Mike Tyson vs. Muhammad Ali: Who would win?

[IM2]

Mike Tyson vs. Muhammad Ali: Who would win?​

Without a doubt, Mrs. Clay's baby boy Cassius...

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You might ask Ernie Terrell about using the name Clay for Ali.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Tyson was the fighter he was BECAUSE he had Ali, Sugar Ray and Rocky Marciano to learn from.

It's like asking Who's the best guitar player

 

[miketx]

Muhammad Ali was too smart ….Mike Tyson’s loses by KO after 6 rounds

not only is Ali the better boxer, he's smarter than Tyson, brothers

Considering Muhammed is dead, what do you think?

 

[katsteve2012]

True. But I don't think even D'Amato could have helped him against Ali.

I agree totally.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Appears Tyson beat Ali in a simulator.

200,000 people watched a weird and wonderful simulation of a boxing tournament involving 8 iconic heavyweights

Mike Tyson dominated a boxing-tournament simulation, with the former champion bulldozing through Butterbean, George Foreman, and Muhammad Ali.

www.insider.com

• With live sports on a coronavirus-enforced hiatus, the creative minds at the World Boxing Super Series organized for eight of the planet's most iconic heavyweights to take part in a last-man-standing tournament — including Lennox Lewis, George Foreman, and Butterbean.
• Tyson and Ali made the final — and you can watch Tyson win right here.

 

[katsteve2012]

Appears Tyson beat Ali in a simulator.

200,000 people watched a weird and wonderful simulation of a boxing tournament involving 8 iconic heavyweights

Mike Tyson dominated a boxing-tournament simulation, with the former champion bulldozing through Butterbean, George Foreman, and Muhammad Ali.

www.insider.com

• With live sports on a coronavirus-enforced hiatus, the creative minds at the World Boxing Super Series organized for eight of the planet's most iconic heavyweights to take part in a last-man-standing tournament — including Lennox Lewis, George Foreman, and Butterbean.
• Tyson and Ali made the final — and you can watch Tyson win right here.
  
  True. But I don't think even D'Amato could have helped him against Ali.

• 
  What a lot of boxing fans who never stepped in a ring overlook are some of the intangible traits that set fighters apart.
  
  One of the most important traits,that I've been told by some very good pro trainers is the ability to overcome adversity by adjusting to a troublesome opponents style.
  
  I never recall seeing Tyson come from behind to win, but I do recall seeing Ali do it on numerous occasions, when the outcome of big fights were on the line.
  
  I was at Alis last fight against Joe Frazier in Manila.
  
  The way that he came out and stopped Frazier in the 14th round after a back and forth fight was pure determination.

 

[IM2]

Appears Tyson beat Ali in a simulator.

200,000 people watched a weird and wonderful simulation of a boxing tournament involving 8 iconic heavyweights

Mike Tyson dominated a boxing-tournament simulation, with the former champion bulldozing through Butterbean, George Foreman, and Muhammad Ali.

www.insider.com

• With live sports on a coronavirus-enforced hiatus, the creative minds at the World Boxing Super Series organized for eight of the planet's most iconic heavyweights to take part in a last-man-standing tournament — including Lennox Lewis, George Foreman, and Butterbean.
• Tyson and Ali made the final — and you can watch Tyson win right here.

A simulator ain't reality. A simulator had Marciano beating Ali. That would not have happened.

 

[IM2]

• 
  What a lot of boxing fans who never stepped in a ring overlook are some of the intangible traits that set fighters apart.
  
  One of the most important traits,that I've been told by some very good pro trainers is the ability to overcome adversity by adjusting to a troublesome opponents style.
  
  I never recall seeing Tyson come from behind to win, but I do recall seeing Ali do it on numerous occasions, when the outcome of big fights were on the line.
  
  I was at Alis last fight against Joe Frazier in Manila.
  
  The way that he came out and stopped Frazier in the 14th round after a back and forth fight was pure determination.

