Ambassadors protest at Israel's confiscation of West Bank shelters

[Boston1]

If an itinerant Arab Muslims in Israel, neighborhood wants to join on the Israeli water grid, they're going to have to pay their fair share. They are also going to have to prove through time that they have no intention of poisoning or otherwise sabotaging that water supply for other users

 

[P F Tinmore]

Why should the Palestinians need to get permits from foreign assholes to build in Palestine?

Um. For the same reason anyone needs to get permits for building? Because you can't just build anywhere you want with no respect for the law. Area C is under Israeli control. So, even if you disagree with this (and that would be REALLY hard to do under international law) -- you still can't go on ignoring the law.

you still can't go on ignoring the law.​

Interesting. What law is followed or enforced equally to all who want to build in area C.

What law determines the criteria to accept or reject an application for a building permit?

Thanks in advance.

Ignoring the law ?????? what law ????? EVERYTHING west of the Jordan is available to the state of Israel for building. Legally.

Link?

You've been shown a link a hundred times.

Read up on the division of the Mandate between Israel and Jordan. It clearly states that the ONLY area given to Jordan ( roughly 75% of the total land area of the Mandate ) is EAST of the Jordan. EVERYTHING else is open to Israeli development ;--)

EVERYTHING else is open to Israeli development​

Could you post something that says that?

 

[Boston1]

Already have ten times over, so have a lot of people. But you pretend it doesn't exist. Why is that ?

I don't suppose you ever actually read the Mandate for BRITISH palestine did you ?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Already have ten times over, so have a lot of people. But you pretend it doesn't exist. Why is that ?

I don't suppose you ever actually read the Mandate for BRITISH palestine did you ?

I have that is why I asked. It didn't say what you said.

 

[Boston1]

Then you need to try two things.

A reading and comprehension class

And reading it again.

The first error your making is thinking Israel "confiscated" anything. It was Israel's in the first place. The next error you made was thinking the itinerant Arab Muslims were indigenous to Israel, they are not. They are ARAB, IE from ARABIA. Although it might be said at least some were Syrians.

Then maybe we can move on to the distraction you presented when you got all off topic and started in with this nonsense about the area not having been designated as for the creation of a Jewish national homeland.

;--)

 

[Phoenall]

Why should the Palestinians need to get permits from foreign assholes to build in Palestine?

Um. For the same reason anyone needs to get permits for building? Because you can't just build anywhere you want with no respect for the law. Area C is under Israeli control. So, even if you disagree with this (and that would be REALLY hard to do under international law) -- you still can't go on ignoring the law.

you still can't go on ignoring the law.​

Interesting. What law is followed or enforced equally to all who want to build in area C.

What law determines the criteria to accept or reject an application for a building permit?

Thanks in advance.

Ignoring the law ?????? what law ????? EVERYTHING west of the Jordan is available to the state of Israel for building. Legally.

Link?

LoN mandate of palestine that sets out the borders for the proposed Jewish NATIONal home and trans jordan. So if one doesnt exist niether can the other ? ? ? ?

 

[Phoenall]

Why should the Palestinians need to get permits from foreign assholes to build in Palestine?

Um. For the same reason anyone needs to get permits for building? Because you can't just build anywhere you want with no respect for the law. Area C is under Israeli control. So, even if you disagree with this (and that would be REALLY hard to do under international law) -- you still can't go on ignoring the law.

you still can't go on ignoring the law.​

Interesting. What law is followed or enforced equally to all who want to build in area C.

What law determines the criteria to accept or reject an application for a building permit?

Thanks in advance.

The law that the Jews make as granted to them by the Palestinians in the Oslo accords.

The applicable under Jewish jurisprudence granted to them by the Palestinians in the Oslo accords

Don't mention it

Nice duck. That does not answer the questions.

Yes it does and the only one ducking the facts is you. Internaqtional law works for everyone, including the Jews and the only way to alter this one is to talk a lasting peace and mutual borders.

