Zone1 Feasibility of US-Canada Unification?

[jwoodie]

I am posting this is the Clean Debate Zone in order to avoid irrelevant emotional and illogical responses. I hope the mods will help out.

1. Economic Union. It seems that Canada's economy is so intertwined with the US economy that maintaining separate rules for each country is an unnecessary and counterproductive distinction.

2. Military Union. It seems that maintaining separate military establishments is inefficient and inequitable. By necessity, the US is forced to provide the same level of defense for Canada that it provides for its own States.

3. Political Union. It seems that Canada could retain its identity and customs under the US State/Federal system, particularly if Constitutional Amendment addressed this issue.

4. Other Issues. The idea of Canada becoming the largest state of the USA might create some unintended political consequences. With over 40 million residents, it would have an outsized influence on federal elections. In addition, Quebec would probably be opposed to any union that did not preserve the special privileges it now enjoys from the rest of Canada. (On the other hand, an isolated Quebec would quickly descend into third-world status.)

One possible scenario in which unification might become feasible would be for Canada to be represented by two or more States. The Province of Ontario has about 15 million people, and Quebec has about 9 million, so let's start with them as States. The Maritime Provinces have about 2.5 million, so they could decide to become part of Quebec, Maine and/or Greenland. On the West Coast, British Columbia could join up with Washington, Alaska or Hawaii. That leaves the Prairie Provinces of Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba. They are the heartland of Canada and could join up with their sister States across their southern borders. The Northern Territories could associate with Greenland, creating a solid wall of defense for North America.

I know this sounds outlandish, but maybe we could join in this intellectual exercise and leave our emotional outbursts at the door.

 

[1srelluc]

But what is to be done with the Qubeckers?

 

[Failzero]

Independence for French Canadien folks would have to be baked in

 

[Manonthestreet]

Is the point of this to increase lib voters......Let Canada be Canada

 

[jwoodie]

Is the point of this to increase lib voters......Let Canada be Canada

Given a taste of freedom and opportunity, they might change their minds.

 

[gipper]

I am posting this is the Clean Debate Zone in order to avoid irrelevant emotional and illogical responses. I hope the mods will help out.

1. Economic Union. It seems that Canada's economy is so intertwined with the US economy that maintaining separate rules for each country is an unnecessary and counterproductive distinction.

2. Military Union. It seems that maintaining separate military establishments is inefficient and inequitable. By necessity, the US is forced to provide the same level of defense for Canada that it provides for its own States.

3. Political Union. It seems that Canada could retain its identity and customs under the US State/Federal system, particularly if Constitutional Amendment addressed this issue.

4. Other Issues. The idea of Canada becoming the largest state of the USA might create some unintended political consequences. With over 40 million residents, it would have an outsized influence on federal elections. In addition, Quebec would probably be opposed to any union that did not preserve the special privileges it now enjoys from the rest of Canada. (On the other hand, an isolated Quebec would quickly descend into third-world status.)

One possible scenario in which unification might become feasible would be for Canada to be represented by two or more States. The Province of Ontario has about 15 million people, and Quebec has about 9 million, so let's start with them as States. The Maritime Provinces have about 2.5 million, so they could decide to become part of Quebec, Maine and/or Greenland. On the West Coast, British Columbia could join up with Washington, Alaska or Hawaii. That leaves the Prairie Provinces of Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba. They are the heartland of Canada and could join up with their sister States across their southern borders. The Northern Territories could associate with Greenland, creating a solid wall of defense for North America.

I know this sounds outlandish, but maybe we could join in this intellectual exercise and leave our emotional outbursts at the door.

I doubt Canadians want to join this fucked up country.

 

[Zincwarrior]

I doubt Canadians want to join this fucked up country.

Canada would fight and invoke NATO TO HELP.

 

[candycorn]

I am posting this is the Clean Debate Zone in order to avoid irrelevant emotional and illogical responses. I hope the mods will help out.

1. Economic Union. It seems that Canada's economy is so intertwined with the US economy that maintaining separate rules for each country is an unnecessary and counterproductive distinction.

2. Military Union. It seems that maintaining separate military establishments is inefficient and inequitable. By necessity, the US is forced to provide the same level of defense for Canada that it provides for its own States.

3. Political Union. It seems that Canada could retain its identity and customs under the US State/Federal system, particularly if Constitutional Amendment addressed this issue.

4. Other Issues. The idea of Canada becoming the largest state of the USA might create some unintended political consequences. With over 40 million residents, it would have an outsized influence on federal elections. In addition, Quebec would probably be opposed to any union that did not preserve the special privileges it now enjoys from the rest of Canada. (On the other hand, an isolated Quebec would quickly descend into third-world status.)

One possible scenario in which unification might become feasible would be for Canada to be represented by two or more States. The Province of Ontario has about 15 million people, and Quebec has about 9 million, so let's start with them as States. The Maritime Provinces have about 2.5 million, so they could decide to become part of Quebec, Maine and/or Greenland. On the West Coast, British Columbia could join up with Washington, Alaska or Hawaii. That leaves the Prairie Provinces of Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba. They are the heartland of Canada and could join up with their sister States across their southern borders. The Northern Territories could associate with Greenland, creating a solid wall of defense for North America.

