August 2, 216 BC , Cannae, Italy

[Polishprince]

The Carthaginians beat the Italians in the historic battle.

Two points of note about the festivities. One, it was an extremely violent affair, more than 50,000 men killed to death - in an era BEFORE firearms were even invented. Proving that the liberal theory that getting rid of guns will eliminate violence is bullshit.

Two, Hannibal Barca was a honky. Even though he hailed from Africa, he wasn't a member of the African American race at all.

 

[percysunshine]

There is no such thing as an African American race.

Oh, and it is impossible to be killed to life.

 

[OldLady]

This is his father, Hamilcar Barca. That's a Mediterranean nose if I ever saw one. Phoenicia and later Greece colonized Carthage, iirc.

 

[Polishprince]

There is no such thing as an African American race.

Oh, and it is impossible to be killed to life.

The Roman Army wasn't "killed to life" at all, they were killed to death, as I pointed out.

 

[Polishprince]

There is no such thing as an African American race.
.

The Bureau of the Census disagrees. African American is definitely listed as a "race" that people can belong to.

If an agency of the United States government agrees that the AA is a race, who am I to disagree?


About Race

 

[percysunshine]

There is no such thing as an African American race.
.

The Bureau of the Census disagrees. African American is definitely listed as a "race" that people can belong to.

If an agency of the United States government agrees that the AA is a race, who am I to disagree?


About Race

The racial group is ‘Black’...as indicated in your link.

And since when has Congress ever been the arbiter of common sense?

Race is not a geographic trait.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

There is no such thing as an African American race.
.

The Bureau of the Census disagrees. African American is definitely listed as a "race"

They're afraid of words like "negro" and "oriental".

 

[OldLady]

What is important is the elephants, though, right?

 

[Picaro]

The Carthaginians were Phoenicians, largely of eastern Med and Asian DNA; one of the reasons the Romans hated them so badly was they practiced human sacrifice, even of children. Greek and Phoenician colonies dotted the shores of the Med for thousands of years, and at least 1,200 years or so before Rome was invented their trade routes went all the way to Britain, and possible even the Americas.

 

[Picaro]

There is no such thing as an African American race.
.

The Bureau of the Census disagrees. African American is definitely listed as a "race" that people can belong to.

If an agency of the United States government agrees that the AA is a race, who am I to disagree?


About Race

The racial group is ‘Black’...as indicated in your link.

And since when has Congress ever been the arbiter of common sense?

Race is not a geographic trait.

Actually it is; all races came from a particular geographic region, usually where they still dominate. Buddy Hackett didn't come from Peking, and Mao didn't come from Dublin.

 

[Polishprince]

What is important is the elephants, though, right?

There were no elephants in Mr. Barca's army by the time they reached Cannae in the summer of 216

 

[there4eyeM]

The audacity of Hannibal, Alexander and others is incredible. Their actions are not admirable, but their faith in themselves is extraordinary.

 

[OldLady]

What is important is the elephants, though, right?

There were no elephants in Mr. Barca's army by the time they reached Cannae in the summer of 216

There was one that made it across, although he was not taken into the Battle of Cannae, you are correct. Bless his poor heart.

This is a fascinating show postulating Hannibal's route. If he did in fact take this much faster route, it is possible not all the elephants perished?
How (and Where) Did Hannibal Cross the Alps? Experts Finally Have Answers

-another source-
In the event, although Hannibal did successfully negotiate the Alpine passes, his losses were considerable. Over half his army died in the severe, cold conditions, Hannibal himself was blinded in one eye, and it is recorded that only one of his elephants survived the trek. This lone elephant was used by Hannibal to ride in triumph into the city of Capua. What happened to the animal afterwards is unknown, although the elephant certainly didn’t participate in any of the subsequent fighting, which led to Hannibal’s eventual defeat.
How many elephants did Hannibal take over the Alps?

 

[Picaro]

The audacity of Hannibal, Alexander and others is incredible. Their actions are not admirable, but their faith in themselves is extraordinary.

I'm impressed by their logistical capabilities given the technology levels they had. Moving large armies around so far from their bases of supply is not a job for idiots.