 

[Phoenall]

Already have ten times over, so have a lot of people. But you pretend it doesn't exist. Why is that ?

I don't suppose you ever actually read the Mandate for BRITISH palestine did you ?

I have that is why I asked. It didn't say what you said.

But the LoN mandate of Palestine does, and you deny that this exists even when given valid links to it. WHY IS THIS ?

 

[Phoenall]

LoN mandate of Palestine

 

[Phoenall]

LoN mandate of Palestine

 

[P F Tinmore]

Already have ten times over, so have a lot of people. But you pretend it doesn't exist. Why is that ?

I don't suppose you ever actually read the Mandate for BRITISH palestine did you ?

I have that is why I asked. It didn't say what you said.

But the LoN mandate of Palestine does, and you deny that this exists even when given valid links to it. WHY IS THIS ?

Quote the part that says that Palestinian land was given to the Jews?

 

[Phoenall]

Already have ten times over, so have a lot of people. But you pretend it doesn't exist. Why is that ?

I don't suppose you ever actually read the Mandate for BRITISH palestine did you ?

I have that is why I asked. It didn't say what you said.

But the LoN mandate of Palestine does, and you deny that this exists even when given valid links to it. WHY IS THIS ?

Quote the part that says that Palestinian land was given to the Jews?

Like this



Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory:



PALESTINE


INTRODUCTORY.


POSITION, ETC.
Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.

On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -

North. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.

East. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.

South. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.

West. – The Mediterranean Sea.





Are you now going to deny the actual words of the INTERNATIONAL LAW because you want to deny the Jews the same rights as the arab muslims ?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Already have ten times over, so have a lot of people. But you pretend it doesn't exist. Why is that ?

I don't suppose you ever actually read the Mandate for BRITISH palestine did you ?

I have that is why I asked. It didn't say what you said.

But the LoN mandate of Palestine does, and you deny that this exists even when given valid links to it. WHY IS THIS ?

Quote the part that says that Palestinian land was given to the Jews?

Like this



Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory:



PALESTINE


INTRODUCTORY.


POSITION, ETC.
Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.

On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -

North. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.

East. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.

South. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.

West. – The Mediterranean Sea.





Are you now going to deny the actual words of the INTERNATIONAL LAW because you want to deny the Jews the same rights as the arab muslims ?

OK, but the "Jewish National Home" was not a land transfer. It was for Jews to get Palestinian citizenship. And like all other Palestinians, they would be allowed to live anywhere in Palestine.

 

[Phoenall]

Already have ten times over, so have a lot of people. But you pretend it doesn't exist. Why is that ?

I don't suppose you ever actually read the Mandate for BRITISH palestine did you ?

I have that is why I asked. It didn't say what you said.

But the LoN mandate of Palestine does, and you deny that this exists even when given valid links to it. WHY IS THIS ?

Quote the part that says that Palestinian land was given to the Jews?

Like this



Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory:



PALESTINE


INTRODUCTORY.


POSITION, ETC.
Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.

On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -

North. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.

East. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.

South. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.

West. – The Mediterranean Sea.





Are you now going to deny the actual words of the INTERNATIONAL LAW because you want to deny the Jews the same rights as the arab muslims ?

OK, but the "Jewish National Home" was not a land transfer. It was for Jews to get Palestinian citizenship. And like all other Palestinians, they would be allowed to live anywhere in Palestine.

The LoN says it was as does INTERNATIONAL LAW. The same INTERNATIONAL LAW that transferred land to two Hashemite kings . You know the land I mean that had a thriving population of its own and was given to foriegn muslims.
Read the mandate again and it says that they werwe to be given mandatory palestinian citizenship prior to creating their NATIONal home. As the international law stated they could only live in the Jewish area, while the arab muslims were restricted to the arab area. This still stands to this day, so why are arab muslims allowed to breach international law and claim Israel as theirs ?

