Who is the most underrated NBA player in history? My 2 submissions.

[Mr. Friscus]

Not when it counted. See, this is why they make their names in the playoffs. I don't give a fuck about regular season stats. I base my decision on playoffs. And Jordan was 6 for 6 perfect in the finals. You know how sometimes when you're being judged you get style points? Jordan gets those.

View attachment 946265

Show me Lebron's shot that is etched in your mind.

There's a ton

Playoff Buzzer Beaters:









He scored the final 25 Cavs points to put them past the Pistons

LeBron James Scores Cavs LAST 25 POINTS In Game 5 of ECF | Full Highlights May 31, 2007

Let's take a look back to arguably LeBron's greatest playoff performance ever, as he went on to score his team's last 25 points in the 4th quarter and 2 over...

www.youtube.com

And of course, his game 7 block in the final minute that won the series



There's plenty more, but absolutely iconic

 

[sealybobo]

There's a ton

Playoff Buzzer Beaters:









He scored the final 25 Cavs points to put them past the Pistons

LeBron James Scores Cavs LAST 25 POINTS In Game 5 of ECF | Full Highlights May 31, 2007

Let's take a look back to arguably LeBron's greatest playoff performance ever, as he went on to score his team's last 25 points in the 4th quarter and 2 over...

www.youtube.com

And of course, his game 7 block in the final minute that won the series



There's plenty more, but absolutely iconic

Jordan has more scoring titles.
He played in a more defensive era
Better defender
Efficiency
Better leader on the court
Jordan's one on one ability

Lebron never had to defeat 3 teams with 50 wins or 2 teams with 60 wins in a playoff run. Jordan did.

Jordan only had 1 all star team mate in his career

Lebron has had more hof teammates. Or future HOFers

OMG, you guys laughed when I brought up Jordan's college career. They bring it up

Happy Birthday, MJ! 23 Reasons Why Michael Jordan is Better Than Lebron - 365Scores

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Jordan was more clutch

Playoff game winners/ties with 24 seconds left. Jordan 4/8 Lebron 8 of 23 only 35%

Here is the BIG fucking difference. Why in my mind, Jordan is the GOAT!!!

Finals Game Winners/Tiers with 25 seconds left. Jordan 4 of 8. Lebron 0 for fucking 6

That's why. Must me. Why I think Jordan ruled. He wasn't a choke artist in the biggest games.

 

[sealybobo]

Jordan played 82 games in 9 out of his 15 seasons. Lebron only played 82 once.

Lebron never had to defeat 3 teams with 50 wins or 2 teams with 60 wins in a playoff run. Jordan did. 5 of his 6 championships.

Jordan 5 MVP's Lebron 4

Winning a college national championship yes does count for something. Ask Grant Hill.

 

[Couchpotato]

Jordan has more scoring titles.

And never had any assists or rebounds......

He played in a more defensive era
Better defender

This is a myth.

Efficiency

Jordan was not more efficient than LeBron.

LeBron James vs. Michael Jordan: Head-to-Head Stats Comparison | Stathead.com

Compare Players: Check out the head-to-head stats of LeBron James and Michael Jordan including their awards, honors, championships, playoff and regular season stats, and much more on Stathead.com

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Better leader on the court

Because you say so? LeBron is a far better "field general" than Jordan. It's why he's a better passer and has more assists than Jordan.

Jordan's one on one ability

It's a team game. Part of it is making everyone better.

Lebron never had to defeat 3 teams with 50 wins or 2 teams with 60 wins in a playoff run. Jordan did.

Jordan never had to beat the team with the best record in basketball, LeBron did... See how stupid that is?

Jordan only had 1 all star team mate in his career.

The All Star game is a popularity contest not a referendum on who the best players in the league are.

Lebron has had more hof teammates. Or future HOFers

But Jordan just played with the same ones his whole career. Pippen, Kukoc, Rodman.

LeBron has played with more but, Westbrook, Shaq, Wallace, Anthony, Rose were washed by the time he played with them. And LeBron has played with 3 different sets. Wade, Bosch, Allen. Irving, Love. Davis.

It's also a very different era as far as free agency goes. They weren't building super teams through FA when Jordan played. The biggest reason LeBron doesnt have more titles is Golden State has had 3-4 HOFer's on it's roster he had to contend with. Before that SA had 3 and then 4.

OMG, you guys laughed when I brought up Jordan's college career. They bring it up

Happy Birthday, MJ! 23 Reasons Why Michael Jordan is Better Than Lebron - 365Scores

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www.365scores.com

Psst. They are stupid for bring up his college career for the same reason you were.

Jordan was more clutch.

