Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The wall is a security countermeasure and border control device.

Another Intentional Misinterpretation and Misrepresentation

(COMMENT)

Apartheid means an entirely different thing. There is no inhuman act in it, and it is not an example of domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime. There is no racial group or groups one the Arab Palestinian side that does not exist on the Israeli side. In fact, Israel has much more diversity than does either the West Bank or Gaza Strip.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Challenger]

Hasbara is a Hebrew word and concept, can't be Islamic.

Hollow Hollie obviously looked up "taqiyya" found out what it really means and so stopped using it.

 

[Challenger]

The wall is a security countermeasure and border control device.

It's a cynical land grab, you know it and we know it, otherwise it would have been built on the Zionist side of the green line and be half as long as it is.

 

[Hollie]

Hasbara is a Hebrew word and concept, can't be Islamic.

Hollow Hollie obviously looked up "taqiyya" found out what it really means and so stopped using it.

Ah. Name calling.

 

[montelatici]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The wall is a security countermeasure and border control device.

Another Intentional Misinterpretation and Misrepresentation

(COMMENT)

Apartheid means an entirely different thing. There is no inhuman act in it, and it is not an example of domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime. There is no racial group or groups one the Arab Palestinian side that does not exist on the Israeli side. In fact, Israel has much more diversity than does either the West Bank or Gaza Strip.

Most Respectfully,
R

The South Africans know quite a bit more about Apartheid than you do. There is no doubt that Israel practices Apartheid. Just a small excerpt from the Executive Summary of the South African Human Sciences Research Council Study is all that is needed to shut the apologists up.

"In examining Israel’s practices under the prism of the Apartheid Convention, this study also recalls the system of apartheid as it was practiced in South Africa because those practices illustrate the concerns and intentions of the drafters of the Apartheid Convention. It must be clear, however, that practices in South Africa are not the test or benchmark for a finding of apartheid elsewhere, as the principal instrument which provides this test lies in the terms of the Apartheid Convention itself.

By examining Israel’s practices in the light of Article 2 of the Apartheid Convention, this study concludes that Israel has introduced a system of apartheid in the OPT. In regard to each ‘inhuman act’ listed in Article 2, the study has found the following: o Article 2(a) regarding the denial of the right to life and liberty of person is satisfied by Israeli measures to repress Palestinian dissent against the occupation and its system of domination. Israel's policies and practices include murder, in the form of extrajudicial killings; torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment of detainees; a military court system that falls far short of international standards for fair trial; and arbitrary arrest and detention of Palestinians, including administrative detention imposed without charge or trial and lacking adequate judicial review. All of these practices are discriminatory in that Palestinians are subject to legal systems and courts which apply standards of evidence and procedure that are different from those applied to Jewish settlers living the OPT and that result in harsher penalties for Palestinians. o Article 2(b) regarding ‘the deliberate imposition on a racial group or groups of living conditions calculated to cause its or their physical destruction in whole or in part’ is not satisfied, as the Israel’s policies and practices in the OPT are not found to have the intent of causing the physical destruction of the Palestinian people. Policies of collective punishment that entail grave consequences for life and health, such as closures imposed on the Gaza Strip that limit or eliminate Palestinian access to essential health care and medicine, fuel, and adequate nutrition, and Israeli military attacks that inflict high civilian casualties, are serious violations of international humanitarian and human rights law but do not meet the threshold required by this provision regarding the OPT as a whole. o Article 2(c) regarding measures calculated to prevent a racial group from participation in the political, social, economic and cultural life of the country and to prevent the full development of a group through the denial of basic human rights and freedoms is satisfied on several counts: (i) Restrictions on the Palestinian right to freedom of movement are endemic in the West Bank, stemming from Israel's control of the OPT's checkpoints and crossings, impediments created by the Wall and its crossing points, a matrix of separate roads, and obstructive and all encompassing permit and ID systems that apply solely to Palestinians. (ii) The right of Palestinians to choose their own place of residence within their territory is severely curtailed by systematic administrative restrictions on Palestinian residency and building in East Jerusalem, by discriminatory legislation that operates to prevent Palestinian spouses from living together

https://www.kairosresponse.org/south_africa_report_icahd_1.html

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The wall is a security countermeasure and border control device.

Another Intentional Misinterpretation and Misrepresentation

(COMMENT)

Apartheid means an entirely different thing. There is no inhuman act in it, and it is not an example of domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime. There is no racial group or groups one the Arab Palestinian side that does not exist on the Israeli side. In fact, Israel has much more diversity than does either the West Bank or Gaza Strip.

Most Respectfully,
R

The South Africans know quite a bit more about Apartheid than you do. There is no doubt that Israel practices Apartheid. Just a small excerpt from the Executive Summary of the South African Human Sciences Research Council Study is all that is needed to shut the apologists up.

"In examining Israel’s practices under the prism of the Apartheid Convention, this study also recalls the system of apartheid as it was practiced in South Africa because those practices illustrate the concerns and intentions of the drafters of the Apartheid Convention. It must be clear, however, that practices in South Africa are not the test or benchmark for a finding of apartheid elsewhere, as the principal instrument which provides this test lies in the terms of the Apartheid Convention itself.

