Morality of Wealth Redistribution

[rdean]

Money has already be redistributed from the Middle Class to the top 3%.

 

[thereisnospoon]

4% of the people in this country control 95% of the wealth.

We have the greatest disparity of wealth in the industrialized world.

It is an enormous waste of resources and it is morally wrong.

You and others continue to whine about this so called wealth gap....Not one of you has come up with an idea to reverse this alleged phenomenon.
What say you?....As to a solution only.
Note...The answer must be in your own words. No C&P opinion pieces. No blogs. YOU OWN WORDS.
Have at it.

My own words: RAISE minimum wage to a living wage. Return taxes to pre 1970's levels. Return corporate laws to what they were pre-1970's also.

"living wage" What's that?
We compete in our world. So when we take responsibility for ourselves, become educated, choose a field and become more skilled, we in effect give ourselves a raise. No government mandate will crate the panacea of prosperity.
'Remember this. If government mandates all people of any skill level be given an automatic increase in wage, the money has to come from somewhere. The wage mandate will be passed along to the end user of the product or service. Prices will have to increased to make up the rise in mandated labor costs. That two dollar loaf of bread will become a five dollar loaf of bread.
Taxes. Increasing taxes does the same thing. The additional expense incurred by business and individuals will be passed along to the consumer.
No authority can artificially increase expenses and not incur consequences.
What pre 1970's laws were those?
BTW, should government increase taxes to past confiscatory levels, where would the the incentive be to invest and build if those with the means to do so now the government would simply confiscate the profits?
Why is it you think wealth is safer in the hands of politicians who have shown ZERO fiscal responsibility in the first place?
You seem to believe that taxation is the great equalizer.

 

[Againsheila]

Ahh yes..You libs view those who have accomplished anything as having won the lottery of life.
You lefties will do anything to avoid discussing the concepts of hard work, education and personal responsibility.

So, you've never known anyone that worked hard, tried to educate themselves and believed in personal responsibility that still couldn't get ahead? I believe in hard work, education and personal responsibility, it's just that sometimes that isn't enough. Sometimes I look around me and come to the conclusion that taking credit for others hard work, connections and a complete lack of ethics and the willingness to stab anyone in the back are the real road to success.

I've worked since I was 8 yrs old. I'll probably work till I die. I'm not complaining about my position in this world. But I also think it is awfully mean-spirited and uncivilized to kick the poor to the curb and demand that everyone else in this world have it as hard as (proverbial) you did.

And any realistic assessment of anyone's success should include lucky breaks. Being prepared to take advantage of them is on you. Getting them isn't.

There is no try..There is only "do"....
Get ahead? No...This is an illusion created by the class envy crowd.
MY parent's generation never thought about "getting ahead" They thought about doing what they could to make a living, make a home, raise a family, have a few nice things, educate their kids and retire. Notice how all those things involve personal responsibility.
"I look around me".....another problem you libs have. You're always so worried about what someone else is doing. It has no affect on you. Mind your business and worry about what you need to do. I could not care less about what others do. It is of no consequence to me. Suppose I get all worked up about someone in my neighborhood who used some unethical advantage to get what he wanted. I get all pissed off and that has a negative effect on me. The neighbor doesn't give a shit. So I get all stressed out and I'm still not any better for it.
Let the authorities take care of it. There's nothing I can do but sleep well at night knowing I did things the correct way. Legitimate.
Not once did I "kick the poor to the curb"....I don't even recall thinking that.
In fact I'll dismiss that as an invective on your part.
I'll go back to the statement I made earlier. That was , I get pretty sick of people giving me the cross eye because I did what I had to do to become educated and certified in my profession so that I could increase my value to my employer and so they would pay me based on that value and contribution. If certain people think I'm greedy or evil, fuck 'em.
In the immortal words of Judge Elihu Smails......"I OWE YOU NOTHING!"

Yeah, let's not get upset about the ever increasing income gap. Let's just let them keep on kicking the poor until they starve....let's just let them continue raping this country until there is nothing left and the rest of us starve while the rich horde everything. No worries...if we die of starvation or overwork, we deserve it.