Because you said?

Playoff game winners/ties with 24 seconds left. Jordan 4/8 Lebron 8 of 23 only 35%

This is a completely made up stat. 24 secs left? Why? Because that time frame make Jordan look better than LeBron. That's it. LeBron has 5 PO buzzer beaters. MJ has 3. LeBron has 10% of all the PO buzzer beaters in NBA history.

Here is the BIG fucking difference. Why in my mind, Jordan is the GOAT!!!

Finals Game Winners/Tiers with 25 seconds left. Jordan 4 of 8. Lebron 0 for fucking 6

Again with the random time period? Why is it expanded an additional second in this stat over the last one? Is it a "game winner" if you score with 25 seconds left on the clock? There's a possible 3-4 possessions after that.

That's why. Must me. Why I think Jordan ruled. He wasn't a choke artist in the biggest games.

 

[sealybobo]

And never had any assists or rebounds......

This is a myth.

Jordan was not more efficient than LeBron.

LeBron James vs. Michael Jordan: Head-to-Head Stats Comparison | Stathead.com

Compare Players: Check out the head-to-head stats of LeBron James and Michael Jordan including their awards, honors, championships, playoff and regular season stats, and much more on Stathead.com

stathead.com

Because you say so? LeBron is a far better "field general" than Jordan. It's why he's a better passer and has more assists than Jordan.

It's a team game. Part of it is making everyone better.

Jordan never had to beat the team with the best record in basketball, LeBron did... See how stupid that is?

The All Star game is a popularity contest not a referendum on who the best players in the league are.

But Jordan just played with the same ones his whole career. Pippen, Kukoc, Rodman.

LeBron has played with more but, Westbrook, Shaq, Wallace, Anthony, Rose were washed by the time he played with them. And LeBron has played with 3 different sets. Wade, Bosch, Allen. Irving, Love. Davis.

It's also a very different era as far as free agency goes. They weren't building super teams through FA when Jordan played. The biggest reason LeBron doesnt have more titles is Golden State has had 3-4 HOFer's on it's roster he had to contend with. Before that SA had 3 and then 4.



Psst. They are stupid for bring up his college career for the same reason you were.

Because you said?


This is a completely made up stat. 24 secs left? Why? Because that time frame make Jordan look better than LeBron. That's it. LeBron has 5 PO buzzer beaters. MJ has 3. LeBron has 10% of all the PO buzzer beaters in NBA history.

Again with the random time period? Why is it expanded an additional second in this stat over the last one? Is it a "game winner" if you score with 25 seconds left on the clock? There's a possible 3-4 possessions after that.

You're crazy if you don't think it was a more defensive era. My Piston's kept teams to under 100 all the time. Under 90.

Yes, Jordan had to go through a lot of great teams.

Lebron's super team in Miami only won how many? 2? TWO? Because someone was fucking Bosh's wife.

Only Pippen played on all 6 championships with Jordan if I'm not mistaken. If anything Pippen is the most under rated. One of.

Because you said so?

 

[jack3]

Jordan never had to beat the team with the best record in basketball, LeBron did... See how stupid that is?

Maybe because the Bulls had the best record. Is that Jordan's fault?

 

[sealybobo]

And never had any assists or rebounds......

This is a myth.

Jordan was not more efficient than LeBron.

LeBron James vs. Michael Jordan: Head-to-Head Stats Comparison | Stathead.com

Compare Players: Check out the head-to-head stats of LeBron James and Michael Jordan including their awards, honors, championships, playoff and regular season stats, and much more on Stathead.com

stathead.com

Because you say so? LeBron is a far better "field general" than Jordan. It's why he's a better passer and has more assists than Jordan.

It's a team game. Part of it is making everyone better.

Jordan never had to beat the team with the best record in basketball, LeBron did... See how stupid that is?

The All Star game is a popularity contest not a referendum on who the best players in the league are.

But Jordan just played with the same ones his whole career. Pippen, Kukoc, Rodman.

LeBron has played with more but, Westbrook, Shaq, Wallace, Anthony, Rose were washed by the time he played with them. And LeBron has played with 3 different sets. Wade, Bosch, Allen. Irving, Love. Davis.

It's also a very different era as far as free agency goes. They weren't building super teams through FA when Jordan played. The biggest reason LeBron doesnt have more titles is Golden State has had 3-4 HOFer's on it's roster he had to contend with. Before that SA had 3 and then 4.



Psst. They are stupid for bring up his college career for the same reason you were.

Because you said?


