Kerry: ‘Israel Can Either Be Jewish or Democratic — It Cannot Be Both’

It's true that you often see Muslims talking about the destruction of Israel and the murder of every living Jew, but you don't see jews claiming to want to destroy all countries predominantly occupied by muslims and claiming they want to murder all living muslims.

I'll just go ahead and side with those NOT PROMOTING GENOCIDE.
 
I wonder how the windbag Kerry would answer this question:

Name an Arab nation that an Arab from Israel can move to, and have more rights and freedoms than they do in Israel.
 
More Zionist propaganda.


Really?

'Propaganda' suggests the opposite of truth. Perhaps you could point out any such content in the video.



How about this:

If Palestine were to lay down their guns tomorrow, there would be no war. If Israel were to lay down theirs, there would be no Israel -

True?


Leaves you with only two choices: admit it's correct and there was no 'propaganda' in the video....

....or lie.

The video was absolute propaganda. It's a false dichotomy and a propagandistic meme. No one is asking the Israelis to lay down their arms. The world is asking that the Israelis stop the oppression of millions of people. If the oppression stopped and the Muslims and Christians were treated like human beings by the Jews and allowed to exercise their civil rights a return to the land that was stolen from them, why would Israel disappear?
 
I wonder how the windbag Kerry would answer this question:

Name an Arab nation that an Arab from Israel can move to, and have more rights and freedoms than they do in Israel.

What does that have to do with anything? Why would an Arab Israeli want to give the Jews a chance to steal yet more land by leaving?
 
More Zionist propaganda.


Really?

'Propaganda' suggests the opposite of truth. Perhaps you could point out any such content in the video.



How about this:

If Palestine were to lay down their guns tomorrow, there would be no war. If Israel were to lay down theirs, there would be no Israel -

True?


Leaves you with only two choices: admit it's correct and there was no 'propaganda' in the video....

....or lie.

The video was absolute propaganda. It's a false dichotomy and a propagandistic meme. No one is asking the Israelis to lay down their arms. The world is asking that the Israelis stop the oppression of millions of people. If the oppression stopped and the Muslims and Christians were treated like human beings by the Jews and allowed to exercise their civil rights a return to the land that was stolen from them, why would Israel disappear?

1. I asked this:
'Propaganda' suggests the opposite of truth. Perhaps you could point out any such content in the video.

You didn't, so I'll conclude that you can't because it is totally true.

2. "If the oppression stopped and the Muslims and Christians were treated like human beings by the Jews and allowed to exercise their civil rights a return to the land that was stolen from them,..."
Actually, I spent a few weeks in Israel this summer...and a great deal of time at Christian Holy Sites
None of what you claim is true.

3. "...the land that was stolen from them."
Now...watch as I rip one who is one a new one:
No land was stolen from the Arabs:
"Until the passage of the Turkish Land Registry Law in 1858,
there were no official deeds to attest to a man's legal title to a parcel
of land; tradition alone had to suffice to establish such title— and
usually it did. And yet, the position of Palestine's farmers was a
precarious one, for there were constant blood-feuds between families,
clans and entire villages, as well as periodic incursions by rapacious Bedouin tribes...


When considering Jewish land purchases and settlements, four
factors should be borne in mind:

(1) Most of the land purchases involved large tracts belonging to
absentee owners.
(Virtually all of the Jezreel Valley, for
example, belonged in 1897 to only two persons: the eastern
portion to the Turkish Sultan, and the western part to the
richest banker in Syria, Sursuk "the Greek".)


(2) Most of the land purchased had not been cultivated previously
because it was swampy, rocky, sandy or, for some other reason,
regarded as uncultivable. This is supported by the findings of
the Peel Commission Report (p. 242): "The Arab charge that
the Jews have obtained too large a proportion of good land
cannot be maintained. Much of the land now carrying orange
groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when it
was purchased . . . there was at the time at least of the earlier
sales little evidence that the owners possessed either the re-
sources or training needed to develop the land." (1937)


(3) While, for this reason, the early transactions did not involve
unduly large sums of money, the price of land began to rise
as Arab landowners took advantage of the growing demand for
rural tracts. The resulting infusion of capital into the
Palestinian economy had noticeable beneficial effects on the
standard of living of all the inhabitants.


