I thought Obama said we had to spend our way back into prosperity?

[VaYank5150]

If you think government spending is going to save our economy or get our jobs back, you are smoking crack. This is a lot more complex economy than the 1930s. The only breathing room we have as a nation is for government to take a back seat and shut up, and get out of the way for a little bit. The time for bright ideas and increased spending is over. Government broke our nation. It's going to take years to get out of this mess, and then maybe we can listen to bright ideas again. That's where we are.

It is complex. But government does need to spend. And banks need to lend money instead of high fiving themselves for almost exploding the world's economic system with obscene bonuses.

And because the repubs broke everything doesn't mean that Dems shouldn't get to fix it... same as they always do.

The problem is the rant and rave from the rightwingnuts started the day he was elected.

Where were Chris Dodd and Barney Frank and even Barack Obama as a sitting U.S. Senator when this bubble was ballooning up?

To claim that "repubs" and "rightwingnuts" caused the problem is completely partisan and myopic. G.W. tried to reel in Fannie and Freddie four times, if memory serves. And no one listened. They were ALL too busy pandering for votes by loosening lending standards.

You know, Republicanism DOES recognize the need for some government regulation. We just ask that it not be a Sherman Tank when a flyswatter will do. Greed is as natural to human beings as compassion. Both most be regulated by logic. That's why we bother "regulating" at all... to curb our natural excesses. We can't be Constitutional Republicans without recognizing the validity of the enumerated power to regulate placed with Congress.

But at the bottom line, these people left the cookie jar out... all of them, Democrats and Republicans alike. And now they want to point the finger of blame.. like it wasn't their JOB to mind the cookie jar.

Your anger is misplaced if you only blame half of them. That means the other half go about their merry way, spreading more misery as they go, because the problem won't get solved until they recognize what they did wrong and then do what's necessary to correct it.

<You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Murf76 again>

 

[VaYank5150]

The problem with guaranteeing insurance for preexisting conditions is that there in no incentive for ANYONE to buy insurance UNTIL then get sick.

Likewise, there is NO incentive to provide insurance once someone is sick.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The problem with guaranteeing insurance for preexisting conditions is that there in no incentive for ANYONE to buy insurance UNTIL then get sick.

Likewise, there is NO incentive to provide insurance once someone is sick.

I know, and I don't know how to square this away under current circumstances.

I'm a big fan of Medical Saving accounts, where insurance is only for really big ticket items.

 

[Murf76]

Obama got hurt on this because someone thought it a good idea to tax coverage.

Nope. Obama got hurt... because the whole thing was just a Trojan Horse for single-payer. He never had any interest in lowering the cost of treatment or the price of health insurance. If he had... he wouldn't have rejected out of hand, the idea of selling policies across state lines.



You know, Jillian... the saddest part of this whole debacle is that yet another year has gone by without healthcare being addressed. The costs continue to climb. And individuals are being drowned in them. But the stubborn insistence of this Congress on doing a massive bill that would incrementally lead to government takeover has ruined any opportunity we had to get some of the quick fixes that could've helped people TODAY.

We've heard nothing but complaints, and some legitimate, about the insurance companies. But liberals are playing right into their hands. Didn't you ever wonder WHY the only push-back we've seen from them came when they found out the fines on the individual mandate wouldn't be high enough to force young people into the insurance pools? .... It's because they're in with the Obamacare plan. It brings them business that they DON'T have to compete for. It guarantees warm bodies for their risk pools, and even the "public option" was unlikely to change that. It would've only been one "competitor", not the 1300 that each one would face virtually overnight if we opened up the market.

You guys have been "useful idiots" in this respect. These big insurers would shit their pants if they ACTUALLY had to compete for business with one another.

All in all, I think they're less afraid of "single-payer" than they are of real competition. It looks to me like they know something we don't know.

 

[jillian]

Where were Chris Dodd and Barney Frank and even Barack Obama as a sitting U.S. Senator when this bubble was ballooning up?

To claim that "repubs" and "rightwingnuts" caused the problem is completely partisan and myopic. G.W. tried to reel in Fannie and Freddie four times, if memory serves. And no one listened. They were ALL too busy pandering for votes by loosening lending standards.

You know, Republicanism DOES recognize the need for some government regulation. We just ask that it not be a Sherman Tank when a flyswatter will do. Greed is as natural to human beings as compassion. Both most be regulated by logic. That's why we bother "regulating" at all... to curb our natural excesses. We can't be Constitutional Republicans without recognizing the validity of the enumerated power to regulate placed with Congress.