The LoN mandate is very clear on these facts and still you deny the Jews their religious, moral, legal and human rights. WHY IS THIS ?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, Phoenall,

Your logic is sound and valid to a point. But you do not carry it to a conclusion.

Already have ten times over, so have a lot of people. But you pretend it doesn't exist. Why is that ?
I don't suppose you ever actually read the Mandate for BRITISH palestine did you ?

I have that is why I asked. It didn't say what you said.

But the LoN mandate of Palestine does, and you deny that this exists even when given valid links to it. WHY IS THIS ?

Quote the part that says that Palestinian land was given to the Jews?

Like this
Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory:
Are you now going to deny the actual words of the INTERNATIONAL LAW because you want to deny the Jews the same rights as the arab muslims ?

OK, but the "Jewish National Home" was not a land transfer. It was for Jews to get Palestinian citizenship. And like all other Palestinians, they would be allowed to live anywhere in Palestine.

(COMMENT)

You keep saying that the "Right of Self-Determination" is inalienable. So even if your assumption that a Jewish National Home was a component of a (non-existent Article 22 Arab leadership) "Palestine" --- it would not preclude the Jewish National Home and its constituents from exercising the "Right of Self-Determination!"

But let their be no mistake. The Mandate Territories of the Middle East (all of them) were transferred to the Allied Powers all titles and rights to the entire area, in the Treaty of Lausanne (Article 16). All the Treaty of Lausanne afforded the Arabs is the assurance that they would not be "stateless." But the future of the territories were in the hands of the Allied Powers.

The issue of citizenship for the Jewish People traveling to the territory was never an issue. It was decided in the San Remo Agreement and then articulation in the Mandate, how that would be accomplished. The Order in Council (Given Authority by the Allied Powers) and the Mandate, were the vehicles by which issues and decisions were documented. The League Covenant was NOT a Barrier or Limitation to the authority of the Allied Powers.

(CONTEMPORARY VIEW)

As it turned-out, the three principle documents (not including the UN Charter) that gave legitimacy to the modern state of Israel today were:

• San Remo Resolution of April 25, 1920,
• Mandate for Palestine conferred on Britain by the Allied Powers and confirmed by the League of Nations on July 24, 1922,
• Franco-British Boundary Convention of December 23, 1920.
​

The territorial and habitual residents of the territory in question were not (repeat not) a signatory any of these decisive documents. At the time of the San Remo Agreement, the territory in question was was under the effective control of the Enemy Occupied Territory Administration as "Enemy Territory."

Whether we can look back nearly a century ago and determine if the word “home” (in the phrase Jewish National Home) (as used in the Balfour Declaration and subsequently in the San Remo Resolution) was simply a euphemism for "state" is irrelevant and overtaken by events.

Just as today, the Israelis cannot claim that it was an illegal abrogation of Jewish legal rights and title of sovereignty to the whole of Palestine and the Land of Israel, so it is similar that the Arabs had on claim to the legal rights and title of sovereignty to the whole of Palestine. It was an issue and political question for the Allied Powers to resolve (as holders of the title and rights to the territory).

It should be noted and understood that it was the "ALLIED POWERS" that designated the Council of the League of Nations as the supervisor of the Mandatory and not the other way around.

The authority for Israel declaring independence comes from two sources: Chapter 1 of the UN Charter and inherent right of all people to self-determination.

No matter the claim by the Arab Palestinian or the external Area League aggressors attempting to prevent the Israeli right to self-determination from becoming a reality, the Israeli right of self-determination was as strong as any claim against them. And the Israeli successfully defended that right.

The validity of that right was born out by the lack of performance in development by any of the Area League Aggressors that choose Jihad over Peace; and the lack of political stability by and of the immediate Arab Neighbors. Palestinians that base their existence of generation promotion of jihad, are not inherently peaceful people.