This is a completely made up stat. 24 secs left? Why? Because that time frame make Jordan look better than LeBron. That's it. LeBron has 5 PO buzzer beaters. MJ has 3. LeBron has 10% of all the PO buzzer beaters in NBA history.

Again with the random time period? Why is it expanded an additional second in this stat over the last one? Is it a "game winner" if you score with 25 seconds left on the clock? There's a possible 3-4 possessions after that.

You mean the year Draymond Green got kicked out of games 5 and 6? He got lucky. And some say the bubble championship sort of doesn't even count. I don't remember it.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

You mean the year Draymond Green got kicked out of games 5 and 6?

He only was suspended for game 5, try getting your facts straight before you spout off. And maybe he shouldn’t have gotten so many flagarent fouls if he didn’t want to get suspended

He got lucky.

Yes, his 30pts, 11 boards, 9 assts average in the 7 frame series was all luck

And some say the bubble championship sort of doesn't even count.

“Some say”? Wow, what a convincing argument

I don't remember it.

It doesn’t really matter what you remember

 

[sealybobo]

He only was suspended for game 5, try getting your facts straight before you spout off. And maybe he shouldn’t have gotten so many flagarent fouls if he didn’t want to get suspended

Yes, his 30pts, 11 boards, 9 assts average in the 7 frame series was all luck

“Some say”? Wow, what a convincing argument

It doesn’t really matter what you remember

It all comes down to this. Because I say so, I'm telling you Jordan would have made Lebron his bitch just like he did everybody else. Those years. That guy, would have been Lebron every year. No question about it. Lebron would have won 2 championships like the Rockets, Spurs and Lakers did. When Jordan's DYNASTY broke up or took a break.

Maybe that's it. Jordan's Dynasty would have beat Lebron's...oh wait, no dynasty.

Lebron failed the Lakers if you ask me. Only 2 in south beach.

 

[sealybobo]

BULLS
BULLS
BULLS
rockets when jordan takes a break because his father got murdered
rockets when Jordan takes a break to try baseball
BULLS
BULLS
BULLS

Now that was a dynasty. Haven't seen anything close since. Spurs or Golden State pretty good but not Jordan.

 

[sealybobo]

I would take Tim Duncan over Lebron. There I said it. LOL

 

[CrazyTrader55]

In no particular order

1. Moses Malone
3 time NBA MVP
13 Time All star
4 time all NBA first team
6 time rebounding leader
1 NBA championship
1 NBA Finals MVP
11th all time scoring leader
Top Scoring Averages: 31.1, 27.8, 25.8, 24.8
Top Rebounding Averages: 15.3, 14.8, 14.7, 14.5
Career Playoff Average: 22.1ppg, 13.8rpg


2. Elgin Baylor
All NBA First team 10 times
Rookie of the year in 1958-59
11 time all star
Finished 2nd in MVP one year, 3rd in MVP 3 times

This guy doesn't have the "leads the league" stats (he played in the era of Wilt), but is a total beast. Look at his first 5 years in the league
1958-59: 24.9 ppg, 15 rpg, 4.3 apg
1959-60: 29.6 ppg, 16.4 rpg, 3.5 apg
1960-61: 34.8 ppg, 19.8 rpg, 5.1 apg
1961-62: 38.3 ppg, 18.6 rpg, 4.6 apg
1962-63: 34.0 ppg, 14.3 rpg, 4.6 apg

Throughout the 60's afterwards he had points per game scores of: 25.4, 27.1, 16.6, 26.6, 26.0, 24.8, and 24.0
Rebounds of: 12.0, 12.8, 9.6, 12.8, 12.2, 10.6, 10.4

LOL NO. Both of these guys are high up on the list of all time great players.

Underrated: World B. Free, Purvis Short, Lou Williams, Dale Ellis, Tom Chambers

 

[Mr. Friscus]

I would take Tim Duncan over Lebron. There I said it. LOL

Last posts are lame attempts at trolling lol

Let me return the favor

Jordan wasn’t able to lead a team to greatness, he needed the GOAT coach Phil Jackson, Pippen, and guys like Grant/Rodman to do his dirty work so he could jack up shots and by rate shoot the most shots in NBA history.. which causes lots of points.

The Bulls won 57 games after Jordan left in 93-94. They were already elite, it wasn’t him. He was an elite closer and scorer, but he didn’t account for tons of wins like a Duncan, Lebron, or Bird did

 

[sealybobo]

Last posts are lame attempts at trolling lol

Based on what I've been saying and what most NBA players past and present think, Lebron is the most underrated nba player in history. Because we all think Jordan would destroy him. Based on what we saw Jordan do when it mattered most compared to what Lebron did.

