In All Honesty: Selective Application of the First Amendment

[martybegan]

so let me get this straight, Marty.

Mutiliating a child's genitals without his consent- Perfectly okay with you because it's religion.

Three adults entering into a sexual relationship with full knowledge and consent- totally against the law. Even if a religion condones it.

Male circumcsion is not mutilation, as opposed to any non symbolic form of female circumcsion, which is a mutilation. Also until thier ass is 18 a child is the repsonsibility of a parent. Want to change that? make the age of majority less.

I'm circumcised and I dont feel mutliated, it makes it easier to keep my wang cleaned.

If the people of a state want to allow plural marriage, then it is up to the state's people via the legislature to allow it, not some judge making up a right that doesnt exist.

Also, a religon such as splinter mormonism can still perform a religous "marriage" between multiple woman and a single man, that marriage is just not recognized by the state. The religous ceremony, however is not impacted in any way, nor is the communties own recognition of said marriage.

 

[JoeB131]

Okay, so you are for selective religious freedom. Got it.

 

[martybegan]

Okay, so you are for selective religious freedom. Got it.

Not selective at all. The 1st amendment applies rigerously, with a strict interpretation and erring on the side of allowing a religous practice as opposed to saying it can be restricted via state or federal law.

What you are going for is me saying "no freedom is absolute" and then you would think you have a "gotcha" on the 2nd amendment. However the 2nd amendment allows you to own firearms, it does not allow you to go shooting people. Once you shoot a person, you have violated THIER rights, and thus your action is not protected.

The same goes for a religous practice of for a first example, something as innoccous as plural marriage that is only recognized by the church you are in. You can have the ceremony, people can treat you as married, you can call the person your wife. However if you try to get a government issued marriage certificate for any wife after #1, you will either be denied, or if you get it without mentioning the fact you have a 1st wife, you would be guilty of bigamy.

In the example of something not so innoccous, say human sacrifice, you can say all you want that its a great idea and part of my religion, however if you act on it, even with a willing participant in an area that bans murder (most do) you would be guilty of murder and punished accordingly.

 

[JoeB131]

Marty, I think I hit a "gotcha" on it when you said that mutiliating a child for religious reasons is okay because you wouldn't want to interfere with their religion or anything.

Circumcission has no medical value.

 

[martybegan]

Marty, I think I hit a "gotcha" on it when you said that mutiliating a child for religious reasons is okay because you wouldn't want to interfere with their religion or anything.

Circumcission has no medical value.

Studies beg to differ.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/27/science/benefits-of-circumcision-outweigh-risks-pediatric-group-says.html?_r=0

Now female circumcsion is another thing entirely and should be illegal.

 

[Nosmo King]

What surprises me is how some Conservatives can see all this flexibility in the First Amendment when they say Islam should be banned here in America, but see absolutely no wiggle room in the Second Amendment after some nut shoots 20 first graders with a semi-automatic weapon fitted with a high capacity ammunition magazine.

Apparently the rights of practicing Muslims is not as dear as the right to carry weapons best suited for well regulated militias.

Could it be fairly said that Conservatism is a fear based ideology? They fear the American Muslim and embrace the fear of assault weapons.

 

[martybegan]

What surprises me is how some Conservatives can see all this flexibility in the First Amendment when they say Islam should be banned here in America, but see absolutely no wiggle room in the Second Amendment after some nut shoots 20 first graders with a semi-automatic weapon fitted with a high capacity ammunition magazine.

Apparently the rights of practicing Muslims is not as dear as the right to carry weapons best suited for well regulated militias.

Could it be fairly said that Conservatism is a fear based ideology? They fear the American Muslim and embrace the fear of assault weapons.

I see the same amount of wiggle room, i.e. strict scrutiny and deferring to the right prior to allowing any legislative body to make a rule against it.

The 2nd amendment gives you the right to own a firearm, it doesnt give you the right to shoot someone with it without cause.

The 1st amendment gives some asshole Imam the right to scream "Death to America" on american soil, it does not give him the right to be involved in a conspiracy or direct action to bring said result about.

 

[protectionist]

Listen to yourselves. Just stop and listen. Especially those who call themselves constitutionalists and lovers of the Constitution. This is the one and only time I will address my conservative brethren for being bigoted, because frankly, bluntly, that's all I have seen here and there in threads regarding Islam and how it should be banished from America. I will not sit here and tolerate this any further. If you value honesty, take heed. If not, carry on, because this would sadly not apply to you.