But at the bottom line, these people left the cookie jar out... all of them, Democrats and Republicans alike. And now they want to point the finger of blame.. like it wasn't their JOB to mind the cookie jar.

Your anger is misplaced if you only blame half of them. That means the other half go about their merry way, spreading more misery as they go, because the problem won't get solved until they recognize what they did wrong and then do what's necessary to correct it.

Chris Dodd and Barney Frank were a tiny part of the problem. The main part of the problem was banks being deregulated. I can also attest, having done more than my share of closings for people during the boom, that the mortgage brokers were encouraging people to take ARM's which they knew would balloon five years later. They kept telling people to re-fi, take out tons of cash to re-do their homes or whatever else and then re-fi again five years later to beat the ARM. The problem was when they finally went to re-fi, their house wasn't worth the amount they needed to pull out to pay the prior mortgage...

Mostly it came from a combination of non-enforcement by the SEC which led to some truly bizarre risk-taking behavior on the part of wall street and the bundlng of bad debt by the banks.

I have yet to see a repub who doesn't lose his/her mind when you talk about regulation of the stock market or banks or any other corporate entity,... and if you want to fix this, THAT is what has to be done. And, fwiw, i see those corporatist attitudes as being the cause of most of our problems right now. So you'll forgive me if I don't rend my clothes over barney frank and chris dodd.

btw, mostly, the banks knew that someone making $100,000 couldn't afford a $750,000 house. Where was their risk assessment?

 

[theHawk]

Obama seeks to freeze some spending - White House- msnbc.com

The spending freeze would apply to a relatively small portion of the federal budget, affecting a $477 billion pot of money available for domestic agencies whose budgets are approved by Congress each year. Some of those agencies could get increases, others would have to face cuts; such programs got an almost 10 percent increase this year. The federal budget total was $3.5 trillion.

Funny, that's exactly what McCain proposed during the election.

I wonder how many more Republican policies Obama will adopt as time goes on with his on-the-job training in the White House.

 

[Dr.House]

Obama seeks to freeze some spending - White House- msnbc.com

The spending freeze would apply to a relatively small portion of the federal budget, affecting a $477 billion pot of money available for domestic agencies whose budgets are approved by Congress each year. Some of those agencies could get increases, others would have to face cuts; such programs got an almost 10 percent increase this year. The federal budget total was $3.5 trillion.

Funny, that's exactly what McCain proposed during the election.

I wonder how many more Republican policies Obama will adopt as time goes on with his on-the-job training in the White House.

Strange, isn't it?

He's about to propose something he campaigned against....

RealClearPolitics - Video - Obama Campaigned Against Spending Freeze

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Where were Chris Dodd and Barney Frank and even Barack Obama as a sitting U.S. Senator when this bubble was ballooning up?

To claim that "repubs" and "rightwingnuts" caused the problem is completely partisan and myopic. G.W. tried to reel in Fannie and Freddie four times, if memory serves. And no one listened. They were ALL too busy pandering for votes by loosening lending standards.

You know, Republicanism DOES recognize the need for some government regulation. We just ask that it not be a Sherman Tank when a flyswatter will do. Greed is as natural to human beings as compassion. Both most be regulated by logic. That's why we bother "regulating" at all... to curb our natural excesses. We can't be Constitutional Republicans without recognizing the validity of the enumerated power to regulate placed with Congress.

But at the bottom line, these people left the cookie jar out... all of them, Democrats and Republicans alike. And now they want to point the finger of blame.. like it wasn't their JOB to mind the cookie jar.

Your anger is misplaced if you only blame half of them. That means the other half go about their merry way, spreading more misery as they go, because the problem won't get solved until they recognize what they did wrong and then do what's necessary to correct it.

Chris Dodd and Barney Frank were a tiny part of the problem. The main part of the problem was banks being deregulated. I can also attest, having done more than my share of closings for people during the boom, that the mortgage brokers were encouraging people to take ARM's which they knew would balloon five years later. They kept telling people to re-fi, take out tons of cash to re-do their homes or whatever else and then re-fi again five years later to beat the ARM. The problem was when they finally went to re-fi, their house wasn't worth the amount they needed to pull out to pay the prior mortgage...

