Justify the Pledge...

There seems to be collective ignorance/dishonesty among fundamentalists. Once one of them reads a falsehood on a right wing website, they all automatically know it and repeat it. It's like they're all reading from the same playbook and when they resort to such tactics, it tells us that they have no substance to use as ammunition. They think if you're not with them, you're against them.

I hope you realize your doing the same thing from a leftist perspective.
do you actually think your presenting new information that others havn't already heard.
Or do you think Leftist "wisdom" sounds any less robotic to those of us that might lean the other way.
3% substance and 97% neener neener
 
When little kids are out on the playground, playing on the swings and Jungle Jim, and the slide, they line up to get a turn to go down the slide. First, Josie goes up the ladder, the other kids watching, and when she sits down on top, and wriggles forward to begin her trip down the slide, Jimmy begins his ascent up the ladder for his turn down the slide. This is the way the teacher showed them so that they will all get their turn on the slide. They know that it's not fair for someone to "butt in" the line out of turn, ahead of someone else. They shout: "Hey, no fair". That's just the way they do it. It's the way they all learned that this is the way it's done. And when the teacher blows the whistle, they know that recess is over, and that it is time to go back into the classroom. The teacher said she doesn't want everyone trying to get in the door at the same time, so they have to line up to get in the door. That's the way it's done. Early in the mornings, the teacher says its time to all stand up and say the pledge of allegiance. They all know what to do. They all stand together, and put their hand over their heart, and follow along with the teacher. Little Troy knows all the words now, and can say all of them, one right after the other without stumbling. Some still look over at others to see if they are doing it right, smiling self-consciously, but they are doing it all together, happy with their joint efforts with their classmates. They don't know exactly what they are saying, or why. They do it because it is a class project that the teacher showed them, and they are happy to participate, contributing their voice to the whole.

As they grow older, they move from the smaller grades to high school, and when it is time to say the pledge of allegiance, they know the words, and what to do. I still remember the words: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America; and to the Republic for which it stands; One Nation, under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all."

It was all so simple back when we were kids. We just got up from the chair, and stood up and put our hand over our heart and said the words. Many still say the words without thinking. All around are up on their feet saying the words. It is much like a favorite hymn in church, or The Lord's Prayer.

There are many in this country who don't know The Lord's Prayer. They have learned differently about a God, and recite their own words that they have learned as a child. Their religious beliefs are quite different from those of the majority in this country. Some say that the minority must adapt to the ways of the majority. In Ireland, the Catholics and Protestants are still at war with each other. In the Middle East, the Muslims and Jews are at war with each other. Religious Intolerance has been a bane of many societies, and continues. So what's the answer??? TOLERANCE!!! Nobody is just like somebody else. We all differ. What is accomplished by getting mad at somebody because he is different? And because another is different, are we going to make him change to conform to our views? How are we going to do that?

At sporting events, and patriotic gatherings, people rise up at the announcement of the pledge of allegiance, and recite, by rote, the familiar incantations. Some have examined into the history of this country, and religions, and see things differently than most. I have studied our history, and realize that this country was not founded on the principles of subservience to a king, such subservience being rejected in the flight from Britain to the shores of America. The terms "sovereign", and "subject" were rejected in our society, in favor of the hierarchical arrangement as delineated in Article Ten of the Bill of Rights, which shows that the people retain all of the powers not granted to a State, or the States creation, the United States. We rejected the notion: "Hail to the King." Why should we now embrace: "Hail to the United States"?

The term "allegiance" is described in the Webster Dictionary: "The tie or obligation of a subject to his sovereign or government; the duty of fidelity to a king, government, or state."

Considering the term allegiance, and the hierarchical relationship between the people, the State, and the federal government, as recorded in Article Ten of the Bill of Rights, the pledge of allegiance to the flag, and to the United States, should be abolished. All who work for government should be required, every morning, to pledge their allegiance to the people whom they serve; and to reaffirm their oath to uphold the Constitution. This would be a daily reminder of their status, and their servile position. It is predictable that their attitude would change.
 
I hope you realize your doing the same thing from a leftist perspective.
do you actually think your presenting new information that others havn't already heard.
Or do you think Leftist "wisdom" sounds any less robotic to those of us that might lean the other way.
3% substance and 97% neener neener

Absolutely not. I am not stating my position on anything. I am merely pointing out deceitful tactics employed by religious wingnuts.
 
