America going to default

[ScienceRocks]

You default your party is fucking out of power until 2018. You may not get it back as our country becomes mexico by then.

 

[Freemason9]

We only have so much control over "when" we default....

If China and Japan decide to turn in a lot of our bonds because they find our government irresponsible? They could easily sink us over night.

And really? defending the default and saying "it won't be that bad"??? It's something that has never happened in history, it'd be totally unexplored territory! How the heck can we know what will happen?

Well said . Risking a default is like jumping over a cliff without knowing where your going to land.

It be crazy if they allow the country to default knowing america might not be able its debt . As bbc news report warns today

if the US government could not repay the money it owed bondholders, the value of the bonds would decrease. And the yield - the return the government pays to an investor - would rise. This is because it would be perceived as a less safe investment.

So another recession could be on the cards if your country defaults

at the risk of being repetitious:

Ok lets get over this lie about "default". There is plenty of govt revenue coming in every day to pay the interest on the debt. There is no chance of a default on the debt unless obama chooses to pay something else before the debt.

missing a food stamp payment or a gift payment to NPR is NOT a default.

STOP THE LIES ABOUT THE COUNTRY GOING INTO DEFAULT !

You're an idiot. This is what happens when you learn economics from AM talk radio.

We're talking massive outlays here. So who would you NOT pay? I know you already threatened the usual bogeymen (NPR funding of a couple of million bucks and food stamps), but you would have to stop social security payments, disability payments (both of which probably apply to you), farm subsidy payments (I'm good with that!), and payments to military staff.

Godammit, you folks are stupid.

 

[decker]

America going to default


No, the Republican Party is going to default America.

.

The GOP is responsible for making the debt payments? I did not know what.

Please explain how we would default when we take in more than 10 times that which is necessary to make those payments. The floor is yours...

Heres another article in examiner showing why america would default and how bad it be

The debt is not just numbers; it is real money that has been lent with real expectations of returned payment. The debt is owed to multi-national banks, foreign countries, and the public itself through treasuries. If an individual defaults on a loan, the debt does not disappear. Instead, the bank takes the loss. If the United States goes into default, much of the world will suddenly face the prospect of losing about $14 trillion dollars. The results likely will be catastrophic.

Many of the world's largest banks, which are still hardly on solid footing after the 2008 financial crisis, would go bankrupt due to their exposure to the United States. Credit for simple things like houses and car loans may become unavailable as a result. Most large companies use short-term credit to make their payrolls. That credit would disappear, and as a result, many workers would have to start going without a paycheck. There is a very real possibility that people would go to their local bank or ATM and not be able to withdraw cash from their account. Hyperinflation could very likely ensue as the United States dollar becomes basically worthless. The "full faith and credit" of the United States is the only thing holding up the value of the dollar, so when that credit is gone, it is hard to imagine the dollar's surviving with it.

In response to the crisis, businesses would once more lay off workers, only worsening matters and creating a downward economic cycle, which results in a depression. The stock market would plummet as well, negatively affecting the 401(k) accounts of millions of Americans. The price of oil would skyrocket, and with it likely the price of gasoline. Ironically, the only people to benefit may be the firms which invested in the kind of credit default swaps that caused the 2008 financial disaster.

So bad all round

 

[decker]

Well said . Risking a default is like jumping over a cliff without knowing where your going to land.

It be crazy if they allow the country to default knowing america might not be able its debt . As bbc news report warns today

if the US government could not repay the money it owed bondholders, the value of the bonds would decrease. And the yield - the return the government pays to an investor - would rise. This is because it would be perceived as a less safe investment.

So another recession could be on the cards if your country defaults

at the risk of being repetitious:

Ok lets get over this lie about "default". There is plenty of govt revenue coming in every day to pay the interest on the debt. There is no chance of a default on the debt unless obama chooses to pay something else before the debt.

missing a food stamp payment or a gift payment to NPR is NOT a default.

STOP THE LIES ABOUT THE COUNTRY GOING INTO DEFAULT !

You're an idiot. This is what happens when you learn economics from AM talk radio.

We're talking massive outlays here. So who would you NOT pay? I know you already threatened the usual bogeymen (NPR funding of a couple of million bucks and food stamps), but you would have to stop social security payments, disability payments (both of which probably apply to you), farm subsidy payments (I'm good with that!), and payments to military staff.

