Greece’s Economy Is a Lesson for Republicans in the U.S.

[bripat9643]

It's not what you think it is

Greece is a faraway country with an economy roughly the size of greater Miami, so America has very little direct stake in its ongoing disaster. To the extent that Greece matters to us, it’s mainly about geopolitics: By poisoning relations among Europe’s democracies, the Greek crisis risks depriving the United States of crucial allies.

But Greece has nonetheless played an outsized role in U.S. political debate, as a symbol of the terrible things that will supposedly happen — any day now — unless we stop helping the less fortunate and printing money to fight unemployment. And Greece does indeed offer important lessons to the rest of us. But they’re not the lessons you think, and the people most likely to deliver a Greek-style economic disaster here in America are the very people who love to use Greece as a boogeyman.

To understand the real lessons of Greece, you need to be aware of two crucial points.

Paul Krugman[/paste:font]
Macroeconomics, trade, health care, social policy and politics.

• Ending Greece’s BleedingJUL 5
• Europe’s Many Economic DisastersJUL 3
• Greece Over the BrinkJUN 29
• Hooray for ObamacareJUN 25
• Slavery’s Long ShadowJUN 22

See More »

The first is that the “We’re Greece!” crowd has a truly remarkable track record when it comes to economic forecasting: They’ve been wrong about everything, year after year, but refuse to learn from their mistakes. The people now saying that Greece offers an object lesson in the dangers of government debt, and that America is headed down the same road, are the same people who predicted soaring interest rates and runaway inflation in 2010; then, when it didn’t happen, they predicted soaring rates and runaway inflation in 2011; then, well, you get the picture.

The second is that the story you’ve heard about Greece — that it borrowed too much, and its excessive debt led to the current crisis — is seriously incomplete. Greece did indeed run up too much debt (with a lot of help from irresponsible lenders). But its debt, while high, wasn’t that high by historical standards. What turned Greek debt troubles into catastrophe was Greece’s inability, thanks to the euro, to do what countries with large debts usually do: impose fiscal austerity, yes, but offset it with easy money.

Consider Greece’s situation at the end of 2009, when its debt crisis burst into the open. At that point Greek government debt was near 130 percent of gross domestic product, which is definitely a big number. But it’s by no means unprecedented. As it happens, Greece’s debt ratio in 2009 was about the same as America’s in 1946, just after the war. And Britain’s debt ratio in 1946 was twice as high.

Today, however, Greek debt is over 170 percent of G.D.P. and still rising. Is that because Greece just kept on borrowing? Actually, no — Greek debt is up only 6 percent since 2009, although that’s partly because it received some debt relief in 2012. The main point, however, is that the ratio of debt to G.D.P. is up because G.D.P. is down by more than 20 percent. And why is GDP down? Largely because of the austerity measures Greece’s creditors forced it to impose.

Does this mean that austerity is always self-defeating? No, there are cases — for example, Canada in the 1990s — of countries that slashed their debt while maintaining growth and reducing unemployment. But if you look at how they managed this, it involved combining fiscal austerity with easy money: Canada in the ’90s drastically reduced interest rates, encouraging private spending, while allowing its currency to depreciate, encouraging exports.
Greece, unfortunately, no longer had its own currency when it was forced into drastic fiscal retrenchment. The result was an economic implosion that ended up making the debt problem even worse. Greece’s formula for disaster, in other words, didn’t just involve austerity; it involved the toxic combination of austerity with hard money.

So who wants to impose that kind of toxic policy mix on America? The answer is, most of the Republican Party.

On one side, just about everyone in the G.O.P. demands that we reduce government spending, especially aid to lower-income families. (They also, of course, want to reduce taxes on the rich — but that wouldn’t do much to boost demand for U.S. products.)

On the other side, leading Republicans like Representative Paul Ryan incessantly attack the Federal Reserve for its efforts to boost the economy, delivering solemn lectures on the evils of “debasing” the dollar — when the main difference between the effects of austerity in Canada and in Greece was precisely that Canada could “debase” its currency, while Greece couldn’t. Oh, and many Republicans hanker for a return to the gold standard, which would effectively put us into a euro-like straitjacket.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/10/o...-a-lesson-for-republicans-in-the-us.html?_r=0

Paul Krugman is an idiot who knows nothing about economics.

