Hell just froze over.....

[Old Rocks]

Of course they have. But at a much slower rate in most cases. However, when they came on very quickly, or it cooled very quickly, those were times of extinction. And your graph is far to large scale to show many of the excursions of GHGs. The one for the Ordovician went far deeper than your graph indicates. Much work has been done recently on proxy data that shows this.

It is not the absolute temperature that is the problem at present. But the rate that the temperature is changing, and the effects that will have on the agriculture and ocean life that over 7 billion humans depend on for food. Also, as the sea level rises, there will be millions of displaced persons, and many of them with no place to go because of borders with hostile nations. A situation that will result in some bad conflicts, some of them involving nations with nuclear arms.

yet according to those graphs, we are due (if not overdue) for a warming period and really nobody can tell if the current so called warming isn't from natural causes or human.

the effects that will have on the agriculture and ocean life that over 7 billion humans depend on for food. Also, as the sea level rises, there will be millions of displaced persons, and many of them with no place to go because of borders with hostile nations. A situation that will result in some bad conflicts, some of them involving nations with nuclear arms

^^^^this is the whole premise of the current 'Global Warming' scare. That as the earth goes thru it's normal warm up cycle, glaciers will melt, raise the sea levels, etc......the only difference between now and say 350 million years ago, is the displaced populations because of it.

You say we are overdue for a warming cycle? Just what do you base that on? Because the cycles that we see are the Milankovic Cycles, and they say we should slowly be entering a cooling period. And that is what we see when we look at the temperatures for the past 1000 to 2000 years.

Milankovitch Cycles — OSS Foundation

NATURAL CYCLE DEPARTURE
The natural cycle is range bound and well understood, largely constrained by the Milankovitch cycles. Since the beginning of the industrial age, humankind has caused such a dramatic departure from the natural cycle, that it is hard to imagine anyone thinking that we are still in the natural cycle.

Natural vs. Modern Forcing


Natural vs. Modern Climate Path

This departure is so dramatic that it has instigated a new era. According to some studies, there is enough evidence to state that we have departed the Holocene and entered the Anthropocene. Simply put, based on the evidence, mankind has forced the Earth climate system to depart from it's natural cycle forcing.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

Of course they have. But at a much slower rate in most cases. However, when they came on very quickly, or it cooled very quickly, those were times of extinction. And your graph is far to large scale to show many of the excursions of GHGs. The one for the Ordovician went far deeper than your graph indicates. Much work has been done recently on proxy data that shows this.

It is not the absolute temperature that is the problem at present. But the rate that the temperature is changing, and the effects that will have on the agriculture and ocean life that over 7 billion humans depend on for food. Also, as the sea level rises, there will be millions of displaced persons, and many of them with no place to go because of borders with hostile nations. A situation that will result in some bad conflicts, some of them involving nations with nuclear arms.

yet according to those graphs, we are due (if not overdue) for a warming period and really nobody can tell if the current so called warming isn't from natural causes or human.

the effects that will have on the agriculture and ocean life that over 7 billion humans depend on for food. Also, as the sea level rises, there will be millions of displaced persons, and many of them with no place to go because of borders with hostile nations. A situation that will result in some bad conflicts, some of them involving nations with nuclear arms

^^^^this is the whole premise of the current 'Global Warming' scare. That as the earth goes thru it's normal warm up cycle, glaciers will melt, raise the sea levels, etc......the only difference between now and say 350 million years ago, is the displaced populations because of it.

You say we are overdue for a warming cycle? Just what do you base that on? Because the cycles that we see are the Milankovic Cycles, and they say we should slowly be entering a cooling period. And that is what we see when we look at the temperatures for the past 1000 to 2000 years.

Milankovitch Cycles — OSS Foundation

NATURAL CYCLE DEPARTURE
The natural cycle is range bound and well understood, largely constrained by the Milankovitch cycles. Since the beginning of the industrial age, humankind has caused such a dramatic departure from the natural cycle, that it is hard to imagine anyone thinking that we are still in the natural cycle.

