johnwk

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See: Birthright citizenship is guaranteed in the US Constitution. Both Trump and DeSantis want it gone, and they'll need the court's help to do it.

Madison Hall writes:

“As granted by the 14th Amendment, which was ratified in 1868, anybody born in the United States is guaranteed citizenship. The right was affirmed thirty years later by the Supreme Court, which ruled that Wong Kim Ark was legally an American citizen after being born in the US, despite having Chinese-born parents who were barred from becoming citizens due to the Chinese Exclusion Act.”

Madison Hall ignores the qualifying condition stated in the 14th Amendment, i.e., ". . . and subject to the jurisdiction thereof . . . ". And she relies upon Wong Kim Ark which is not applicable to the question of citizenship being granted to a child born on American soil, to an illegal entrant foreign national.

The factors involved which led to the court's opinion in Wong were:

(1)Wong Kim Ark’s parents were in our country legally;

(2) had been settled in American for quite some time;

(3) the parents had a permanent domicile and residence in the United States;

(4) they were carrying on a lawful business;

(5) and the parents were not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the emperor of China at the time of Wong Kim Ark’s birth.

After the above facts were established by the Court, Justice Gray then stated with regard to Wong Kim Ark’s question of citizenship :

For the reasons above stated (which apparently in the judges' mind met the qualifying criteria, "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof"), the court was of the opinion that the question must be answered in the affirmative.


The simple truth is our Supreme Court has never, in its entire history, decided a case questioning whether or not a child born to an illegal entrant foreign national, while on American soil, is granted citizenship by the terms of the 1st Section of the 14th Amendment. And this is what both Trump and DeSantis are addressing.

Aside from that, one of the few times the Court did approach answering the qualifying condition, "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" was in the *Slaughterhouse Cases* 83 U.S. 36, 73 (1873) . The Court wrote “[t]he phrase, ‘subject to its jurisdiction’ was intended to exclude from its operation children of … citizens or subjects of foreign States born within the United States .”

And how does a foreign national become subject to the jurisdiction of the United States under which birthright citizenship would apply? By taking our nation's Oath of Allegiance.

See our Naturalization Oath of Allegiance to the United States of America


“I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.”

Also see *Elk v. Wilkins* (1884) in which our S.C. points out:

"The main object of the opening sentence of the 14th Amendment was ... to put it beyond doubt that all persons, white or black, and whether formerly slaves or not, born or naturalized in the United States, and owing no allegiance to any alien power, should be citizens of the United States ... The evident meaning of (the words, "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof") is, not merely subject in some respect or degree to the jurisdiction of the United States, but completely subject to their political jurisdiction, and owing them direct and immediate allegiance. ... Persons not thus subject to the jurisdiction of the United States at the time of birth cannot become so afterward, except by being naturalized..."

Finally, the best evidence regarding the question is to be found in the Congressional Record when the 14th Amendment was framed and debated.

John A. Bingham, considered the architect of the 14th Amendment's first section remarks on March 9th, 1866, during Congressional debates upon the intended meaning of “jurisdiction” in the following manner:

"I find no fault with the introductory clause [S 61 Bill], which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen…" LINK (middle column 1/3 down)

Later, May 30th, during the debates when framing the 14th amendment and after the question was repeatedly asked as to who is and who is not a citizen of the United States, Mr. TRUMBULL responds as follows:

The provision is, that “all persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.” That means “subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof.” . . . “What do we mean by “subject to the jurisdiction of the United States?” Not owing allegiance to anybody else. That is what it means.” LINK 1st column halfway down.

Mr. Trumbull later [same page] emphasizes in crystal clear language that: “It cannot be said of any Indian who owes allegiance, partial allegiance if you please, to some other Government that he is “subject to the jurisdiction of the United States”

Business Insider needs to clean up its act and end perpetuating a myth.


JWK
 
No one of significance is interested, other than Speaker McCarthy, who is lying about his interest.

Seem Business Insider was interested enough to publish a misleading article on the subject.

JWK

When a Republican Legislator demands a national ban on abortions, or a Democrat Legislator demands a total unregulated access to abortion, both are domestic enemies of Federalism, our Constitution’s plan, and need to be excoriated for the traitors they are in wanting to exercise authoritarian power over the states and people therein.
 
.

See: Birthright citizenship is guaranteed in the US Constitution. Both Trump and DeSantis want it gone, and they'll need the court's help to do it.

Madison Hall writes:

“As granted by the 14th Amendment, which was ratified in 1868, anybody born in the United States is guaranteed citizenship. The right was affirmed thirty years later by the Supreme Court, which ruled that Wong Kim Ark was legally an American citizen after being born in the US, despite having Chinese-born parents who were barred from becoming citizens due to the Chinese Exclusion Act.”

Madison Hall ignores the qualifying condition stated in the 14th Amendment, i.e., ". . . and subject to the jurisdiction thereof . . . ". And she relies upon Wong Kim Ark which is not applicable to the question of citizenship being granted to a child born on American soil, to an illegal entrant foreign national.

The factors involved which led to the court's opinion in Wong were:

(1)Wong Kim Ark’s parents were in our country legally;

(2) had been settled in American for quite some time;

(3) the parents had a permanent domicile and residence in the United States;

(4) they were carrying on a lawful business;

(5) and the parents were not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the emperor of China at the time of Wong Kim Ark’s birth.

