Zone1 Is Hell painful? How can God allow eternal pain?

[toobfreak]

I don't see where that answers my post

Sorry, none too bright is you.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Only bodies feel pain

Luke 16: 19-26 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

He begged for just one drop of water on his parched tongue. And he was without his body when he said it.

 

[rightwinger]

Luke 16: 19-26 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

He begged for just one drop of water on his tongue.

Only a body needs water.

Get your story straight.
Either your soul goes to Heaven or Hell or your body goes with you.

If your body is not there, you feel no pain

 

[The Irish Ram]

Only a body needs water.

Get your story straight.
Either your soul goes to Heaven or Hell or your body goes with you.

If your body is not there, you feel no pain

Then the soul of the rich man didn't beg for a drop of water? Is the Bible wrong or are you? Tell me about your knowledge of the soul and where your information comes from regarding it...

 

[rightwinger]

Then the soul of the rich man didn't beg for a drop of water? Is the Bible wrong or are you? Tell me about your knowledge of the soul and where your information comes from regarding it...

Looks like your Bible is wrong
Souls don’t eat or drink or feel pain

You do understand Biology dont you?

 

[The Irish Ram]

Looks like your Bible is wrong
Souls don’t eat or drink or feel pain

You do understand Biology dont you?

I do understand the biology of the human body. Now, you tell me about your understanding of the soul, and where your knowledge comes from. What biologist teaches us about the attributes of the soul? I'd like to read The Biology of the Soul, by ??? Reveal your biologist.

 

[ninja007]

Well, God does not force anyone to sin and end up in Hell, does He?


In Mt 18:21, the "king" in Jesus's parable (who represents God) turns this "servant" over "to the torturers" until the once-forgiven debt is paid.

Some say this debt cannot be paid so this psg is a reference to Hell

Some say the word "until" means that it is Purgatory, since the person is released once the debt is paid.

I don't think theologians have concluded which it is.. Hell or Purgatory... but in any case

Why take a chance?

Is purgatory real? No. Where did the idea of purgatory come from? It originated with Greek and pagan philosophy, in particular Plato, and was introduced into the church through Origen in the 3rd Century, who is considered a heretic by the Roman Catholic Church. In addition, the teaching of purgatory is contradictory to Scripture for it undermines its clear teaching of the sufficiency of Jesus Christ and is not taught in the Old and New Testaments.

When was purgatory introduced to the church? Sometime before the 5th Century, the Roman Catholic Church took advantage of the idea of purgatory and used it in conjunction with selling "indulgences" to help put money into the Catholic Church.

An "indulgence" is the idea that by contributing some money to the Roman Catholic Church, you could "indulge" in a certain sin and not have to worry about the punishment for that sin.

In conjunction with purgatory, parishioners were assuming that something divine was taking place when they gave the church money to have their loved ones released from that imaginary place. By giving their money, they would also have their own time reduced. I didn't know that the pope and priests had the keys to death and hell. What does the bible say happens when you die? "absent from the body, present with the Lord" 2 Cor. 5:8. Of course, that only applies to those who have put their trust in Jesus. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8: 1 What happens to those who die who don't believe in Jesus? And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment. Hebrews 9:27 When you die, judgment is immediate. Either your sins have been washed away by Christ's shed blood or they haven't been. Those who have rejected Christ still have the wrath of God abiding on them and they immediately go to hell not purgatory. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36

When we die, we will not be routed to a waitng room to await entrance to heaven. Either Christ's death paid the full price of our sins or it didn't. We will either go to hell or heaven. There is no in between. The Catholic Church is promoting a lie with its position on purgatory. Who is the father of all lies? Satan. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven. #1030 pg. 268.

The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. The church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the church, by reference to certain texts of scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire: As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age or the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come"#1031 pgs.268-269

The above statments show that the Roman Catholic Church's official stance on the death of Jesus Christ on the cross to pay for our sins was not sufficient. This is the spirit of anti-christ. Christ died for us because we are not capable of paying for our own sins. If His death does not perfectly satisfy God's wrath against us, then He is a liar and cannot be trusted!

What are the three steps of the Christian walk and do they have anything to do with purgatory?

Step 1 - Justification - Accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior. When you do this, it is "just-as-if-I" never sinned. Justification removes you from the penalty of sin. This is a free ticket to heaven. You don't have to endure a purifying fire beforehand.

Step 2 - Sanctification - Leading a life according to the Spirit as opposed to leading a life according to the world. Sanctification sets you apart from the world. The world should be able to look at your life and see that you "are not of the world". This is a lifelong process. Sanctification removes you from the power of sin. The closer you walk with God, the less tempting sin is. Buying indulgences and paying for loved ones who may be in purgatory has no place in the Christian walk.

Step 3 - Purification - No, you don't go to a room with a cleansing fire to be purified. You are purified when God calls you home to heaven and removes you from the very presence of sin. Purification is the blessed hope that all Christians await. Christians are not afraid of death...they know they are going to heaven. Imagine the fear of death when someone believes they must first go to a place of torment before they get to heaven. How can they be comforted when death approaches? Why would anyone even want to be a part of such a teaching?

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (the spirits and souls of the saved will return with Jesus to get their bodies) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. WHERFORE COMFORT ONE ANOTHER WITH THESE WORDS

Purgatory Isn't Real - The Gospel Prince

 

[BackAgain]

Unless I misunderstood (and I’m not particularly religious, so that’s a clear possibility) the analogy of hell to being like a burning garbage pit wasn’t intended to convey the notion that God wold eternally punish sinners.