By examining Israel’s practices in the light of Article 2 of the Apartheid Convention, this study concludes that Israel has introduced a system of apartheid in the OPT. In regard to each ‘inhuman act’ listed in Article 2, the study has found the following: o Article 2(a) regarding the denial of the right to life and liberty of person is satisfied by Israeli measures to repress Palestinian dissent against the occupation and its system of domination. Israel's policies and practices include murder, in the form of extrajudicial killings; torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment of detainees; a military court system that falls far short of international standards for fair trial; and arbitrary arrest and detention of Palestinians, including administrative detention imposed without charge or trial and lacking adequate judicial review. All of these practices are discriminatory in that Palestinians are subject to legal systems and courts which apply standards of evidence and procedure that are different from those applied to Jewish settlers living the OPT and that result in harsher penalties for Palestinians. o Article 2(b) regarding ‘the deliberate imposition on a racial group or groups of living conditions calculated to cause its or their physical destruction in whole or in part’ is not satisfied, as the Israel’s policies and practices in the OPT are not found to have the intent of causing the physical destruction of the Palestinian people. Policies of collective punishment that entail grave consequences for life and health, such as closures imposed on the Gaza Strip that limit or eliminate Palestinian access to essential health care and medicine, fuel, and adequate nutrition, and Israeli military attacks that inflict high civilian casualties, are serious violations of international humanitarian and human rights law but do not meet the threshold required by this provision regarding the OPT as a whole. o Article 2(c) regarding measures calculated to prevent a racial group from participation in the political, social, economic and cultural life of the country and to prevent the full development of a group through the denial of basic human rights and freedoms is satisfied on several counts: (i) Restrictions on the Palestinian right to freedom of movement are endemic in the West Bank, stemming from Israel's control of the OPT's checkpoints and crossings, impediments created by the Wall and its crossing points, a matrix of separate roads, and obstructive and all encompassing permit and ID systems that apply solely to Palestinians. (ii) The right of Palestinians to choose their own place of residence within their territory is severely curtailed by systematic administrative restrictions on Palestinian residency and building in East Jerusalem, by discriminatory legislation that operates to prevent Palestinian spouses from living together

Is Israeli An Apartheid State? ICAHD-USA Summary

Article 2(b) regarding ‘the deliberate imposition on a racial group or groups of living conditions calculated to cause its or their physical destruction in whole or in part’ is not satisfied, as the Israel’s policies and practices in the OPT are not found to have the intent of causing the physical destruction of the Palestinian people.​

They must have missed this.




Of course the destruction of food and water sources are acts of genocide.

 

[Hollie]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The wall is a security countermeasure and border control device.

Another Intentional Misinterpretation and Misrepresentation

(COMMENT)

Apartheid means an entirely different thing. There is no inhuman act in it, and it is not an example of domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime. There is no racial group or groups one the Arab Palestinian side that does not exist on the Israeli side. In fact, Israel has much more diversity than does either the West Bank or Gaza Strip.

Most Respectfully,
R

The South Africans know quite a bit more about Apartheid than you do. There is no doubt that Israel practices Apartheid. Just a small excerpt from the Executive Summary of the South African Human Sciences Research Council Study is all that is needed to shut the apologists up.

"In examining Israel’s practices under the prism of the Apartheid Convention, this study also recalls the system of apartheid as it was practiced in South Africa because those practices illustrate the concerns and intentions of the drafters of the Apartheid Convention. It must be clear, however, that practices in South Africa are not the test or benchmark for a finding of apartheid elsewhere, as the principal instrument which provides this test lies in the terms of the Apartheid Convention itself.

By examining Israel’s practices in the light of Article 2 of the Apartheid Convention, this study concludes that Israel has introduced a system of apartheid in the OPT. In regard to each ‘inhuman act’ listed in Article 2, the study has found the following: o Article 2(a) regarding the denial of the right to life and liberty of person is satisfied by Israeli measures to repress Palestinian dissent against the occupation and its system of domination. Israel's policies and practices include murder, in the form of extrajudicial killings; torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment of detainees; a military court system that falls far short of international standards for fair trial; and arbitrary arrest and detention of Palestinians, including administrative detention imposed without charge or trial and lacking adequate judicial review. All of these practices are discriminatory in that Palestinians are subject to legal systems and courts which apply standards of evidence and procedure that are different from those applied to Jewish settlers living the OPT and that result in harsher penalties for Palestinians. o Article 2(b) regarding ‘the deliberate imposition on a racial group or groups of living conditions calculated to cause its or their physical destruction in whole or in part’ is not satisfied, as the Israel’s policies and practices in the OPT are not found to have the intent of causing the physical destruction of the Palestinian people. Policies of collective punishment that entail grave consequences for life and health, such as closures imposed on the Gaza Strip that limit or eliminate Palestinian access to essential health care and medicine, fuel, and adequate nutrition, and Israeli military attacks that inflict high civilian casualties, are serious violations of international humanitarian and human rights law but do not meet the threshold required by this provision regarding the OPT as a whole. o Article 2(c) regarding measures calculated to prevent a racial group from participation in the political, social, economic and cultural life of the country and to prevent the full development of a group through the denial of basic human rights and freedoms is satisfied on several counts: (i) Restrictions on the Palestinian right to freedom of movement are endemic in the West Bank, stemming from Israel's control of the OPT's checkpoints and crossings, impediments created by the Wall and its crossing points, a matrix of separate roads, and obstructive and all encompassing permit and ID systems that apply solely to Palestinians. (ii) The right of Palestinians to choose their own place of residence within their territory is severely curtailed by systematic administrative restrictions on Palestinian residency and building in East Jerusalem, by discriminatory legislation that operates to prevent Palestinian spouses from living together