So you want to ban a religion from practicing in America? Why? So now we are suddenly choosing to selectively apply the First Amendment? To what end? How would you feel if Christianity or Judaism were banned? How would you feel if someone started selectively applying the Constitution such an end? You would most likely exclaim "what about my freedom of religion?! What about my rights?!" However, why is it fair for you to have your faith, but for Muslim to not have his or hers?

Just because you do not believe what they believe does not mean you be allowed ban them from practicing their beliefs. I pose this question: Just what kind of country would we be if we started picking and choosing what types of people and religions we tolerated within our borders? What precedent would that set? A dangerous one.

Woe unto us when we presume to call ourselves "the land of the free", if we decided to start banning whole religions from American soil. Hail to you, self proclaimed defenders of freedom, arbiters of justice, and champions of equality; wanting to take freedom, deny justice, and withhold equality from a certain religion for the sakes of a whim. Shame on you as well. I will defend the rights of any individual to practice his faith, because I wish to have the same. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you","Judge not, lest ye be judged", "Love one another", "Love thine enemies as yourself," the Bible says.

This kind of behavior was exactly why I removed myself from the Republican party and from the two party system in general. It is displays like this that show me both parties are callous and bigoted. Neither exudes any semblance or tolerance towards other people who happen to be different from them. As one who loves his country, it angers me and saddens me to see it. Dare we call ourselves "united" anymore?

I am a conservative libertarian, because if I am to be one, I must apply the Constitution I revere fairly and equally. Yes, that means granting rights to people who practice and engage in things I detest with a passion. Things that I as a Christian would condemn as sinful. I would be a hypocrite if I sat here and denied someone their rights merely for the sake of my beliefs.

I can practice my beliefs and they can practice theirs. What is done against God's will by another man is for them to settle between them, not for me to interfere. Oh, and this does work both ways. If I found a Muslim denying someone their freedoms and faith, I would not hesitate to react in the same way I have now. Not with violence, but with cold hard truth. I could go on as to how this applies to other facets of my worldview, but then again, who has that much time and patience?

Of course, what does some snot nosed 26 year old know? He barely has enough experience to lecture others on tolerance, justice or equality. He has barely lived life to understand any of these things, apparently. Carry on.

A bunch of criminals come along, commit every despicable immoral act you can think of, write these in a book, pretend it came from God, pretend all this is a religion, and you fall for it. How very

 

[TemplarKormac]

Listen to yourselves. Just stop and listen. Especially those who call themselves constitutionalists and lovers of the Constitution. This is the one and only time I will address my conservative brethren for being bigoted, because frankly, bluntly, that's all I have seen here and there in threads regarding Islam and how it should be banished from America. I will not sit here and tolerate this any further. If you value honesty, take heed. If not, carry on, because this would sadly not apply to you.

So you want to ban a religion from practicing in America? Why? So now we are suddenly choosing to selectively apply the First Amendment? To what end? How would you feel if Christianity or Judaism were banned? How would you feel if someone started selectively applying the Constitution such an end? You would most likely exclaim "what about my freedom of religion?! What about my rights?!" However, why is it fair for you to have your faith, but for Muslim to not have his or hers?

Just because you do not believe what they believe does not mean you be allowed ban them from practicing their beliefs. I pose this question: Just what kind of country would we be if we started picking and choosing what types of people and religions we tolerated within our borders? What precedent would that set? A dangerous one.

Woe unto us when we presume to call ourselves "the land of the free", if we decided to start banning whole religions from American soil. Hail to you, self proclaimed defenders of freedom, arbiters of justice, and champions of equality; wanting to take freedom, deny justice, and withhold equality from a certain religion for the sakes of a whim. Shame on you as well. I will defend the rights of any individual to practice his faith, because I wish to have the same. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you","Judge not, lest ye be judged", "Love one another", "Love thine enemies as yourself," the Bible says.

This kind of behavior was exactly why I removed myself from the Republican party and from the two party system in general. It is displays like this that show me both parties are callous and bigoted. Neither exudes any semblance or tolerance towards other people who happen to be different from them. As one who loves his country, it angers me and saddens me to see it. Dare we call ourselves "united" anymore?