Godammit, you folks are stupid.

Well said its amazing how people thing this would not be anything but bad if your country defaults in two days time

 

[TakeAStepBack]

America going to default

I understand lying like this helps to panic the masses into supporting your agenda, but it's still a lie.

For the record, our current level of federal tax revenue is more than 10 TIMES that which is necessary to make our debt payments.

The only way we default is if the current administration refuses to make that payment despite having PLENTY of money to do so.

That's right. What they are really squaking about with all the doom and gloom is the federal governments inability to continue spending on its "projects", should the debt ceiling not be raised.
So they roll out the cancer lady of deficit/debt spending...the horrific Default.

It's working like it always does though. Plebs are all out squaking repeater lines of their favorite establishment moron about the end times if we dont grant the federal govt. the ability to get it heroin fix of more spending of other people's money.

 

[eflatminor]

at the risk of being repetitious:

Ok lets get over this lie about "default". There is plenty of govt revenue coming in every day to pay the interest on the debt. There is no chance of a default on the debt unless obama chooses to pay something else before the debt.

missing a food stamp payment or a gift payment to NPR is NOT a default.

STOP THE LIES ABOUT THE COUNTRY GOING INTO DEFAULT !

You're an idiot. This is what happens when you learn economics from AM talk radio.

We're talking massive outlays here. So who would you NOT pay? I know you already threatened the usual bogeymen (NPR funding of a couple of million bucks and food stamps), but you would have to stop social security payments, disability payments (both of which probably apply to you), farm subsidy payments (I'm good with that!), and payments to military staff.

Godammit, you folks are stupid.

Well said its amazing how people thing this would not be anything but bad if your country defaults in two days time

You keep lying about "default". You should stop that.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Or should I say, borrow money off our backs to spend.

 

[eflatminor]

We're talking massive outlays here. So who would you NOT pay? I know you already threatened the usual bogeymen (NPR funding of a couple of million bucks and food stamps), but you would have to stop social security payments, disability payments (both of which probably apply to you), farm subsidy payments (I'm good with that!), and payments to military staff.

Regardless, failing to pay any of those programs would NOT result in default.

 

[decker]

America going to default

I understand lying like this helps to panic the masses into supporting your agenda, but it's still a lie.

For the record, our current level of federal tax revenue is more than 10 TIMES that which is necessary to make our debt payments.

The only way we default is if the current administration refuses to make that payment despite having PLENTY of money to do so.

That's right. What they are really squaking about with all the doom and gloom is the federal governments inability to continue spending on its "projects", should the debt ceiling not be raised.
So they roll out the cancer lady of deficit/debt spending...the horrific Default.

It's working like it always does though. Plebs are all out squaking repeater lines of their favorite establishment moron about the end times if we dont grant the federal govt. the ability to get it heroin fix of more spending of other people's money.

mate the leader of the house who is conservative said default would be nightmare. he no big goverment liberal. Paul ryan and eric cantor have said same thing.

conservative murdoch owned wall street journal even said this


The main impact on markets would come from sharply reduced liquidity in the U.S. Treasury market, as financial firms’ procedures and systems would be tested by the world’s largest debt market being in default. Given the existing legal contracts, trading agreements, and trading systems with which firms operate, could U.S. Treasurys be held or purchased or used as collateral? The aftermath of the failure of Lehman Brothers should be a reminder that the financial system’s “plumbing” matters. All the legal commitments and limitations in a complex financial system mean a shock from an event that is viewed as inconceivable – such as a U.S. Treasury default – can cause the system to stall. The impact of a U.S. Treasury default could make us nostalgic for the market conditions that existed immediately after the failure of Lehman Brothers.

Post-default liquidity could get even worse in the likely event of a rating downgrade. The liquidity event would not be limited to the Treasury market. Any reduction in the ability to use Treasury debt as collateral for loans would mean funds would need to be found: liquid assets sold to raise cash. Additionally, holders of U.S. Treasurys counting on timely payment could be forced to borrow funds in upset credit markets when those funds do not materialize.

 

[eflatminor]

America going to default


No, the Republican Party is going to default America.

.

The GOP is responsible for making the debt payments? I did not know what.