Instead, to the extent that their non-physical “life” continues after they shuck the old “mortal coil,” I believe the analogy was that they just be cast aside like garbage.

I suppose it would be a miserable existence. But eternal physical pain? It’s difficult for me to imagine any divine Creator ever being that psychotic.

 

[1miseryindex]

Only a body needs water.

Get your story straight.
Either your soul goes to Heaven or Hell or your body goes with you.

If your body is not there, you feel no pain

I guess u have a problem understanding spiritual pain and misery?

One could say thesame about those in Heaven, don't u agree?

that they cannot know joy and peace because they don't have a body?

Does that make sense?

 

[rightwinger]

I guess u have a problem understanding spiritual pain and misery?

One could say thesame about those in Heaven, don't u agree?

that they cannot know joy and peace because they don't have a body?

Does that make sense?

Denial of water does not cause Spiritual Pain

 

[Genevieve]

Well, God does not force anyone to sin and end up in Hell, does He?


In Mt 18:21, the "king" in Jesus's parable (who represents God) turns this "servant" over "to the torturers" until the once-forgiven debt is paid.

Some say this debt cannot be paid so this psg is a reference to Hell

Some say the word "until" means that it is Purgatory, since the person is released once the debt is paid.

I don't think theologians have concluded which it is.. Hell or Purgatory... but in any case

Why take a chance?

We have two choices. That's it. Believe Jesus Christ died for our sins, or disbelieve it. One choice takes us to Heaven. The other - takes us elsewhere. How can a person go to a place they don't believe exists? Can't be done. It's not God that chooses. It's us doing the choosing.

 

[1miseryindex]

? It’s difficult for me to imagine any divine Creator ever being that psychotic.

Why is God seen as being psychotic?

People say God wouldn't be so cruel, but it is not God who is cruel. People are cruel to themselves in not accepting Christ and his forgiveness. If you don't do that, you are holding onto a deadly weapon and using it against yourself. And of course, that kind of sick thing could never be allowed in Heaven, where there is only LOVE and peace and joy. If anything sinful were allowed into Heaven... surprise surprise! It would not be Heaven ANY LONGER

And God loves His people, so He does not allow filthy souls into Heaven to defile it (them [His people])

 

[1miseryindex]

Denial of water does not cause Spiritual Pain

Catholics and other christians do not take everything in the Word literally

 

[rightwinger]

Catholics and other christians do not take everything in the Word literally

Nor should any Christian who is an adult.
However, many do take those parables literally

 

[1miseryindex]

We have two choices. That's it. Believe Jesus Christ died for our sins, or disbelieve it. One choice takes us to Heaven. The other - takes us elsewhere. How can a person go to a place they don't believe exists? Can't be done. It's not God that chooses. It's us doing the choosing.

makes no sense. God has control over the soul after death, yet you say How can a person go somewhere he doesn't believe exists?

makes no sense.

Like I said b4, it isvirtually impossible for protestants to understand Catholicism (true Catholicism)

which of course does not stop them from pretending to know it

 

[rightwinger]

People are cruel to themselves in not accepting Christ and his forgiveness

Christ was not cruel
The God of the Old Testament was a God to be feared not a God to be loved

 

[Genevieve]

makes no sense. God has control over the soul after death, yet you say How can a person go somewhere he doesn't believe exists?

makes no sense.

Like I said b4, it isvirtually impossible for protestants to understand Catholicism (true Catholicism)

which of course does not stop them from pretending to know it

Catholicism simply isn't biblical in so many ways. But Catholics still find Jesus (I know many who have done just that). And finding Jesus is what is important. The most important thing in anyone's life is finding and accepting Jesus.

 

[BackAgain]

Why is God seen as being psychotic?

People say God wouldn't be so cruel, but it is not God who is cruel.

Sorry. But I don’t agree at all

Assume that God is the one with all the power.

If He tolerates it or commands it, then if hell is a place of eternal pain and misery, He made it so.

It would be criminal insanity to subject anyone to eternal pain or torment for having failed to grasp whatever He has commanded or called for.

The punishment wouldn’t be anywhere near proportional to the offense.

Frankly, if God created each of us, and I don’t have the “sight” to recognize His commands, how can I be blamed for His choice of making me incomplete?

Let’s say that I’m a criminal (in the legal sense) in much of time in Earth. Say I live to old 100 years old. Why not punish me and rehabilitate me for say a hundred years once my mortal body has gone? Why would it be anything other than insane and mean spirited to punish dopey old me for all the rest of eternity?

No sense it make.

 

[1miseryindex]

Christ was not cruel
The God of the Old Testament was a God to be feared not a God to be loved

I guess you don't see that sin has ANY consequences at all?!!!

So if someone murders someone, that person should not go to prison for life or get the death penalty?

sheez

with you incharge, the whole world would have utterly destroyed itself centuries ago

 

[1miseryindex]

Sorry. But I don’t agree at all

Assume that God is the one with all the power.

If He tolerates it or commands it, then if hell is a place of eternal pain and misery, He made it so.

It would be criminal insanity to subject anyone to eternal pain or torment for having failed to grasp whatever He has commanded or called for.

I read this far.

You don't understand the absolute holiness of God and the utter depravity of man