I am a conservative libertarian, because if I am to be one, I must apply the Constitution I revere fairly and equally. Yes, that means granting rights to people who practice and engage in things I detest with a passion. Things that I as a Christian would condemn as sinful. I would be a hypocrite if I sat here and denied someone their rights merely for the sake of my beliefs.

I can practice my beliefs and they can practice theirs. What is done against God's will by another man is for them to settle between them, not for me to interfere. Oh, and this does work both ways. If I found a Muslim denying someone their freedoms and faith, I would not hesitate to react in the same way I have now. Not with violence, but with cold hard truth. I could go on as to how this applies to other facets of my worldview, but then again, who has that much time and patience?

Of course, what does some snot nosed 26 year old know? He barely has enough experience to lecture others on tolerance, justice or equality. He has barely lived life to understand any of these things, apparently. Carry on.

A bunch of criminals come along, commit every despicable immoral act you can think of, write these in a book, pretend it came from God, pretend all this is a religion, and you fall for it. How very

So to combat criminality we become criminals ourselves? How dare you raise the conservative banner? How dare you claim to espouse constitutional freedom when you are willing to deny it to one group or ethnicity? How intolerant are you? Who are you to deny rights promised to all? By what sorcery did you suddenly become a god among men?

Freedom of religion means ALL RELIGIONS. If you can't get it through your thick head, that's a travesty. You are are nothing but a fascist, of equal but polar opposite to the tyrant Barack Hussein Obama, that resides in the Oval Office. He hates Christians, you hate Muslims. He wants to end the Constitution, YOU want to pervert it. You are what's wrong with America. To me, I see no difference between the two of you.

You both make me sick!

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Listen to yourselves. Just stop and listen. Especially those who call themselves constitutionalists and lovers of the Constitution. This is the one and only time I will address my conservative brethren for being bigoted, because frankly, bluntly, that's all I have seen here and there in threads regarding Islam and how it should be banished from America. I will not sit here and tolerate this any further. If you value honesty, take heed. If not, carry on, because this would sadly not apply to you.

So you want to ban a religion from practicing in America? Why? So now we are suddenly choosing to selectively apply the First Amendment? To what end? How would you feel if Christianity or Judaism were banned? How would you feel if someone started selectively applying the Constitution such an end? You would most likely exclaim "what about my freedom of religion?! What about my rights?!" However, why is it fair for you to have your faith, but for Muslim to not have his or hers?

Just because you do not believe what they believe does not mean you be allowed ban them from practicing their beliefs. I pose this question: Just what kind of country would we be if we started picking and choosing what types of people and religions we tolerated within our borders? What precedent would that set? A dangerous one.

Woe unto us when we presume to call ourselves "the land of the free", if we decided to start banning whole religions from American soil. Hail to you, self proclaimed defenders of freedom, arbiters of justice, and champions of equality; wanting to take freedom, deny justice, and withhold equality from a certain religion for the sakes of a whim. Shame on you as well. I will defend the rights of any individual to practice his faith, because I wish to have the same. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you","Judge not, lest ye be judged", "Love one another", "Love thine enemies as yourself," the Bible says.

This kind of behavior was exactly why I removed myself from the Republican party and from the two party system in general. It is displays like this that show me both parties are callous and bigoted. Neither exudes any semblance or tolerance towards other people who happen to be different from them. As one who loves his country, it angers me and saddens me to see it. Dare we call ourselves "united" anymore?

I am a conservative libertarian, because if I am to be one, I must apply the Constitution I revere fairly and equally. Yes, that means granting rights to people who practice and engage in things I detest with a passion. Things that I as a Christian would condemn as sinful. I would be a hypocrite if I sat here and denied someone their rights merely for the sake of my beliefs.

I can practice my beliefs and they can practice theirs. What is done against God's will by another man is for them to settle between them, not for me to interfere. Oh, and this does work both ways. If I found a Muslim denying someone their freedoms and faith, I would not hesitate to react in the same way I have now. Not with violence, but with cold hard truth. I could go on as to how this applies to other facets of my worldview, but then again, who has that much time and patience?

Of course, what does some snot nosed 26 year old know? He barely has enough experience to lecture others on tolerance, justice or equality. He has barely lived life to understand any of these things, apparently. Carry on.

The 1st Amendment does NOT protect illegal activity. A religion may NOT practice illegal activity. Terrorism is illegal. Preaching terrorism is illegal, supporting terrorism is illegal advocating terrorism is illegal.

