For liberallogic: Bible Topics

[Nienna]

every time a man orgasms, he has the potential to impregnate a woman. Those are living cells, therefore, if they are not directed towards reproduction, they are being wasted and potential life is being destroyed.

Orgasm is not only for men. Women orgasm, too. For longer periods. On TWO places on her body. Maybe multiple times during one round of sex. Female orgasm has no causal relationship with impregnation. It is pure pleasure.

Besides, a man does not impregnate a woman EVERY time he orgasms. God is in control of when a human being is created. This idea probably came from the dude who was in trouble for "spilling his seed on the ground" instead of inside the woman. (Dang, I can't remember that dude's name!) But that was a specific instance, in which this guy was responsible for impregnating this woman, so that she could have offspring to provide for her. He didn't want to impregnate her because the child wouldn't bear his name. It wasn't the wasting of the "seed" that was wrong, but the man's refusing to give the woman offspring to provide for her.

 

[dmp]

It wasn't the wasting of the "seed" that was wrong, but the man's refusing to give the woman offspring to provide for her.

Id Est, 'disobediance'.

 

[Nienna]

To me, the Catholic church's teachings here make perfect sense in a logical way. If God gives a man sperm and a woman an egg and allows them to work together to form a baby, then that's the only time they should have sex. If that wasn't the case, then God could've given us an on/off switch for ejaculation (on when you want to impregnate, off when you only want pleasure). The fact that sperm is produced with every orgasm indicates the potential for reproduction, therefore, it should only be used for that purpose. Masturbating is only stimulating yourself in complete opposition to this principle-- God's intention -- fertilization. Plus, sperm is living; so technically if you do not intend for it to reach the egg, then you are intentionally killing cells that have the potential to create a newborn baby.

God not only gave a man sperm, but erotic urges. Wives don't only possess eggs, but also the desire to bond. ALL these things were created by God: cells, urges, and bonding. ALL are good. ALL of these things should be taken into consideration when engaging in sex, because ALL are a part of sex.

 

[dmp]

God not only gave a man sperm, but erotic urges. Wives don't only possess eggs, but also the desire to bond. ALL these things were created by God: cells, urges, and bonding. ALL are good.

Not just good, essential.

 

[Nienna]

Its fun huh? Good to know. Im sure ill find out someday:-D

VERY fun. Keep looking forward. It's worth the wait!

 

[Nienna]

Id Est, 'disobediance'.

Exactly! And lack of compassion for the woman.

 

[liberalogic]

Trust me, I don't agree with it. I'd be a hypocrite if I said that. My personal views on sex are far to the left. I am simply explaining what I learned as a catholic when I went to CCD (that's what we called the classes that we took once a week-- for those of us in public schools) and when I went to learn about being confirmed. I am also saying that while I STRONGLY disagree with them, I can see the rationale behind what I was taught. And as I used the abortion issue before: I see where the pro-life people are coming from-- those cells have the ability to grow into a human being. I understand that, but I disagree because I think a woman's choice is more important (btw- this isn't the issue at hand, so please no one attack on that right now). It's the same thing with sex; I understand where the catholic church was coming from, but I disagree and choose to willingly act otherwise.

I wanna know how this is possible. I really do. And I also want to know how to control a sneeze or a hiccup.

You tell me your views differ but you keep explaining how it makes sense to you. Either you believe them or you don't.

I really hope your joking here. The Bible (oops) tells us that sex is an obligation, (for lack of a better word), to our partner. And children are NOT mentioned.
I could take this in so many directions but I think I'll just stick with this for the moment.
When I was trying to get pregnant, I wondered why He didn't make one of my toenails turn green when I was fertile so I would know when the time was right. We kept missing. It wasn't the trying, it was the disappointment every time I hadn't gotten pregnant.

Besides, what happens when the switch malfunctions?
What happens if a man is sterile? Is he doomed to a sexless life because he can't impregnate his wife???
Yeah, well eggs are discharged from a woman's body, monthly, if they aren't fertilized. How are you going to stop that?

