Zone1 Eternal Life or Eternal Condemnation?

[07-07-07]

The Holy Bible teaches that there is one of two verdicts rendered at the end of one's life: Eternal Life or Eternal Condemnation. The choices you make throughout your life determine the verdict.

Daniel 12
[2] And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
[3] And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. (KJV)

John 5
[24] "Most assuredly, I [Jesus] say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
[25] Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.
[26] For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,
[27] and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.
[28] Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
[29] and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation..." (NKJV)

 

[BreezeWood]

The Holy Bible teaches that there is one of two verdicts rendered at the end of one's life: Eternal Life or Eternal Condemnation. The choices you make throughout your life determine the verdict.

might find a better source ...

what do you expect from a book written by crucifiers using their madeup religion of servitude and denial to persuade the innocent to join them in their charade against all things heavenly.

 

[presonorek]

Is there a discussion?

 

[Red Front]

The Holy Bible teaches that there is one of two verdicts rendered at the end of one's life: Eternal Life or Eternal Condemnation. The choices you make throughout your life determine the verdict.

Daniel 12
[2] And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
[3] And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. (KJV)

John 5
[24] "Most assuredly, I [Jesus] say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
[25] Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.
[26] For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,
[27] and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.
[28] Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
[29] and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation..." (NKJV)

The Hebrew Bible, depicts death primarily as a state of unconsciousness or greatly diminished awareness, rather than as a vibrant existence in heaven or hell as understood in Christianity.

1. Sheol as the Primary Destination: The most common depiction of the afterlife in the Hebrew Bible is "Sheol." Sheol is depicted as a shadowy realm beneath the earth where all, regardless of their moral actions in life, come to reside. It's not presented as a place of active reward or punishment but more of a quiet, neutral domain. This absence of differentiation between the righteous and wicked, and the general portrayal of Sheol, suggests a state of diminished consciousness or even unconsciousness.
2. Ecclesiastes on the State of the Dead: The book of Ecclesiastes (9:5) clearly states, "For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten." This passage strongly emphasizes the notion of non-awareness in death.
3. Lack of Active Worship After Death: The Hebrew Bible suggests that the dead aren't in a position to actively engage with the Divine. Psalm 115:17 proclaims, "The dead do not praise the Lord, nor do any that go down into silence." If the dead were in a heightened state of consciousness in a heaven or hell as you suggest, one would expect them to be very much engaged in praising or lamenting, respectively.
4. Hints of Resurrection: While it's true that there are glimpses of resurrection hope, such as in Daniel 12:2, this is not the dominant theme regarding the afterlife in the Hebrew Bible. Moreover, even this hope doesn't necessarily equate to the Christian concepts of heaven and hell. It speaks more to a future earthly restoration than to eternal, conscious bliss in another dimension or torment in hell.
5. Development Over Time: It's essential to recognize that the Hebrew Bible consists of texts spanning centuries. The conception of the afterlife evolved over this period. By and large, the prevalent view across these texts suggests a muted existence in death, rather than the active consciousness in distinct realms of reward and punishment.

Late Second Temple Judaism and Christianity were influenced by Hellenistic thought, including Platonism. That's mostly where the dualistic view of human nature and the afterlife comes from, not the Hebrew Bible.

It's our behavior, the way we live, that determines the state of our souls, not converting to any particular religion. That's the ancient Israelite view of "salvation". It's mostly a physical or worldly salvation. Death is mostly left alone, as a mystery. It's nature isn't really discussed much in the Hebrew Bible.

 

[07-07-07]

Is there a discussion?

Yes, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, i.e., the Godhead, gave all of their love to the human race by sending Jesus (the Son) to become our sacrificial offering.

 

[Red Front]

Yes, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, i.e., the Godhead, gave all of their love to the human race by sending Jesus (the Son) to become our sacrificial offering.

Why would he have to do that? You're not making any sense. There are many religions and cultures, how do you figure that demanding everyone convert to Christianity is a loving divine requirement and policy? If anything that ensures more people burn in hell for all eternity. You make a lot of unnecessary assumptions as a Christian.

 

[07-07-07]

Why would he have to do that?