Now what Religion does all 3 of those things?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Listen to yourselves. Just stop and listen. Especially those who call themselves constitutionalists and lovers of the Constitution. This is the one and only time I will address my conservative brethren for being bigoted, because frankly, bluntly, that's all I have seen here and there in threads regarding Islam and how it should be banished from America. I will not sit here and tolerate this any further. If you value honesty, take heed. If not, carry on, because this would sadly not apply to you.

So you want to ban a religion from practicing in America? Why? So now we are suddenly choosing to selectively apply the First Amendment? To what end? How would you feel if Christianity or Judaism were banned? How would you feel if someone started selectively applying the Constitution such an end? You would most likely exclaim "what about my freedom of religion?! What about my rights?!" However, why is it fair for you to have your faith, but for Muslim to not have his or hers?

Just because you do not believe what they believe does not mean you be allowed ban them from practicing their beliefs. I pose this question: Just what kind of country would we be if we started picking and choosing what types of people and religions we tolerated within our borders? What precedent would that set? A dangerous one.

Woe unto us when we presume to call ourselves "the land of the free", if we decided to start banning whole religions from American soil. Hail to you, self proclaimed defenders of freedom, arbiters of justice, and champions of equality; wanting to take freedom, deny justice, and withhold equality from a certain religion for the sakes of a whim. Shame on you as well. I will defend the rights of any individual to practice his faith, because I wish to have the same. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you","Judge not, lest ye be judged", "Love one another", "Love thine enemies as yourself," the Bible says.

This kind of behavior was exactly why I removed myself from the Republican party and from the two party system in general. It is displays like this that show me both parties are callous and bigoted. Neither exudes any semblance or tolerance towards other people who happen to be different from them. As one who loves his country, it angers me and saddens me to see it. Dare we call ourselves "united" anymore?

I am a conservative libertarian, because if I am to be one, I must apply the Constitution I revere fairly and equally. Yes, that means granting rights to people who practice and engage in things I detest with a passion. Things that I as a Christian would condemn as sinful. I would be a hypocrite if I sat here and denied someone their rights merely for the sake of my beliefs.

I can practice my beliefs and they can practice theirs. What is done against God's will by another man is for them to settle between them, not for me to interfere. Oh, and this does work both ways. If I found a Muslim denying someone their freedoms and faith, I would not hesitate to react in the same way I have now. Not with violence, but with cold hard truth. I could go on as to how this applies to other facets of my worldview, but then again, who has that much time and patience?

Of course, what does some snot nosed 26 year old know? He barely has enough experience to lecture others on tolerance, justice or equality. He has barely lived life to understand any of these things, apparently. Carry on.

The 1st Amendment does NOT protect illegal activity. A religion may NOT practice illegal activity. Terrorism is illegal. Preaching terrorism is illegal, supporting terrorism is illegal advocating terrorism is illegal.

Now what Religion does all 3 of those things?

The 1st Amendment does not support banning a religion or a faith because someone stereotypically perceives it to be 'dangerous.' Given your username, Gunnery Sergeant, did you not fight to protect the freedoms of everyone? Or just everyone except Muslims?

So, are ALL Muslims committing illegal activities? What Christians aren't? There are some very 'out there' extremist Christians in America that we fail to even acknowledge. I am by no means excusing what the Islamic terrorists do, sir. Just because they're Muslims does not automatically make what they're doing illegal now does it? Some of them are living normal lives just like you and I who don't want anything to do with terrorism or killing. It doesn't make them all terrorists, now does it? Does that automatically mean they support terrorism? Being a Muslim does not automatically make them a criminal.

And what knowledge of Islam do you have that isn't gleaned from service in the military or from television? Would it surprise you to know that there are those in the Christian faith who preach terrorism, advocate terrorism and enact it as well? Remember Timothy McVeigh? Anders Behring Breivik? The KKK? Eric Robert Rudolph? So while we accuse Islam of being those things, we forget to look at our faith and see that there are similarities in those respective areas.

We both have extremist elements, sir. And to ban a faith and deny them (those who had nothing to do with their fringe elements) their right to practice their faith for the actions of their fringe element is utterly impetuous and blatantly hypocritical. I am purely surprised that nobody learned anything from the Civil Rights Era, the Japanese Internment Camps, the overt discrimination against the Chinese in the early 1900's, Slavery, The Trail of Tears, or Jim Crow.