Mostly it came from a combination of non-enforcement by the SEC which led to some truly bizarre risk-taking behavior on the part of wall street and the bundlng of bad debt by the banks.

I have yet to see a repub who doesn't lose his/her mind when you talk about regulation of the stock market or banks or any other corporate entity,... and if you want to fix this, THAT is what has to be done. And, fwiw, i see those corporatist attitudes as being the cause of most of our problems right now. So you'll forgive me if I don't rend my clothes over barney frank and chris dodd.

btw, mostly, the banks knew that someone making $100,000 couldn't afford a $750,000 house. Where was their risk assessment?

They could sell the paper to Fannie and Freddie and pocket a fee, in fact they HAD to show they were doing CRA lending if they wanted to entertain doing business in the community

 

[jillian]

They could sell the paper to Fannie and Freddie and pocket a fee, in fact they HAD to show they were doing CRA lending if they wanted to entertain doing business in the community

but that's not where the really bad risk was. the really bad risk was in the mcmansion world.

 

[uscitizen]

The worst risk was in unregualted derivitives trading. Which was rated low risk by Standard and Poors and Moodys.

 

[Samson]

Obama seeks to freeze some spending - White House- msnbc.com

The spending freeze would apply to a relatively small portion of the federal budget, affecting a $477 billion pot of money available for domestic agencies whose budgets are approved by Congress each year. Some of those agencies could get increases, others would have to face cuts; such programs got an almost 10 percent increase this year. The federal budget total was $3.5 trillion.

Yes, that spending back to prosperity works real well at my house. Now I have credit cards so run up that I can't pay them off. Now I am filing for bankruptsy.JUST KIDDING, I PAY CASH FOR EVERYTHING AND IF I CAN'T AFFORD IT, I DON'T BUY IT. Maybe the government could learn something from the average citizens out in the real world.

No.

I'm learning from the government.

I'm printing my own money.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Obama seeks to freeze some spending - White House- msnbc.com

The spending freeze would apply to a relatively small portion of the federal budget, affecting a $477 billion pot of money available for domestic agencies whose budgets are approved by Congress each year. Some of those agencies could get increases, others would have to face cuts; such programs got an almost 10 percent increase this year. The federal budget total was $3.5 trillion.

Funny, that's exactly what McCain proposed during the election.

I wonder how many more Republican policies Obama will adopt as time goes on with his on-the-job training in the White House.

Next up: Obama is going to ask Palin to be his VP

 

[uscitizen]

Obama seeks to freeze some spending - White House- msnbc.com

Funny, that's exactly what McCain proposed during the election.

I wonder how many more Republican policies Obama will adopt as time goes on with his on-the-job training in the White House.

Next up: Obama is going to ask Palin to be his VP

OMG! I hope franks family has put up all the sharp objects and such already.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Funny, that's exactly what McCain proposed during the election.

I wonder how many more Republican policies Obama will adopt as time goes on with his on-the-job training in the White House.

Next up: Obama is going to ask Palin to be his VP

OMG! I hope franks family has put up all the sharp objects and such already.

Obama's the one now running against his record and pretending he's Juan McCain

 

[Midnight Marauder]

I voted for Obama because he touted himself as different from "politics as usual". What I am seeing is Obama governing by what the polls tell him. Typical politician to me...

It's refreshing to see this honesty.

I will now have to re-evaluate you, Yank.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

He needs to shut down the loons so he can run his govenment.

What "loons" are stopping him from doing anything he wants?

 

[VaYank5150]

He needs to shut down the loons so he can run his govenment.

What "loons" are stopping him from doing anything he wants?

Just the ones in his own party...

 

[jillian]

He needs to shut down the loons so he can run his govenment.

What "loons" are stopping him from doing anything he wants?

cute.

ah.. see this is where my issue with him is. the loons are the noisemakers who started the day he was elected...and the sorelosers who started talking about an armed insurrection and secession on that same day..... the ihopehefails crowd who hasn't shut up for 10 seconds.

but... he should find the cojones to not give a flying... and for some reason, he's been trying to get everyone to sing kumbaya and it isn't going to happen.

so i don't think ANYONE should keep him from running his government. Dubya acted like he had a mandate even when he lost the popular vote and was appointed to the office. Obama had a mandate and acted like he was suffering from stockholm syndrome.

 

[Murf76]

Where were Chris Dodd and Barney Frank and even Barack Obama as a sitting U.S. Senator when this bubble was ballooning up?

