About that debt ceiling. . .

[JackOfNoTrades]

Only because a Democrat controlled Senate and House the last two years of his first term refused to allow him ANY necessary funding for anything unless they added whatever they wanted to the spending bills, And you can't count 2020 when the economy was essentially shut down. Massive amounts of money went out to keep people from starving and to meet the essential needs of the pandemic with little coming into the treasury. And even then Pelosi's philosophy of not letting a crisis go to waste unethically added massive amounts of pork in the pandemic funding.

It was not the tax reforms as those increased revenues into the treasury because more people were working and those working were making a lot more money

Republicans controlled the Senate in Trump's last two years. Trump jacked the deficit almost 3T BEFORE Covid. And the reasons for the steep drop into the abyss in early 2020 were because your savior was too busy ignoring the pandemic and allowing it to wreak havoc...thus necessitating the need to keep people from "starving". Due to his own lack of action and incompetence.

You see what you want to see. You believe what your alt-right media masters tell you to believe.
But you can't even get basic facts correct.

 

[Rigby5]

Why don't you be honest and say that it was wiped out by 9/11? In 2001, the Senate went Democrat.

Except that while 9/11 was tragic, it cost nothing.
The $7 trillion Bush added to the national debt was to invade innocent countries, like Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.
It was totally unnecessary, as those countries had nothing at all to do with 9/11 and Bush rejected the offer by the Taliban to extradite bin Laden to Saudi Arabia.

 

[Rigby5]

I only mentioned others that have raised debt ceiling and provided link to raises back through Ronald Reagan. This isn't like some brand new occurrence. Getting rid of the debt ceiling is a new one, for Musk and Trump. I am against it, while you must be for it. Sounds like political motivation, rather than conservative economics, to me.

We should never allow and national debt at all, since that is essentially stealing from future generations that have to pay it off.
Raising the debt limit seems criminal?

 

[Foxfyre]

There is a very small chance a debt amendment would get added, but only if the states rose up to amend the Constitution themselves, something that has never been done before.

Congress simply is not going to restrict their power like that by restricting their spending.

It is like asking your stay-at-home wife who does nothing to help pay the bills stop using your credit card when she goes shopping

Yea, that's not going to happen without a nasty divorce.

A good wife, even a stay at home wife, manages the family budget with care and inteligance and can be trusted with that credit card. She is most likely diligent in paying it in full every month before interest accrues.

A true public servant will make it his/her sacred duty to use the people's money carefully, responsibly, effectively and make sure the people are getting value for every penny as much as possible.

We have had mostly professional politicians instead of public servants in both parties in Congress for quite some time now. We do have true public servants in the White House beginning January 20, 2025. We the people should demand of our elected representatives that they help them serve as much as possible.

 

[Rigby5]

This demand to raise the debt ceiling seems contradictory.
If we are going to increase tax revenue by stimulating the economy, and spend less by cutting federal waste, then there should be no reason at all to raise the debt ceiling.

Paying off the national debt should be our highest priority, and the Ukraine and Israel should not have been given those hundreds of billions.

 

[TimFitz]

I think giving Trump, DOGE and the other reformers in his administration and Congress a chance to do things differently, to make things better, to shake up a destructive status quo, might change the perspective of a lot of Americans.

We very often don't know what we want until somebody shows us something better.

One truth of life drilled into me in management school: You can't change a bad system by changing the people. And you can't change bad people by changing the system.

So I have great hope that we will have better people running the show to develop a better system that works better for us all.

It would be if he actually intended to do any such thing.

Right now, he started a race to a government shutdown by demanding that the debt ceiling be repealed altogether. So he could borrow and spend without consequence.

He didn’t want a single cut. he didn’t care. Neither did Musk.

Instead he may wind up with nothing to show for it other than the responsibility for almost shutting down the government. (Yet again).

If you think anyone that dumb is actually capable of changing the status quo for the better, you’re going to be very disappointed.

 

[Rigby5]

The entire US currency is at risk if we do not pay down the national debt.
The last thing we should be doing is raising the debt ceiling.

 

[Foxfyre]

It would be if he actually intended to do any such thing.

Right now, he started a race to a government shutdown by demanding that the debt ceiling be repealed altogether. So he could borrow and spend without consequence.

He didn’t want a single cut. he didn’t care. Neither did Musk.

Instead he may wind up with nothing to show for it other than the responsibility for almost shutting down the government. (Yet again).