I thought we had grown as a country, but here we are wanting to wipe whole religions out of our own society. It's shocking. When you start with one, it then finds another and then another. It will start a chain reaction with far reaching implications. Politicians will use the banishment of Islam as a template for way to ban other faiths, including yours and mine. I will not sit here and tolerate such behavior.

Not only would we be violating the 1st Amendment by banishing Islam from our country, we would be breaching a Muslim's 14th Amendment rights as well, should we ever embark down this path, we can completely disregard equal treatment under the law, as well as a person's right to worship or believe the way they want to. Just what kind of country would we turn ourselves into if we gave in to this kind of idea?

Have any of you ever considered the consequences of banning a religion in America? The Constitutional implications? Why must we resort to pigeonholing whole religions into negative categories like "terrorist" or "criminal"? I've seen some Muslims in person. I've even gone to school with one. None of them wanted to kill me. I feel that unless they do something illegal, they shouldn't automatically be branded as criminals.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Listen to yourselves. Just stop and listen. Especially those who call themselves constitutionalists and lovers of the Constitution. This is the one and only time I will address my conservative brethren for being bigoted, because frankly, bluntly, that's all I have seen here and there in threads regarding Islam and how it should be banished from America. I will not sit here and tolerate this any further. If you value honesty, take heed. If not, carry on, because this would sadly not apply to you.

So you want to ban a religion from practicing in America? Why? So now we are suddenly choosing to selectively apply the First Amendment? To what end? How would you feel if Christianity or Judaism were banned? How would you feel if someone started selectively applying the Constitution such an end? You would most likely exclaim "what about my freedom of religion?! What about my rights?!" However, why is it fair for you to have your faith, but for Muslim to not have his or hers?

Just because you do not believe what they believe does not mean you be allowed ban them from practicing their beliefs. I pose this question: Just what kind of country would we be if we started picking and choosing what types of people and religions we tolerated within our borders? What precedent would that set? A dangerous one.

Woe unto us when we presume to call ourselves "the land of the free", if we decided to start banning whole religions from American soil. Hail to you, self proclaimed defenders of freedom, arbiters of justice, and champions of equality; wanting to take freedom, deny justice, and withhold equality from a certain religion for the sakes of a whim. Shame on you as well. I will defend the rights of any individual to practice his faith, because I wish to have the same. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you","Judge not, lest ye be judged", "Love one another", "Love thine enemies as yourself," the Bible says.

This kind of behavior was exactly why I removed myself from the Republican party and from the two party system in general. It is displays like this that show me both parties are callous and bigoted. Neither exudes any semblance or tolerance towards other people who happen to be different from them. As one who loves his country, it angers me and saddens me to see it. Dare we call ourselves "united" anymore?

I am a conservative libertarian, because if I am to be one, I must apply the Constitution I revere fairly and equally. Yes, that means granting rights to people who practice and engage in things I detest with a passion. Things that I as a Christian would condemn as sinful. I would be a hypocrite if I sat here and denied someone their rights merely for the sake of my beliefs.

I can practice my beliefs and they can practice theirs. What is done against God's will by another man is for them to settle between them, not for me to interfere. Oh, and this does work both ways. If I found a Muslim denying someone their freedoms and faith, I would not hesitate to react in the same way I have now. Not with violence, but with cold hard truth. I could go on as to how this applies to other facets of my worldview, but then again, who has that much time and patience?

Of course, what does some snot nosed 26 year old know? He barely has enough experience to lecture others on tolerance, justice or equality. He has barely lived life to understand any of these things, apparently. Carry on.

A bunch of criminals come along, commit every despicable immoral act you can think of, write these in a book, pretend it came from God, pretend all this is a religion, and you fall for it. How very

So to combat criminality we become criminals ourselves? How dare you raise the conservative banner? How dare you claim to espouse constitutional freedom when you are willing to deny it to one group or ethnicity? How intolerant are you? Who are you to deny rights promised to all? By what sorcery did you suddenly become a god among men?

Freedom of religion means ALL RELIGIONS. If you can't get it through your thick head, that's a travesty. You are are nothing but a fascist, of equal but polar opposite to the tyrant Barack Hussein Obama, that resides in the Oval Office. He hates Christians, you hate Muslims. He wants to end the Constitution, YOU want to pervert it. You are what's wrong with America. To me, I see no difference between the two of you.