Natural vs. Modern Forcing


Natural vs. Modern Climate Path

This departure is so dramatic that it has instigated a new era. According to some studies, there is enough evidence to state that we have departed the Holocene and entered the Anthropocene. Simply put, based on the evidence, mankind has forced the Earth climate system to depart from it's natural cycle forcing.

Yes, I was referring to this graph......shows the different cycles of 'warmhouse vs icehouse' It shows we've been in an 'icehouse' cycle for about the last 40million years.

 

[Old Rocks]

Now see here? It shows CO2's, Temps & continent flooding fluctuations.....it also shows along the bottom the differing warm/cold cycles. The earth has been in an 'icehouse' condition since the Eocene period......also the different CO2 & temp fluctuations don't exactly correspond with the warming/cooling cycles....and most of those changes all happened before the wheel was invented, much less exhaust pipes or fracking.



As I've said elsewhere, man does have responsibility to care for the earth.......we could do much better in how we obtain & use resources (that much I agree with you) but when you go back far enough you see it's not so much what we've done to bring it about vs it happening anyway in it's natural cycle





View attachment 108999

First of all, I know that graph very well. And know several places it simply does not reflect reality. Such as the Ordivician extinction. The CO2 level went much lower than that graph indicates.

For the last 2 to 2 1/2 million years, since the closing of the Isthmus of Panama, we have been in a glacial period. During that time we have had a number of interglacials. At no time in any of those interglacials has the GHG levels approached what they are today. There is a good deal of inertia in the system due to the mass of our oceans. So, what we are seeing today is representative of the GHG levels of 30 to 50 yeas ago. I think by 2050 we will see some very grim results from what we have already put into the atmosphere.

Yes, we are supposed to be stewards of the Earth, not merely parasites on it.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

Now see here? It shows CO2's, Temps & continent flooding fluctuations.....it also shows along the bottom the differing warm/cold cycles. The earth has been in an 'icehouse' condition since the Eocene period......also the different CO2 & temp fluctuations don't exactly correspond with the warming/cooling cycles....and most of those changes all happened before the wheel was invented, much less exhaust pipes or fracking.



As I've said elsewhere, man does have responsibility to care for the earth.......we could do much better in how we obtain & use resources (that much I agree with you) but when you go back far enough you see it's not so much what we've done to bring it about vs it happening anyway in it's natural cycle





View attachment 108999

First of all, I know that graph very well. And know several places it simply does not reflect reality. Such as the Ordivician extinction. The CO2 level went much lower than that graph indicates.

For the last 2 to 2 1/2 million years, since the closing of the Isthmus of Panama, we have been in a glacial period. During that time we have had a number of interglacials. At no time in any of those interglacials has the GHG levels approached what they are today. There is a good deal of inertia in the system due to the mass of our oceans. So, what we are seeing today is representative of the GHG levels of 30 to 50 yeas ago. I think by 2050 we will see some very grim results from what we have already put into the atmosphere.

Yes, we are supposed to be stewards of the Earth, not merely parasites on it.

Man has contributed to it, yes no doubt. But he didn't create it and can't stop it from happening either. Kinda like riding a runaway train......the process was already in fast motion to begin with, man may have tapped the accelerator by a fraction of a degree....but no amount of braking & reversal will stop it. WE'RE DOOMED .....in a couple million years vs tens of millions.

 

[Old Rocks]

Now see here? It shows CO2's, Temps & continent flooding fluctuations.....it also shows along the bottom the differing warm/cold cycles. The earth has been in an 'icehouse' condition since the Eocene period......also the different CO2 & temp fluctuations don't exactly correspond with the warming/cooling cycles....and most of those changes all happened before the wheel was invented, much less exhaust pipes or fracking.