Is Israeli An Apartheid State? ICAHD-USA Summary

Article 2(b) regarding ‘the deliberate imposition on a racial group or groups of living conditions calculated to cause its or their physical destruction in whole or in part’ is not satisfied, as the Israel’s policies and practices in the OPT are not found to have the intent of causing the physical destruction of the Palestinian people.​

They must have missed this.




Of course the destruction of food and water sources are acts of genocide.

Of course, the problem with these cut and paste YouTube videos is that they are often impossible to verify as to authenticity.

Otherwise, the genocide™ label adds that lovely melodrama you require.

(snicker)

 

[flacaltenn]

This thread is in danger of being closed. It EXISTS to discuss "who are the Palestinians?"
That should make it obvious what is ON TOPIC and what is off.

As long as it remains opened -- you are subject to being warned for OFF-TOPIC posts.
EVEN IF -- you are responding to previous off-topic posts.
Get course corrected and keep this thread on the topic..

Thanks..

 

[montelatici]

In keeping with the subject of the thread. This is the most exhaustive DNA study of the Palestinian people undertaken by a neutral European university.


ABSTRACT: The genetic profile of Palestinians has, for the first time, been studied by using human leukocyte antigen (HLA) gene variability and haplotypes. The comparison with other Mediterranean populations by using neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses reveal that Palestinians are genetically very close to Jews and other Middle East populations, including Turks (Anatolians), Lebanese, Egyptians, Armenians and Iranians. Archaeologic and genetic data support that both Jews and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites, who extensively mixed with Egyptians, Mesopotamian and Anatolian peoples in ancient times. Thus, Palestinian Jewish rivalry is based in cultural and religious, but not in genetic, differences. The relatively close relatedness of both Jews and Palestinians to western Mediterranean populations reflects the continuous circum-Mediterranean cultural and gene flow that have occurred in prehistoric and historic times. This flow overtly contradicts the demic diffusion model of western Mediterranean populations substitution by agriculturalists coming from the Middle East in the Mesolithic-Neolithic transition. Human Immunology 62, 889-900 (2001). ã American Society for Histocompatibility and Immunogenetics, 2001. Published by Elsevier Science Inc.

http://www.rense.com/general48/palestinians.pdf

 

[RoccoR]

montelatici, et al,

This is some much nonsense. Even at the opening of the Article you cite, it give the very same definition.

Remembering that Israel, as a state, has the right to territorial integrity (Chapter I, Article 2(4) - UN Charter). In the case of Israel, the international boundaries were established by the Peace Treaties for Egypt (1979) and Jordan (1994); as may have been modified by the Oslo Accords.

his Working Group aims to provide guidance to Member States on implementation of the legal, institutional and practical counter-terrorism-related border control measures required. It focuses in particular on the following areas:

• terrorist mobility;
• integrity and security of travel documents;
• illicit movement of cash and bearer negotiable instruments;
• movement and processing of goods;
• illicit movement of small arms, light weapons, ammunition, explosives and weapons of mass destruction; • • aviation and maritime security;
• early-warning and alert systems;
• and control of open borders.
​

SOURCE: Home › Working Groups › Border Management and Law Enforcement relating to Counter-Terrorism
Compendium of Border Control Instruments, Standards and Recommended Practices Related to Counter-Terrorism
​

Nearly every nation has Border Management and Border Controls, even the Between the US and Canada --- the US and Mexico. The Barrier between Israel and the Palestinian State (1988) which manages and controls illegal movement across the border is no more "apartheid" than the the US and Mexico controls to stop illegal movement across the border.

The South Africans know quite a bit more about Apartheid than you do. There is no doubt that Israel practices Apartheid.

(COMMENT)

Pillar 1: The state codifies into law a preferred identity.
It then establishes adjunct laws that grant preferential legal status and material privileges to the preferred group on the basis of their identity while discriminating against the non-preferred group on the basis of the inferior status afforded them.

RESPONSE: The non-preferred groups are:

• non-citizens, and illegal immigrants,
• other border crossers without valid approval,
• and terrorist threats. Border-control systems as set out in Pillar II, paragraphs 4, 5, 7, 8, 13 to 16 and Pillar III, paragraphs 2, 4 and 11 to 13 of the United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy (A/RES/60/288).
​

Pillar 2: The state segregates the population into geographic areas based on identity.
The favored identity receives preferential access to land, water, other resources and to government benefits and services while the non-preferred group is confined to ever- shrinking, non-contiguous, besieged territorial enclaves.

RESPONSE: There are two aspects that have to be considered here.

• Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter VII. (Chapter I - Article 2(7), UN Charter)
• Both sides agreed that a Palestinian Authority (PA) would be established and assume governing responsibilities in the West Bank and Gaza Strip over a five-year period. Then, permanent status talks on the issues of borders, refugees, and Jerusalem would be held.

• Area A --- Full civil and security control by the Palestinian Authority;
• Area B --- Palestinian civil control and joint Israeli-Palestinian security control;
• Area C --- Full Israeli civil and security control...
​

Pillar 3: The state establishes security laws and policies designed to suppress any opposition to the regime.
The system of domination is reinforced through assassinations; administrative detention; torture; cruel, inhumane, or degrading treatment; and arbitrary arrest and imprisonment of the non-preferred group.

RESPONSE: As is demonstrable in this discussion group, there are those pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians that believe their is some sort of exemption, in international law, that permits Palestinians to harm Israel interests. This is an attempt either designed (likely to provoke) or encourage a breach of the peace, or promote acts of aggression, which the Palestinians do on a daily basis.

IF there is a preferred group in this regard, THEN it is that segment of Palestinian citizenry that encourages the dissemination of information designed to instill a desire for peace.
​

If there is apartheid pattern in the construction of the Security Barrier, then it is to contain the threat that organize instigates, assists or participates in terrorist acts in in Israel.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

montelatici, et al,

This is some much nonsense. Even at the opening of the Article you cite, it give the very same definition.

Remembering that Israel, as a state, has the right to territorial integrity (Chapter I, Article 2(4) - UN Charter). In the case of Israel, the international boundaries were established by the Peace Treaties for Egypt (1979) and Jordan (1994); as may have been modified by the Oslo Accords.

his Working Group aims to provide guidance to Member States on implementation of the legal, institutional and practical counter-terrorism-related border control measures required. It focuses in particular on the following areas:

• terrorist mobility;
• integrity and security of travel documents;
• illicit movement of cash and bearer negotiable instruments;
• movement and processing of goods;
• illicit movement of small arms, light weapons, ammunition, explosives and weapons of mass destruction; • • aviation and maritime security;
• early-warning and alert systems;
• and control of open borders.
​

SOURCE: Home › Working Groups › Border Management and Law Enforcement relating to Counter-Terrorism
Compendium of Border Control Instruments, Standards and Recommended Practices Related to Counter-Terrorism​

Nearly every nation has Border Management and Border Controls, even the Between the US and Canada --- the US and Mexico. The Barrier between Israel and the Palestinian State (1988) which manages and controls illegal movement across the border is no more "apartheid" than the the US and Mexico controls to stop illegal movement across the border.

The South Africans know quite a bit more about Apartheid than you do. There is no doubt that Israel practices Apartheid.

(COMMENT)

Pillar 1: The state codifies into law a preferred identity.
It then establishes adjunct laws that grant preferential legal status and material privileges to the preferred group on the basis of their identity while discriminating against the non-preferred group on the basis of the inferior status afforded them.

RESPONSE: The non-preferred groups are:

• non-citizens, and illegal immigrants,
• other border crossers without valid approval,
• and terrorist threats. Border-control systems as set out in Pillar II, paragraphs 4, 5, 7, 8, 13 to 16 and Pillar III, paragraphs 2, 4 and 11 to 13 of the United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy (A/RES/60/288).
​

Pillar 2: The state segregates the population into geographic areas based on identity.
The favored identity receives preferential access to land, water, other resources and to government benefits and services while the non-preferred group is confined to ever- shrinking, non-contiguous, besieged territorial enclaves.

RESPONSE: There are two aspects that have to be considered here.

• Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter VII. (Chapter I - Article 2(7), UN Charter)
• Both sides agreed that a Palestinian Authority (PA) would be established and assume governing responsibilities in the West Bank and Gaza Strip over a five-year period. Then, permanent status talks on the issues of borders, refugees, and Jerusalem would be held.

• Area A --- Full civil and security control by the Palestinian Authority;
• Area B --- Palestinian civil control and joint Israeli-Palestinian security control;
• Area C --- Full Israeli civil and security control...
​

Pillar 3: The state establishes security laws and policies designed to suppress any opposition to the regime.
The system of domination is reinforced through assassinations; administrative detention; torture; cruel, inhumane, or degrading treatment; and arbitrary arrest and imprisonment of the non-preferred group.

RESPONSE: As is demonstrable in this discussion group, there are those pro-Hostile Arab Palestinians that believe their is some sort of exemption, in international law, that permits Palestinians to harm Israel interests. This is an attempt either designed (likely to provoke) or encourage a breach of the peace, or promote acts of aggression, which the Palestinians do on a daily basis.

IF there is a preferred group in this regard, THEN it is that segment of Palestinian citizenry that encourages the dissemination of information designed to instill a desire for peace.
​

If there is apartheid pattern in the construction of the Security Barrier, then it is to contain the threat that organize instigates, assists or participates in terrorist acts in in Israel.

Most Respectfully,
R

Pillar 1: The state codifies into law a preferred identity.

It then establishes adjunct laws that grant preferential legal status and material privileges to the preferred group on the basis of their identity while discriminating against the non-preferred group on the basis of the inferior status afforded them.

