Israel's Orthodox Protest Draft

[Lipush]

Picture of the day. Hareidi Jews on their way to the Anti-draft protest

 

[Roudy]

The fact that a segment society in Israel can hide behind ANYTHING is bad.
The fact that they are USING God is what makes it so disgusting.
Israel's internal economy and psychology can no longer support this nonsense and it's collapse is thankfully imminent.

Orthodox are like any other men...they should put on a uniform and defend Israel.Stop with the prayers and the studying and shit.

Defending Israel is not exactly a full-time job and Israel actually has more qualified citizens in the IDF than it needs (That's not MY opinion).

The issue with BEING a practicing Jew is the essence of why Israel is a Jewish State.
There is NO exclusivity between being JEWISH and Military service.

If these guys are as religious and orthodox as they claim, didn't The ancient Hebrews have to fight for their nation during King David's time?

 

[Hossfly]

Orthodox are like any other men...they should put on a uniform and defend Israel.Stop with the prayers and the studying and shit.

Defending Israel is not exactly a full-time job and Israel actually has more qualified citizens in the IDF than it needs (That's not MY opinion).

The issue with BEING a practicing Jew is the essence of why Israel is a Jewish State.
There is NO exclusivity between being JEWISH and Military service.

If these guys are as religious and orthodox as they claim, didn't The ancient Hebrews have to fight for their nation during King David's time?

If they don't want to fight because of religious views there's not much that can be done. I respect that. But the Army could train them to be medics, Rabbi's assistants and even Civil Affairs units. They say it takes 11 people to support 1 fighting soldier so there should be something for each whiner. Cooks, finance, personnel actions, etc. There are many support jobs.

 

[Coyote]

Somebody needs to try doing the 'roadmap' of denominations within each religion - at least as far as who recognizes who as being 'fellow co-religionists', LOL!

The image that comes to mind is a spider web produced by an arachnid on LSD

 

[Roudy]

My point is that nobody was as "religious" as the ancient Jews, and they found nothing in their religion or belief that forbid them from serving in the military to defend their nation. In fact, quite the opposite.

 

[Billo_Really]

There's more than one kind of Haredi Jews in Israel. There are those who're very involved and help and vote and respect the state.

And there are those like Satmar and Neturei Karta who do not. So it depends which kind of ultra orthodox you speak of.

Why should they respect the state, when the state doesn't respect their religion?

 

[toastman]

There's more than one kind of Haredi Jews in Israel. There are those who're very involved and help and vote and respect the state.

And there are those like Satmar and Neturei Karta who do not. So it depends which kind of ultra orthodox you speak of.

Why should they respect the state, when the state doesn't respect their religion?

How does the state not respect their religion?

 

[Indeependent]

Orthodox are like any other men...they should put on a uniform and defend Israel.Stop with the prayers and the studying and shit.

Defending Israel is not exactly a full-time job and Israel actually has more qualified citizens in the IDF than it needs (That's not MY opinion).

The issue with BEING a practicing Jew is the essence of why Israel is a Jewish State.
There is NO exclusivity between being JEWISH and Military service.

If these guys are as religious and orthodox as they claim, didn't The ancient Hebrews have to fight for their nation during King David's time?

Until the destruction of the First Temple, only the most God fearing were called to serve.

 

[Billo_Really]

How does the state not respect their religion?

They used it to create a nation against the teachings of the Torah.

The Israeli government has as much to do with Judaism, as the Nazis did with democracy.

Why would any orthodox jew fight for that?

 

[Indeependent]

How does the state not respect their religion?

They used it to create a nation against the teachings of the Torah.

The Israeli government has as much to do with Judaism, as the Nazis did with democracy.

Why would any orthodox jew fight for that?

Why do you insist on displaying your ignorance?
Do most priests rape little boys?
Over 90% of the Orthodox Jews in Israel serve in the IDF.
They are annoyed at the 10%, or less, who want the food stamps but won't serve.