Yes. I do believe a lot of people do not understand the intangible called the will to win. When Ali stepped in that ring, all clowning and joking was over. You had to make Ali quit to beat him. He was in it to the death. That was his mindset and the only other boxers I have seen with that mindset that come to mind are, Holyfield, Chavez, Frazier, and Marvin Hagler. Tyson did not have it. He was the street bully. On top of that, he didn't have to go through men like Ernie Shavers and some of those heavyweights. That lineup of heavyweights in those days was brutal.

Yes, that third fight against Frazier was in my view the greatest fight of all time. Those two brothers went at it. And I don't think both men were ever the same after that fight.

 

[katsteve2012]

A simulator ain't reality. A simulator had Marciano beating Ali. That would not have happened.

d
I saw that series mostly out of curiosity.

What I found to be questionable was the inclusion of "Butterbean" even being in the series.

He was known as the "King of the 4 Rounders".

I don't think would have had the endurance to fight a 10 round prelim fight, let alone a 12 or 15 round championship fight.

JMO

 

[IM2]

d
I saw that series mostly out of curiosity.

What I found to be questionable was the inclusion of "Butterbean" even being in the series.

He was known as "King of the 4 Rounders".

I don't think would have had the endurance to fight a 10 round prelim fight, let alone a 12 or 15 round championship fight.

JMO

I don't even consider Butterbean a boxer. And since you participated in that sport I would guess you find that as insulting as I find calling Steve Austin or any of those guys wrestlers.

 

[katsteve2012]

Yes. I do believe a lot of people do not understand the intangible called the will to win. When Ali stepped in that ring, all clowning and joking was over. You had to make Ali quit to beat him. He was in it to the death. That was his mindset and the only other boxers I have seen with that mindset that come to mind are, Holyfield, Chavez, Frazier, and Marvin Hagler. Tyson did not have it. He was the street bully. On top of that, he didn't have to go through men like Ernie Shavers and some of those heavyweights. That lineup of heavyweights in those days was brutal.

Yes, that third fight against Frazier was in my view the greatest fight of all time. Those two brothers went at it. And I don't think both men were ever the same after that fight.

You present some great observations that are all true.

Ali's former biographer and personal photographer, Howard Bingham told me himself over dinner that he wished that Ali had retired after that bout, because it was downhill from there.

 

[IM2]

You present some great observations that are all true.

Ali's former biographer and personal photographer, Howard Bingham told me himself over dinner that he wished that Ali had retired after that bout, because it was downhill from there.

Yeah, you could see it. Boxing is the ultimate sport of wills. I think only those of us who have competed in one-one combat sports appreciate the type of mentality it takes to dig deep when every muscle in your body tries telling you that they don't want to work anymore and find that one last push. I found that in several wrestling matches in my day, but those were only 3 periods. 12 to 15 rounds is a completely different story.

Frazier and Ali tried to kill each other that night. It was an epic battle that I have obviously never forgotten.

 

[katsteve2012]

I don't even consider Butterbean a boxer. And since you participated in that sport I would guess you find that as insulting as I find calling Steve Austin or any of those guys wrestlers.

Butterbean was a "niche" attraction. He appealed to the casual boxing fan because he definitely could punch!

I saw him in Vegas once working on a heavy bag, and he was super strong, but REALLY slow.

He could not have beaten even a legitimate fringe title contender, and he even knew that, but he was a very intelligent and cool person to talk to, and he knew who his audience was.

 

[katsteve2012]

Yeah, you could see it. Boxing is the ultimate sport of wills. I think only those of us who have competed in one-one combat sports appreciate the type of mentality it takes to dig deep when every muscle in your body tries telling you that they don't want to work anymore and find that one last push. I found that in several wrestling matches in my day, but those were only 3 periods. 12 to 15 rounds is a completely different story.

Frazier and Ali tried to kill each other that night. It was an epic battle that I have obviously never forgotten.

Wrestling is a sport that I avoided.

I spent one summer on the werkends training with a group of wrestlers, and the torture that those guys endured to make weight was scary.

I fought as a welterweight, but was really a natural middleweight, and sometimes, I barely made it, but what I did to make weight was not anything like what those guys did, they even made themselves puke sometimes.