I'm ashamed of American and some Americans. It's way past time for the new revolution. It'll never happen though, the government proved that when they took those guns away from their legal owners after Katrina and Americans did nothing. Yep, we probably deserve to die of starvation and overwork seeing as how we won't do anything to prevent it.

 

[Againsheila]

You and others continue to whine about this so called wealth gap....Not one of you has come up with an idea to reverse this alleged phenomenon.
What say you?....As to a solution only.
Note...The answer must be in your own words. No C&P opinion pieces. No blogs. YOU OWN WORDS.
Have at it.

My own words: RAISE minimum wage to a living wage. Return taxes to pre 1970's levels. Return corporate laws to what they were pre-1970's also.

"living wage" What's that?
We compete in our world. So when we take responsibility for ourselves, become educated, choose a field and become more skilled, we in effect give ourselves a raise. No government mandate will crate the panacea of prosperity.
'Remember this. If government mandates all people of any skill level be given an automatic increase in wage, the money has to come from somewhere. The wage mandate will be passed along to the end user of the product or service. Prices will have to increased to make up the rise in mandated labor costs. That two dollar loaf of bread will become a five dollar loaf of bread.
Taxes. Increasing taxes does the same thing. The additional expense incurred by business and individuals will be passed along to the consumer.
No authority can artificially increase expenses and not incur consequences.
What pre 1970's laws were those?
BTW, should government increase taxes to past confiscatory levels, where would the the incentive be to invest and build if those with the means to do so now the government would simply confiscate the profits?
Why is it you think wealth is safer in the hands of politicians who have shown ZERO fiscal responsibility in the first place?
You seem to believe that taxation is the great equalizer.

Yeah, the money comes from that 150% increase the top 21% made while the rest of us lost money.

 

[thereisnospoon]

My own words: RAISE minimum wage to a living wage. Return taxes to pre 1970's levels. Return corporate laws to what they were pre-1970's also.

"living wage" What's that?
We compete in our world. So when we take responsibility for ourselves, become educated, choose a field and become more skilled, we in effect give ourselves a raise. No government mandate will crate the panacea of prosperity.
'Remember this. If government mandates all people of any skill level be given an automatic increase in wage, the money has to come from somewhere. The wage mandate will be passed along to the end user of the product or service. Prices will have to increased to make up the rise in mandated labor costs. That two dollar loaf of bread will become a five dollar loaf of bread.
Taxes. Increasing taxes does the same thing. The additional expense incurred by business and individuals will be passed along to the consumer.
No authority can artificially increase expenses and not incur consequences.
What pre 1970's laws were those?
BTW, should government increase taxes to past confiscatory levels, where would the the incentive be to invest and build if those with the means to do so now the government would simply confiscate the profits?
Why is it you think wealth is safer in the hands of politicians who have shown ZERO fiscal responsibility in the first place?
You seem to believe that taxation is the great equalizer.

Yeah, the money comes from that 150% increase the top 21% made while the rest of us lost money.

You "lost" money? Explain.....Where did YOUR money, the money for which YOU are responsible?
Your comments make no sense.

 

[Chris]

Money has already be redistributed from the Middle Class to the top 3%.

Exactly.

And all these rank and file Republicans are like the frat boys in Animal House.

"Thank you sir, may I have another!"

 

[thereisnospoon]

Money has already be redistributed from the Middle Class to the top 3%.

Exactly.

And all these rank and file Republicans are like the frat boys in Animal House.

"Thank you sir, may I have another!"

All of you class envy people are self loathing whiners.
Look pal, you're either inside or your outside.

 

[DiamondDave]

Money has already be redistributed from the Middle Class to the top 3%.

Keeping a higher % of what YOU earn is redistribution?? Especially when you already pay a much higher % than the rest of the populace?

Warped mind you have there, rdummy

 

[Political Junky]

Money has already be redistributed from the Middle Class to the top 3%.

Exactly.

And all these rank and file Republicans are like the frat boys in Animal House.

"Thank you sir, may I have another!"