You both make me sick!

Obama hates Christians and wants to end the Constitution?

Yes. You are very mature. Very measured.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Listen to yourselves. Just stop and listen. Especially those who call themselves constitutionalists and lovers of the Constitution. This is the one and only time I will address my conservative brethren for being bigoted, because frankly, bluntly, that's all I have seen here and there in threads regarding Islam and how it should be banished from America. I will not sit here and tolerate this any further. If you value honesty, take heed. If not, carry on, because this would sadly not apply to you.

So you want to ban a religion from practicing in America? Why? So now we are suddenly choosing to selectively apply the First Amendment? To what end? How would you feel if Christianity or Judaism were banned? How would you feel if someone started selectively applying the Constitution such an end? You would most likely exclaim "what about my freedom of religion?! What about my rights?!" However, why is it fair for you to have your faith, but for Muslim to not have his or hers?

Just because you do not believe what they believe does not mean you be allowed ban them from practicing their beliefs. I pose this question: Just what kind of country would we be if we started picking and choosing what types of people and religions we tolerated within our borders? What precedent would that set? A dangerous one.

Woe unto us when we presume to call ourselves "the land of the free", if we decided to start banning whole religions from American soil. Hail to you, self proclaimed defenders of freedom, arbiters of justice, and champions of equality; wanting to take freedom, deny justice, and withhold equality from a certain religion for the sakes of a whim. Shame on you as well. I will defend the rights of any individual to practice his faith, because I wish to have the same. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you","Judge not, lest ye be judged", "Love one another", "Love thine enemies as yourself," the Bible says.

This kind of behavior was exactly why I removed myself from the Republican party and from the two party system in general. It is displays like this that show me both parties are callous and bigoted. Neither exudes any semblance or tolerance towards other people who happen to be different from them. As one who loves his country, it angers me and saddens me to see it. Dare we call ourselves "united" anymore?

I am a conservative libertarian, because if I am to be one, I must apply the Constitution I revere fairly and equally. Yes, that means granting rights to people who practice and engage in things I detest with a passion. Things that I as a Christian would condemn as sinful. I would be a hypocrite if I sat here and denied someone their rights merely for the sake of my beliefs.

I can practice my beliefs and they can practice theirs. What is done against God's will by another man is for them to settle between them, not for me to interfere. Oh, and this does work both ways. If I found a Muslim denying someone their freedoms and faith, I would not hesitate to react in the same way I have now. Not with violence, but with cold hard truth. I could go on as to how this applies to other facets of my worldview, but then again, who has that much time and patience?

Of course, what does some snot nosed 26 year old know? He barely has enough experience to lecture others on tolerance, justice or equality. He has barely lived life to understand any of these things, apparently. Carry on.

The 1st Amendment does NOT protect illegal activity. A religion may NOT practice illegal activity. Terrorism is illegal. Preaching terrorism is illegal, supporting terrorism is illegal advocating terrorism is illegal.

Now what Religion does all 3 of those things?

The 1st Amendment does not support banning a religion or a faith because someone stereotypically perceives it to be 'dangerous.' Given your username, Gunnery Sergeant, did you not fight to protect the freedoms of everyone? Or just everyone except Muslims?

So, are ALL Muslims committing illegal activities? What Christians aren't? There are some very 'out there' extremist Christians in America that we fail to even acknowledge. I am by no means excusing what the Islamic terrorists do, sir. Just because they're Muslims does not automatically make what they're doing illegal now does it? Some of them are living normal lives just like you and I who don't want It doesn't make them all terrorists, now does it? Does that automatically mean they support terrorism? Being a Muslim does not automatically make them a criminal.

And what knowledge of Islam do you have that isn't gleaned from service in the military or from television? Would it surprise you to know that there are those in the Christian faith who preach terrorism, advocate terrorism and enact it as well? Remember Timothy McVeigh? The KKK? Eric Robert Rudolph? So while we accuse Islam of being those things, we forget to look at our faith and see that there are similarities in those respective areas.

We both have extremist elements, sir. And to ban a faith and deny them (those who had nothing to do with their fringe elements) their right to practice their faith for the actions of their fringe element is utterly impetuous and blatantly hypocritical. I am purely surprised that nobody learned anything from the Civil Rights Era, the Japanese Internment Camps, the overt discrimination against the Chinese in the early 1900's, Slavery, The Trail of Tears, or Jim Crow.