If you think anyone that dumb is actually capable of changing the status quo for the better, you’re going to be very disappointed.

Read the OP. Read the OP. Read the OP.

 

[TimFitz]

Trumps last tax cuts in his first term had money pouring into the U.S. treasury as well as increased the wealth and buying power of all American demographics. It is the prosperity of the private sector that is the goal, not increasing what government takes that is the goal.

So there are two dynamics at work.
1) Constructive economic policy that helps all Americans with greater liberty, choices, options, opportunity, prosperity
2) Decreasing the people's resources that are taken by government for wasteful, ineffective, inefficient, unnecessary, corrupt spending

As related to this thread the goal is not increasing the amount government has to waste/misspend but rather severely limit government's inclination and ability to waste/misspend the people's money

Trump’s giveaway to Wall Street did not have significant additional money pouring in.

But it pales to Trump and the GOP’s borrow and spend.

Which is precisely what he intends to do now.

 

[Oddball]

President Trump and his DOGE co-leaders of Musk and Ramaswamy the GOP Freedom Caucus are committed to eliminate as much as $2 trillion of waste, inefficiency, stupidity, duplication, corruption etc. from the federal budget and do that without cutting essential/necessary services. That won't happen on Day 1 or likely by day 300 as it will require a great deal of research, investigation, and consideration to get it done. But they are committed to do it.

Maybe they won't make the goal. But ANYTHING they can do to rein in an unfathomable, unmanageable monstrosity of federal government and turn it back into an entity that serve the people instead of demanding more and more resources to feed itself will help a great deal.

Does it really make the average American's life better for the federal government to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in a grant for somebody to study whether pigeons follow the same economic principles as people? Millions for transgender studies is Pakistan?

$518,000 to study how cocaine affects the sexual behavior of Japanese quails?
$3 million to study how various substances affect hamster fights?
$1.7 billion to maintain unused and underused federal buildings?
$1 million to print a paper copy of the Federal Register furnished daily to members of Congress every one of which could read it on line?
Over $600,000 to Stanford University to digitize its collection of tickets, photos, T-shirts, and other memorabilia donated by the band, scholars, and fans?
Almost $900,000 spent by the IRS for unused warehouse space?
$500,000 to build an IHOPs in Washington DC to provide jobs for people there.
$2.5 million for the US Census Bureau to run a Super Bowl ad?
$6 million to The National Comedy Center in Jamestown NY?

These are the kinds of 'small potatoes' things that gets tucked into other appropriations bills including the CR bill they are now trying to get passed. That is on top of the many billions of unrelated pork that Congress forces into all legislation these days.

So we have a debt ceiling. And every three to six months we hit that debt ceiling, have this huge fight in Congress that usually results in some kind of compromise but invariably includes billions and billions of unnecessary, unneeded things that have nothing to do with keeping the government going.

And the debt ceiling is ALWAYS raised!!! The debt is real but the debt ceiling is essentially an artificial thing that means nothing.

So is President Trump that much out of line by saying eliminate the debt ceiling entirely to avoid these CR fights in Congress that invariably include additional billions in pork? All he asked is for is to do away with the essentially worthless debt ceiling and thereby eliminate the opportunity for unscrupulous congress persons to stick all that non essential spending into those CR bills that have become necessary every few months.

His request in no way does away with his intention to try to cut $2 trillion of unnecessary and/or inefficient and/or ineffective and/or wasteful and sometimes corrupt spending from the federal budget.

11 Bizarre Things the U.S. Government Actually Spent Money On

Did you know the government wasted $28 million on a bad wardrobe choice? You'll be blown away by these bizarre uses for government money.

www.rd.com

Balance the budget and no debt ceiling needs to be raised.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Balance the budget and no debt ceiling needs to be raised.

The thing is that you really can't. It's too far gone. This country's very monetary policy is, by design, fully dependent upon ever-increasing debt.

Every single thing I've read on here about...''balancing the budget'' would be deflationary.

We're Keynesians now.

But it is finite. It will end by default. So let it. Because you're not gonna stop it. The mnetary system is literally designed to fail in this specific way.

 

[Oddball]

The thing is that you really can't. It's too far gone. This country's very monetary policy is, by design, fully dependent upon ever-increasing debt.

Every single thing I've read on here about...''balancing the budget'' would be deflationary.

We're Keynesians now.

But it is finite. It will end by default. So let it...

"Deflationary" as though that would be a bad thing.