Oh really? A Nobel prize winner in economics knows nothing about it? Your ignorance is astounding.

Everything Krugman "knows" about economics is wrong. He's a moron. He once claimed an invasion of aliens from outer space would be good for the economy. That is true stupidity.

 

[Billy000]

It's not what you think it is

Greece is a faraway country with an economy roughly the size of greater Miami, so America has very little direct stake in its ongoing disaster. To the extent that Greece matters to us, it’s mainly about geopolitics: By poisoning relations among Europe’s democracies, the Greek crisis risks depriving the United States of crucial allies.

But Greece has nonetheless played an outsized role in U.S. political debate, as a symbol of the terrible things that will supposedly happen — any day now — unless we stop helping the less fortunate and printing money to fight unemployment. And Greece does indeed offer important lessons to the rest of us. But they’re not the lessons you think, and the people most likely to deliver a Greek-style economic disaster here in America are the very people who love to use Greece as a boogeyman.

To understand the real lessons of Greece, you need to be aware of two crucial points.

Paul Krugman[/paste:font]
Macroeconomics, trade, health care, social policy and politics.

• Ending Greece’s BleedingJUL 5
• Europe’s Many Economic DisastersJUL 3
• Greece Over the BrinkJUN 29
• Hooray for ObamacareJUN 25
• Slavery’s Long ShadowJUN 22

See More »

The first is that the “We’re Greece!” crowd has a truly remarkable track record when it comes to economic forecasting: They’ve been wrong about everything, year after year, but refuse to learn from their mistakes. The people now saying that Greece offers an object lesson in the dangers of government debt, and that America is headed down the same road, are the same people who predicted soaring interest rates and runaway inflation in 2010; then, when it didn’t happen, they predicted soaring rates and runaway inflation in 2011; then, well, you get the picture.

The second is that the story you’ve heard about Greece — that it borrowed too much, and its excessive debt led to the current crisis — is seriously incomplete. Greece did indeed run up too much debt (with a lot of help from irresponsible lenders). But its debt, while high, wasn’t that high by historical standards. What turned Greek debt troubles into catastrophe was Greece’s inability, thanks to the euro, to do what countries with large debts usually do: impose fiscal austerity, yes, but offset it with easy money.

Consider Greece’s situation at the end of 2009, when its debt crisis burst into the open. At that point Greek government debt was near 130 percent of gross domestic product, which is definitely a big number. But it’s by no means unprecedented. As it happens, Greece’s debt ratio in 2009 was about the same as America’s in 1946, just after the war. And Britain’s debt ratio in 1946 was twice as high.

Today, however, Greek debt is over 170 percent of G.D.P. and still rising. Is that because Greece just kept on borrowing? Actually, no — Greek debt is up only 6 percent since 2009, although that’s partly because it received some debt relief in 2012. The main point, however, is that the ratio of debt to G.D.P. is up because G.D.P. is down by more than 20 percent. And why is GDP down? Largely because of the austerity measures Greece’s creditors forced it to impose.

Does this mean that austerity is always self-defeating? No, there are cases — for example, Canada in the 1990s — of countries that slashed their debt while maintaining growth and reducing unemployment. But if you look at how they managed this, it involved combining fiscal austerity with easy money: Canada in the ’90s drastically reduced interest rates, encouraging private spending, while allowing its currency to depreciate, encouraging exports.
Greece, unfortunately, no longer had its own currency when it was forced into drastic fiscal retrenchment. The result was an economic implosion that ended up making the debt problem even worse. Greece’s formula for disaster, in other words, didn’t just involve austerity; it involved the toxic combination of austerity with hard money.

So who wants to impose that kind of toxic policy mix on America? The answer is, most of the Republican Party.

On one side, just about everyone in the G.O.P. demands that we reduce government spending, especially aid to lower-income families. (They also, of course, want to reduce taxes on the rich — but that wouldn’t do much to boost demand for U.S. products.)