Please explain how we would default when we take in more than 10 times that which is necessary to make those payments. The floor is yours...

Heres another article in examiner showing why america would default and how bad it be

The debt is not just numbers; it is real money that has been lent with real expectations of returned payment. The debt is owed to multi-national banks, foreign countries, and the public itself through treasuries. If an individual defaults on a loan, the debt does not disappear. Instead, the bank takes the loss. If the United States goes into default, much of the world will suddenly face the prospect of losing about $14 trillion dollars. The results likely will be catastrophic.

Many of the world's largest banks, which are still hardly on solid footing after the 2008 financial crisis, would go bankrupt due to their exposure to the United States. Credit for simple things like houses and car loans may become unavailable as a result. Most large companies use short-term credit to make their payrolls. That credit would disappear, and as a result, many workers would have to start going without a paycheck. There is a very real possibility that people would go to their local bank or ATM and not be able to withdraw cash from their account. Hyperinflation could very likely ensue as the United States dollar becomes basically worthless. The "full faith and credit" of the United States is the only thing holding up the value of the dollar, so when that credit is gone, it is hard to imagine the dollar's surviving with it.

In response to the crisis, businesses would once more lay off workers, only worsening matters and creating a downward economic cycle, which results in a depression. The stock market would plummet as well, negatively affecting the 401(k) accounts of millions of Americans. The price of oil would skyrocket, and with it likely the price of gasoline. Ironically, the only people to benefit may be the firms which invested in the kind of credit default swaps that caused the 2008 financial disaster.

So bad all round

Nothing in those words suggests we don't have PLENTY of money to pay the debt. Again, tell us why...in your own words...you think we would default. Who is going to refuse to make a debt payment when there is more than enough money to do so?

 

[TakeAStepBack]

America going to default


No, the Republican Party is going to default America.

.

The GOP is responsible for making the debt payments? I did not know what.

Please explain how we would default when we take in more than 10 times that which is necessary to make those payments. The floor is yours...

Heres another article in examiner showing why america would default and how bad it be

The debt is not just numbers; it is real money that has been lent with real expectations of returned payment. The debt is owed to multi-national banks, foreign countries, and the public itself through treasuries. If an individual defaults on a loan, the debt does not disappear. Instead, the bank takes the loss. If the United States goes into default, much of the world will suddenly face the prospect of losing about $14 trillion dollars. The results likely will be catastrophic.

Many of the world's largest banks, which are still hardly on solid footing after the 2008 financial crisis, would go bankrupt due to their exposure to the United States. Credit for simple things like houses and car loans may become unavailable as a result. Most large companies use short-term credit to make their payrolls. That credit would disappear, and as a result, many workers would have to start going without a paycheck. There is a very real possibility that people would go to their local bank or ATM and not be able to withdraw cash from their account. Hyperinflation could very likely ensue as the United States dollar becomes basically worthless. The "full faith and credit" of the United States is the only thing holding up the value of the dollar, so when that credit is gone, it is hard to imagine the dollar's surviving with it.

In response to the crisis, businesses would once more lay off workers, only worsening matters and creating a downward economic cycle, which results in a depression. The stock market would plummet as well, negatively affecting the 401(k) accounts of millions of Americans. The price of oil would skyrocket, and with it likely the price of gasoline. Ironically, the only people to benefit may be the firms which invested in the kind of credit default swaps that caused the 2008 financial disaster.

So bad all round

It's a now or later proposition. The facts are right in that post. The dollar is worthless except under the guise of confidence. It's not tied to any real wealth. Eventually under the circumstances by which we live, we're going to be faced with sucha calamity. Thats the reality of it. I know most people just want to kick the can until it no longer effects them when it happens, but tough shit. You voted for it, you continue to vote for it so you get what you deserve. Some of us are just along for the ride.

 

[eflatminor]

I understand lying like this helps to panic the masses into supporting your agenda, but it's still a lie.

For the record, our current level of federal tax revenue is more than 10 TIMES that which is necessary to make our debt payments.

The only way we default is if the current administration refuses to make that payment despite having PLENTY of money to do so.

That's right. What they are really squaking about with all the doom and gloom is the federal governments inability to continue spending on its "projects", should the debt ceiling not be raised.
So they roll out the cancer lady of deficit/debt spending...the horrific Default.