All of you class envy people are self loathing whiners.
Look pal, you're either inside or your outside.

I think that says a lot.

 

[Uncensored2008]

4% of the people in this country control 95% of the wealth.

BWAHAHAHA

Good god but your fuckers are stupid.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Quite a bit more than the 177,000 you are claiming, isn't it? FYI? "median" is not "average".

{Mean, median, and mode are three kinds of "averages". There are many "averages" in statistics, but these are, I think, the three most common, and are certainly the three you are most likely to encounter in your pre-statistics courses, if the topic comes up at all.

The "mean" is the "average" you're used to, where you add up all the numbers and then divide by the number of numbers. The "median" is the "middle" value in the list of numbers. To find the median, your numbers have to be listed in numerical order, so you may have to rewrite your list first. The "mode" is the value that occurs most often. If no number is repeated, then there is no mode for the list.}

Mean, Median, Mode, and Range

Try again, sparky...

 

[flacaltenn]

AgainSheila:

Raise the minimum wage to a living wage, return taxes to pre 1970 levels. Of course, you'll just ignore those suggestions as if they never happened and complain that "liberals" don't come up with any solutions. FYI, I'm a moderate. There are times "liberals" call me a conservative just as now you're calling me a liberal. I'm so sick of people trying to peg anyone that doesn't have their viewpoint as someone the complete opposite of them. FYI, you conservatives are just as bad for this country as the liberals. Democrats and Republicans are the two most corrupt parties in the history of this nation.

I'm quite certain that the wage gap will never be solved by "a living wage". In fact the very concept of a "living wage" is to make someone comfortable in a hellish job that is constantly threatened by automation or exportation. It's FAR more humane to look at those minimum workers and do some competent "career counseling". I look at the being under the burger hat and see a future chemical engineer or a lawyer. Leftists see only victims.. PERHAPS, we should require that minimum wage ONLY applies to people somehow enrolled in continuing education (with exceptions for retired or truly handicapped workers). That way if an employer want to EXPLOIT a butt-pickerupper at minimum wage, they MIGHT have to subsidize a trade school or GED instead.

That, AgainSheila, is more compassionate than simply "promoting the job".. Promote the PERSON!

 

[Againsheila]

AgainSheila:

Raise the minimum wage to a living wage, return taxes to pre 1970 levels. Of course, you'll just ignore those suggestions as if they never happened and complain that "liberals" don't come up with any solutions. FYI, I'm a moderate. There are times "liberals" call me a conservative just as now you're calling me a liberal. I'm so sick of people trying to peg anyone that doesn't have their viewpoint as someone the complete opposite of them. FYI, you conservatives are just as bad for this country as the liberals. Democrats and Republicans are the two most corrupt parties in the history of this nation.

I'm quite certain that the wage gap will never be solved by "a living wage". In fact the very concept of a "living wage" is to make someone comfortable in a hellish job that is constantly threatened by automation or exportation. It's FAR more humane to look at those minimum workers and do some competent "career counseling". I look at the being under the burger hat and see a future chemical engineer or a lawyer. Leftists see only victims.. PERHAPS, we should require that minimum wage ONLY applies to people somehow enrolled in continuing education (with exceptions for retired or truly handicapped workers). That way if an employer want to EXPLOIT a butt-pickerupper at minimum wage, they MIGHT have to subsidize a trade school or GED instead.

That, AgainSheila, is more compassionate than simply "promoting the job".. Promote the PERSON!

More than 75% of those working mw jobs are adults. You have to recognize that there were always be mw workers. If we pay them more, they can take college classes and work their way up. Keep them at starvation wages, as you want and they will never be able to climb the ladder, plus, we tax payers end up subsidizing their employers with earned income and foodstamps.

Do you really think these employers are going to pay for trade school when they won't even pay a living wage? How exactly are you going to get them to do that?