That gave me the "willies"...LOL!

 

[katsteve2012]

lol, one of these. I always enjoy philosophy, especially in time wasters such as sports and I have a few minutes before dinner is done. This has been debated on here in the past anyways, I haven't watched boxing for many years.

I once felt Ali had to be the greatest, but a friend of mine convinced me of one question to consider, "could Ali absorb so many shots and rope-a-dope to the later rounds as he did the boxers of the 70s?" The answer to that question for anyone provides the answer to your scenario.

I personally doubt Ali could handle the punishment. Really who could?



He lost to the toughest boxer IMO in Joe Frazier, he stole one of those fights in the Thrilla in Manilla as far as I am concerned so I chalk it to two lose and the physical cost for both was steep.

Tyson hits harder but most importantly, quicker and far more unorthodox. His peek-a-boo style is extremely difficult to handle when coupled with speed, power and elusive trunk movement. If it were an open field, maybe, in a ring, it's the perfect storm of danger. His height was an advantage.

Yes, Ali beat heavy hitter Foreman in Zaire, but Foreman to this day suggests he was groggy due to someone putting something in his water. Who knows, but a young Foreman was as frightening a specimen as any who put on gloves. In the shady world of boxing, in a 3rd World Country, I tend to believe Foreman that the fix was in. Just as it was when Tyson lost in Japan and he STILL almost won that was how hard he hit, even groggy.

So, throw in those two suspect matches as the best comparisons and throw in Mike vs Ali in their prime and I conclude Tyson wins.

Unlike boxers before him, Tyson had one direction. Ali would be hit...alot. Like others before him he would try and use his range, but, it simply can't work when trapped in a ring. Ali would have to survive three rounds doing this before the needle starts to shift in his favor. In Tysons prime, I can't see it happening. He wasn't a gradual fighter, he chased his opponent, he wanted to K.O quickly.

The first guy to really beat him was Holyfield. The reason was that Tyson was past his prime, and, Holyfield could outbox him, he wasn't taking shots and trying to be cute. In Tysons prime, Holyfield loses but at that point in his post prison career, Holyfield just needed to stand in and outbox him with courage. Holyfield could do it then, he couldn't do it years earlier.

Much of Tyson is myth building and reputation. Psychological certainly. Who knows how many took a fall early in his career to build up the mystique so that boxing bettors could make millions? However, stylistically and otherwise, he was just the perfect dominant boxer with the right coach, disposition and life experiences to be near unbeatable in the ring in his prime.

In a 10 match simulation I could see Tyson winning at least 8 of them.

Good post to stimulate conversation.

I totally agree that such discussions never yield any resolutions, but only opinions, which is what leads people to discuss various topics.

 

[Quasar44]

ALI
He would break Tyson’s will

 

[IM2]

Wrestling is a sport that I avoided.

I spent one summer on the werkends training with a group of wrestlers, and the torture that those guys endured to make weight was scary.

I fought as a welterweight, but was really a natural middleweight, and sometimes, I barely made it, but what I did to make weight was not anything like what those guys did, they even made themselves puke sometimes.

That gave me the "willies"...LOL!

I saw guys who did that. I couldn't. So I would either starve or eat raw lettuce. A head of lettuce was something like 3 calories, so I'd eat lettuce and practice would burn it off.

 

[IM2]

George Foreman came back and won the title during Tysons era. I think Ali could have taken the punishment.

 

[westwall]

d
I saw that series mostly out of curiosity.

What I found to be questionable was the inclusion of "Butterbean" even being in the series.

He was known as "King of the 4 Rounders".

I don't think would have had the endurance to fight a 10 round prelim fight, let alone a 12 or 15 round championship fight.

JMO

Butterbean was a circus sideshow.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Most of Tysons opponents were beaten before the bell sounded. I remember Frank Bruno looking terrified when he got in the ring.
He had an aura about him.
But he never fought anyone like Ali. I doubt that he would have laid a glove on him.Tyson ould have done ok against the Listons and others of that era. But Ali was a step too far for him.