After the above facts were established by the Court, Justice Gray then stated with regard to Wong Kim Ark’s question of citizenship :

For the reasons above stated (which apparently in the judges' mind met the qualifying criteria, "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof"), the court was of the opinion that the question must be answered in the affirmative.


The simple truth is our Supreme Court has never, in its entire history, decided a case questioning whether or not a child born to an illegal entrant foreign national, while on American soil, is granted citizenship by the terms of the 1st Section of the 14th Amendment. And this is what both Trump and DeSantis are addressing.

Aside from that, one of the few times the Court did approach answering the qualifying condition, "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" was in the *Slaughterhouse Cases* 83 U.S. 36, 73 (1873) . The Court wrote “[t]he phrase, ‘subject to its jurisdiction’ was intended to exclude from its operation children of … citizens or subjects of foreign States born within the United States .”

And how does a foreign national become subject to the jurisdiction of the United States under which birthright citizenship would apply? By taking our nation's Oath of Allegiance.

See our Naturalization Oath of Allegiance to the United States of America


“I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.”

Also see *Elk v. Wilkins* (1884) in which our S.C. points out:

"The main object of the opening sentence of the 14th Amendment was ... to put it beyond doubt that all persons, white or black, and whether formerly slaves or not, born or naturalized in the United States, and owing no allegiance to any alien power, should be citizens of the United States ... The evident meaning of (the words, "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof") is, not merely subject in some respect or degree to the jurisdiction of the United States, but completely subject to their political jurisdiction, and owing them direct and immediate allegiance. ... Persons not thus subject to the jurisdiction of the United States at the time of birth cannot become so afterward, except by being naturalized..."

Finally, the best evidence regarding the question is to be found in the Congressional Record when the 14th Amendment was framed and debated.

John A. Bingham, considered the architect of the 14th Amendment's first section remarks on March 9th, 1866, during Congressional debates upon the intended meaning of “jurisdiction” in the following manner:

"I find no fault with the introductory clause [S 61 Bill], which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen…" LINK (middle column 1/3 down)

Later, May 30th, during the debates when framing the 14th amendment and after the question was repeatedly asked as to who is and who is not a citizen of the United States, Mr. TRUMBULL responds as follows:

The provision is, that “all persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.” That means “subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof.” . . . “What do we mean by “subject to the jurisdiction of the United States?” Not owing allegiance to anybody else. That is what it means.” LINK 1st column halfway down.

Mr. Trumbull later [same page] emphasizes in crystal clear language that: “It cannot be said of any Indian who owes allegiance, partial allegiance if you please, to some other Government that he is “subject to the jurisdiction of the United States”

Business Insider needs to clean up its act and end perpetuating a myth.


JWK
This is stupid misleading. Everyone on US soil is under US jurisdiction. No other country's laws apply in the US.
.
 
This is stupid misleading. Everyone on US soil is under US jurisdiction. No other country's laws apply in the US.
.
Our Supreme Court does not think the qualifying wording "... and subject to the jurisdiction thereof..." is "stupid and/or misleading.


See Slaughterhouse Cases 83 U.S. 36, 73 (1873) and Elk v. Wilkins (1884) for what the Supreme Court has already stated regarding the meaning of ". . . and subject to the jurisdiction thereof . . . "

Also see the Congressional Record when the 14th Amendment was framed and debated. For example, Senator Howard addresses the meaning of "... and subject to the jurisdiction thereof..." and how it limits birthright citizenship.

"Mr. HOWARD: I now move to take up House joint resolution No. 127.
The motion was agreed to; and the Senate, as in Committee of the Whole, resumed the consideration of the joint resolution (H.R. No. 127) proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States.
The first amendment is to section one, declaring that all “persons born in the United States and Subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the States wherein they reside. I do not propose to say anything on that subject except that the question of citizenship has been fully discussed in this body as not to need any further elucidation, in my opinion. This amendment which I have offered is simply declaratory of what I regard as the law of the land already, that every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States. This has long been a great desideratum in the jurisprudence and legislation of this country.” LINK
 
Our Supreme Court does not think the qualifying wording "... and subject to the jurisdiction thereof..." is "stupid and/or misleading.


See Slaughterhouse Cases 83 U.S. 36, 73 (1873) and Elk v. Wilkins (1884) for what the Supreme Court has already stated regarding the meaning of ". . . and subject to the jurisdiction thereof . . . "

Also see the Congressional Record when the 14th Amendment was framed and debated. For example, Senator Howard addresses the meaning of "... and subject to the jurisdiction thereof..." and how it limits birthright citizenship.
You should read the statute for yourself.

Anyone except diplomats are subject to US jurisdiction ... illegal, tourist, foreign student etc.

Maybe you should also read what jurisdiction means in law.

US law is sovereign.
 
Maybe you should also read what jurisdiction means in law.
We are here talking about its meaning within the Fourteenth Amendment, and it excludes ". . . persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States . . . "
 

There is a reason johnwk is not asked by the legal profession to pontificate nonsense about citizenship​

Fourteenth Amendment

Fourteenth Amendment Explained

Section 1

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
 
Seem Business Insider was interested enough to publish a misleading article on the subject.

JWK

When a Republican Legislator demands a national ban on abortions, or a Democrat Legislator demands a total unregulated access to abortion, both are domestic enemies of Federalism, our Constitution’s plan, and need to be excoriated for the traitors they are in wanting to exercise authoritarian power over the states and people therein.
Business Insider Reveals the Treason of the Corporate Clique
 

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