The teams Lebron beat weren't all that great. The best team Lebron faced in the finals was the Golden State Warriors when they had Durant. Durant was the MVP in both finals. They beat Cleveland 4 and 1 one year and the next year swept Cleveland. So Lebron ruled the weak east and got embarrassed in the finals. Jordan never left a bad taste in my mouth like this.

So you give Lebron credit for those two finals appearances but I give Jordan credit for winning a national championship in college. Very few

In 2020, there had been only 46 athletes who won titles both as NCAA basketball players and as professionals in the NBA.

That list includes the likes of Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Bill Russell and Michael Jordan, who all dominated both in the NCAA and in the NBA as professionals.

 

[CrazyTrader55]

Last posts are lame attempts at trolling lol

Let me return the favor

Jordan wasn’t able to lead a team to greatness, he needed the GOAT coach Phil Jackson, Pippen, and guys like Grant/Rodman to do his dirty work so he could jack up shots and by rate shoot the most shots in NBA history.. which causes lots of points.

The Bulls won 57 games after Jordan left in 93-94. They were already elite, it wasn’t him. He was an elite closer and scorer, but he didn’t account for tons of wins like a Duncan, Lebron, or Bird did

No, my post wasn't "trolling". "underrated" players are not Hall Of Fame players. Underrated players are really good players that have been forgotten about over the passage of time. All 5 of those guys I gave, fit the criteria.

Lebron does not. Neither does Moses Malone or Elgin Baylor. This isn't a thread about Bird, or Magic, or Jordan, Or Lebron.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Based on what I've been saying and what most NBA players past and present think, Lebron is the most underrated nba player in history.

That’s completely ridiculous

Because we all think Jordan would destroy him.

No. Some, but certainly not all

The teams Lebron beat weren't all that great.

He beat better teams than Jordan in the finals.

The warriors and spurs are far better than anything the Bulls beat. I already explained this, and you ignored it, and are circling back around to your recited talking point

The best team Lebron faced in the finals was the Golden State Warriors when they had Durant. Durant was the MVP in both finals. They beat Cleveland 4 and 1 one year and the next year swept Cleveland. So Lebron ruled the weak east and got embarrassed in the finals. Jordan never left a bad taste in my mouth like this.

So you give Lebron credit for those two finals appearances but I give Jordan credit for winning a national championship in college.

College is college, and finals appearances (Lebron) mean more than first round or second round losses (early Jordan)

That list includes the likes of Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Bill Russell and Michael Jordan, who all dominated both in the NCAA and in the NBA as professionals.

Lebron didn’t play in college. He was so good he immediately became a force in the NBA on a team full of starting players that hated him such as Ricky Davis and Darius Miles.

 

[jack3]

Jordan wasn’t able to lead a team to greatness, he needed the GOAT coach Phil Jackson, Pippen, and guys like Grant/Rodman to do his dirty work so he could jack up shots and by rate shoot the most shots in NBA history.. which causes lots of points.

Meh, designated thugs are par for the course. You don't want your star players getting technicals and throwing punches.

 

[jack3]

BULLS
BULLS
BULLS
rockets when jordan takes a break because his father got murdered
rockets when Jordan takes a break to try baseball
BULLS
BULLS
BULLS

Now that was a dynasty. Haven't seen anything close since. Spurs or Golden State pretty good but not Jordan.

I think the word dynasty is overused. Really only four dynasties I know of in the four major sports. And if you define the word in the context of Chinese dynasties, then there are none.

 

[sealybobo]

That’s completely ridiculous

No. Some, but certainly not all

He beat better teams than Jordan in the finals.

The warriors and spurs are far better than anything the Bulls beat. I already explained this, and you ignored it, and are circling back around to your recited talking point

College is college, and finals appearances (Lebron) mean more than first round or second round losses (early Jordan)

Lebron didn’t play in college. He was so good he immediately became a force in the NBA on a team full of starting players that hated him such as Ricky Davis and Darius Miles.

You remember Jordan a lot differently than me and all the NBA players who agree with me.

A lot of those guys played with both or have seen what you and I have seen. Do you understand that if I wasn't right, then Lebron would be the clear cut GOAT and that's certainly not the case. I think most people think Jordan is. And so that's who is the goat. I'm sure as time goes on and older people who die and younger people who never saw Jordan get older, Lebron will eventually take the title. But guess what? It's not deserving. He is not anywhere close to Jordan. He may not even be as good as Kobe. But I'll give you Kobe. He did enough to surpass Kobe. But he will never pass Jordan.

On another note, I wonder how many more Mahomes needs to win before they start saying he's the GOAT QB?

 

[Failzero]

Bob MacAdoo