It's working like it always does though. Plebs are all out squaking repeater lines of their favorite establishment moron about the end times if we dont grant the federal govt. the ability to get it heroin fix of more spending of other people's money.

mate the leader of the house who is conservative said default would be nightmare. he no big goverment liberal. Paul ryan and eric cantor have said same thing.

Perhaps it would, but again, why would we default when we have plenty of money to pay the debt???

 

[decker]

The GOP is responsible for making the debt payments? I did not know what.

Please explain how we would default when we take in more than 10 times that which is necessary to make those payments. The floor is yours...

Heres another article in examiner showing why america would default and how bad it be

The debt is not just numbers; it is real money that has been lent with real expectations of returned payment. The debt is owed to multi-national banks, foreign countries, and the public itself through treasuries. If an individual defaults on a loan, the debt does not disappear. Instead, the bank takes the loss. If the United States goes into default, much of the world will suddenly face the prospect of losing about $14 trillion dollars. The results likely will be catastrophic.

Many of the world's largest banks, which are still hardly on solid footing after the 2008 financial crisis, would go bankrupt due to their exposure to the United States. Credit for simple things like houses and car loans may become unavailable as a result. Most large companies use short-term credit to make their payrolls. That credit would disappear, and as a result, many workers would have to start going without a paycheck. There is a very real possibility that people would go to their local bank or ATM and not be able to withdraw cash from their account. Hyperinflation could very likely ensue as the United States dollar becomes basically worthless. The "full faith and credit" of the United States is the only thing holding up the value of the dollar, so when that credit is gone, it is hard to imagine the dollar's surviving with it.

In response to the crisis, businesses would once more lay off workers, only worsening matters and creating a downward economic cycle, which results in a depression. The stock market would plummet as well, negatively affecting the 401(k) accounts of millions of Americans. The price of oil would skyrocket, and with it likely the price of gasoline. Ironically, the only people to benefit may be the firms which invested in the kind of credit default swaps that caused the 2008 financial disaster.

So bad all round

Nothing in those words suggests we don't have PLENTY of money to pay the debt. Again, tell us why...in your own words...you think we would default. Who is going to refuse to make a debt payment when there is more than enough money to do so?

mate if you default markets around the world would plunge and investors would pull out. Not just my words but bbc and many non american sites words.

 

[Redfish]

Well said . Risking a default is like jumping over a cliff without knowing where your going to land.

It be crazy if they allow the country to default knowing america might not be able its debt . As bbc news report warns today

if the US government could not repay the money it owed bondholders, the value of the bonds would decrease. And the yield - the return the government pays to an investor - would rise. This is because it would be perceived as a less safe investment.

So another recession could be on the cards if your country defaults

at the risk of being repetitious:

Ok lets get over this lie about "default". There is plenty of govt revenue coming in every day to pay the interest on the debt. There is no chance of a default on the debt unless obama chooses to pay something else before the debt.

missing a food stamp payment or a gift payment to NPR is NOT a default.

STOP THE LIES ABOUT THE COUNTRY GOING INTO DEFAULT !

You're an idiot. This is what happens when you learn economics from AM talk radio.

We're talking massive outlays here. So who would you NOT pay? I know you already threatened the usual bogeymen (NPR funding of a couple of million bucks and food stamps), but you would have to stop social security payments, disability payments (both of which probably apply to you), farm subsidy payments (I'm good with that!), and payments to military staff.

Godammit, you folks are stupid.

Default means not paying the interest on outstanding bonds. There is plenty of revenue to cover the interest payments.

Cutting the DOD budget, cutting welfare payments, cutting funding to NPR and PP are not defaults.

Sorry, but its you dem/lib prophets of doom that are stupid.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

I understand lying like this helps to panic the masses into supporting your agenda, but it's still a lie.

For the record, our current level of federal tax revenue is more than 10 TIMES that which is necessary to make our debt payments.

The only way we default is if the current administration refuses to make that payment despite having PLENTY of money to do so.

That's right. What they are really squaking about with all the doom and gloom is the federal governments inability to continue spending on its "projects", should the debt ceiling not be raised.
So they roll out the cancer lady of deficit/debt spending...the horrific Default.