(4) The Jewish pioneers introduced new farming methods which
improved the soil and crop cultivation and were soon emulated
by Arab farmers.


(According to the
Turkish census of 1875, by that time Jews already constituted a
majority of the population of Jerusalem and by 1905 comprised
two-thirds of its citizens. The Encyclopaedia Britannica of 1910
gives the population figure as 60,000, of whom 40,000 were Jews.)"
http://wordfromjerusalem.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/the-case-for-israel-appendix2.pdf


King Abdallah of Jordan complains several times in his memoirs about Jews acquiring land in Palestine. Not once does he accuse the Jews of stealing it from the Arabs. Each time he mentions it, the complaint is how much land they are buying:


 "... the fears of the Arab political leaders are supported by the fact that the sale of land continues unrestricted and every day one piece of land after another is torn from the hands of the Arabs.
 8 King Abdallah of Jordan, My Memoirs Completed (Al-Takmilah), Pg. 81. In a letter written to the High Commissioner for Transjordan, Sir Arthur Wauchope on July 25, 1934.

"According to my information the Jews have requested the continuance of the mandate so that they can buy up more land and bring in additional immigrants. No other country has gone through such a trial as Palestine.
 9 King Abdallah of Jordan, My Memoirs Completed (Al-Takmilah), Pg. 88. In a letter written to 'Abd al-Hamid Sa'id on June 5, 1938.

• "Of course, the Zionists bought the land from Arab landholders, who moved to cities or even left the country. They were all too willing to sell, for the price paid by the purchasers was often many times more than anyone else would or could pay." 32 Crist, Raymond E. "Land for the Fellahin, VIII: Land Tenure and Land Use in the Near East".American Journal of Economics and Sociology, Vol. 18, No. 4 (Jul., 1959). 415


"The land policy of the Zionist movement in the pre-state era was based on purchase of land on the open market by Jewish institutions (mainly the JNF) and subsequent freezing of the ownership so as to ensure that the purchased land would be in Jewish hands in perpetuity." Kretzmer, David. The Legal Status of the Arabs in Israel. Boulder: Westview Press, 1990. 50.
Middle East Piece - Jewish Land Purchase and Dispossession


What is clear is that you are a lying windbag, and no more than a mere garden variety Antisemite.

That's true, isn't it.
 
Last edited:
I wonder how the windbag Kerry would answer this question:

Name an Arab nation that an Arab from Israel can move to, and have more rights and freedoms than they do in Israel.

What does that have to do with anything? Why would an Arab Israeli want to give the Jews a chance to steal yet more land by leaving?


So we agree that there is no Arab nation to which an Arab Israel could go and have more rights and freedoms than they do in Israel.

It seems you are the only one who doesn't realize that you have been put in your place....the last seat in the dumb row.
 
More Zionist propaganda.


Really?

'Propaganda' suggests the opposite of truth. Perhaps you could point out any such content in the video.



How about this:

If Palestine were to lay down their guns tomorrow, there would be no war. If Israel were to lay down theirs, there would be no Israel -

True?


Leaves you with only two choices: admit it's correct and there was no 'propaganda' in the video....

....or lie.

The video was absolute propaganda. It's a false dichotomy and a propagandistic meme. No one is asking the Israelis to lay down their arms. The world is asking that the Israelis stop the oppression of millions of people. If the oppression stopped and the Muslims and Christians were treated like human beings by the Jews and allowed to exercise their civil rights a return to the land that was stolen from them, why would Israel disappear?

1. I asked this:
'Propaganda' suggests the opposite of truth. Perhaps you could point out any such content in the video.

You didn't, so I'll conclude that you can't because it is totally true.

2. "If the oppression stopped and the Muslims and Christians were treated like human beings by the Jews and allowed to exercise their civil rights a return to the land that was stolen from them,..."
Actually, I spent a few weeks in Israel this summer...and a great deal of time at Christian Holy Sites
None of what you claim is true.

