the private use of deadly force, when necessary, to prevent the escape of many felons

https://scholarship.law.nd.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1787&context=ndlr

The common law fleeing felon rule, as it applies to private persons, is arguably constitutionally permissible, because of the state action doctrine.13
The state action doctrine and its exceptions are among the most fundamental, important, and misunderstood principles of constitutional law.14
Under the state action doctrine, most of the Constitution’s protections of individual liberties restrict the conduct of government actors, but they do not restrict the conduct of private actors.15

https://scholarship.law.nd.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1787&context=ndlr

 

[SavannahMann]

What ever you do get a lawyer before you talk to cops.

 

[protectionist]

In more civilized countries of the world, such violence is completely unheard of. Like Saudi Arabia or Singapore. That’s a real credit to those beautiful people over there and clearly their policies are working out for the best. Now, one criticize a certain aspect(s) of those societies that’s fine, but what they are doing with regards to safety is obviously the right thing. And obviously their culture is a little bit better than ours currently. I think the USA had a wonderful culture in the 1950s. We had a better middle class in those days.
Im paying homage to our grandparents.

America has changed since the 1980s with the rise of radical feminism and left-wing cancel culture. Maybe in some ways it started in the 1960s with the Vietnam War protests and the hippie movement. For whatever good things they had in mind they’re seemingly was negative results as well.

All the shootings we have in Chicago and in Baltimore today is a disgrace to humanity. Nothing really is done about it because it continues to happen every weekend. It might be that a major paramount change is needed, and some authoritarian measures must be taken. Consider also the amount of vandalism and graffiti on the sides of buildings….. may be some authoritarian measures are needed to stop things like that. To stop the filth of this country… let’s make America clean and respectable again

Graffiti can be stopped with street cameras and much tougher sentences for violators. Today I saw a walkthrough video of a residential neighborhood in New York. On one side of the street, the whole block was covered in graffiti. On the other side was a beautiful big white wall, with cameras in it, about 20 feet above the ground. Not a mark on it.

 

[WinterBorn]

What about the Fleeing Felon Rule ?

Fleeing felon rule - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Does not apply here. You might even say, it is OFF TOPIC!

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

I have zero sympathy for any robber/mugger who is killed by his intended victim, up to and including them getting shot in the back.

My only concern with changing the law to allow this is scenarios where paranoid, trigger-happy half-senile old dudes shoot anyone who happens to step foot on their property for any reason

They could say they were just “protecting their property”

Some poor black kid busting his hump delivering pizza accidentally goes to the wrong house and winds up getting shot by some old bigot with dementia and a gun

And we've already seen this, repeatedly, including the guy who shot an Urber driver because he erroneously thought she was a part of a group who had or was trying to scam him out of some money

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

With respect my friend it’s a very straightforward situation as described by the original post. You’re walking down the street and all of a sudden someone comes up to you and pulls out a knife or a gun to rob you … so the question is do you think you have a right to shoot that person? This is not a “ it depends” thing…. It’s a straightforward situation and I’m asking folks what they think about it.




It’s a straightforward situation. But if you’re interested in bringing up other scenarios which are different go ahead and provide your opinion on the different scenarios.

Of course you have the legal right to do so as long as you're defending and not retaliating, however tempting it might be to do so.