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OCA said:Again, someone who can't see the bigger picture. I'll keep trying with you though, I think you are bendable.
Citizenship is a right from birth, yes, but there should be a point along the way of life where you are audited, and if you are deemed to be way to far over on the siphoning side and nvery little producing or contributions to society then you get revoked and off you go out of this fucking country. We have a lot of dead weight in this country that needs to be trimmed.
archangel said:You claim to own a small business...so how many illegals do you employee? If I get my way and start a classic airline with deferrence to "Legal" employees am I going against that which is (PC)correct...maybe...so am I to assume that I will never get off the ground...how sad!
OCA said:Arch i'm not following, please clarify because i'm probably too stupid to get what you are saying.
As for the business, its a small cleaning business, got tired of working for others after college and saw a need amongst people I knew, its just me, my wife on occasion and a high school kid who comes occasionally when I need him......I pay him under the table too but thats just taxes so who gives a fuck, BTW the kid is Irish/Scot, no illegals working for me.
archangel said:you just answered my question...you hire 'no' illegals yet pay under the table...for tax purposes...yet you are adament on accepting illegal workers into this country..for what... posterities sake? Now I am really confused!
no1tovote4 said:The Founders realized that changing the laws after the fact and imprisoning people retroactively was an injustice. This too would be an injustice. We cannot ignore that we allowed them in and benefitted from their being here in many ways that gave us incentive to ignore their presence.
It is far more important to me to close the border so that all who enter are known to us than it is to punish people we gave implicit permission to be here through our own actions.
Basically it is like the analogy I used earlier. Buying a car and giving it to another but keeping it in your own name then later, after years of them using the vehicle, without warning calling the cops and reporting it stolen.
GunnyL said:So let's say for the sake of argument, we let build an wall no one can get through (yeah, right). All illegals currently in the US are granted amnesty; which, by implication, requires legal documentation.
Suddenly they have to live legally within our system -- pay taxes, get their own insurance, etc. This of course demands higher wages -- after all, one basis of the argument is that they are working for less pay. But with citizenship comes a higher "overhead."
Who fills their shoes on the menial labor rung of the ladder?
Seems to me, whether we grant them amnesty, OR deport them, we lose the menial labor for less pay group and the prices mentioned previously in this thread go up regardless.
dilloduck said:you nailed it---you work for lower wages until you need more--you think there will be a problem organizing them into a union?
GunnyL said:Well, sorta. My point is, with the cheap labor gone, does that not necessitate an increase in prices to cover the increase in wages?
dilloduck said:I think we're pretending that illegals will continue to accept low wages after they are granted amnesty so there will be no need to raise prices.
GunnyL said:Pretending is right. Citizenship/legitmate residence brings with it the aforementioned overhead which will require wage increases.
Either way, playing hot potato with the subject isn't making it go away.
rtwngAvngr said:So what. We can still change our minds, and reverse course. It's just like how our support of afghanistan hardliners againste the soviets didn't obligate us to support them forever. It's simply not a rational argument.
GunnyL said:So let's say for the sake of argument, we let build an wall no one can get through (yeah, right). All illegals currently in the US are granted amnesty; which, by implication, requires legal documentation.
Suddenly they have to live legally within our system -- pay taxes, get their own insurance, etc. This of course demands higher wages -- after all, one basis of the argument is that they are working for less pay. But with citizenship comes a higher "overhead."
Who fills their shoes on the menial labor rung of the ladder?
Seems to me, whether we grant them amnesty, OR deport them, we lose the menial labor for less pay group and the prices mentioned previously in this thread go up regardless.
dilloduck said:Not by a long shot--I'm sure you've had a chance to look at our state parks and camping areas in Texas. Infested.
rtwngAvngr said:So you don't think illegals coming here and sending their wages home is good for mexico? You need to do some reading.
Bullypulpit said:Of course they're sending wages home. It's why so many illlegals come here...So they can feed their families. Vicente Fox encourages illegals as he feels that it absolves him of any responsibility for them at home.
It's just another case of enforcing current law rather than passing a new one. Fine employers $10,000 for every illegal they hire, everytime they do so, and they'll soon find it cheaper to pay a living wage to US workers.
OCA said:You just hit the nail on the head in a roundabout way. Corporations run America, corporations want amnesty so amnesty is what we will get. Nobody is saying you are to blame for anything, in fact no one is to blame since for once the corporations are right we are going to do the right thing.