3. "...the land that was stolen from them."
Now...watch as I rip one who is one a new one:
No land was stolen from the Arabs:
"Until the passage of the Turkish Land Registry Law in 1858,
there were no official deeds to attest to a man's legal title to a parcel
of land; tradition alone had to suffice to establish such title— and
usually it did. And yet, the position of Palestine's farmers was a
precarious one, for there were constant blood-feuds between families,
clans and entire villages, as well as periodic incursions by rapacious Bedouin tribes...


When considering Jewish land purchases and settlements, four
factors should be borne in mind:

(1) Most of the land purchases involved large tracts belonging to
absentee owners.
(Virtually all of the Jezreel Valley, for
example, belonged in 1897 to only two persons: the eastern
portion to the Turkish Sultan, and the western part to the
richest banker in Syria, Sursuk "the Greek".)


(2) Most of the land purchased had not been cultivated previously
because it was swampy, rocky, sandy or, for some other reason,
regarded as uncultivable. This is supported by the findings of
the Peel Commission Report (p. 242): "The Arab charge that
the Jews have obtained too large a proportion of good land
cannot be maintained. Much of the land now carrying orange
groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when it
was purchased . . . there was at the time at least of the earlier
sales little evidence that the owners possessed either the re-
sources or training needed to develop the land." (1937)


(3) While, for this reason, the early transactions did not involve
unduly large sums of money, the price of land began to rise
as Arab landowners took advantage of the growing demand for
rural tracts. The resulting infusion of capital into the
Palestinian economy had noticeable beneficial effects on the
standard of living of all the inhabitants.


(4) The Jewish pioneers introduced new farming methods which
improved the soil and crop cultivation and were soon emulated
by Arab farmers.


(According to the
Turkish census of 1875, by that time Jews already constituted a
majority of the population of Jerusalem and by 1905 comprised
two-thirds of its citizens. The Encyclopaedia Britannica of 1910
gives the population figure as 60,000, of whom 40,000 were Jews.)"
http://wordfromjerusalem.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/the-case-for-israel-appendix2.pdf


King Abdallah of Jordan complains several times in his memoirs about Jews acquiring land in Palestine. Not once does he accuse the Jews of stealing it from the Arabs. Each time he mentions it, the complaint is how much land they are buying:


 "... the fears of the Arab political leaders are supported by the fact that the sale of land continues unrestricted and every day one piece of land after another is torn from the hands of the Arabs.
 8 King Abdallah of Jordan, My Memoirs Completed (Al-Takmilah), Pg. 81. In a letter written to the High Commissioner for Transjordan, Sir Arthur Wauchope on July 25, 1934.

"According to my information the Jews have requested the continuance of the mandate so that they can buy up more land and bring in additional immigrants. No other country has gone through such a trial as Palestine.
 9 King Abdallah of Jordan, My Memoirs Completed (Al-Takmilah), Pg. 88. In a letter written to 'Abd al-Hamid Sa'id on June 5, 1938.

• "Of course, the Zionists bought the land from Arab landholders, who moved to cities or even left the country. They were all too willing to sell, for the price paid by the purchasers was often many times more than anyone else would or could pay." 32 Crist, Raymond E. "Land for the Fellahin, VIII: Land Tenure and Land Use in the Near East".American Journal of Economics and Sociology, Vol. 18, No. 4 (Jul., 1959). 415


"The land policy of the Zionist movement in the pre-state era was based on purchase of land on the open market by Jewish institutions (mainly the JNF) and subsequent freezing of the ownership so as to ensure that the purchased land would be in Jewish hands in perpetuity." Kretzmer, David. The Legal Status of the Arabs in Israel. Boulder: Westview Press, 1990. 50.
Middle East Piece - Jewish Land Purchase and Dispossession


What is clear is that you are a lying windbag, and no more than a mere garden variety Antisemite.

That's true, isn't it.