On the other side, leading Republicans like Representative Paul Ryan incessantly attack the Federal Reserve for its efforts to boost the economy, delivering solemn lectures on the evils of “debasing” the dollar — when the main difference between the effects of austerity in Canada and in Greece was precisely that Canada could “debase” its currency, while Greece couldn’t. Oh, and many Republicans hanker for a return to the gold standard, which would effectively put us into a euro-like straitjacket.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/10/o...-a-lesson-for-republicans-in-the-us.html?_r=0

Paul Krugman is an idiot who knows nothing about economics.

Oh really? A Nobel prize winner in economics knows nothing about it? Your ignorance is astounding.

Everything Krugman "knows" about economics is wrong. He's a moron. He once claimed an invasion of aliens from outer space would be good for the economy. That is true stupidity.

I have no idea what you are talking about but coming from someone with no formal education in economics whatsoever I can't take you seriously. You actually think Reagan economics works.

 

[bripat9643]

It's not what you think it is

Greece is a faraway country with an economy roughly the size of greater Miami, so America has very little direct stake in its ongoing disaster. To the extent that Greece matters to us, it’s mainly about geopolitics: By poisoning relations among Europe’s democracies, the Greek crisis risks depriving the United States of crucial allies.

But Greece has nonetheless played an outsized role in U.S. political debate, as a symbol of the terrible things that will supposedly happen — any day now — unless we stop helping the less fortunate and printing money to fight unemployment. And Greece does indeed offer important lessons to the rest of us. But they’re not the lessons you think, and the people most likely to deliver a Greek-style economic disaster here in America are the very people who love to use Greece as a boogeyman.

To understand the real lessons of Greece, you need to be aware of two crucial points.

Paul Krugman[/paste:font]
Macroeconomics, trade, health care, social policy and politics.

• Ending Greece’s BleedingJUL 5
• Europe’s Many Economic DisastersJUL 3
• Greece Over the BrinkJUN 29
• Hooray for ObamacareJUN 25
• Slavery’s Long ShadowJUN 22

See More »

The first is that the “We’re Greece!” crowd has a truly remarkable track record when it comes to economic forecasting: They’ve been wrong about everything, year after year, but refuse to learn from their mistakes. The people now saying that Greece offers an object lesson in the dangers of government debt, and that America is headed down the same road, are the same people who predicted soaring interest rates and runaway inflation in 2010; then, when it didn’t happen, they predicted soaring rates and runaway inflation in 2011; then, well, you get the picture.

The second is that the story you’ve heard about Greece — that it borrowed too much, and its excessive debt led to the current crisis — is seriously incomplete. Greece did indeed run up too much debt (with a lot of help from irresponsible lenders). But its debt, while high, wasn’t that high by historical standards. What turned Greek debt troubles into catastrophe was Greece’s inability, thanks to the euro, to do what countries with large debts usually do: impose fiscal austerity, yes, but offset it with easy money.

Consider Greece’s situation at the end of 2009, when its debt crisis burst into the open. At that point Greek government debt was near 130 percent of gross domestic product, which is definitely a big number. But it’s by no means unprecedented. As it happens, Greece’s debt ratio in 2009 was about the same as America’s in 1946, just after the war. And Britain’s debt ratio in 1946 was twice as high.

Today, however, Greek debt is over 170 percent of G.D.P. and still rising. Is that because Greece just kept on borrowing? Actually, no — Greek debt is up only 6 percent since 2009, although that’s partly because it received some debt relief in 2012. The main point, however, is that the ratio of debt to G.D.P. is up because G.D.P. is down by more than 20 percent. And why is GDP down? Largely because of the austerity measures Greece’s creditors forced it to impose.

Does this mean that austerity is always self-defeating? No, there are cases — for example, Canada in the 1990s — of countries that slashed their debt while maintaining growth and reducing unemployment. But if you look at how they managed this, it involved combining fiscal austerity with easy money: Canada in the ’90s drastically reduced interest rates, encouraging private spending, while allowing its currency to depreciate, encouraging exports.
Greece, unfortunately, no longer had its own currency when it was forced into drastic fiscal retrenchment. The result was an economic implosion that ended up making the debt problem even worse. Greece’s formula for disaster, in other words, didn’t just involve austerity; it involved the toxic combination of austerity with hard money.

So who wants to impose that kind of toxic policy mix on America? The answer is, most of the Republican Party.

