Americans May Not Be 'Sold' On National Health Care

[mattskramer]

The American people aren't half as stupid as the liberals would like to believe.

but they elected Bill Clinton twice.

 

[nibor]

I'm a retired Marine. Getting sick is not my problem, even though I now pay for what I was supposed to get free for life. Nothing like erosion of benefits.

I wasn't saying YOU needed unemployment. My point was that I can understand how you think a system that you pay into is supposed to be there for you and it turns out it's only there for those who know how to abuse it correctly.

On a personal note ... how come you can't social security disability if you're permanently disabled? I don't understand that ....

God forbid you EVER have to deal with those thieving pricks............the system is out of control................maybe I'm not American enough or too American.....................

 

[Gunny]

God forbid you EVER have to deal with those thieving pricks............the system is out of control................maybe I'm not American enough or too American.....................

I did have to deal with them. They denied my wife's claim because her disability is not permanent. Basically, if where you work screws you over and you aren't covered by their insurance, if you need surgery, you're screwed until you can go back to work.

And you obviously don't read a lot of my posts. I am loyal to this Nation, the Constitution, and the ideals that this nation was founded upon. I feel NO sense of loyalty to a government that represents none of the aforementioned.

 

[Gunny]

but they elected Bill Clinton twice.

He won with a minority vote in 92 and the Republicans rolled out a cadaver to run against him in 96. Don't mistake disafection within the Republican party and/or among conservatives as a whole vs the lemming-like consolidation of Democrat voters.

 

[Foxfyre]

THERE WAS NO ACTUAL INSURANCE.....................just a common goal to keep people healthy.......get real!!!!!!

You didn't specify what kind of insurance. You specified the insurance industry which I simply explained has been in existance for at least 4000 years. And get real if you think organized crime had any interest in providing health insurance to anybody unless agreeing not to machine gun you to death can be interpreted as insurance.

You're the one making unsupported claims here re organized crime and such as that. I'm merely clarifying what the situation is.

Some form of compulsory medical insurance has been around among some 50 or 60 countries since the late 19th century with most allowing some supplemental private insurance as well. By the first quarter of the 20th century, various insurance companies were developing the first medical insurance plans in America, most designed to cover the costs of hospitalization and child birth, but it was generally affordable. It usually did not pay for a routine office visit or prescriptions which did not become routine until Medicare went into effect in the mid l960's.

In the 1970's a relative sustained a large 3rd degree burn and from the hospital emergency room was admitted for the night due to having been given a shot of a high powered pain killer. Cost of the overnight stay in the hospital - $50.00. Cost of followup care of the injury about $20.00 including two or three doctor visits. Today that same incident would have cost well over $1,000.

That's what government involvement in healthcare plus a litigious society does for us.

 

[jillian]

He won with a minority vote in 92 and the Republicans rolled out a cadaver to run against him in 96. Don't mistake disafection within the Republican party and/or among conservatives as a whole vs the lemming-like consolidation of Democrat voters.

lemminglike? That's really funny given that no two democrats ever agree on anything and the right has gone in lock-step ever since Reagan. That's only recently changed because a) bush has been so pathetic; and b) there is a split between fiscal conservatives, religious conservatives and people who want to continue the catastrophe of the last 7 years.

BTW, wouldn't worry too much about the way President Clinton won -- Bush didn't even win the popular vote, much less a majority of voters.

 

[Toro]

I've met people who cannot get coverage. I don't know if a universal healthcare system funded by the government is the answer, but this is a travesty.

 

[Foxfyre]

I've met people who cannot get coverage. I don't know if a universal healthcare system funded by the government is the answer, but this is a travesty.

That could be remedied by an assigned risk pool similar to those provided for drivers with such poor records that insurance companies don't want to insure them on purpose or companies who have incurred so many work comp or general liability claims that they have become uninsurable. AR policies are usually rated up, but they do allow for people to get insurance when they must have it.

The fallacy of the whole universal health care thing is that most Americans do have insurance and are satisfied with the healthcare that is available to them. Others could have that but choose not to and that should be their right. Those who choose to be self insured should be required to pay their own costs for health care however. The few who are temporarily uninsured due to voluntary job changes, etc. are likely to be fortunate enough not to incur major costs during the relatively short time they go bare.

There are any number of ways to make it possible for the relatively few people who would be left to obtain insurance by restructuring groups, providing incentives for assigned risk pools to be formed, etc.

It seems to me that it is imprudent, unwise, and detrimental for the government to take over entire control of 14% of the U.S. economy just so that a relatively small group of uninsured people will have health insurance.

 

[mattskramer]

He won with a minority vote in 92 and the Republicans rolled out a cadaver to run against him in 96. Don't mistake disafection within the Republican party and/or among conservatives as a whole vs the lemming-like consolidation of Democrat voters.

I sort of see your point but I think that the proof is in the pudding. However you want to spin it (Ex: conservatives let Bill win) the American voters, who cared, voted and they voted for Bill Clinton. Therefore, supposedly, Americans are sometimes dumb and sometimes smart.