Posting Zionist propaganda does not make it a fact, here are the facts from source documents:

Jews owned less than 6% of the land in 1943. Per the UN commissioned Anglo-American Commission of Inquiry for the Survey of Palestine.

upload_2016-12-28_19-3-16.png



A Survey of Palestine Volume 2 | Berman Jewish Policy Archive @ Stanford University

And from the Partition resolution itself. UN A/364 The Arabs still owned 85% of the land:

"164. The Arab population, despite the strenuous efforts of Jews to acquire land in Palestine, at present remains in possession of approximately 85 per cent of the land. The provisions of the land transfer regulations of 1940, which gave effect to the 1939 White Paper policy, have severely restricted the Jewish efforts to acquire new land."

A/364 of 3 September 1947
 
More Zionist propaganda.


Really?

'Propaganda' suggests the opposite of truth. Perhaps you could point out any such content in the video.



How about this:

If Palestine were to lay down their guns tomorrow, there would be no war. If Israel were to lay down theirs, there would be no Israel -

True?


Leaves you with only two choices: admit it's correct and there was no 'propaganda' in the video....

....or lie.

The video was absolute propaganda. It's a false dichotomy and a propagandistic meme. No one is asking the Israelis to lay down their arms. The world is asking that the Israelis stop the oppression of millions of people. If the oppression stopped and the Muslims and Christians were treated like human beings by the Jews and allowed to exercise their civil rights a return to the land that was stolen from them, why would Israel disappear?

1. I asked this:
'Propaganda' suggests the opposite of truth. Perhaps you could point out any such content in the video.

You didn't, so I'll conclude that you can't because it is totally true.

2. "If the oppression stopped and the Muslims and Christians were treated like human beings by the Jews and allowed to exercise their civil rights a return to the land that was stolen from them,..."
Actually, I spent a few weeks in Israel this summer...and a great deal of time at Christian Holy Sites
None of what you claim is true.

3. "...the land that was stolen from them."
Now...watch as I rip one who is one a new one:
No land was stolen from the Arabs:
"Until the passage of the Turkish Land Registry Law in 1858,
there were no official deeds to attest to a man's legal title to a parcel
of land; tradition alone had to suffice to establish such title— and
usually it did. And yet, the position of Palestine's farmers was a
precarious one, for there were constant blood-feuds between families,
clans and entire villages, as well as periodic incursions by rapacious Bedouin tribes...


When considering Jewish land purchases and settlements, four
factors should be borne in mind:

(1) Most of the land purchases involved large tracts belonging to
absentee owners.
(Virtually all of the Jezreel Valley, for
example, belonged in 1897 to only two persons: the eastern
portion to the Turkish Sultan, and the western part to the
richest banker in Syria, Sursuk "the Greek".)


(2) Most of the land purchased had not been cultivated previously
because it was swampy, rocky, sandy or, for some other reason,
regarded as uncultivable. This is supported by the findings of
the Peel Commission Report (p. 242): "The Arab charge that
the Jews have obtained too large a proportion of good land
cannot be maintained. Much of the land now carrying orange
groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when it
was purchased . . . there was at the time at least of the earlier
sales little evidence that the owners possessed either the re-
sources or training needed to develop the land." (1937)


(3) While, for this reason, the early transactions did not involve
unduly large sums of money, the price of land began to rise
as Arab landowners took advantage of the growing demand for
rural tracts. The resulting infusion of capital into the
Palestinian economy had noticeable beneficial effects on the
standard of living of all the inhabitants.


(4) The Jewish pioneers introduced new farming methods which
improved the soil and crop cultivation and were soon emulated
by Arab farmers.


(According to the
Turkish census of 1875, by that time Jews already constituted a
majority of the population of Jerusalem and by 1905 comprised
two-thirds of its citizens. The Encyclopaedia Britannica of 1910
gives the population figure as 60,000, of whom 40,000 were Jews.)"
http://wordfromjerusalem.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/the-case-for-israel-appendix2.pdf


King Abdallah of Jordan complains several times in his memoirs about Jews acquiring land in Palestine. Not once does he accuse the Jews of stealing it from the Arabs. Each time he mentions it, the complaint is how much land they are buying:


 "... the fears of the Arab political leaders are supported by the fact that the sale of land continues unrestricted and every day one piece of land after another is torn from the hands of the Arabs.
 8 King Abdallah of Jordan, My Memoirs Completed (Al-Takmilah), Pg. 81. In a letter written to the High Commissioner for Transjordan, Sir Arthur Wauchope on July 25, 1934.