Originally Posted by YWN666
That is nonsense. The absence of religion does NOT equal atheism. The installation manual for my Kenmore dishwasher doesn't mention God once. Does that mean it is an atheist dishwasher???



Your problem is your opinion here is merely your own PERSONAL interpretation of what you think the Constitution SHOULD say. Which is the real nonsense.

Baloney. You said the absence of religion is atheism and I proved you wrong. As for my opinions on the constitution, they jive with the way the Supreme Court has interpreted it and it DOES forbid the government from endorsing any religion. Read the decisions covering any SOCAS case and then get back to me.
 
When little kids are out on the playground, playing on the swings and Jungle Jim, and the slide, they line up to get a turn to go down the slide. First, Josie goes up the ladder, the other kids watching, and when she sits down on top, and wriggles forward to begin her trip down the slide, Jimmy begins his ascent up the ladder for his turn down the slide. This is the way the teacher showed them so that they will all get their turn on the slide. They know that it's not fair for someone to "butt in" the line out of turn, ahead of someone else. They shout: "Hey, no fair". That's just the way they do it. It's the way they all learned that this is the way it's done. And when the teacher blows the whistle, they know that recess is over, and that it is time to go back into the classroom. The teacher said she doesn't want everyone trying to get in the door at the same time, so they have to line up to get in the door. That's the way it's done. Early in the mornings, the teacher says its time to all stand up and say the pledge of allegiance. They all know what to do. They all stand together, and put their hand over their heart, and follow along with the teacher. Little Troy knows all the words now, and can say all of them, one right after the other without stumbling. Some still look over at others to see if they are doing it right, smiling self-consciously, but they are doing it all together, happy with their joint efforts with their classmates. They don't know exactly what they are saying, or why. They do it because it is a class project that the teacher showed them, and they are happy to participate, contributing their voice to the whole.

As they grow older, they move from the smaller grades to high school, and when it is time to say the pledge of allegiance, they know the words, and what to do. I still remember the words: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America; and to the Republic for which it stands; One Nation, under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all."

It was all so simple back when we were kids. We just got up from the chair, and stood up and put our hand over our heart and said the words. Many still say the words without thinking. All around are up on their feet saying the words. It is much like a favorite hymn in church, or The Lord's Prayer.

There are many in this country who don't know The Lord's Prayer. They have learned differently about a God, and recite their own words that they have learned as a child. Their religious beliefs are quite different from those of the majority in this country. Some say that the minority must adapt to the ways of the majority. In Ireland, the Catholics and Protestants are still at war with each other. In the Middle East, the Muslims and Jews are at war with each other. Religious Intolerance has been a bane of many societies, and continues. So what's the answer??? TOLERANCE!!! Nobody is just like somebody else. We all differ. What is accomplished by getting mad at somebody because he is different? And because another is different, are we going to make him change to conform to our views? How are we going to do that?

At sporting events, and patriotic gatherings, people rise up at the announcement of the pledge of allegiance, and recite, by rote, the familiar incantations. Some have examined into the history of this country, and religions, and see things differently than most. I have studied our history, and realize that this country was not founded on the principles of subservience to a king, such subservience being rejected in the flight from Britain to the shores of America. The terms "sovereign", and "subject" were rejected in our society, in favor of the hierarchical arrangement as delineated in Article Ten of the Bill of Rights, which shows that the people retain all of the powers not granted to a State, or the States creation, the United States. We rejected the notion: "Hail to the King." Why should we now embrace: "Hail to the United States"?

The term "allegiance" is described in the Webster Dictionary: "The tie or obligation of a subject to his sovereign or government; the duty of fidelity to a king, government, or state."

Considering the term allegiance, and the hierarchical relationship between the people, the State, and the federal government, as recorded in Article Ten of the Bill of Rights, the pledge of allegiance to the flag, and to the United States, should be abolished. All who work for government should be required, every morning, to pledge their allegiance to the people whom they serve; and to reaffirm their oath to uphold the Constitution. This would be a daily reminder of their status, and their servile position. It is predictable that their attitude would change.

You make an excellent point. It is the government that should be servile to the people, not the other way around.

How about having new office holders take their oath of office with their hand on the Constitution rather than the Bible? That might symbolize a positive change in attitude also.
 

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