GLOSSARY OF TERMS:
DEFINITION OF PRINCIPAL TERMS IN INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS

1, State: a large social system with a set of rules that are enforced by a permanent administrative body (government). That body claims and tries to enforce sovereignty. That is, the state claims to be the
highest source of decision-making of the social system within its jurisdiction, and it rejects outside interference in making or enforcing its set of rules. The many smaller systems within the state are not
sovereign, nor are large international organizations like the United Nations, since states routinely reject their authority. The state is a political concept that refers to the exercise of power or the ability to make and enforce rules.

2. Sovereign: ultimate power to control people and events within the area of the state.

3. Nation: a group of individuals who feel that they have so much in common (interests, habits, ways of thinking, and the like) that they should all become a particular state. Unlike the term state, the term
nation refers to the subjective feelings of its people. By this definition almost all the present nations would like to become nation-states, but many nations are actually parts of other states, and many states are not nation-states. On the whole, nation-states can count on much greater loyalty from their citizens than states that contain many nations, and this gives them greater strength in their inter-national dealings. (As you can see, the term “international” should really be “interstate”).

4. Society: the population controlled by a state, or the population that forms a nation, or both. Some societies are territorially limited to a single geographical area and a single state while others are not.

5. Country: a well-defined geographical area. The term simply refers to a spatial concept. ​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Shusha]

OK, but the "Jewish National Home" was not a land transfer.

Even if its not -- still, according to your own "rules" -- the Jewish people have an inalienable human right to self-determination and sovereignty. That right -- according to your own "rules" -- is identical to that of the Arab "Palestinians".

 

[P F Tinmore]

OK, but the "Jewish National Home" was not a land transfer.

Even if its not -- still, according to your own "rules" -- the Jewish people have an inalienable human right to self-determination and sovereignty. That right -- according to your own "rules" -- is identical to that of the Arab "Palestinians".

There you go again using the term "the Jewish people." Which Jews are you talking about? The native Jews of Palestine, or the colonizing Jews out of Europe?

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, Phoenall,

Your logic is sound and valid to a point. But you do not carry it to a conclusion.

I have that is why I asked. It didn't say what you said.

But the LoN mandate of Palestine does, and you deny that this exists even when given valid links to it. WHY IS THIS ?

Quote the part that says that Palestinian land was given to the Jews?

Like this
Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory:
Are you now going to deny the actual words of the INTERNATIONAL LAW because you want to deny the Jews the same rights as the arab muslims ?

OK, but the "Jewish National Home" was not a land transfer. It was for Jews to get Palestinian citizenship. And like all other Palestinians, they would be allowed to live anywhere in Palestine.

(COMMENT)

You keep saying that the "Right of Self-Determination" is inalienable. So even if your assumption that a Jewish National Home was a component of a (non-existent Article 22 Arab leadership) "Palestine" --- it would not preclude the Jewish National Home and its constituents from exercising the "Right of Self-Determination!"

But let their be no mistake. The Mandate Territories of the Middle East (all of them) were transferred to the Allied Powers all titles and rights to the entire area, in the Treaty of Lausanne (Article 16). All the Treaty of Lausanne afforded the Arabs is the assurance that they would not be "stateless." But the future of the territories were in the hands of the Allied Powers.

The issue of citizenship for the Jewish People traveling to the territory was never an issue. It was decided in the San Remo Agreement and then articulation in the Mandate, how that would be accomplished. The Order in Council (Given Authority by the Allied Powers) and the Mandate, were the vehicles by which issues and decisions were documented. The League Covenant was NOT a Barrier or Limitation to the authority of the Allied Powers.

(CONTEMPORARY VIEW)

As it turned-out, the three principle documents (not including the UN Charter) that gave legitimacy to the modern state of Israel today were:

• San Remo Resolution of April 25, 1920,
• Mandate for Palestine conferred on Britain by the Allied Powers and confirmed by the League of Nations on July 24, 1922,
• Franco-British Boundary Convention of December 23, 1920.
​

The territorial and habitual residents of the territory in question were not (repeat not) a signatory any of these decisive documents. At the time of the San Remo Agreement, the territory in question was was under the effective control of the Enemy Occupied Territory Administration as "Enemy Territory."