RESPONSE: The non-preferred groups are:
• non-citizens, and illegal immigrants,​

Here again you plow through on false premise.

Citizens of Israel.​

​

Palestinian citizens residing in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem, as well as Arabs and Jews who, not holding Palestinian citizenship, reside in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem shall, upon the recognition of independence, become citizens of the State in which they are resident and enjoy full civil and political rights.

This principle was not new. Its content had already been suggested in earlier proposals concerning the Palestine problem. The principle was also consistent (despite the fact that it was embodied in a political document) with international law relating to nationality at the time of territorial succession.

https://doc.rero.ch/record/9065/files/these.pdf​

It is not about Immigration or non citizens. It is about citizens kept from entering their own country.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The wall is a security countermeasure and border control device.

Another Intentional Misinterpretation and Misrepresentation

(COMMENT)

Apartheid means an entirely different thing. There is no inhuman act in it, and it is not an example of domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime. There is no racial group or groups one the Arab Palestinian side that does not exist on the Israeli side. In fact, Israel has much more diversity than does either the West Bank or Gaza Strip.

Most Respectfully,
R

The South Africans know quite a bit more about Apartheid than you do. There is no doubt that Israel practices Apartheid. Just a small excerpt from the Executive Summary of the South African Human Sciences Research Council Study is all that is needed to shut the apologists up.

"In examining Israel’s practices under the prism of the Apartheid Convention, this study also recalls the system of apartheid as it was practiced in South Africa because those practices illustrate the concerns and intentions of the drafters of the Apartheid Convention. It must be clear, however, that practices in South Africa are not the test or benchmark for a finding of apartheid elsewhere, as the principal instrument which provides this test lies in the terms of the Apartheid Convention itself.

By examining Israel’s practices in the light of Article 2 of the Apartheid Convention, this study concludes that Israel has introduced a system of apartheid in the OPT. In regard to each ‘inhuman act’ listed in Article 2, the study has found the following: o Article 2(a) regarding the denial of the right to life and liberty of person is satisfied by Israeli measures to repress Palestinian dissent against the occupation and its system of domination. Israel's policies and practices include murder, in the form of extrajudicial killings; torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment of detainees; a military court system that falls far short of international standards for fair trial; and arbitrary arrest and detention of Palestinians, including administrative detention imposed without charge or trial and lacking adequate judicial review. All of these practices are discriminatory in that Palestinians are subject to legal systems and courts which apply standards of evidence and procedure that are different from those applied to Jewish settlers living the OPT and that result in harsher penalties for Palestinians. o Article 2(b) regarding ‘the deliberate imposition on a racial group or groups of living conditions calculated to cause its or their physical destruction in whole or in part’ is not satisfied, as the Israel’s policies and practices in the OPT are not found to have the intent of causing the physical destruction of the Palestinian people. Policies of collective punishment that entail grave consequences for life and health, such as closures imposed on the Gaza Strip that limit or eliminate Palestinian access to essential health care and medicine, fuel, and adequate nutrition, and Israeli military attacks that inflict high civilian casualties, are serious violations of international humanitarian and human rights law but do not meet the threshold required by this provision regarding the OPT as a whole. o Article 2(c) regarding measures calculated to prevent a racial group from participation in the political, social, economic and cultural life of the country and to prevent the full development of a group through the denial of basic human rights and freedoms is satisfied on several counts: (i) Restrictions on the Palestinian right to freedom of movement are endemic in the West Bank, stemming from Israel's control of the OPT's checkpoints and crossings, impediments created by the Wall and its crossing points, a matrix of separate roads, and obstructive and all encompassing permit and ID systems that apply solely to Palestinians. (ii) The right of Palestinians to choose their own place of residence within their territory is severely curtailed by systematic administrative restrictions on Palestinian residency and building in East Jerusalem, by discriminatory legislation that operates to prevent Palestinian spouses from living together

Is Israeli An Apartheid State? ICAHD-USA Summary

Article 2(b) regarding ‘the deliberate imposition on a racial group or groups of living conditions calculated to cause its or their physical destruction in whole or in part’ is not satisfied, as the Israel’s policies and practices in the OPT are not found to have the intent of causing the physical destruction of the Palestinian people.​

They must have missed this.




Of course the destruction of food and water sources are acts of genocide.

Of course, the problem with these cut and paste YouTube videos is that they are often impossible to verify as to authenticity.

Otherwise, the genocide™ label adds that lovely melodrama you require.

(snicker)

The first video is by the Christian Peacekeeping Team which is a very reputable organization.

And it is an act of genocide. Look it up.

 

[Hollie]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The wall is a security countermeasure and border control device.

Another Intentional Misinterpretation and Misrepresentation

(COMMENT)

Apartheid means an entirely different thing. There is no inhuman act in it, and it is not an example of domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime. There is no racial group or groups one the Arab Palestinian side that does not exist on the Israeli side. In fact, Israel has much more diversity than does either the West Bank or Gaza Strip.

Most Respectfully,
R

The South Africans know quite a bit more about Apartheid than you do. There is no doubt that Israel practices Apartheid. Just a small excerpt from the Executive Summary of the South African Human Sciences Research Council Study is all that is needed to shut the apologists up.