As I've said elsewhere, man does have responsibility to care for the earth.......we could do much better in how we obtain & use resources (that much I agree with you) but when you go back far enough you see it's not so much what we've done to bring it about vs it happening anyway in it's natural cycle





View attachment 108999

First of all, I know that graph very well. And know several places it simply does not reflect reality. Such as the Ordivician extinction. The CO2 level went much lower than that graph indicates.

For the last 2 to 2 1/2 million years, since the closing of the Isthmus of Panama, we have been in a glacial period. During that time we have had a number of interglacials. At no time in any of those interglacials has the GHG levels approached what they are today. There is a good deal of inertia in the system due to the mass of our oceans. So, what we are seeing today is representative of the GHG levels of 30 to 50 yeas ago. I think by 2050 we will see some very grim results from what we have already put into the atmosphere.

Yes, we are supposed to be stewards of the Earth, not merely parasites on it.

Man has contributed to it, yes no doubt. But he didn't create it and can't stop it from happening either. Kinda like riding a runaway train......the process was already in fast motion to begin with, man may have tapped the accelerator by a fraction of a degree....but no amount of braking & reversal will stop it. WE'RE DOOMED .....in a couple million years vs tens of millions.

Not hardly. But we are creating more hardships for our grandchildren than is necessary.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

Now see here? It shows CO2's, Temps & continent flooding fluctuations.....it also shows along the bottom the differing warm/cold cycles. The earth has been in an 'icehouse' condition since the Eocene period......also the different CO2 & temp fluctuations don't exactly correspond with the warming/cooling cycles....and most of those changes all happened before the wheel was invented, much less exhaust pipes or fracking.



As I've said elsewhere, man does have responsibility to care for the earth.......we could do much better in how we obtain & use resources (that much I agree with you) but when you go back far enough you see it's not so much what we've done to bring it about vs it happening anyway in it's natural cycle





View attachment 108999

First of all, I know that graph very well. And know several places it simply does not reflect reality. Such as the Ordivician extinction. The CO2 level went much lower than that graph indicates.

For the last 2 to 2 1/2 million years, since the closing of the Isthmus of Panama, we have been in a glacial period. During that time we have had a number of interglacials. At no time in any of those interglacials has the GHG levels approached what they are today. There is a good deal of inertia in the system due to the mass of our oceans. So, what we are seeing today is representative of the GHG levels of 30 to 50 yeas ago. I think by 2050 we will see some very grim results from what we have already put into the atmosphere.

Yes, we are supposed to be stewards of the Earth, not merely parasites on it.

Man has contributed to it, yes no doubt. But he didn't create it and can't stop it from happening either. Kinda like riding a runaway train......the process was already in fast motion to begin with, man may have tapped the accelerator by a fraction of a degree....but no amount of braking & reversal will stop it. WE'RE DOOMED .....in a couple million years vs tens of millions.

Not hardly. But we are creating more hardships for our grandchildren than is necessary.

But we are creating more hardships for our grandchildren than is necessary

That part is true....but the climate is the least of those problems

 

[Old Rocks]

On the contrary. Here is why that is wrong. It is a long lecture, however, over the last 5 years, I have sat through many longer lectures working toward a degree. All the while working full time in a steel mill. So I have little patience with those that cannot do that.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

And that steel mill produced more than plenty of those CO2's & other contaminates you argue against. Hypocritical much? Whatever. Don't know, don't care and I have little patience for long winded scientists trying to imposed their views on others based on how many phd's they have. And that attitude comes from seeing many such scientists claiming something as fact........then later reversing on it when their initial claim has been debunked. (No I'm not directing that at you specifically)

Science is and always has been hypothesis......the questioning of what is and coming up with theories in answer. The ultimate fact of the matter is this....the earth is in constant state of change......always has been, is now and always will be

 

[Old Rocks]

In other words you prefer your prejudices to reality. And are far too lazy to actually research the topic that you post on. As for your contempt of science and scientists, that is so typical of dumb ass fucked up 'Conservatives'. Ah well, there are simply people that resent anybody that puts out intellectual effort to understand the world we live in, and you seem to be one of them.