 

[thereisnospoon]

AgainSheila:

Raise the minimum wage to a living wage, return taxes to pre 1970 levels. Of course, you'll just ignore those suggestions as if they never happened and complain that "liberals" don't come up with any solutions. FYI, I'm a moderate. There are times "liberals" call me a conservative just as now you're calling me a liberal. I'm so sick of people trying to peg anyone that doesn't have their viewpoint as someone the complete opposite of them. FYI, you conservatives are just as bad for this country as the liberals. Democrats and Republicans are the two most corrupt parties in the history of this nation.

I'm quite certain that the wage gap will never be solved by "a living wage". In fact the very concept of a "living wage" is to make someone comfortable in a hellish job that is constantly threatened by automation or exportation. It's FAR more humane to look at those minimum workers and do some competent "career counseling". I look at the being under the burger hat and see a future chemical engineer or a lawyer. Leftists see only victims.. PERHAPS, we should require that minimum wage ONLY applies to people somehow enrolled in continuing education (with exceptions for retired or truly handicapped workers). That way if an employer want to EXPLOIT a butt-pickerupper at minimum wage, they MIGHT have to subsidize a trade school or GED instead.

That, AgainSheila, is more compassionate than simply "promoting the job".. Promote the PERSON!

More than 75% of those working mw jobs are adults. You have to recognize that there were always be mw workers. If we pay them more, they can take college classes and work their way up. Keep them at starvation wages, as you want and they will never be able to climb the ladder, plus, we tax payers end up subsidizing their employers with earned income and foodstamps.

Do you really think these employers are going to pay for trade school when they won't even pay a living wage? How exactly are you going to get them to do that?

75% of all min wage workers are adults huh?
Well sunshine, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, that is not true.
Characteristics of Minimum Wage Workers: 2009
Minimum wage workers tend to be young. Although workers under age 25 represented only about one-fifth of hourly-paid workers, they made up about half of those paid the Federal minimum wage or less. Among employed teenagers paid by the hour, nearly 19 percent earned the minimum wage or less, compared with about 3 percent of workers age 25 and over. (See table 1 and table 7.)
As a matter of fact those aged 25 and older make up just 3.2% of min wage workers.
If you want to stand in the middle of the room and scream that you are right, at least make sure you can back up your claims.....

 

[thereisnospoon]

AgainSheila:

Raise the minimum wage to a living wage, return taxes to pre 1970 levels. Of course, you'll just ignore those suggestions as if they never happened and complain that "liberals" don't come up with any solutions. FYI, I'm a moderate. There are times "liberals" call me a conservative just as now you're calling me a liberal. I'm so sick of people trying to peg anyone that doesn't have their viewpoint as someone the complete opposite of them. FYI, you conservatives are just as bad for this country as the liberals. Democrats and Republicans are the two most corrupt parties in the history of this nation.

I'm quite certain that the wage gap will never be solved by "a living wage". In fact the very concept of a "living wage" is to make someone comfortable in a hellish job that is constantly threatened by automation or exportation. It's FAR more humane to look at those minimum workers and do some competent "career counseling". I look at the being under the burger hat and see a future chemical engineer or a lawyer. Leftists see only victims.. PERHAPS, we should require that minimum wage ONLY applies to people somehow enrolled in continuing education (with exceptions for retired or truly handicapped workers). That way if an employer want to EXPLOIT a butt-pickerupper at minimum wage, they MIGHT have to subsidize a trade school or GED instead.

That, AgainSheila, is more compassionate than simply "promoting the job".. Promote the PERSON!

More than 75% of those working mw jobs are adults. You have to recognize that there were always be mw workers. If we pay them more, they can take college classes and work their way up. Keep them at starvation wages, as you want and they will never be able to climb the ladder, plus, we tax payers end up subsidizing their employers with earned income and foodstamps.

Do you really think these employers are going to pay for trade school when they won't even pay a living wage? How exactly are you going to get them to do that?

"If we pay them more"....Are you a business owner? Yes? Then lead the way and pay them your precious living wage. I understand that one pro labor group estimated the living wage in Los Angeles to be $34 per hour.
If you don't own a business, then you get to shut up.