"In examining Israel’s practices under the prism of the Apartheid Convention, this study also recalls the system of apartheid as it was practiced in South Africa because those practices illustrate the concerns and intentions of the drafters of the Apartheid Convention. It must be clear, however, that practices in South Africa are not the test or benchmark for a finding of apartheid elsewhere, as the principal instrument which provides this test lies in the terms of the Apartheid Convention itself.

By examining Israel’s practices in the light of Article 2 of the Apartheid Convention, this study concludes that Israel has introduced a system of apartheid in the OPT. In regard to each ‘inhuman act’ listed in Article 2, the study has found the following: o Article 2(a) regarding the denial of the right to life and liberty of person is satisfied by Israeli measures to repress Palestinian dissent against the occupation and its system of domination. Israel's policies and practices include murder, in the form of extrajudicial killings; torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment of detainees; a military court system that falls far short of international standards for fair trial; and arbitrary arrest and detention of Palestinians, including administrative detention imposed without charge or trial and lacking adequate judicial review. All of these practices are discriminatory in that Palestinians are subject to legal systems and courts which apply standards of evidence and procedure that are different from those applied to Jewish settlers living the OPT and that result in harsher penalties for Palestinians. o Article 2(b) regarding ‘the deliberate imposition on a racial group or groups of living conditions calculated to cause its or their physical destruction in whole or in part’ is not satisfied, as the Israel’s policies and practices in the OPT are not found to have the intent of causing the physical destruction of the Palestinian people. Policies of collective punishment that entail grave consequences for life and health, such as closures imposed on the Gaza Strip that limit or eliminate Palestinian access to essential health care and medicine, fuel, and adequate nutrition, and Israeli military attacks that inflict high civilian casualties, are serious violations of international humanitarian and human rights law but do not meet the threshold required by this provision regarding the OPT as a whole. o Article 2(c) regarding measures calculated to prevent a racial group from participation in the political, social, economic and cultural life of the country and to prevent the full development of a group through the denial of basic human rights and freedoms is satisfied on several counts: (i) Restrictions on the Palestinian right to freedom of movement are endemic in the West Bank, stemming from Israel's control of the OPT's checkpoints and crossings, impediments created by the Wall and its crossing points, a matrix of separate roads, and obstructive and all encompassing permit and ID systems that apply solely to Palestinians. (ii) The right of Palestinians to choose their own place of residence within their territory is severely curtailed by systematic administrative restrictions on Palestinian residency and building in East Jerusalem, by discriminatory legislation that operates to prevent Palestinian spouses from living together

Is Israeli An Apartheid State? ICAHD-USA Summary

Article 2(b) regarding ‘the deliberate imposition on a racial group or groups of living conditions calculated to cause its or their physical destruction in whole or in part’ is not satisfied, as the Israel’s policies and practices in the OPT are not found to have the intent of causing the physical destruction of the Palestinian people.​

They must have missed this.




Of course the destruction of food and water sources are acts of genocide.

Of course, the problem with these cut and paste YouTube videos is that they are often impossible to verify as to authenticity.

Otherwise, the genocide™ label adds that lovely melodrama you require.

(snicker)

The first video is by the Christian Peacekeeping Team which is a very reputable organization.

And it is an act of genocide. Look it up.

I do wonder why you embarrass yourself with the goofy genocide™ flailing about. The "g" word adds nothing but a sense of desperation and hysteria to otherwise innocuous, silly YouTube videos.

If you want the proscription for genocide™ I'll be happy to direct you to the Hamas Charter which spells out in no uncertain terms the Islamist terrorist retrograde notion of islamo-fascism.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I find it kind-of interesting at how pro-Palestinians --- who want to believe they are being deprived of something --- begin to lose the ability to differentiate between reality and fantasy.

Pillar 1: The state codifies into law a preferred identity.

It then establishes adjunct laws that grant preferential legal status and material privileges to the preferred group on the basis of their identity while discriminating against the non-preferred group on the basis of the inferior status afforded them.

RESPONSE: The non-preferred groups are:
• non-citizens, and illegal immigrants,​

​

Here again you plow through on false premise.

Citizens of Israel.

Palestinian citizens residing in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem, as well as Arabs and Jews who, not holding Palestinian citizenship, reside in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem shall, upon the recognition of independence, become citizens of the State in which they are resident and enjoy full civil and political rights.

This principle was not new. Its content had already been suggested in earlier proposals concerning the Palestine problem. The principle was also consistent (despite the fact that it was embodied in a political document) with international law relating to nationality at the time of territorial succession.

https://doc.rero.ch/record/9065/files/these.pdf​

It is not about Immigration or non citizens. It is about citizens kept from entering their own country.

(COMMENT)

I notice that many pro-Palestinian arguments somehow often drift back to the mentality of a time closer to the 19th Century than the 21st Century.

There are virtually no Arab Palestinians (a very low probability), under the age ≈ 68 year old, that lived in the Mandate Era Palestine Territory (the territory to which the Mandate Applied).