On one side, just about everyone in the G.O.P. demands that we reduce government spending, especially aid to lower-income families. (They also, of course, want to reduce taxes on the rich — but that wouldn’t do much to boost demand for U.S. products.)

On the other side, leading Republicans like Representative Paul Ryan incessantly attack the Federal Reserve for its efforts to boost the economy, delivering solemn lectures on the evils of “debasing” the dollar — when the main difference between the effects of austerity in Canada and in Greece was precisely that Canada could “debase” its currency, while Greece couldn’t. Oh, and many Republicans hanker for a return to the gold standard, which would effectively put us into a euro-like straitjacket.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/10/o...-a-lesson-for-republicans-in-the-us.html?_r=0

Paul Krugman is an idiot who knows nothing about economics.

Oh really? A Nobel prize winner in economics knows nothing about it? Your ignorance is astounding.

Everything Krugman "knows" about economics is wrong. He's a moron. He once claimed an invasion of aliens from outer space would be good for the economy. That is true stupidity.

I have no idea what you are talking about but coming from someone with no formal education in economics whatsoever I can't take you seriously. You actually think Reagan economics works.

Are you claiming you have had a formal education in economics?

I've had college level economics, but those classes are mostly government propaganda.

The free market works. It always has. We would still be wallowing in abject poverty if it wasn't for the free market.

 

[Billy000]

It's not what you think it is
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/10/o...-a-lesson-for-republicans-in-the-us.html?_r=0

Paul Krugman is an idiot who knows nothing about economics.

Oh really? A Nobel prize winner in economics knows nothing about it? Your ignorance is astounding.

Everything Krugman "knows" about economics is wrong. He's a moron. He once claimed an invasion of aliens from outer space would be good for the economy. That is true stupidity.

I have no idea what you are talking about but coming from someone with no formal education in economics whatsoever I can't take you seriously. You actually think Reagan economics works.

Are you claiming you have had a formal education in economics?

I've had college level economics, but those classes are mostly government propaganda.

The free market works. It always has. We would still be wallowing in abject poverty if it wasn't for the free market.

No I'm claiming you have no basis to criticize someone who does. Government propaganda? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? Tell me who was behind this propaganda? The professors? The college? What exactly was their motivation? Why did they care about brainwashing you? What do they get out of it?

 

[Socialist]

It's not what you think it is
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/10/o...-a-lesson-for-republicans-in-the-us.html?_r=0

Paul Krugman is an idiot who knows nothing about economics.

Oh really? A Nobel prize winner in economics knows nothing about it? Your ignorance is astounding.

Everything Krugman "knows" about economics is wrong. He's a moron. He once claimed an invasion of aliens from outer space would be good for the economy. That is true stupidity.

I have no idea what you are talking about but coming from someone with no formal education in economics whatsoever I can't take you seriously. You actually think Reagan economics works.

Are you claiming you have had a formal education in economics?

I've had college level economics, but those classes are mostly government propaganda.

The free market works. It always has. We would still be wallowing in abject poverty if it wasn't for the free market.

College classes are government propaganda? You're the same moron who believes the WHO is a marxist organization.

 

[bripat9643]

Paul Krugman is an idiot who knows nothing about economics.

Oh really? A Nobel prize winner in economics knows nothing about it? Your ignorance is astounding.

Everything Krugman "knows" about economics is wrong. He's a moron. He once claimed an invasion of aliens from outer space would be good for the economy. That is true stupidity.

I have no idea what you are talking about but coming from someone with no formal education in economics whatsoever I can't take you seriously. You actually think Reagan economics works.

Are you claiming you have had a formal education in economics?

I've had college level economics, but those classes are mostly government propaganda.

The free market works. It always has. We would still be wallowing in abject poverty if it wasn't for the free market.

College classes are government propaganda? You're the same moron who believes the WHO is a marxist organization.

Yes, college classes are government propaganda. That's why the government takes over education, so it can pump young people full of nonsense designed to justify government control.

 

[Billy000]

Oh really? A Nobel prize winner in economics knows nothing about it? Your ignorance is astounding.

Everything Krugman "knows" about economics is wrong. He's a moron. He once claimed an invasion of aliens from outer space would be good for the economy. That is true stupidity.