I thought we had grown as a country, but here we are wanting to wipe whole religions out of our own society. It's shocking. When you start with one, it then finds another and then another. It will start a chain reaction with far reaching implications. Politicians will use the banishment of Islam as a template for way to ban other faiths, including yours and mine. I will not sit here and tolerate such behavior.

Not only would we be violating the 1st Amendment by banishing Islam from our country, we would be reaching a Muslim's 14th Amendment rights as well, should we ever embark down this path, we can completely disregard equal treatment under the law, as well as a person's right to worship or believe the way they want to. Just what kind of country would we turn ourselves into if we gave in to this kind of idea?

Have any of you ever considered the consequences of banning a religion in America? The Constitutional implications? Why must we resort to pigeonholing whole religions into negative categories like "terrorist" or "criminal"? I've seen some Muslims in person. I've even gone to school with one. None of them wanted to kill me. I feel that unless they do something illegal, they shouldn't automatically be branded as criminals.

This bandwidth will never be recovered.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Whatever it is your saying, LL, just can it will you? You impulsive troll.

 

[KokomoJojo]

Woe unto us when we presume to call ourselves "the land of the free", if we decided to start banning whole religions from American soil.

thats not why we are called the land of the free.

we are called the land of the "free to" (privileges), not the land of the "free from" (prerogative)

If you come up with a religion that is not acknowledged by the state they simply tell you its not a religion in direct violation of the constitution.

Oh wait a minute, states constitutions only grant you permission to "worship" (pray), not exercise.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Listen to yourselves. Just stop and listen. Especially those who call themselves constitutionalists and lovers of the Constitution. This is the one and only time I will address my conservative brethren for being bigoted, because frankly, bluntly, that's all I have seen here and there in threads regarding Islam and how it should be banished from America. I will not sit here and tolerate this any further. If you value honesty, take heed. If not, carry on, because this would sadly not apply to you.

So you want to ban a religion from practicing in America? Why? So now we are suddenly choosing to selectively apply the First Amendment? To what end? How would you feel if Christianity or Judaism were banned? How would you feel if someone started selectively applying the Constitution such an end? You would most likely exclaim "what about my freedom of religion?! What about my rights?!" However, why is it fair for you to have your faith, but for Muslim to not have his or hers?

Just because you do not believe what they believe does not mean you be allowed ban them from practicing their beliefs. I pose this question: Just what kind of country would we be if we started picking and choosing what types of people and religions we tolerated within our borders? What precedent would that set? A dangerous one.

Woe unto us when we presume to call ourselves "the land of the free", if we decided to start banning whole religions from American soil. Hail to you, self proclaimed defenders of freedom, arbiters of justice, and champions of equality; wanting to take freedom, deny justice, and withhold equality from a certain religion for the sakes of a whim. Shame on you as well. I will defend the rights of any individual to practice his faith, because I wish to have the same. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you","Judge not, lest ye be judged", "Love one another", "Love thine enemies as yourself," the Bible says.

This kind of behavior was exactly why I removed myself from the Republican party and from the two party system in general. It is displays like this that show me both parties are callous and bigoted. Neither exudes any semblance or tolerance towards other people who happen to be different from them. As one who loves his country, it angers me and saddens me to see it. Dare we call ourselves "united" anymore?

I am a conservative libertarian, because if I am to be one, I must apply the Constitution I revere fairly and equally. Yes, that means granting rights to people who practice and engage in things I detest with a passion. Things that I as a Christian would condemn as sinful. I would be a hypocrite if I sat here and denied someone their rights merely for the sake of my beliefs.

I can practice my beliefs and they can practice theirs. What is done against God's will by another man is for them to settle between them, not for me to interfere. Oh, and this does work both ways. If I found a Muslim denying someone their freedoms and faith, I would not hesitate to react in the same way I have now. Not with violence, but with cold hard truth. I could go on as to how this applies to other facets of my worldview, but then again, who has that much time and patience?

Of course, what does some snot nosed 26 year old know? He barely has enough experience to lecture others on tolerance, justice or equality. He has barely lived life to understand any of these things, apparently. Carry on.

26 years old?

YOU??

Naw...............

Ain't no way.