 

[Kondor3]

I can see both sides of the argument...

1. Orthodox Jews who have religious objections to such national service... many countries, including the United States, make provision for Conscientious Objection based upon religious grounds...

...and...

2. Those service-shy Orthodox Jews live under the shield of the national government; protected by the efforts and sacrifices of their fellow citizens; they need to make a manpower contribution, via national defense or other national service...

-------------------

For my money - if I were king of the world - I would consider requiring them (those Orthodox Jews who refuse to serve in the IDF) to choose between (1) service in the IDF alongside everyone else, or (2) some other form of national service, for the same time-period required of those serving in the military.

As an incentive to choose the military, I would even consider conjuring-up three sets of National Benefits packages - one for those who served in the military (the best package of all), one for those who served in a lesser national-service capacity (a lesser package), and one for those who refused to serve at all (the least generous package); with those who could not serve (disability, circumstances, etc.) given the benefit of a doubt and accorded a good benefits package.

But that, too, opens-up a can of worms here and there.

Bottom line, this is an Israeli internal matter, and one that they must decide for themselves. If the majority of Israelis are OK with it, and none of that is too far out of line with commonly acceptable standards of behavior and human rights, then what the hell - have at it.

 

[Indeependent]

I can see both sides of the argument...

Orthodox Jews who have religious objections to such national service, and many countries, including the United States, make provision for Conscientious Objection based upon religious grounds...

...and...

Those serivice-shy Orthodox Jews live under the shield of the national government and are being protected by the efforts and sacrifices of their fellow citizens and need to begin making more of a manpower contribution to both national defense and national service...

-------------------

For my money - if I were king of the world - I would consider requiring them (those Orthodox Jews who refuse to serve in the IDF) to choose between (1) service in the IDF alongside everyone else, or (2) some other form of national service, for the same time-period required of those serving in the military.

As an incentive to choose the military, I would even consider conjuring-up three sets of National Benefits packages - one for those who served in the military (the best package of all), one for those who served in a lesser national-service capacity (a lesser package), and one for those who refused to serve at all (the least generous package)...

But that, too, opens-up a can of worms here and there.

Bottom line, this is an Israeli internal matter, and one that they must decide for themselves.

There IS another form of National Service that SOME of them are joining but MANY refuse to do even that.

 

[Coyote]

Picture of the day. Hareidi Jews on their way to the Anti-draft protest

Ok...so....

is he going in

or out


of the window?

Or is he stuck?

And, if he's stuck - does he go along for the ride?

 

[Hossfly]

I can see both sides of the argument...

Orthodox Jews who have religious objections to such national service, and many countries, including the United States, make provision for Conscientious Objection based upon religious grounds...

...and...

Those serivice-shy Orthodox Jews live under the shield of the national government and are being protected by the efforts and sacrifices of their fellow citizens and need to begin making more of a manpower contribution to both national defense and national service...

-------------------

For my money - if I were king of the world - I would consider requiring them (those Orthodox Jews who refuse to serve in the IDF) to choose between (1) service in the IDF alongside everyone else, or (2) some other form of national service, for the same time-period required of those serving in the military.

As an incentive to choose the military, I would even consider conjuring-up three sets of National Benefits packages - one for those who served in the military (the best package of all), one for those who served in a lesser national-service capacity (a lesser package), and one for those who refused to serve at all (the least generous package)...

But that, too, opens-up a can of worms here and there.

Bottom line, this is an Israeli internal matter, and one that they must decide for themselves.

There IS another form of National Service that SOME of them are joining but MANY refuse to do even that.

Put 'em on a road gang for six months, then ask 'em again.

 

[Hossfly]

Picture of the day. Hareidi Jews on their way to the Anti-draft protest

Ok...so....

is he going in

or out


of the window?

Or is he stuck?

And, if he's stuck - does he go along for the ride?

Trying to ride without paying the fare.