 

[flacaltenn]

AgainSheila:

Raise the minimum wage to a living wage, return taxes to pre 1970 levels. Of course, you'll just ignore those suggestions as if they never happened and complain that "liberals" don't come up with any solutions. FYI, I'm a moderate. There are times "liberals" call me a conservative just as now you're calling me a liberal. I'm so sick of people trying to peg anyone that doesn't have their viewpoint as someone the complete opposite of them. FYI, you conservatives are just as bad for this country as the liberals. Democrats and Republicans are the two most corrupt parties in the history of this nation.

I'm quite certain that the wage gap will never be solved by "a living wage". In fact the very concept of a "living wage" is to make someone comfortable in a hellish job that is constantly threatened by automation or exportation. It's FAR more humane to look at those minimum workers and do some competent "career counseling". I look at the being under the burger hat and see a future chemical engineer or a lawyer. Leftists see only victims.. PERHAPS, we should require that minimum wage ONLY applies to people somehow enrolled in continuing education (with exceptions for retired or truly handicapped workers). That way if an employer want to EXPLOIT a butt-pickerupper at minimum wage, they MIGHT have to subsidize a trade school or GED instead.

That, AgainSheila, is more compassionate than simply "promoting the job".. Promote the PERSON!

More than 75% of those working mw jobs are adults. You have to recognize that there were always be mw workers. If we pay them more, they can take college classes and work their way up. Keep them at starvation wages, as you want and they will never be able to climb the ladder, plus, we tax payers end up subsidizing their employers with earned income and foodstamps.

Do you really think these employers are going to pay for trade school when they won't even pay a living wage? How exactly are you going to get them to do that?

Thanks to "Thereisnospoon" for pointing out the actual demographics of the minimum wage worker. AgainSheila, where is your compassion? These are mind-numbing jobs with (for the most part) no future. What a living wage does is to make folks comfortable in really crappy employment. It actually promotes the JOB, not the person. The goal should NOT be overpricing labor at the butt-pickerupper level (and therefore overpricing ALL labor), but to set a path for these folks to continue education and training WHILE they work. A large percentage of these folks ARE students (or semi-retired) and they ALL should training for a career. You get employers to DO THIS because if they don't subsidize the UNTRAINED entry level worker -- they've got nobody to hire except OVER-Qualified applicants that they can attract at HIGHER wages. And the PR benefits of a clever training program can pay for themselves.. Makes them look like angels..

Your other prescription was to return taxes to 1970 levels. Shouldn't be neccessary to do that. If you look at Fed tax revenue as a percent of GDP, it's been surprisingly flat since the 60's or so at around 18%. Linking revenues to GDP is the same rationale as COLA. The govt SHOULD be able consume less than 20% of EVERYTHING that gets produced in this country. I'd be glad to give the left the Bush Tax Cuts back. Largely because that would be the equivalent right now of really bad chemotherapy for the economic system. And THEN -- Pelosi-Reid, et al would have nothing left to suggest. They'd become irrelevent once their one solution is fielded and tested.

 

[Uncensored2008]

More than 75% of those working mw jobs are adults.

Doubtful.

I'll bet less than 10% are adults legally working in the USA.

No one stays at minimum.

 

[Foxfyre]

More than 75% of those working mw jobs are adults.

Doubtful.

I'll bet less than 10% are adults legally working in the USA.

No one stays at minimum.

According to the U.S. Department of Labor, the median annual income of a U.S. worker is $32,140. Federal minimum wage is currently $5.85 an hour, or about $11,500 per year — just above the poverty line.

Of the 76.5 million people paid by the hour in the United States in 2006, 2.2% make minimum wage or less. Here are some generalizations we can make about minimum wage workers:

•Most minimum wage earners are young. While 2.2% of all hourly workers earn minimum wage or less, just 1.4% of workers over the age of 25 are paid at or below the Federal minimum wage. More than half (51.2%) of minimum wage workers are between 16 and 24 years old. Another 21.2% are between 25 and 34.

•Most minimum wage earners work in food service. Nearly two-thirds of those paid minimum wage (or less) are food service workers. Many of these people receive supplemental income in the form of tips, which the government does not track.