"According to my information the Jews have requested the continuance of the mandate so that they can buy up more land and bring in additional immigrants. No other country has gone through such a trial as Palestine.
 9 King Abdallah of Jordan, My Memoirs Completed (Al-Takmilah), Pg. 88. In a letter written to 'Abd al-Hamid Sa'id on June 5, 1938.

• "Of course, the Zionists bought the land from Arab landholders, who moved to cities or even left the country. They were all too willing to sell, for the price paid by the purchasers was often many times more than anyone else would or could pay." 32 Crist, Raymond E. "Land for the Fellahin, VIII: Land Tenure and Land Use in the Near East".American Journal of Economics and Sociology, Vol. 18, No. 4 (Jul., 1959). 415


"The land policy of the Zionist movement in the pre-state era was based on purchase of land on the open market by Jewish institutions (mainly the JNF) and subsequent freezing of the ownership so as to ensure that the purchased land would be in Jewish hands in perpetuity." Kretzmer, David. The Legal Status of the Arabs in Israel. Boulder: Westview Press, 1990. 50.
Middle East Piece - Jewish Land Purchase and Dispossession


What is clear is that you are a lying windbag, and no more than a mere garden variety Antisemite.

That's true, isn't it.


Posting Zionist propaganda does not make it a fact, here are the facts from source documents:

Jews owned less than 6% of the land in 1943. Per the UN commissioned Anglo-American Commission of Inquiry for the Survey of Palestine.

View attachment 104208


A Survey of Palestine Volume 2 | Berman Jewish Policy Archive @ Stanford University

And from the Partition resolution itself. UN A/364 The Arabs still owned 85% of the land:

"164. The Arab population, despite the strenuous efforts of Jews to acquire land in Palestine, at present remains in possession of approximately 85 per cent of the land. The provisions of the land transfer regulations of 1940, which gave effect to the 1939 White Paper policy, have severely restricted the Jewish efforts to acquire new land."

A/364 of 3 September 1947


You are simply ignorant of the facts. Arabs-Moslems did not own 85℅ of the geographic area you ignoranty label as your invented "country of Pal'istan". We know the Ottoman land records that large tracts of land were held in trust as an Islamist waqf. We also know that absentee land owners in Egypt, Syria and Lebanon owned large tracts which were sold to Jewish buyers.

You're just making up things as you go along.

Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to PalestinianAuthority
 
I wonder how the windbag Kerry would answer this question:

Name an Arab nation that an Arab from Israel can move to, and have more rights and freedoms than they do in Israel.

What does that have to do with anything? Why would an Arab Israeli want to give the Jews a chance to steal yet more land by leaving?


So we agree that there is no Arab nation to which an Arab Israel could go and have more rights and freedoms than they do in Israel.

It seems you are the only one who doesn't realize that you have been put in your place....the last seat in the dumb row.

No, an Arab Israeli would have more rights with citizenship in Tunisia, Morocco, Lebanon, Kuwait or any of the Emirates (and be far better off) than in Israel.
 
He claimed something totally baseless and the Anti-Israelis clapping like seals.

Why can't Israel be both democratic and Jewish? This threa is filled with nonsense but does not really answer that question
 
I wonder how the windbag Kerry would answer this question:

Name an Arab nation that an Arab from Israel can move to, and have more rights and freedoms than they do in Israel.

What does that have to do with anything? Why would an Arab Israeli want to give the Jews a chance to steal yet more land by leaving?


So we agree that there is no Arab nation to which an Arab Israel could go and have more rights and freedoms than they do in Israel.

It seems you are the only one who doesn't realize that you have been put in your place....the last seat in the dumb row.

No, an Arab Israeli would have more rights with citizenship in Tunisia, Morocco, Lebanon, Kuwait or any of the Emirates (and be far better off) than in Israel.
"... because I say so"
 
Arab Israeli's have more freedoms and rights in Israel, then they would in any of the other Middle East countries where there aren't any representational forms of government. But all that does beg the question: do they have true equality? I would say no. There is discrimmination, in the variety of areas and laws which specifically favor Jews. Can you have a religious state and a true democracy? I'm doubtful.
 