It's working like it always does though. Plebs are all out squaking repeater lines of their favorite establishment moron about the end times if we dont grant the federal govt. the ability to get it heroin fix of more spending of other people's money.

mate the leader of the house who is conservative said default would be nightmare. he no big goverment liberal. Paul ryan and eric cantor have said same thing.

conservative murdoch owned wall street journal even said this


The main impact on markets would come from sharply reduced liquidity in the U.S. Treasury market, as financial firms’ procedures and systems would be tested by the world’s largest debt market being in default. Given the existing legal contracts, trading agreements, and trading systems with which firms operate, could U.S. Treasurys be held or purchased or used as collateral? The aftermath of the failure of Lehman Brothers should be a reminder that the financial system’s “plumbing” matters. All the legal commitments and limitations in a complex financial system mean a shock from an event that is viewed as inconceivable – such as a U.S. Treasury default – can cause the system to stall. The impact of a U.S. Treasury default could make us nostalgic for the market conditions that existed immediately after the failure of Lehman Brothers.

Post-default liquidity could get even worse in the likely event of a rating downgrade. The liquidity event would not be limited to the Treasury market. Any reduction in the ability to use Treasury debt as collateral for loans would mean funds would need to be found: liquid assets sold to raise cash. Additionally, holders of U.S. Treasurys counting on timely payment could be forced to borrow funds in upset credit markets when those funds do not materialize.

And you're missing the fact we have the money to service the debt interest obligations. The only thing that will decide a default is whether or not the retards in washington are dumb enough to do it instead of avoid it with current revenue. That decision has nothing to do withour ability to pay. it has to do with retards in washington.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

of course their still risk of default even if obama pay this. I don,t want to repeat myself but

As bbc news report warns today

if the US government could not repay the money it owed bondholders, the value of the bonds would decrease. And the yield - the return the government pays to an investor - would rise. This is because it would be perceived as a less safe investment.

if the US government could not repay the money it owed bondholders, the value of the bonds would decrease.

The government can roll over bonds as they come due, without increasing net debt.
No default, no failure to repay, no increase in debt.

fair enough but even if obama does this as telegraph newspaper in uk points out here

Credit markets would freeze across the world as US treasuries are used as collateral in most transactions, and they would no longer be accepted. CDSs would begin to pay out with the same unknowable exposures. Inter-bank lending lines would close. Without even treasuries to store funds, investors would do the market equivalent of stuffing cash under the mattress. “It would be like Lehmans but without any government safety net,” says Mr Ward. Or in the more apocalyptic words of Mr Lewis: “The global financial system collapses. You get political and economic meltdown. It would be the end of the world as we know it.”

Why would credit markets freeze if interest is paid?
Why would CDS payout with no default?
If bonds were rolled over, why would Treasuries no longer be accepted?

 

[eflatminor]

Heres another article in examiner showing why america would default and how bad it be

The debt is not just numbers; it is real money that has been lent with real expectations of returned payment. The debt is owed to multi-national banks, foreign countries, and the public itself through treasuries. If an individual defaults on a loan, the debt does not disappear. Instead, the bank takes the loss. If the United States goes into default, much of the world will suddenly face the prospect of losing about $14 trillion dollars. The results likely will be catastrophic.

Many of the world's largest banks, which are still hardly on solid footing after the 2008 financial crisis, would go bankrupt due to their exposure to the United States. Credit for simple things like houses and car loans may become unavailable as a result. Most large companies use short-term credit to make their payrolls. That credit would disappear, and as a result, many workers would have to start going without a paycheck. There is a very real possibility that people would go to their local bank or ATM and not be able to withdraw cash from their account. Hyperinflation could very likely ensue as the United States dollar becomes basically worthless. The "full faith and credit" of the United States is the only thing holding up the value of the dollar, so when that credit is gone, it is hard to imagine the dollar's surviving with it.

In response to the crisis, businesses would once more lay off workers, only worsening matters and creating a downward economic cycle, which results in a depression. The stock market would plummet as well, negatively affecting the 401(k) accounts of millions of Americans. The price of oil would skyrocket, and with it likely the price of gasoline. Ironically, the only people to benefit may be the firms which invested in the kind of credit default swaps that caused the 2008 financial disaster.