I know this sounds outlandish, but maybe we could join in this intellectual exercise and leave our emotional outbursts at the door.

Canada would be wise to steer clear of uniting with such an unstable nation.

 

[that's not a macchiato]

Interesting idea but I don't know if Canada can handle the addition of 50 new provinces.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Is the point of this to increase lib voters......Let Canada be Canada

I've said it here before, Trudeau lost the popular vote to the Conservatives in the last elections so Canada isn't entirely a guaranteed left-wing nation and with the expansion of the S.I.C, heavy taxes, unaccountable leaders at all levels, record homelessness with more to follow,dying in Emergency Rooms, Canadians are not feeling very content at the moment.

It isn't necessary a con vs lib debate, it is the construct of our system from either party that has stifled innovation and self determination at the behest of low performing career government thieves. We have people trying to expose the bad apples in our police apparatuses, but they can't expose the icing out of people from their careers, the control of the courts and healthcare and choosing who receives good care and who doesn't. That is the level of evil being imposed here with little exposure. I am one of the few who has the details and receipts and have shared them with American authorities (among others).

Furthermore, as time rolled on and these new Americans became familiar with a Republic, as I have without even having lived in the U.S; many would shift their ideological leanings almost certainly.

There would be immense resistance to becoming a 51st state both here and in the U.K from the Establishment Many are offended by the notion but most citizens know very little about America, they just know what media presents to them. The E.U was formed from many independent nations and it worked well for them, the problem is the Old Guard KNOW that they would lose their central control.

We are after all still the descendants of British subjects and monarchies. I think after the IPSOS poll came out that showed that 43% of adults under 30 would accept being American if given citizenship and living with U.S dollars, the media started to get worried. They realized that Trump could essentially gain young Canadian votes through tariffs and they realize now that if Trump is truly serious and patient enough about bringing industries back to America, with a strong message to Americans; it would impact the next generation of Canadians immensely. We already make $25k less than Americans and I believe $20k less than Aussies. I mean, how??!?

There was also a poll of the U,K that only 40% of young adults were proud to be British. What a shift from say the 70s or 80s, our centralized systems that crush individual rights and independence isn't so popular now that citizens have the internet, can see social media and compare their existence to American, Japanese or even Chinese citizens lives. Hell, at least in China even if one made half of what they did in their country, their cost of living might be 30% of the costs, especially if they have a husband or wife and if they make a good living, they would be living a great life The Chinese for all their faults despise caste systems, they find them immensely offensive.

Thus, the only way Canada would agree to become a U.S state would be through a referendum of Canadians directly and guarantees to citizens that they would have protection of the U.S Constitution (which is light years more protective than the Charter which the covert police in Canada spit on and laugh at), a dollar for dollar translation to U.S funds from Canadian funds, and, maybe a big sweetener for every citizen over age 18, similar to the premise I posted on here about purchasing Greenland. Freedom and money talk.

That is a tall order to convince Canadians, especially of those older than 50 or 60 who lived through better times.

The most sure route would take more time, but, it would be to more freely offer citizenship to Canadians and offer them immediate Constitutional protections if they moved to America. You could then rally to encourage Canadians to consider an economic relationship and over time statehood as you would have an additional number of millions of Canadians and they would probably be 80% Conservatives/Libertarians. You'd almost certainly take a large swath of ambitious citizens from Alberta, Saskatchewan and Ontario in particular.

That would be long game which Trump wouldn't be around to see the ultimate fruition of but he would get some of the most talent and ambitious Canadians for the moment and in the future he would be viewed as the visionary who called this potential for the first time in 2025.

Otherwise, and I'm not totally convinced that Trump isn't already in this mode of calculation already; he would have to really stick to his guns about tariffs and try and squeeze Canada. We would retaliate for certain. it is just that we would feel by far the greater impact just as China feels the far greater effect of tariffs against since they export far more to the U.S and the U.S is the great consumer economy.

Who knows if this is his plan, he tried it last time for a year and we retaliated then as well. I did find it interesting that Trump is securing rare minerals from Ukraine, that would be a boon for the U.S and decrease their reliance on Canadian minerals. Maybe it's just coincidence, but with all his talk about "not needing anything from Canada (a bit of a stretch at the moment as we export so much to you)"...who knows what he is considering in the big picture?

 

[Moonglow]

I am posting this is the Clean Debate Zone in order to avoid irrelevant emotional and illogical responses. I hope the mods will help out.

1. Economic Union. It seems that Canada's economy is so intertwined with the US economy that maintaining separate rules for each country is an unnecessary and counterproductive distinction.

2. Military Union. It seems that maintaining separate military establishments is inefficient and inequitable. By necessity, the US is forced to provide the same level of defense for Canada that it provides for its own States.