I have no idea what you are talking about but coming from someone with no formal education in economics whatsoever I can't take you seriously. You actually think Reagan economics works.

Are you claiming you have had a formal education in economics?

I've had college level economics, but those classes are mostly government propaganda.

The free market works. It always has. We would still be wallowing in abject poverty if it wasn't for the free market.

College classes are government propaganda? You're the same moron who believes the WHO is a marxist organization.

Yes, college classes are government propaganda. That's why the government takes over education, so it can pump young people full of nonsense designed to justify government control.

Lol who are these people feeding this propaganda? Is it some secret entity? What exactly are their goals? What do they want accomplished? Be specific.

 

[Socialist]

Oh really? A Nobel prize winner in economics knows nothing about it? Your ignorance is astounding.

Everything Krugman "knows" about economics is wrong. He's a moron. He once claimed an invasion of aliens from outer space would be good for the economy. That is true stupidity.

I have no idea what you are talking about but coming from someone with no formal education in economics whatsoever I can't take you seriously. You actually think Reagan economics works.

Are you claiming you have had a formal education in economics?

I've had college level economics, but those classes are mostly government propaganda.

The free market works. It always has. We would still be wallowing in abject poverty if it wasn't for the free market.

College classes are government propaganda? You're the same moron who believes the WHO is a marxist organization.

Yes, college classes are government propaganda. That's why the government takes over education, so it can pump young people full of nonsense designed to justify government control.

Wow, a true conspiracy theorist, believing the WHO is a marxist propaganda mill, despite you continually ignoring this and, by my own searches, I find nothing, and I find it hilarious you would even claim this since you have no basic understanding of marxism, let alone the world health organization. Oh lord, private colleges are taken over by the government now? The government is part of a huge conspiracy? LOOOL.

 

[Socialist]

Everything Krugman "knows" about economics is wrong. He's a moron. He once claimed an invasion of aliens from outer space would be good for the economy. That is true stupidity.

I have no idea what you are talking about but coming from someone with no formal education in economics whatsoever I can't take you seriously. You actually think Reagan economics works.

Are you claiming you have had a formal education in economics?

I've had college level economics, but those classes are mostly government propaganda.

The free market works. It always has. We would still be wallowing in abject poverty if it wasn't for the free market.

College classes are government propaganda? You're the same moron who believes the WHO is a marxist organization.

Yes, college classes are government propaganda. That's why the government takes over education, so it can pump young people full of nonsense designed to justify government control.

Lol who are these people feeding this propaganda? Is it some secret entity? What exactly are their goals? What do they want accomplished? Be specific.

He won't ever be specific, he can't accept anything that doesn't fit his narrow worldview, despite almost all evidence conclusively showing "trickle down" "reagonomics" is a complete failure, even the INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND agrees that redistributing to the poor boosts economic growth.

 

[bripat9643]

Everything Krugman "knows" about economics is wrong. He's a moron. He once claimed an invasion of aliens from outer space would be good for the economy. That is true stupidity.

I have no idea what you are talking about but coming from someone with no formal education in economics whatsoever I can't take you seriously. You actually think Reagan economics works.

Are you claiming you have had a formal education in economics?

I've had college level economics, but those classes are mostly government propaganda.

The free market works. It always has. We would still be wallowing in abject poverty if it wasn't for the free market.

College classes are government propaganda? You're the same moron who believes the WHO is a marxist organization.

Yes, college classes are government propaganda. That's why the government takes over education, so it can pump young people full of nonsense designed to justify government control.

Lol who are these people feeding this propaganda? Is it some secret entity? What exactly are their goals? What do they want accomplished? Be specific.

They're called professors. The ones teaching anything remotely political are all a bunch of Marxists.

 

[bripat9643]

I have no idea what you are talking about but coming from someone with no formal education in economics whatsoever I can't take you seriously. You actually think Reagan economics works.

Are you claiming you have had a formal education in economics?

I've had college level economics, but those classes are mostly government propaganda.

The free market works. It always has. We would still be wallowing in abject poverty if it wasn't for the free market.

College classes are government propaganda? You're the same moron who believes the WHO is a marxist organization.