• Life expectancy at birth: West Bank (People 65 years of age and over: 3.85%)

√ Total population: 75.91 years

∆ Male: 73.79 years
∆ female: 78.17 years (2015 est.)
​

• Life expectancy at birth: Gaza Strip (People 65 years of age and over: 2.67%)

√ Total population: 74.87 years

∆ Male: 73.11 years
∆ Female: 76.74 years (2015 est.)
​

One aspect of the fantasy is the separation from the reality that less than 7% of the Arab Palestinians could have been born in the territory recognized as the State of Israel. So it is NOT about the Arab Palestinians being kept from entering their own country; but as originally stated.

These people, are NOT representative of Arab Palestinians displaced in the conflict between 1946 and 1949; coming from a territory (Israel) outside the country of citizenship (Palestine Citizenship Order).

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I find it kind-of interesting at how pro-Palestinians --- who want to believe they are being deprived of something --- begin to lose the ability to differentiate between reality and fantasy.

Pillar 1: The state codifies into law a preferred identity.

It then establishes adjunct laws that grant preferential legal status and material privileges to the preferred group on the basis of their identity while discriminating against the non-preferred group on the basis of the inferior status afforded them.

RESPONSE: The non-preferred groups are:
• non-citizens, and illegal immigrants,​

​

Here again you plow through on false premise.

Citizens of Israel.

Palestinian citizens residing in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem, as well as Arabs and Jews who, not holding Palestinian citizenship, reside in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem shall, upon the recognition of independence, become citizens of the State in which they are resident and enjoy full civil and political rights.

This principle was not new. Its content had already been suggested in earlier proposals concerning the Palestine problem. The principle was also consistent (despite the fact that it was embodied in a political document) with international law relating to nationality at the time of territorial succession.

https://doc.rero.ch/record/9065/files/these.pdf​

It is not about Immigration or non citizens. It is about citizens kept from entering their own country.

(COMMENT)

I notice that many pro-Palestinian arguments somehow often drift back to the mentality of a time closer to the 19th Century than the 21st Century.

There are virtually no Arab Palestinians (a very low probability), under the age ≈ 68 year old, that lived in the Mandate Era Palestine Territory (the territory to which the Mandate Applied).

• Life expectancy at birth: West Bank (People 65 years of age and over: 3.85%)

√ Total population: 75.91 years

∆ Male: 73.79 years
∆ female: 78.17 years (2015 est.)
​

• Life expectancy at birth: Gaza Strip (People 65 years of age and over: 2.67%)

√ Total population: 74.87 years

∆ Male: 73.11 years
∆ Female: 76.74 years (2015 est.)
​

One aspect of the fantasy is the separation from the reality that less than 7% of the Arab Palestinians could have been born in the territory recognized as the State of Israel. So it is NOT about the Arab Palestinians being kept from entering their own country; but as originally stated.

These people, are NOT representative of Arab Palestinians displaced in the conflict between 1946 and 1949; coming from a territory (Israel) outside the country of citizenship (Palestine Citizenship Order).

Most Respectfully,
R

The right of return includes offspring. It always has.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

While it is often interpreted that way, it is NOT actually law.

The right of return includes offspring. It always has.

(COMMENT)

The UNITED NATIONS RELIEF AND WORKS AGENCY FOR PALESTINE REFUGEES IN THE NEAR EAST (UNRWA) developed a totally "independent criteria for who qualifies for services." It is called the Consolidated Eligibility and Registration Instruction (CERI) (dated June 2006 and amendments issued thereto).

The persons and groups of persons listed below are eligible to receive UNRWA’s services upon being registered in the Agency’s Registration System and obtaining an UNRWA Registration Card as proof of registration. These eligible persons fall into two groups: those who meet UNRWA’s criteria to be described as Palestine Refugees, and those who do not meet those criteria.
​

It is a type of fraud designed to increase the number of applicants eligible for services, such that the UNRWA will be in operation forever. The number of the survivors and descendents of the roughly 700,000 Palestinians who fled their homes during Israel's War of Independence are believed to number up to 4.5 million. There has no record in the 20th Century of any Refugee Program expanding 6 fold, as has the Palestinians. That is because the underlying objective of a "Refugee Program" is to

CERI Section III - A(1) is where the derivation notion of dependents originates:

Persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948, and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict. Palestine Refugees, and descendants of Palestine refugee males, including legally adopted children, are eligible to register for UNRWA services.
​

The fraud has been told over and over against some many times many just have assumed it to be true. But it is merely the criteria for services. While many Palestinians point to The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR - 1948) Article 13(2) that "Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and return to his country." as the source of the "right to return;" the UDHR was never actually adopted into law. And Article 13 is not about establishing a "right of return" for internally displaced people as a result of hostile activity. Further Article 13 does not make any mention of descendants.

In the budget year 2006-2007, the comparison between the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) and the UNRWA looked something like this.

• UNHCR is present in 116 countries, has 262 offices worldwide with 6,260 staff members – 5,400 of whom are in the field. We work with 624 partners to provide help and assistance to 32.9 million refugees, displaced and stateless people.