So bad all round

Nothing in those words suggests we don't have PLENTY of money to pay the debt. Again, tell us why...in your own words...you think we would default. Who is going to refuse to make a debt payment when there is more than enough money to do so?

mate if you default markets around the world would plunge and investors would pull out. Not just my words but bbc and many non american sites words.

Now you're just being obtuse! No one is suggesting that default wouldn't be bad. We're saying that there is no logical reason we would default because we have more than enough revenue to pay the debt. Now please, answer the question: Why would we default if our revenues are more than 10 times that which is necessary to pay the debt?

 

[decker]

That's right. What they are really squaking about with all the doom and gloom is the federal governments inability to continue spending on its "projects", should the debt ceiling not be raised.
So they roll out the cancer lady of deficit/debt spending...the horrific Default.

It's working like it always does though. Plebs are all out squaking repeater lines of their favorite establishment moron about the end times if we dont grant the federal govt. the ability to get it heroin fix of more spending of other people's money.

mate the leader of the house who is conservative said default would be nightmare. he no big goverment liberal. Paul ryan and eric cantor have said same thing.

Perhaps it would, but again, why would we default when we have plenty of money to pay the debt???

you won,t have same amount of money if you default. Here more evidence to throw at you
in buisness insider

One quote from Jamie Dimon is especially chilling:

Now, here's what really would happen.

Every single company with treasuries, every insurance fund, every -- every requirement that -- it will start snowballing. Automatic, you don't pay your debt, there will be default by ratings agencies. All short-term financing will disappear. I would have hundreds of work streams working around the world protecting our company for that kind of event.

And recently, he told the US Chamber of Commerce, "If anyone wants to [cap the debt ceiling], which I think would be catastrophic and unpredictable, I think they're crazy."

And Dimon apparently brought up the subject on JPMorgan's earning call yesterday too. According to the Wall Street Journal, he said that the bank is preparing for the (unlikely) case of default.

"We are praying," Dimon said, then, after a pause, "And we are planning."



Read more: Jamie Dimon: Here's What Will Happen If The Debt Ceiling Isn't Raised And The U.S. Defaults - Business Insider

 

[Redfish]

Heres another article in examiner showing why america would default and how bad it be

The debt is not just numbers; it is real money that has been lent with real expectations of returned payment. The debt is owed to multi-national banks, foreign countries, and the public itself through treasuries. If an individual defaults on a loan, the debt does not disappear. Instead, the bank takes the loss. If the United States goes into default, much of the world will suddenly face the prospect of losing about $14 trillion dollars. The results likely will be catastrophic.

Many of the world's largest banks, which are still hardly on solid footing after the 2008 financial crisis, would go bankrupt due to their exposure to the United States. Credit for simple things like houses and car loans may become unavailable as a result. Most large companies use short-term credit to make their payrolls. That credit would disappear, and as a result, many workers would have to start going without a paycheck. There is a very real possibility that people would go to their local bank or ATM and not be able to withdraw cash from their account. Hyperinflation could very likely ensue as the United States dollar becomes basically worthless. The "full faith and credit" of the United States is the only thing holding up the value of the dollar, so when that credit is gone, it is hard to imagine the dollar's surviving with it.

In response to the crisis, businesses would once more lay off workers, only worsening matters and creating a downward economic cycle, which results in a depression. The stock market would plummet as well, negatively affecting the 401(k) accounts of millions of Americans. The price of oil would skyrocket, and with it likely the price of gasoline. Ironically, the only people to benefit may be the firms which invested in the kind of credit default swaps that caused the 2008 financial disaster.

So bad all round

Nothing in those words suggests we don't have PLENTY of money to pay the debt. Again, tell us why...in your own words...you think we would default. Who is going to refuse to make a debt payment when there is more than enough money to do so?

mate if you default markets around the world would plunge and investors would pull out. Not just my words but bbc and many non american sites words.

that is a huge IF. There is absolutely no reason for the USA to default on its debt interest payments, NONE.

Yes, a US default would be bad, but it can only happen if Obama chooses to ignore the debt payments and pay something else. Do you think he is that stupid, or that determined to destroy the US economy?

 

[Rambunctious]

More legacy for OBUMMER...what a train wreck of a presidency....you libs that voted for him I say to you...Thank you. Now we will see what liberalism does to a economy.