To claim that "repubs" and "rightwingnuts" caused the problem is completely partisan and myopic. G.W. tried to reel in Fannie and Freddie four times, if memory serves. And no one listened. They were ALL too busy pandering for votes by loosening lending standards.

You know, Republicanism DOES recognize the need for some government regulation. We just ask that it not be a Sherman Tank when a flyswatter will do. Greed is as natural to human beings as compassion. Both most be regulated by logic. That's why we bother "regulating" at all... to curb our natural excesses. We can't be Constitutional Republicans without recognizing the validity of the enumerated power to regulate placed with Congress.

But at the bottom line, these people left the cookie jar out... all of them, Democrats and Republicans alike. And now they want to point the finger of blame.. like it wasn't their JOB to mind the cookie jar.

Your anger is misplaced if you only blame half of them. That means the other half go about their merry way, spreading more misery as they go, because the problem won't get solved until they recognize what they did wrong and then do what's necessary to correct it.

Chris Dodd and Barney Frank were a tiny part of the problem. The main part of the problem was banks being deregulated. I can also attest, having done more than my share of closings for people during the boom, that the mortgage brokers were encouraging people to take ARM's which they knew would balloon five years later. They kept telling people to re-fi, take out tons of cash to re-do their homes or whatever else and then re-fi again five years later to beat the ARM. The problem was when they finally went to re-fi, their house wasn't worth the amount they needed to pull out to pay the prior mortgage...

Mostly it came from a combination of non-enforcement by the SEC which led to some truly bizarre risk-taking behavior on the part of wall street and the bundlng of bad debt by the banks.

I have yet to see a repub who doesn't lose his/her mind when you talk about regulation of the stock market or banks or any other corporate entity,... and if you want to fix this, THAT is what has to be done. And, fwiw, i see those corporatist attitudes as being the cause of most of our problems right now. So you'll forgive me if I don't rend my clothes over barney frank and chris dodd.

btw, mostly, the banks knew that someone making $100,000 couldn't afford a $750,000 house. Where was their risk assessment?

Who needs a risk assessment when you've got Freddie and Fannie?

Government backed loans like FHA and VA, and quasi-government backed loans means you don't have to assess risk. Freddie and Fanny might not have been overtly backed, but it was always clear they'd not be allowed to fail. These loans could be bundled and traded as IF they were good because they were guaranteed not to fail.

It's not the bank's job and it's not Wall Street's job... to mind the cookie jar. Their jobs are to make as much CASH as they can. It's all they're good at.... making money. We didn't elect THEM to protect our economy. We elected Barney Frank.. and Chris Dodd... and every other representative, regardless of party, who sits on the banking commission and who makes law.

You're trying to impose a moral obligation on something which doesn't possess an innate sense of conscience. The loan officer who issues the ARM is only guilty of a crime... when he breaks the law. He might "feel bad" about it, but he's not culpable to any but God and his own conscience. And "feeling bad" doesn't feed the bulldog, does it? If it did, we wouldn't NEED to regulate. If people just automatically did the right thing, we wouldn't need laws to make them do the right thing. Even the "free market" can't enforce good behavior when there's no risk, no down-side.



Understand that these faulty "regulators" don't have to answer for their piss-poor performance if it's satisfactory to YOU. If they can keep you defending them and voting them into office... they're off the hook, scot-free, and out pandering their tiny black hearts out.


p.s. If Barney Frank was YOUR employee... would you fire him?

 

[Midnight Marauder]

He needs to shut down the loons so he can run his govenment.

What "loons" are stopping him from doing anything he wants?

cute.

ah.. see this is where my issue with him is. the loons are the noisemakers who started the day he was elected...and the sorelosers who started talking about an armed insurrection and secession on that same day..... the ihopehefails crowd who hasn't shut up for 10 seconds.

but... he should find the cojones to not give a flying... and for some reason, he's been trying to get everyone to sing kumbaya and it isn't going to happen.

so i don't think ANYONE should keep him from running his government. Dubya acted like he had a mandate even when he lost the popular vote and was appointed to the office. Obama had a mandate and acted like he was suffering from stockholm syndrome.

The noise you're describing doesn't have one effect on his governing. If you perceive it does, he's got a really big problem.

But it's a problem with HIM, not the noisemakers. They are always going to be there and always have been there.