 

[Truthmatters]

Try again. Universal health care is only cheap for those who don't have to pay for it, and the care is mediocre at best.

That you think the consumer is going to save money is a joke. The only ones that will be saving any money are those that are currently uninsured. The rest of us will have to foot the bill for them and STILL pay for the healthcare we want tht isn't provided down at the Free Clinic.

Gunny the countries that have universal health care pay less than we do and have better health.

Facts just are not on the side of the people who think its a bad idea.

 

[Truthmatters]

http://www.nchc.org/facts/coverage.shtml

Please peopel lets deal in the facts


Who are the uninsured?


Nearly 47 million Americans, or 16 percent of the population, were without health insurance in 2005, the latest government data available.1
The number of uninsured rose 2.2 million between 2005 and 2006 and has increased by almost 9 million people since 2000.1
The large majority of the uninsured (80 percent) are native or naturalized citizens.2
The increase in the number of uninsured in 2006 was focused among working age adults. The percentage of working adults (18 to 64) who had no health coverage climbed from 19.7 percent in 2005 to 20.2 percent in 2006.1 Nearly 1.3 million full-time workers lost their health insurance in 2006.
Nearly 90 million people - about one-third of the population below the age of 65 spent a portion of either 2006 or 2007 without health coverage.3
Over 8 in 10 uninsured people come from working families - almost 70 percent from families with one or more full-time workers and 11 percent from families with part-time workers.2
The percentage of people (workers and dependents) with employment-based health insurance has dropped from 70 percent in 1987 to 59 percent in 2006. This is the lowest level of employment-based insurance coverage in more than a decade.4, 5
In 2005, nearly 15 percent of employees had no employer-sponsored health coverage available to them, either through their own job or through a family member.6
In 2006, 37.7 million workers were uninsured because not all businesses offer health benefits, not all workers qualify for coverage and many employees cannot afford their share of the health insurance premium even when coverage is at their fingertips.1
The number of uninsured children in 2006 was 8.7 million - or 11.7 percent of all children in the U.S.1 The number of children who are uninsured increased by nearly 610,000 in 2006, the second year that the number of uninsured children increased.
Young adults (18-to-24 years old) remained the least likely of any age group to have health insurance in 2005 - 29.3 percent of this group did not have health insurance.1
The percentage and the number of uninsured Hispanics increased to 34.1 percent and 15.3 million in 2006.1
Nearly 40 percent of the uninsured population reside in households that earn $50,000 or more.1 A growing number of middle-income families cannot afford health insurance payments even when coverage is offered by their employers.

 

[Swamp Fox]

Gunny the countries that have universal health care pay less than we do and have better health.

Facts just are not on the side of the people who think its a bad idea.

Show me a source, name some countries. That way we can look at the entire picture of that country. Such as, Cuba's got great health care, but you're a slave for the dictatorship.

 

[Swamp Fox]

http://www.nchc.org/facts/coverage.shtml

Please peopel lets deal in the facts


Who are the uninsured?


Nearly 47 million Americans, or 16 percent of the population, were without health insurance in 2005, the latest government data available.1
The number of uninsured rose 2.2 million between 2005 and 2006 and has increased by almost 9 million people since 2000.1
The large majority of the uninsured (80 percent) are native or naturalized citizens.2
The increase in the number of uninsured in 2006 was focused among working age adults. The percentage of working adults (18 to 64) who had no health coverage climbed from 19.7 percent in 2005 to 20.2 percent in 2006.1 Nearly 1.3 million full-time workers lost their health insurance in 2006.
Nearly 90 million people - about one-third of the population below the age of 65 spent a portion of either 2006 or 2007 without health coverage.3
Over 8 in 10 uninsured people come from working families - almost 70 percent from families with one or more full-time workers and 11 percent from families with part-time workers.2
The percentage of people (workers and dependents) with employment-based health insurance has dropped from 70 percent in 1987 to 59 percent in 2006. This is the lowest level of employment-based insurance coverage in more than a decade.4, 5
In 2005, nearly 15 percent of employees had no employer-sponsored health coverage available to them, either through their own job or through a family member.6
In 2006, 37.7 million workers were uninsured because not all businesses offer health benefits, not all workers qualify for coverage and many employees cannot afford their share of the health insurance premium even when coverage is at their fingertips.1
The number of uninsured children in 2006 was 8.7 million - or 11.7 percent of all children in the U.S.1 The number of children who are uninsured increased by nearly 610,000 in 2006, the second year that the number of uninsured children increased.
Young adults (18-to-24 years old) remained the least likely of any age group to have health insurance in 2005 - 29.3 percent of this group did not have health insurance.1
The percentage and the number of uninsured Hispanics increased to 34.1 percent and 15.3 million in 2006.1
Nearly 40 percent of the uninsured population reside in households that earn $50,000 or more.1 A growing number of middle-income families cannot afford health insurance payments even when coverage is offered by their employers.