 

[Phoenall]

There's more than one kind of Haredi Jews in Israel. There are those who're very involved and help and vote and respect the state.

And there are those like Satmar and Neturei Karta who do not. So it depends which kind of ultra orthodox you speak of.

Why should they respect the state, when the state doesn't respect their religion?

Why should the state respect their flavour of Judaism when they don't respect the state. If they had any decency at all they would move away from Israel and create their own little nation somewhere.

 

[Kondor3]

I can see both sides of the argument...

Orthodox Jews who have religious objections to such national service, and many countries, including the United States, make provision for Conscientious Objection based upon religious grounds...

...and...

Those serivice-shy Orthodox Jews live under the shield of the national government and are being protected by the efforts and sacrifices of their fellow citizens and need to begin making more of a manpower contribution to both national defense and national service...

-------------------

For my money - if I were king of the world - I would consider requiring them (those Orthodox Jews who refuse to serve in the IDF) to choose between (1) service in the IDF alongside everyone else, or (2) some other form of national service, for the same time-period required of those serving in the military.

As an incentive to choose the military, I would even consider conjuring-up three sets of National Benefits packages - one for those who served in the military (the best package of all), one for those who served in a lesser national-service capacity (a lesser package), and one for those who refused to serve at all (the least generous package)...

But that, too, opens-up a can of worms here and there.

Bottom line, this is an Israeli internal matter, and one that they must decide for themselves.

There IS another form of National Service that SOME of them are joining but MANY refuse to do even that.

Oh, I believe it... sounds like it's this collection of hard-line 'Non-Contributors' who are being perceived as the problem, and, I guess, the Israelis are revisiting what to do about such folk. In a nation of 330,000,000 like ours, we can afford to be more generous about 'Non-Contributors'. In a nation of 3,000,000 (so-to-speak), I can understand why it's being viewed less generously. Like I said, I can see both sides of the argument, although I'd tend to land on the side of those who insist upon everyone contributing their fair share; at least at first glance.

 

[Phoenall]

How does the state not respect their religion?

They used it to create a nation against the teachings of the Torah.

The Israeli government has as much to do with Judaism, as the Nazis did with democracy.

Why would any orthodox jew fight for that?

By the same token why would any orthodox Jew want to live in Israel then if they do not believe in its existence. They migrated there from elsewhere in the world as the arabs would not have them sponging of them

 

[Kondor3]

"...Put 'em on a road gang for six months, then ask 'em again."

Ooooohhh... nice touch, although I might concede 90 days rather than 180...

 

[ForeverYoung436]

I can see both sides of the argument...

Orthodox Jews who have religious objections to such national service, and many countries, including the United States, make provision for Conscientious Objection based upon religious grounds...

...and...

Those serivice-shy Orthodox Jews live under the shield of the national government and are being protected by the efforts and sacrifices of their fellow citizens and need to begin making more of a manpower contribution to both national defense and national service...

-------------------

For my money - if I were king of the world - I would consider requiring them (those Orthodox Jews who refuse to serve in the IDF) to choose between (1) service in the IDF alongside everyone else, or (2) some other form of national service, for the same time-period required of those serving in the military.

As an incentive to choose the military, I would even consider conjuring-up three sets of National Benefits packages - one for those who served in the military (the best package of all), one for those who served in a lesser national-service capacity (a lesser package), and one for those who refused to serve at all (the least generous package)...

But that, too, opens-up a can of worms here and there.

Bottom line, this is an Israeli internal matter, and one that they must decide for themselves.

There IS another form of National Service that SOME of them are joining but MANY refuse to do even that.

I had 9 first cousins (2 girls and 7 guys). 8 of them served in the regular Israeli army, including one girl. One guy, Amichai (which means in Hebrew "My nation lives"), was given that name because he was born on Israel Independence Day. He was killed at 19, in a training exercise accident, in the army. Thank G-d all the rest survived. One girl was too observant to join the army. She did her National Service for 2 years, in places such as hospitals.