"The median age of menarche (beginning of menstruation) is about 12 in our society. The median age of menopause (the point at which a woman has not had a period for one year) is about 51. So a woman can expect to menstruate for 39-40 years."
http://www.umich.edu/~iinet/iisite/media/01-11-05-DetroitFreePress-Harlow.htm

 

[Nienna]

LL, what think you about my post on women's "inferiority" in the Bible?

 

[liberalogic]

Ok, but when you look at Adam and Eve you see the precedent for all men and women. By God saying that Adam will be her master, I need nothing else to delineate the distinction of superiority. Regardless of responsibilities, God made that claim very clearly in the Bible. And why can't women become priests in catholicism? The tradition of male superiority extended itself throughout history-- it is only fitting that it roots back to the creation of civilization in Genesis.

Female Subjugation

The curse of Eve...I think this is one of the most interesting verses in the Bible. I have spent a lot of time thinking about it.

In discussing the subject of female subjugation, we first have to note that, in the Bible, it is not ALL women who are subjugated to ALL men. It is only wives who are put under their husbands.

It is clear that women have equal WORTH to men. "So God created man in His image; in the image of God He created him, male and female, He created them." (Gen 1:27) And again, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3:28). Throughout the Bible, women have held positions of honor and even of authority. For instance, Deborah was a judge of Israel. Men and women both prophesied. Jesus appeared first to women when he rose from the dead.

Husbands and Wives Part of God's curse on Eve was "Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you." (Gen 3:16b) The curse came true, of course. All around us, we hear of women desiring greater intimacy with their husbands, but the husbands seem to have their own agenda: bringing home the bacon, time with the guys, sports, etc. (Darin, dear, I'm not talking about YOU! ) This can be directly related to Adam's curse, "Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it, all the days of your life" (Gen 3:17b).

In the Garden, before sin entered the world, Adam had nothing to do but oversee some peaceful animals, explore, and pick fruit whenever he was hungry. Everything was very good and easy, except that Adam was lonely. Ladies, we've all known men who think they are God's gift to women. But the truth is, women are God's gift to men. Eve was specially created to be a companion and a partner to Adam, to fill his loneliness. She was made from a rib, not a cranial plate, nor a metatarsal. Not above or below, but beside her husband. Then they screwed it all up.

After they sinned, they were punished. Adam had a new job. He now had to provide. He had to focus on survival; he didn't have time for all the long walks, devoting all his attention to his wife. He had to work hard to keep them alive. That naturally left Eve in a lurch. She was created to be Adam's companion, and she still possessed the desire to be with him, to be intimate. Thus her unfulfilled "desire for [her] husband."

But, Adam was tasked with providing sustenance for his family. With greater responsibility comes greater authority. If Adam had to provide for Eve, it only makes sense that she should help him in any way she could. Otherwise, she would be hindering the continuation of her own life. So, instead of sitting back and admiring Adam's creativity in naming animals, she had to fetch him some water. Adam was busy, providing for her. I really have to point out that Adam wasn't told to sit under a tree and order Eve to hoe faster. HE was the one who was told to hoe. The ONLY reason he had greater authority was because he had greater responsibility. Nowhere does God excuse a man's selfishness.

So the inequality in authority between a husband and a wife (NOT all men and all women) stems directly from the inequality of responsibility. It is not because women are WORTH less than men in the eyes of God.

 

[dmp]

Ok, but when you look at Adam and Eve you see the precedent for all men and women. By God saying that Adam will be her master, I need nothing else to delineate the distinction of superiority. Regardless of responsibilities, God made that claim very clearly in the Bible. And why can't women become priests in catholicism? The tradition of male superiority extended itself throughout history-- it is only fitting that it roots back to the creation of civilization in Genesis.

But you can't take one aspect of God and husbands and wives and suppose that's the end-all.

Try reading the NEW testament. I'm not sure how you can read what mom4 posted and still feel the way you do - of course, 10 minutes on USMB may NOT be long enough 'teaching' to un-do what was done to you for years.

:-/

 

[Nienna]

Ok, but when you look at Adam and Eve you see the precedent for all men and women. By God saying that Adam will be her master, I need nothing else to delineate the distinction of superiority.

Agreed. Sort of. Agreed that it is a precedent. I wouldn't use the word "superiority," but "authority." And, the fact that this is specific to the husband/wife relationship; it does not apply to ALL men and women. It is a hierarchy of responsiblity within a family.