Whether we can look back nearly a century ago and determine if the word “home” (in the phrase Jewish National Home) (as used in the Balfour Declaration and subsequently in the San Remo Resolution) was simply a euphemism for "state" is irrelevant and overtaken by events.

Just as today, the Israelis cannot claim that it was an illegal abrogation of Jewish legal rights and title of sovereignty to the whole of Palestine and the Land of Israel, so it is similar that the Arabs had on claim to the legal rights and title of sovereignty to the whole of Palestine. It was an issue and political question for the Allied Powers to resolve (as holders of the title and rights to the territory).

It should be noted and understood that it was the "ALLIED POWERS" that designated the Council of the League of Nations as the supervisor of the Mandatory and not the other way around.

The authority for Israel declaring independence comes from two sources: Chapter 1 of the UN Charter and inherent right of all people to self-determination.

No matter the claim by the Arab Palestinian or the external Area League aggressors attempting to prevent the Israeli right to self-determination from becoming a reality, the Israeli right of self-determination was as strong as any claim against them. And the Israeli successfully defended that right.

The validity of that right was born out by the lack of performance in development by any of the Area League Aggressors that choose Jihad over Peace; and the lack of political stability by and of the immediate Arab Neighbors. Palestinians that base their existence of generation promotion of jihad, are not inherently peaceful people.

GLOSSARY OF TERMS:
DEFINITION OF PRINCIPAL TERMS IN INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS

1, State: a large social system with a set of rules that are enforced by a permanent administrative body (government). That body claims and tries to enforce sovereignty. That is, the state claims to be the
highest source of decision-making of the social system within its jurisdiction, and it rejects outside interference in making or enforcing its set of rules. The many smaller systems within the state are not
sovereign, nor are large international organizations like the United Nations, since states routinely reject their authority. The state is a political concept that refers to the exercise of power or the ability to make and enforce rules.

2. Sovereign: ultimate power to control people and events within the area of the state.

3. Nation: a group of individuals who feel that they have so much in common (interests, habits, ways of thinking, and the like) that they should all become a particular state. Unlike the term state, the term
nation refers to the subjective feelings of its people. By this definition almost all the present nations would like to become nation-states, but many nations are actually parts of other states, and many states are not nation-states. On the whole, nation-states can count on much greater loyalty from their citizens than states that contain many nations, and this gives them greater strength in their inter-national dealings. (As you can see, the term “international” should really be “interstate”).

4. Society: the population controlled by a state, or the population that forms a nation, or both. Some societies are territorially limited to a single geographical area and a single state while others are not.

5. Country: a well-defined geographical area. The term simply refers to a spatial concept. ​

Most Respectfully,
R

You always speak of power politics where international law is not a consideration.

The civilized world is trying to move past what happened to the Native Americans or the Aboriginals in Australia.

 

[Shusha]

OK, but the "Jewish National Home" was not a land transfer.

Even if its not -- still, according to your own "rules" -- the Jewish people have an inalienable human right to self-determination and sovereignty. That right -- according to your own "rules" -- is identical to that of the Arab "Palestinians".

There you go again using the term "the Jewish people." Which Jews are you talking about? The native Jews of Palestine, or the colonizing Jews out of Europe?

They are ALL JEWISH PEOPLE.

Or are you really going to argue that only some Jewish people have rights and that only some Palestinian people have rights. And if you are going to create rules and criteria by which only some sub-groups of people have rights, please define your criteria.

Make sure you can apply those criteria equally -- ie which Palestinians are you talking about?

 

[Shusha]

The civilized world is trying to move past what happened to the Native Americans or the Aboriginals in Australia.

What the hell does that mean? How, exactly, are First Nations peoples meant to "move past what happened to them"?