Yes, college classes are government propaganda. That's why the government takes over education, so it can pump young people full of nonsense designed to justify government control.

Lol who are these people feeding this propaganda? Is it some secret entity? What exactly are their goals? What do they want accomplished? Be specific.

He won't ever be specific, he can't accept anything that doesn't fit his narrow worldview, despite almost all evidence conclusively showing "trickle down" "reagonomics" is a complete failure, even the INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND agrees that redistributing to the poor boosts economic growth.

I just posted tons of evidence showing it to be a fantastic success. It's hilarious how almost everything you say about me is so profoundly ironic.

 

[Socialist]

I have no idea what you are talking about but coming from someone with no formal education in economics whatsoever I can't take you seriously. You actually think Reagan economics works.

Are you claiming you have had a formal education in economics?

I've had college level economics, but those classes are mostly government propaganda.

The free market works. It always has. We would still be wallowing in abject poverty if it wasn't for the free market.

College classes are government propaganda? You're the same moron who believes the WHO is a marxist organization.

Yes, college classes are government propaganda. That's why the government takes over education, so it can pump young people full of nonsense designed to justify government control.

Lol who are these people feeding this propaganda? Is it some secret entity? What exactly are their goals? What do they want accomplished? Be specific.

They're called professors. The ones teaching anything remotely political are all a bunch of Marxists.

LOL. Do you even hear yourself right now? You've literally just claimed all professors teaching anything remotely political are marxists. Do you even know what marxism is?
Beginners Guide to Marxism by Marxists Internet Archive 2009

 

[Socialist]

Are you claiming you have had a formal education in economics?

I've had college level economics, but those classes are mostly government propaganda.

The free market works. It always has. We would still be wallowing in abject poverty if it wasn't for the free market.

College classes are government propaganda? You're the same moron who believes the WHO is a marxist organization.

Yes, college classes are government propaganda. That's why the government takes over education, so it can pump young people full of nonsense designed to justify government control.

Lol who are these people feeding this propaganda? Is it some secret entity? What exactly are their goals? What do they want accomplished? Be specific.

He won't ever be specific, he can't accept anything that doesn't fit his narrow worldview, despite almost all evidence conclusively showing "trickle down" "reagonomics" is a complete failure, even the INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND agrees that redistributing to the poor boosts economic growth.

I just posted tons of evidence showing it to be a fantastic success. It's hilarious how almost everything you say about me is so profoundly ironic.

LOL. Yeah, stagnant wages, a shrinking middle class, rampant inequality... You're a joke.

 

[bripat9643]

Are you claiming you have had a formal education in economics?

I've had college level economics, but those classes are mostly government propaganda.

The free market works. It always has. We would still be wallowing in abject poverty if it wasn't for the free market.

College classes are government propaganda? You're the same moron who believes the WHO is a marxist organization.

Yes, college classes are government propaganda. That's why the government takes over education, so it can pump young people full of nonsense designed to justify government control.

Lol who are these people feeding this propaganda? Is it some secret entity? What exactly are their goals? What do they want accomplished? Be specific.

They're called professors. The ones teaching anything remotely political are all a bunch of Marxists.

LOL. Do you even hear yourself right now? You've literally just claimed all professors teaching anything remotely political are marxists. Do you even know what marxism is?
Beginners Guide to Marxism by Marxists Internet Archive 2009

Yes, I've read the communist manifesto and large parts of Das Kapital, believe it or not. The bottom line is that what I said. It's the indisputable truth. Just go to the college library and read the Marxist horseshit they publish.

 

[Socialist]

College classes are government propaganda? You're the same moron who believes the WHO is a marxist organization.

Yes, college classes are government propaganda. That's why the government takes over education, so it can pump young people full of nonsense designed to justify government control.

Lol who are these people feeding this propaganda? Is it some secret entity? What exactly are their goals? What do they want accomplished? Be specific.

They're called professors. The ones teaching anything remotely political are all a bunch of Marxists.

LOL. Do you even hear yourself right now? You've literally just claimed all professors teaching anything remotely political are marxists. Do you even know what marxism is?
Beginners Guide to Marxism by Marxists Internet Archive 2009

Yes, I've read the communist manifesto and large parts of Das Kapital, believe it or not. The bottom line is that what I said. It's the indisputable truth. Just go to the college library and read the Marxist horseshit they publish.