 

[Natural Citizen]

"Deflationary" as though that would be a bad thing.

It would be a great thing if we were actually free market capitalists with a sound monetary system/policy.

But we're not.

We're Keynesians now.

That system, by default and by design, requires ever-increasing debt. Without it the currency supply would disappear because all they're doing is monetizing debt.

So I say deflationary in context with the actual system that we have rather than the pipe dreams which so many in the electorate naively seem to think that we have.

That's one of the biggest obstacles. Generally speaking, not many in the electorate really understand what kinds of actual policies we have in literal terms as well as in effect.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

You claim to be an academic

Yet you believe that Scientific Research Grants get funded by saying……..I want to study the sexual practices of Japanese Quails under the influence of Cocaine

Sure…..here is $518,000

Yes, they do. It's called a grant. Congressmen slip in earmarks for their favorite college's professor. Nobody outside that Congressman's district wants to spend that money, but the other Congressman look the other way when their pet project comes up for a vote because they can count on the other Congresscritters covering their ass and voting yes,

 

[Nobody911]

Then why did Trump lobby to remove the debt ceiling earlier this week?
Every single item on your list is indeed a "small potato". Won't make a blip. They are political, just and righteous wedges for the lemmings who think its time to rip the safety nets away from the vulnerable while preserving the pork for the wealthy.
There are five areas in the budget that make up the lion share of the deficit/debt. And I don't see any of those on your list.

Trump's recent lobbying to eliminate the debt ceiling stems from strategic motivations as he prepares for his second term. He aims to shift the responsibility of any potential debt ceiling increase onto President Biden, thereby avoiding early conflicts in his administration. By advocating for its removal, Trump seeks to facilitate his agenda, including proposed tax cuts that would require increased borrowing[1][4][6]. This approach also aligns with a broader Republican strategy to avoid being held accountable for future fiscal disputes, particularly as the debt ceiling is expected to be reached soon after he takes office[2][5][10].

sources:
[1] What is the debt ceiling? Inside Trump's unprecedented demand to eliminate it
[2] Trump shakes up spending talks with call on Congress to eliminate debt ceiling
[3] What is the debt ceiling? Here's why Trump wants Congress to abolish it before he takes office
[4] Why Trump is pushing hard to defuse the debt ceiling now and what it would mean for America
[5] Trump intervened to sink US debt ceiling bill. What happens next?
[6] What the hell is going on in Congress, explained
[7] https://www.npr.org/2024/12/19/nx-s1-5234083/congress-shutdown-trump-musk

Failing to raise the debt ceiling poses significant risks, including:

• Economic Chaos: Defaulting on government obligations could lead to severe economic turmoil, comparable to the 2008 crisis, with estimates of over 7 million job losses and a 20% drop in stock prices[1][6].
• Increased Borrowing Costs: A default would likely result in a downgrade of the U.S. credit rating, raising interest rates for future borrowing and increasing costs for consumers and businesses[3][4].
• Disruption of Government Services: Essential services, including Social Security payments and military salaries, could be delayed or halted, affecting millions[1][2].
• Market Panic: Investor confidence would plummet, potentially triggering a financial crisis and significant market instability[2][5].

sources:
[1] What is the debt ceiling, and is Trump right that a default 'could mean nothing'?
[2] How the Lack of Action on the Debt Ceiling Can Hurt the Economy
[3] What Happens When the U.S. Hits Its Debt Ceiling?
[4] The Impending Debt Ceiling Crisis: Consequences, Risks, & Political Gamesmanship | Consilio Wealth Advisors
[5] The Potential Economic Impacts of Various Debt Ceiling Scenarios | CEA | The White House
[6] What is the debt ceiling, and is Trump right that a default 'could mean nothing'?
[7] https://www.usnews.com/news/slideshows/6-consequences-if-the-debt-ceiling-isnt-raised
[8]
[8] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...eiling-trump-government-shutdown/77085967007/
[9] https://thehill.com/business/5049287-trump-debt-ceiling-shutdown/
[10] https://www.latimes.com/world-natio...-debt-ceiling-budget-deal-government-shutdown

 

[JackOfNoTrades]

Trump's recent lobbying to eliminate the debt ceiling stems from strategic motivations as he prepares for his second term. He aims to shift the responsibility of any potential debt ceiling increase onto President Biden, thereby avoiding early conflicts in his administration. By advocating for its removal, Trump seeks to facilitate his agenda, including proposed tax cuts that would require increased borrowing[1][4][6]. This approach also aligns with a broader Republican strategy to avoid being held accountable for future fiscal disputes, particularly as the debt ceiling is expected to be reached soon after he takes office[2][5][10].