• UNRWA’s vital humanitarian and human development activities depend on the work of some 28,000 locally-recruited staff, many of whom have spent decades in the service of their fellow Palestinian refugees.
​

Now in case it escaped you, it takes 5 times as many Palestinian staff to handle 6 time fewer Refugees that grew by 6 fold from the same event. Or, put another way, the UNHCR can handle 5 times as many refugees with 6 times fewer people. This is all about stirring-up the pro-Palestinian Movement and the Islamic radicals so that a fee can line their pockets, and that the vast majority of the future generations of Palestinians remain in a non-productive environment.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

While it is often interpreted that way, it is NOT actually law.

The right of return includes offspring. It always has.

(COMMENT)

The UNITED NATIONS RELIEF AND WORKS AGENCY FOR PALESTINE REFUGEES IN THE NEAR EAST (UNRWA) developed a totally "independent criteria for who qualifies for services." It is called the Consolidated Eligibility and Registration Instruction (CERI) (dated June 2006 and amendments issued thereto).

The persons and groups of persons listed below are eligible to receive UNRWA’s services upon being registered in the Agency’s Registration System and obtaining an UNRWA Registration Card as proof of registration. These eligible persons fall into two groups: those who meet UNRWA’s criteria to be described as Palestine Refugees, and those who do not meet those criteria.
​

It is a type of fraud designed to increase the number of applicants eligible for services, such that the UNRWA will be in operation forever. The number of the survivors and descendents of the roughly 700,000 Palestinians who fled their homes during Israel's War of Independence are believed to number up to 4.5 million. There has no record in the 20th Century of any Refugee Program expanding 6 fold, as has the Palestinians. That is because the underlying objective of a "Refugee Program" is to

CERI Section III - A(1) is where the derivation notion of dependents originates:

Persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948, and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict. Palestine Refugees, and descendants of Palestine refugee males, including legally adopted children, are eligible to register for UNRWA services.
​

The fraud has been told over and over against some many times many just have assumed it to be true. But it is merely the criteria for services. While many Palestinians point to The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR - 1948) Article 13(2) that "Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and return to his country." as the source of the "right to return;" the UDHR was never actually adopted into law. And Article 13 is not about establishing a "right of return" for internally displaced people as a result of hostile activity. Further Article 13 does not make any mention of descendants.

In the budget year 2006-2007, the comparison between the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) and the UNRWA looked something like this.

• UNHCR is present in 116 countries, has 262 offices worldwide with 6,260 staff members – 5,400 of whom are in the field. We work with 624 partners to provide help and assistance to 32.9 million refugees, displaced and stateless people.

• UNRWA’s vital humanitarian and human development activities depend on the work of some 28,000 locally-recruited staff, many of whom have spent decades in the service of their fellow Palestinian refugees.
​

Now in case it escaped you, it takes 5 times as many Palestinian staff to handle 6 time fewer Refugees that grew by 6 fold from the same event. Or, put another way, the UNHCR can handle 5 times as many refugees with 6 times fewer people. This is all about stirring-up the pro-Palestinian Movement and the Islamic radicals so that a fee can line their pockets, and that the vast majority of the future generations of Palestinians remain in a non-productive environment.

Most Respectfully,
R

The reason that the refugees have increased so much is that the world has been dragging its feet on implementing return for many generations.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

No that would not be correct. Of the original 700,000 Refugees, there are only about and estimated (probably much less) 70,000 still living. The rest or refugees that never lived in Israel.

The reason that the refugees have increased so much is that the world has been dragging its feet on implementing return for many generations.

(COMMENT)

As is usual, the Arab Palestinians participate in the civil war from 1946 to 1948, and the engage in the was of independence. The are military unsuccessful and political unable to achieve through diplomacy their objective and thus use force and the aid of the external influence brought by the Arab League.

Now they complain that the "world has been dragging its feet" on implementing the "right of return." (Unable to accept the consequences for their actions.)

Help me out here. I'm confused. Where is the Law of binding resolution of treaty?

• Just what do you cite as an authority for the "right of return" which is binding?
• Where is there a "binding" law that included descendants?
• What criteria is cited for the applicability of the law?

• Does it say "refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours?"
• Or does it include the Arabs of Palestine that cannot recognize the Balfour Declaration, the Mandate of Palestine or any situation arising?
• Does it include The Arabs of Palestine which made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God, and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition?
​

Some day the Arab Palestinians will have to face-up to the mistakes they have made and quit whining to the world that they did not get this or that. Either they can stand-up (Article 22 Style) or the can't. At some point even the Arab League will tire of the parasitic demeanor the Palestinians have.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[montelatici]

The 70,000 that are still living never lived in Israel either. But, the offspring of the males and their descendants who lived in Palestine when the Hostile Jewish European Colonists (HJEC) committed the crime of ethnic cleansing and genocide, have the right to return to the land and homes that were stolen from their ancestors.

 

[Hollie]

The 70,000 that are still living never lived in Israel either. But, the offspring of the males and their descendants who lived in Palestine when the Hostile Jewish European Colonists (HJEC) committed the crime of ethnic cleansing and genocide, have the right to return to the land and homes that were stolen from their ancestors.

You're getting typically hysterical. What genocide ™ was committed? Were the events of that genocide ™ reported only in some cut and paste wiki article you found?

What ethnic cleansing ™ was performed? Can you cut and paste something from wiki that identifies the event?

It seems these "histerical" (as opposed to historical events) occurred only in some alternate islamo-reality you inhabit.