You literally believe that all professors at all colleges, private or public, are marxists. You have no idea what marxism is, and the communist manifesto is a specific document to the working classes of that time, not related to dialectical materialism, or any of the foundations of marxism. Yeah, I'm sure you've read kapital, it's one of the most complicated works to get a basic understanding of, and your statements are so out of touch with reality they belong on alex jones. I also love how you claimed that the WHO is a "marxist propaganda mill." You're a delusional idiot in love with the red scare.

 

[rdean]

The real problem in Greece is income inequality. Exactly the same situation that right wingers are trying to create here by the redistribution of the country's wealth to the top 1%. The GOP base is too fucking stupid to understand that if you move the wealth of the nation to the top 1% that creates many more poor that are dependent on government. And the GOP leadership are too greedy to want to stop it.
A terrible combination. A stupid and uneducated and racist base and a greedy and immoral leadership.

 

[bripat9643]

College classes are government propaganda? You're the same moron who believes the WHO is a marxist organization.

Yes, college classes are government propaganda. That's why the government takes over education, so it can pump young people full of nonsense designed to justify government control.

Lol who are these people feeding this propaganda? Is it some secret entity? What exactly are their goals? What do they want accomplished? Be specific.

He won't ever be specific, he can't accept anything that doesn't fit his narrow worldview, despite almost all evidence conclusively showing "trickle down" "reagonomics" is a complete failure, even the INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND agrees that redistributing to the poor boosts economic growth.

I just posted tons of evidence showing it to be a fantastic success. It's hilarious how almost everything you say about me is so profoundly ironic.

LOL. Yeah, stagnant wages, a shrinking middle class, rampant inequality... You're a joke.

Don't let the facts get in your way. Most of what you think you know is imaginary.

 

[Socialist]

Yes, college classes are government propaganda. That's why the government takes over education, so it can pump young people full of nonsense designed to justify government control.

Lol who are these people feeding this propaganda? Is it some secret entity? What exactly are their goals? What do they want accomplished? Be specific.

He won't ever be specific, he can't accept anything that doesn't fit his narrow worldview, despite almost all evidence conclusively showing "trickle down" "reagonomics" is a complete failure, even the INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND agrees that redistributing to the poor boosts economic growth.

I just posted tons of evidence showing it to be a fantastic success. It's hilarious how almost everything you say about me is so profoundly ironic.

LOL. Yeah, stagnant wages, a shrinking middle class, rampant inequality... You're a joke.

Don't let the facts get in your way. Most of what you think you know is imaginary.

I don't care about Obama, we're examining the effects of reagan's policies, and you can't honestly be telling me wages haven't been stagnant while productivity is through the roof?

 

[Socialist]

Yes, college classes are government propaganda. That's why the government takes over education, so it can pump young people full of nonsense designed to justify government control.

Lol who are these people feeding this propaganda? Is it some secret entity? What exactly are their goals? What do they want accomplished? Be specific.

He won't ever be specific, he can't accept anything that doesn't fit his narrow worldview, despite almost all evidence conclusively showing "trickle down" "reagonomics" is a complete failure, even the INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND agrees that redistributing to the poor boosts economic growth.

I just posted tons of evidence showing it to be a fantastic success. It's hilarious how almost everything you say about me is so profoundly ironic.

LOL. Yeah, stagnant wages, a shrinking middle class, rampant inequality... You're a joke.

Don't let the facts get in your way. Most of what you think you know is imaginary.

Trickle-Down Economics Four Reasons Why It Just Doesn t Work United for a Fair Economy
I can post websites to, the majority of intellectuals all agree working families/tax breaks for the rich do not work, then again, you've labeled the WHO marxist propaganda already, you're so fucking confined in a bubble, you belong on reddit.com/r/conspiracy

 

[Darkwind]

It's not what you think it is

Greece is a faraway country with an economy roughly the size of greater Miami, so America has very little direct stake in its ongoing disaster. To the extent that Greece matters to us, it’s mainly about geopolitics: By poisoning relations among Europe’s democracies, the Greek crisis risks depriving the United States of crucial allies.