Regardless of responsibilities, God made that claim very clearly in the Bible. And why can't women become priests in catholicism? The tradition of male superiority extended itself throughout history-- it is only fitting that it roots back to the creation of civilization in Genesis.

I can't answer for Catholicism. I disagree with some of its practices.

It became a tradition throughout history 1)because sin must be punished, and 2) because men have abused their authority throughout history. As Darin said, look at the NT. Wives must submit and respect, but husbands are to love sacrificially. Men throughout history stopped at "Wives, submit to your husbands," instead of reading on and taking to heart "Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church." This is the result of man's sin, not the result of God's plan.

 

[archangel]

Orgasm is not only for men. Women orgasm, too. For longer periods. On TWO places on her body. Maybe multiple times during one round of sex. Female orgasm has no causal relationship with impregnation. It is pure pleasure.

Besides, a man does not impregnate a woman EVERY time he orgasms. God is in control of when a human being is created. This idea probably came from the dude who was in trouble for "spilling his seed on the ground" instead of inside the woman. (Dang, I can't remember that dude's name!) But that was a specific instance, in which this guy was responsible for impregnating this woman, so that she could have offspring to provide for her. He didn't want to impregnate her because the child wouldn't bear his name. It wasn't the wasting of the "seed" that was wrong, but the man's refusing to give the woman offspring to provide for her.

I may learn something in here after all..I am familiar with one point of female orgasim...but where the heck is number two...as for non casual...well hey is there not the point deep inside the uterus that begins to vibrate during orgasim causing the sperm to flow toward the egg? At least that was what I was taught in Biology 101 w/lab! :clap1:

 

[dmp]

I may learn something in here after all..I am familiar with one point of female orgasim...but where the heck is number two...as for non casual...well hey is there not the point deep inside the uterus that begins to vibrate during orgasim causing the sperm to flow toward the egg? At least that was what I was taught in Biology 101 w/lab! :clap1:

Have you ever even SPOKEN to a woman without having to give your credit card number?




:

Maybe she's meaning clitorial stimulation and the g-spot?

 

[archangel]

Have you ever even SPOKEN to a woman without having to give your credit card number?




:

Maybe she's meaning clitorial stimulation and the g-spot?

Are you a girl? I was asking a girl for the answer..a little tongue in cheek...and no I have never used a CC or anything else(monetary wise) to seduce a woman...Just because I live in Nevada does not make one a customer...duh!

 

[Nienna]

I may learn something in here after all..I am familiar with one point of female orgasim...but where the heck is number two

The clitoris, obviously (I hope!), but, also there are receptors in the vagina that are incredibly sensitive to pressure. Clitoris, brain, and vagina all work together to achieve the female orgasm.

...as for non casual...well hey is there not the point deep inside the uterus that begins to vibrate during orgasim causing the sperm to flow toward the egg? At least that was what I was taught in Biology 101 w/lab! :clap1:

Muscular pulsations in the vagina and uterus can aid the sperm in reaching the point of fertilization. However, female orgasm is not necessary for impregnation.

 

[dmp]

Are you a girl? I was asking a girl for the answer..a little tongue in cheek...and no I have never used a CC or anything else(monetary wise) to seduce a woman...Just because I live in Nevada does not make one a customer...duh!

Yeah - I'm a girl.

 

[archangel]

The clitoris, obviously (I hope!), but, also there are receptors in the vagina that are incredibly sensitive to pressure. Clitoris, brain, and vagina all work together to achieve the female orgasm.

Muscular pulsations in the vagina and uterus can aid the sperm in reaching the point of fertilization. However, female orgasm is not necessary for impregnation.

Just havin' some fun...but there still is a casual connection...No?

 

[archangel]

Yeah - I'm a girl.

:huh: :shocked: Metro guy...sex change op...or just a pullin' my leg?

 

[archangel]

:huh: :shocked: Metro guy...sex change op...or just a pullin' my leg?

"Quick draw Mc Graw"...or "Speedy Gonzales" here...

 

[dmp]

:huh: :shocked: Metro guy...sex change op...or just a pullin' my leg?

You don't find me...attractive??