 

[OldLady]

The audacity of Hannibal, Alexander and others is incredible. Their actions are not admirable, but their faith in themselves is extraordinary.

I'm impressed by their logistical capabilities given the technology levels they had. Moving large armies around so far from their bases of supply is not a job for idiots.

In the PBS show that is linked, they estimated the incredible amount of food needed just for the elephants and the extra animals and men needed to carry it all. Elephants were the secret weapon of the day--who could withstand them? But bringing them over the Alps?

 

[Polishprince]

The audacity of Hannibal, Alexander and others is incredible. Their actions are not admirable, but their faith in themselves is extraordinary.

I'm impressed by their logistical capabilities given the technology levels they had. Moving large armies around so far from their bases of supply is not a job for idiots.

In the PBS show that is linked, they estimated the incredible amount of food needed just for the elephants and the extra animals and men needed to carry it all. Elephants were the secret weapon of the day--who could withstand them? But bringing them over the Alps?

Elephants were antiquity's answer to the modern tank, they gave the armies that had them a nice edge.

I don't think they were a "secret" at all, just that they were found in Europe during the 3rd Century.

But I'm sure that in their expeditions to Africa and elsewhere, the Roman legions were familiar with the weapon.

 

[Picaro]

The audacity of Hannibal, Alexander and others is incredible. Their actions are not admirable, but their faith in themselves is extraordinary.

I'm impressed by their logistical capabilities given the technology levels they had. Moving large armies around so far from their bases of supply is not a job for idiots.

In the PBS show that is linked, they estimated the incredible amount of food needed just for the elephants and the extra animals and men needed to carry it all. Elephants were the secret weapon of the day--who could withstand them? But bringing them over the Alps?

Both the Romans and the Greeks developed very effective tactics against elephants; they were easy to rout when one knew what to do. Nobody else adopted them for very good reasons, not just how much they ate.

 

[Picaro]

The audacity of Hannibal, Alexander and others is incredible. Their actions are not admirable, but their faith in themselves is extraordinary.

I'm impressed by their logistical capabilities given the technology levels they had. Moving large armies around so far from their bases of supply is not a job for idiots.

In the PBS show that is linked, they estimated the incredible amount of food needed just for the elephants and the extra animals and men needed to carry it all. Elephants were the secret weapon of the day--who could withstand them? But bringing them over the Alps?

Elephants were antiquity's answer to the modern tank, they gave the armies that had them a nice edge.

I don't think they were a "secret" at all, just that they were found in Europe during the 3rd Century.

But I'm sure that in their expeditions to Africa and elsewhere, the Roman legions were familiar with the weapon.

The Greeks and Persians dealt with them in their eastern invasions.

 

[OldLady]

The audacity of Hannibal, Alexander and others is incredible. Their actions are not admirable, but their faith in themselves is extraordinary.

I'm impressed by their logistical capabilities given the technology levels they had. Moving large armies around so far from their bases of supply is not a job for idiots.

In the PBS show that is linked, they estimated the incredible amount of food needed just for the elephants and the extra animals and men needed to carry it all. Elephants were the secret weapon of the day--who could withstand them? But bringing them over the Alps?

Elephants were antiquity's answer to the modern tank, they gave the armies that had them a nice edge.

I don't think they were a "secret" at all, just that they were found in Europe during the 3rd Century.

But I'm sure that in their expeditions to Africa and elsewhere, the Roman legions were familiar with the weapon.

You're right--"secret" weapon is the wrong word. Super weapon is more like it.

 

[Picaro]

Fun Facts:
Famously, the Romans used a war elephant in the invasion of Britain, one ancient writer recording that "Caesar had one large elephant, which was equipped with armor and carried archers and slingers in its tower. When this unknown creature entered the river, the Britons and their horses fled and the Roman army crossed over,"[7] - although he may have confused this incident with the use of a similar war elephant in Claudius' final conquest of Britain. At least one elephantine skeleton with flint weapons that has been found in England was initially misidentified as these elephants, but later dating proved it to be a mammoth skeleton from the stone age.[8]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_war_elephants#cite_note-8

Roman war elephants - Wikipedia