But Greece has nonetheless played an outsized role in U.S. political debate, as a symbol of the terrible things that will supposedly happen — any day now — unless we stop helping the less fortunate and printing money to fight unemployment. And Greece does indeed offer important lessons to the rest of us. But they’re not the lessons you think, and the people most likely to deliver a Greek-style economic disaster here in America are the very people who love to use Greece as a boogeyman.

To understand the real lessons of Greece, you need to be aware of two crucial points.

Paul Krugman[/paste:font]
Macroeconomics, trade, health care, social policy and politics.

• Ending Greece’s BleedingJUL 5
• Europe’s Many Economic DisastersJUL 3
• Greece Over the BrinkJUN 29
• Hooray for ObamacareJUN 25
• Slavery’s Long ShadowJUN 22

See More »

The first is that the “We’re Greece!” crowd has a truly remarkable track record when it comes to economic forecasting: They’ve been wrong about everything, year after year, but refuse to learn from their mistakes. The people now saying that Greece offers an object lesson in the dangers of government debt, and that America is headed down the same road, are the same people who predicted soaring interest rates and runaway inflation in 2010; then, when it didn’t happen, they predicted soaring rates and runaway inflation in 2011; then, well, you get the picture.

The second is that the story you’ve heard about Greece — that it borrowed too much, and its excessive debt led to the current crisis — is seriously incomplete. Greece did indeed run up too much debt (with a lot of help from irresponsible lenders). But its debt, while high, wasn’t that high by historical standards. What turned Greek debt troubles into catastrophe was Greece’s inability, thanks to the euro, to do what countries with large debts usually do: impose fiscal austerity, yes, but offset it with easy money.

Consider Greece’s situation at the end of 2009, when its debt crisis burst into the open. At that point Greek government debt was near 130 percent of gross domestic product, which is definitely a big number. But it’s by no means unprecedented. As it happens, Greece’s debt ratio in 2009 was about the same as America’s in 1946, just after the war. And Britain’s debt ratio in 1946 was twice as high.

Today, however, Greek debt is over 170 percent of G.D.P. and still rising. Is that because Greece just kept on borrowing? Actually, no — Greek debt is up only 6 percent since 2009, although that’s partly because it received some debt relief in 2012. The main point, however, is that the ratio of debt to G.D.P. is up because G.D.P. is down by more than 20 percent. And why is GDP down? Largely because of the austerity measures Greece’s creditors forced it to impose.

Does this mean that austerity is always self-defeating? No, there are cases — for example, Canada in the 1990s — of countries that slashed their debt while maintaining growth and reducing unemployment. But if you look at how they managed this, it involved combining fiscal austerity with easy money: Canada in the ’90s drastically reduced interest rates, encouraging private spending, while allowing its currency to depreciate, encouraging exports.
Greece, unfortunately, no longer had its own currency when it was forced into drastic fiscal retrenchment. The result was an economic implosion that ended up making the debt problem even worse. Greece’s formula for disaster, in other words, didn’t just involve austerity; it involved the toxic combination of austerity with hard money.

So who wants to impose that kind of toxic policy mix on America? The answer is, most of the Republican Party.

On one side, just about everyone in the G.O.P. demands that we reduce government spending, especially aid to lower-income families. (They also, of course, want to reduce taxes on the rich — but that wouldn’t do much to boost demand for U.S. products.)

On the other side, leading Republicans like Representative Paul Ryan incessantly attack the Federal Reserve for its efforts to boost the economy, delivering solemn lectures on the evils of “debasing” the dollar — when the main difference between the effects of austerity in Canada and in Greece was precisely that Canada could “debase” its currency, while Greece couldn’t. Oh, and many Republicans hanker for a return to the gold standard, which would effectively put us into a euro-like straitjacket.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/10/o...-a-lesson-for-republicans-in-the-us.html?_r=0

it sure is...don't be stupid like the Greeks and don't embrace socialism...reduce the size of government and increase individual freedom....works like a charm every timeout is tried...

Oh right let's be more like Somalia. Great plan.

I'd like to see one successful country with a "small government" that worked well. Somalia?

United States.

Circa 1790 to 1913.....Give it a gander sometime.