Romans 6
[23] For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (KJV)

You're not making any sense. There are many religions and cultures, how do you figure that demanding everyone convert to Christianity is a loving divine requirement and policy?

There are many religions, but only two roads in life, one that leads to Heaven and one that leads to hell; the latter is a broad one that many travel, by choice.

If anything that ensures more people burn in hell for all eternity. You make a lot of unnecessary assumptions as a Christian.

Choices have consequences. It's time to reason with God.

Isaiah 1
[18] Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. (KJV)

Ezekiel 33
[11] ...As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die... (KJV)

 

[Woodznutz]

There's more to it than what has been discussed so far.

 

[Woodznutz]

The Holy Bible teaches that there is one of two verdicts rendered at the end of one's life: Eternal Life or Eternal Condemnation. The choices you make throughout your life determine the verdict.

The choice you make during the White Throne judgment period determines the verdict.

 

[07-07-07]

The choice you make during the White Throne judgment period determines the verdict.

No, it's judgement day at the Great White Throne. People have to make their crooked ways straight in this life — and only Jesus can make that happen through His grace.

Revelation 20
[11] And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

 

[Woodznutz]

No, it's judgement day at the Great White Throne. People have to make their crooked ways straight in this life — and only Jesus can make that happen through His grace.

Revelation 20
[11] And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

That would mean that all sins are unforgiveable if not repented of during one's lifetime and would negate Christ's statement that only those drawn by God the Father can come to him. It also contradicts the spring and fall harvest periods; the spring being the church, the fall the great harvest during Christ's millennial rule.
It also contradicts the resurrection of Israel in the 'valley of dry bones'.

 

[presonorek]

Christ said it is finished. If so, why isn’t it finished? I wouldn’t worry about this heaven and hell stuff too much. God can do whatever He wants no matter how many or what kind of prayers you pray. God doesn’t owe you anything contrary to what many false doctrines out there claim. God is not obligated to grant your pleadings. If so, everybody would win the lottery and nobody would be sick.

 

[07-07-07]

Christ said it is finished. If so, why isn’t it finished?

The plan of Salvation is finished, not that He finished our duties to repent and obey.

I wouldn’t worry about this heaven and hell stuff too much.

Hell is a horrible place, so that should worry every sinner.

 

[presonorek]

The plan of Salvation is finished, not that He finished our duties to repent and obey.

Hell is a horrible place, so that should worry every sinner.

Yes but God can send me there against my will. I don’t get to tell God what to do. If you think I can then you think He is not a god. Gods are omnipotent. A mortal can’t tell a god what to do. That’s pure silly talk.

Only a delusional idiot thinks he can control God.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

The Holy Bible teaches that there is one of two verdicts rendered at the end of one's life: Eternal Life or Eternal Condemnation

It's eternal life or DEATH.

"The wages of sin is DEATH, but the gift of God is eternal life"

 

[BreezeWood]

The Holy Bible teaches that there is one of two verdicts rendered at the end of one's life: Eternal Life or Eternal Condemnation. The choices you make throughout your life determine the verdict.

It's eternal life or DEATH.

"The wages of sin is DEATH, but the gift of God is eternal life"

so says the dead person walking .... the christian sinner.

(or) - the third is a trial - observing from the heavens, given a 2nd chance without the ability to intervene and see if your spirit would be any different a second time around or be the same ... if you feel you've been here before - stop sinning - could be your last chance.

 

[07-07-07]

It's eternal life or DEATH.

"The wages of sin is DEATH, but the gift of God is eternal life"

Yes, an eternal living death in hell.

 

[Woodznutz]

Yes, an eternal living death in hell.

Eternal life in torment isn't death.
Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

 

[Woodznutz]

Christ said it is finished. If so, why isn’t it finished?

The old covenant was finished.

 

[07-07-07]

Eternal life in torment isn't death.
Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Here is Jesus speaking. This man who went to hell was in torment and wanted relief.

Luke 16
[19] There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
[20] And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
[21] And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
[22] And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
[23] And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
[24] And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
[25] But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
[26] And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
[27] Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
[28] For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
[29] Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
[30] And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
[31] And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.