sources:
[1] What is the debt ceiling? Inside Trump's unprecedented demand to eliminate it
[2] Trump shakes up spending talks with call on Congress to eliminate debt ceiling
[3] What is the debt ceiling? Here's why Trump wants Congress to abolish it before he takes office
[4] Why Trump is pushing hard to defuse the debt ceiling now and what it would mean for America
[5] Trump intervened to sink US debt ceiling bill. What happens next?
[6] What the hell is going on in Congress, explained
[7] https://www.npr.org/2024/12/19/nx-s1-5234083/congress-shutdown-trump-musk

Failing to raise the debt ceiling poses significant risks, including:

• Economic Chaos: Defaulting on government obligations could lead to severe economic turmoil, comparable to the 2008 crisis, with estimates of over 7 million job losses and a 20% drop in stock prices[1][6].
• Increased Borrowing Costs: A default would likely result in a downgrade of the U.S. credit rating, raising interest rates for future borrowing and increasing costs for consumers and businesses[3][4].
• Disruption of Government Services: Essential services, including Social Security payments and military salaries, could be delayed or halted, affecting millions[1][2].
• Market Panic: Investor confidence would plummet, potentially triggering a financial crisis and significant market instability[2][5].

sources:
[1] What is the debt ceiling, and is Trump right that a default 'could mean nothing'?
[2] How the Lack of Action on the Debt Ceiling Can Hurt the Economy
[3] What Happens When the U.S. Hits Its Debt Ceiling?
[4] The Impending Debt Ceiling Crisis: Consequences, Risks, & Political Gamesmanship | Consilio Wealth Advisors
[5] The Potential Economic Impacts of Various Debt Ceiling Scenarios | CEA | The White House
[6] What is the debt ceiling, and is Trump right that a default 'could mean nothing'?
[7] https://www.usnews.com/news/slideshows/6-consequences-if-the-debt-ceiling-isnt-raised
[8]
[8] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...eiling-trump-government-shutdown/77085967007/
[9] https://thehill.com/business/5049287-trump-debt-ceiling-shutdown/
[10] https://www.latimes.com/world-natio...-debt-ceiling-budget-deal-government-shutdown

He wants to be able to SPEND. Because he knows it's the only way he will be able to fulfill a QUARTER of the campaign promises he's made.

 

[Foxfyre]

Balance the budget and no debt ceiling needs to be raised.

Depends on how the budget is balanced. If it is a huge unwieldly wasteful budget and it is balanced by confiscating more and more of what the people earn or have, it could be a very bad thing.

How about cutting out the waste, inefficiency ineffectiveness, unnecessary, corruption and I'm pretty sure the budget would pretty much balance itself.

 

[JackOfNoTrades]

Depends on how the budget is balanced. If it is a huge unwieldly wasteful budget and it is balanced by confiscating more and more of what the people earn or have, it could be a very bad thing.

How about cutting out the waste, inefficiency ineffectiveness, unnecessary, corruption and I'm pretty sure the budget would pretty much balance itself.

What are the top 5 expenditures in the budget?
The items that would make the biggest dent in the deficit/debt?

 

[rightwinger]

Yes, they do. It's called a grant. Congressmen slip in earmarks for their favorite college's professor. Nobody outside that Congressman's district wants to spend that money, but the other Congressman look the other way when their pet project comes up for a vote because they can count on the other Congresscritters covering their ass and voting yes,

Did you read the actual proposal?

 

[kyzr]

Only because a Democrat controlled Senate and House the last two years of his first term refused to allow him ANY necessary funding for anything unless they added whatever they wanted to the spending bills, And you can't count 2020 when the economy was essentially shut down. Massive amounts of money went out to keep people from starving and to meet the essential needs of the pandemic with little coming into the treasury. And even then Pelosi's philosophy of not letting a crisis go to waste unethically added massive amounts of pork in the pandemic funding. It was not the tax reforms that increased the deficit as those increased revenues into the treasury because more people were working and those working were making a lot more money

The TAX CUTS got slightly more revenue, but the deficit increased, and the DEBT increased by $7T.
Tax cuts are NOT the answer when we have a $2T deficit.
We need spending cuts and more revenue.