Kerry: ‘Israel Can Either Be Jewish or Democratic — It Cannot Be Both’

Kerry is such a political hack....just like Obama.

Anti-Semitic admin......who knew?
In fact, Israel is both Jewish and democratic, which means Kerry can either be quiet or be an Idiot.

But if Israel annexes the West Bank, then it will incorporate 2.5 million more Arabs.
No, the Palestinians will continue to be citizens of the Palestinian Authority, not Israeli citizens. A sovereign Palestinian state is simply not viable because there is no political entity among them that can credibly offer peace to Israel, so they can enjoy most of the rights of a sovereign state, but not quite all of them. The idiot Kerry and his idiot boss say there must be one state or two states, but that is not true. There can be one state, Israel, and an autonomously ruled Palestinian territory under Israeli sovereignty, which is the status quo and which remains the only viable arrangement for the foreseeable future.

Of course, if Israel formally annexes all of Judea and Samaria, there would be political and diplomatic problems, but whether it is all annexed or only parts of it are annexed, the present arrangement between Israel and the Palestinians is how it is going to be for the foreseeable future.
 
Obviously, Israel is not a democracy, you can't hold millions of people under rule without the vote and be a democracy.

The Economist names the only democracy in the Middle East, and it isn’t Israel


"There is one country, however, which shines as a beacon of freedom for the region. It’s commitment to the rule of law and the maintenance of the basic standards of human dignity serve as an example to its neighbors. No, not Israel, silly. Tiny Tunisia is The Economist’s shining city on the Arab hill."

The Economist names the only democracy in the Middle East, and it isn’t Israel
 
Arab Israeli's have more freedoms and rights in Israel, then they would in any of the other Middle East countries where there aren't any representational forms of government. But all that does beg the question: do they have true equality? I would say no. There is discrimmination, in the variety of areas and laws which specifically favor Jews. Can you have a religious state and a true democracy? I'm doubtful.
Arab Israelis are completely equal to Jewish Israelis under the law, but in all countries that are issues of discrimination between the majority and minorities. In the US, African Americans, Hispanic Americans, women, etc. all have equal rights under the law and all complain of discrimination. The same is true in Israeli.
 
Kerry: ‘Israel Can Either Be Jewish or Democratic — It Cannot Be Both’

Kerry is such a political hack....just like Obama.

Anti-Semitic admin......who knew?
In fact, Israel is both Jewish and democratic, which means Kerry can either be quiet or be an Idiot.

But if Israel annexes the West Bank, then it will incorporate 2.5 million more Arabs.
No, the Palestinians will continue to be citizens of the Palestinian Authority, not Israeli citizens. A sovereign Palestinian state is simply not viable because there is no political entity among them that can credibly offer peace to Israel, so they can enjoy most of the rights of a sovereign state, but not quite all of them. The idiot Kerry and his idiot boss say there must be one state or two states, but that is not true. There can be one state, Israel, and an autonomously ruled Palestinian territory under Israeli sovereignty, which is the status quo and which remains the only viable arrangement for the foreseeable future.

Of course, if Israel formally annexes all of Judea and Samaria, there would be political and diplomatic problems, but whether it is all annexed or only parts of it are annexed, the present arrangement between Israel and the Palestinians is how it is going to be for the foreseeable future.

So a continued Apartheid state.
 
Arab Israeli's have more freedoms and rights in Israel, then they would in any of the other Middle East countries where there aren't any representational forms of government. But all that does beg the question: do they have true equality? I would say no. There is discrimmination, in the variety of areas and laws which specifically favor Jews. Can you have a religious state and a true democracy? I'm doubtful.
Arab Israelis are completely equal to Jewish Israelis under the law, but in all countries that are issues of discrimination between the majority and minorities. In the US, African Americans, Hispanic Americans, women, etc. all have equal rights under the law and all complain of discrimination. The same is true in Israeli.

The Adalah database of 50 discriminatory laws in Israel -

See more at: The Adalah database of 50 discriminatory laws in Israel
 

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