3. Political Union. It seems that Canada could retain its identity and customs under the US State/Federal system, particularly if Constitutional Amendment addressed this issue.

4. Other Issues. The idea of Canada becoming the largest state of the USA might create some unintended political consequences. With over 40 million residents, it would have an outsized influence on federal elections. In addition, Quebec would probably be opposed to any union that did not preserve the special privileges it now enjoys from the rest of Canada. (On the other hand, an isolated Quebec would quickly descend into third-world status.)

One possible scenario in which unification might become feasible would be for Canada to be represented by two or more States. The Province of Ontario has about 15 million people, and Quebec has about 9 million, so let's start with them as States. The Maritime Provinces have about 2.5 million, so they could decide to become part of Quebec, Maine and/or Greenland. On the West Coast, British Columbia could join up with Washington, Alaska or Hawaii. That leaves the Prairie Provinces of Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba. They are the heartland of Canada and could join up with their sister States across their southern borders. The Northern Territories could associate with Greenland, creating a solid wall of defense for North America.

I know this sounds outlandish, but maybe we could join in this intellectual exercise and leave our emotional outbursts at the door.

We is broke and can't afford it.

 

[Moonglow]

I doubt Canadians want to join this fucked up country.

Especially the French.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Especially the French.

The irony of this is that we viewed the French as traitors in the 1990s when during the referendum for sovereignty Quebec reached out to Clinton and offered to join America. This is a true story. Amazingly, the U.S stayed quiet for a few days, maybe not knowing what to say or perhaps there were a few in his administration who said "hmm, that might not be a bad idea". Ultimately though, Clinton released a message to the effect "our Canada includes Quebec" but not aggressively weighing in on the vote.

Even when he was here speaking to our Parliament, he remained neutral telling Canadians it is up to us to decide of course. It was an interesting time.

The Separatists barely lost the referendum and I'm sure even if they had won that Canada would have made it near impossible to leave. I remember complaining at that time and there were even cruel jokes as Bouchard I think his name was, had to undergo a leg amputation and people would joke about the "separation". Some in media in Montreal I believed made reference to his separation attempt and the separation of his leg. Back then Montreal media was insane, especially against the Canadiens hockey team, they'd make fun of players wives if they didn't like a player.

Man those were harsh days, but Quebec hated the Anglophones so much they would rather had been American than French-Canadian.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Interesting idea but I don't know if Canada can handle the addition of 50 new provinces.

Would YOU want to join Mississippi?

 

[jwoodie]

But what is to be done with the Qubeckers?

The US doesn't have an official language, so they can keep speaking pidgin French.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Now the E.U is telling Canada, "instead of joining America, come join the E.U"! LOL.

That would be disasterous for Canada. We have a free trade agreement with Europe and they don't buy any of our stuff now as it is. Even in Canada we don't trade freely ffs.

 

[jwoodie]

We are after all still the descendants of British subjects and monarchies.

So are we. The difference is that America is an idea, not just a former colony.

 

[1srelluc]

The US doesn't have an official language, so they can keep speaking pidgin French.

I had more of a cleansing in mind.....Every BS notion they have has a french name attached to it. They would have to go.

 

[jwoodie]

I had more of a cleansing in mind.....Every BS notion they have has a french name attached to it. They would have to go.

OK, let's admit Alberta and let the rest of the provinces stew in their own bouillabaisse.

 

[konradv]

I am posting this is the Clean Debate Zone in order to avoid irrelevant emotional and illogical responses. I hope the mods will help out.

1. Economic Union. It seems that Canada's economy is so intertwined with the US economy that maintaining separate rules for each country is an unnecessary and counterproductive distinction.

2. Military Union. It seems that maintaining separate military establishments is inefficient and inequitable. By necessity, the US is forced to provide the same level of defense for Canada that it provides for its own States.

3. Political Union. It seems that Canada could retain its identity and customs under the US State/Federal system, particularly if Constitutional Amendment addressed this issue.

4. Other Issues. The idea of Canada becoming the largest state of the USA might create some unintended political consequences. With over 40 million residents, it would have an outsized influence on federal elections. In addition, Quebec would probably be opposed to any union that did not preserve the special privileges it now enjoys from the rest of Canada. (On the other hand, an isolated Quebec would quickly descend into third-world status.)

One possible scenario in which unification might become feasible would be for Canada to be represented by two or more States. The Province of Ontario has about 15 million people, and Quebec has about 9 million, so let's start with them as States. The Maritime Provinces have about 2.5 million, so they could decide to become part of Quebec, Maine and/or Greenland. On the West Coast, British Columbia could join up with Washington, Alaska or Hawaii. That leaves the Prairie Provinces of Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba. They are the heartland of Canada and could join up with their sister States across their southern borders. The Northern Territories could associate with Greenland, creating a solid wall of defense for North America.

I know this sounds outlandish, but maybe we could join in this intellectual exercise and leave our emotional outbursts at the door.

If it were a possibility, they’d be getting gypped as one state. More like 5 or 6.