Maybe John Edwards should give back some of the millions he made suing doctors so the price of health care will drop again.

 

[Gunny]

lemminglike? That's really funny given that no two democrats ever agree on anything and the right has gone in lock-step ever since Reagan. That's only recently changed because a) bush has been so pathetic; and b) there is a split between fiscal conservatives, religious conservatives and people who want to continue the catastrophe of the last 7 years.

BTW, wouldn't worry too much about the way President Clinton won -- Bush didn't even win the popular vote, much less a majority of voters.

Really? I see plenty of so-called conservatives arguing amongst each other on this board at different times.

Do feel free to SHOW ME where two liberals are arguing about anything that's actually important? I sure don't see it. Y'all pretty-much agree on EVERYTHING.

And when it comes to voting, agreement isn't an issue. You're going to push that "D" button no matter what. God himself could run on the GOP ticket and Satan the Democrat ticket and you'd STILL vote Democrat.

And all I can say to the "Bush is so pathetic ... catastrophe for the past 7 years" is "blah .... blah ..... blah. " Y'all need a new line. That one's WAY past old.

There's a REASON none of y'all's BS has stuck .....

 

[Gunny]

I sort of see your point but I think that the proof is in the pudding. However you want to spin it (Ex: conservatives let Bill win) the American voters, who cared, voted and they voted for Bill Clinton. Therefore, supposedly, Americans are sometimes dumb and sometimes smart.

Well, "Conservatives let Bill win" is not the way I'd say it. Their actions led to his win, yes. I am aware that he did receive votes. My point is, he did not receive 50% or more of the votes cast; therefore, "the will of the people" is a misnomer. Obviously, there was no "will of the people" if a candidate does not pull at least 50% of the votes cast. He won via mathematical superiority.

Saying that American voters who cared voted for Clinton is BS. People who go out and vote care; regardless which side of the political spectrum they fall on. It's actually QUITE the pain in the ass.

 

[PpleLOSINGpower]

Waahhhh! People don't have health care....waahhh. Whose fault is that? All the lazy bum whiners gotta do is buy health insurance. Wow. What a concept. But no, the productive people in our country are supposed to pay for the bums. God I hate the libs. Thank God our next President will be John McCain, a genuine war hero like our current President, who believes in fighting them over there instead of here, at any cost. Our next President also favors more prisons to house the criminal ingrates in our society, and he backs cutting education, which is a liberal socialist giveaway of our tax dollars. Drown the socialist government in the bath tub.

WHAT? Nobody knows where the hell Bush was when he was inlisted!

 

[Truthmatters]

Over 8 in 10 uninsured people come from working families - almost 70 percent from families with one or more full-time workers and 11 percent from families with part-time workers.


Now why is no one talking about the facts provided?

It seems the right went right into personal insults the minute the facts hit the table?

 

[nibor]

You didn't specify what kind of insurance. You specified the insurance industry which I simply explained has been in existance for at least 4000 years. And get real if you think organized crime had any interest in providing health insurance to anybody unless agreeing not to machine gun you to death can be interpreted as insurance.

You're the one making unsupported claims here re organized crime and such as that. I'm merely clarifying what the situation is.

Some form of compulsory medical insurance has been around among some 50 or 60 countries since the late 19th century with most allowing some supplemental private insurance as well. By the first quarter of the 20th century, various insurance companies were developing the first medical insurance plans in America, most designed to cover the costs of hospitalization and child birth, but it was generally affordable. It usually did not pay for a routine office visit or prescriptions which did not become routine until Medicare went into effect in the mid l960's.

In the 1970's a relative sustained a large 3rd degree burn and from the hospital emergency room was admitted for the night due to having been given a shot of a high powered pain killer. Cost of the overnight stay in the hospital - $50.00. Cost of followup care of the injury about $20.00 including two or three doctor visits. Today that same incident would have cost well over $1,000.

That's what government involvement in healthcare plus a litigious society does for us.

Ok I'm back to argue this issue further.......................even though I'm out of my mind and know absolutely nothing about this issue.......

Let's start by me asking you.............WHO STARTED "PROTECTION" RACKETS?

And Foxy your assessmant of what gubment actually does or doesn't do for us in this issue may be more than just a little "distorted".................

 

[nibor]

Over 8 in 10 uninsured people come from working families - almost 70 percent from families with one or more full-time workers and 11 percent from families with part-time workers.


Now why is no one talking about the facts provided?

It seems the right went right into personal insults the minute the facts hit the table?

TM, I'd call you Truth but distorted facts DON'T add up to that................

Maybe you need a fucking GRAPH........................

 

[Annie]

TM, I'd call you Truth but distorted facts DON'T add up to that................

Maybe you need a fucking GRAPH........................

She's using her own supplied url:

http://www.nchc.org/facts/coverage.shtml

note her info comes from there, with a direct to an endnote. Said endnote takes you to another 'national health care site', only the "facts" you know.