•Most minimum wage earners never attended college. Just 1.2% of college graduates are paid the minimum wage. If you only have a high school degree, you’re more likely (1.9%) to be paid minimum wage. Those without a high school degree are nearly three times as likely (3.7%) to earn minimum wage. 59.8% of all minimum wage workers have no advanced education.

•Finally, as you might expect, part-time workers are five times more likely to be paid the minimum wage than full-time workers.
Who Earns Minimum Wage? A Statistical Profile

The problem is that many employers have such narrow profit margins they must be able to get their money's worth out of even minimum wage employees. The higher the minimum wage goes, the less ability they have to hire a green kid as an intern and give him a chance to develop a work ethic and references and learn marketble skills. I worked a lot of hours at less than $1/hour as a kid so by the time I was ready to support myself, I was ready and able to do that. Those same employers who hired me and gave me a chance to learn back then would be prohibited by law from doing so now.

And I think that is one of the reasons we have so many street kids now that grow up unqualified to do much of anything legal and quickly become among the hard core unemployed.

Labor is a commodity as much as anything else and when wages are artificially manipulated you almost always wind up with unintended negative consequences.

 

[Againsheila]

AgainSheila:



I'm quite certain that the wage gap will never be solved by "a living wage". In fact the very concept of a "living wage" is to make someone comfortable in a hellish job that is constantly threatened by automation or exportation. It's FAR more humane to look at those minimum workers and do some competent "career counseling". I look at the being under the burger hat and see a future chemical engineer or a lawyer. Leftists see only victims.. PERHAPS, we should require that minimum wage ONLY applies to people somehow enrolled in continuing education (with exceptions for retired or truly handicapped workers). That way if an employer want to EXPLOIT a butt-pickerupper at minimum wage, they MIGHT have to subsidize a trade school or GED instead.

That, AgainSheila, is more compassionate than simply "promoting the job".. Promote the PERSON!

More than 75% of those working mw jobs are adults. You have to recognize that there were always be mw workers. If we pay them more, they can take college classes and work their way up. Keep them at starvation wages, as you want and they will never be able to climb the ladder, plus, we tax payers end up subsidizing their employers with earned income and foodstamps.

Do you really think these employers are going to pay for trade school when they won't even pay a living wage? How exactly are you going to get them to do that?

Thanks to "Thereisnospoon" for pointing out the actual demographics of the minimum wage worker. AgainSheila, where is your compassion? These are mind-numbing jobs with (for the most part) no future. What a living wage does is to make folks comfortable in really crappy employment. It actually promotes the JOB, not the person. The goal should NOT be overpricing labor at the butt-pickerupper level (and therefore overpricing ALL labor), but to set a path for these folks to continue education and training WHILE they work. A large percentage of these folks ARE students (or semi-retired) and they ALL should training for a career. You get employers to DO THIS because if they don't subsidize the UNTRAINED entry level worker -- they've got nobody to hire except OVER-Qualified applicants that they can attract at HIGHER wages. And the PR benefits of a clever training program can pay for themselves.. Makes them look like angels..

Your other prescription was to return taxes to 1970 levels. Shouldn't be neccessary to do that. If you look at Fed tax revenue as a percent of GDP, it's been surprisingly flat since the 60's or so at around 18%. Linking revenues to GDP is the same rationale as COLA. The govt SHOULD be able consume less than 20% of EVERYTHING that gets produced in this country. I'd be glad to give the left the Bush Tax Cuts back. Largely because that would be the equivalent right now of really bad chemotherapy for the economic system. And THEN -- Pelosi-Reid, et al would have nothing left to suggest. They'd become irrelevent once their one solution is fielded and tested.

My friend has an associate's degree. She's been working as a maid most of her life. Why? She has tourette's syndrome and no one wants to hire her to work around people. Many people working mw jobs will never be able to find better jobs, education or not. Where is YOUR compassion? Do you really believe my friends who's worked hard all her life, doesn't deserve a living wage? I suppose you'd be happier if she went on disability and lived off our taxes?

Yeah fed taxes have been level because the middle class are paying MORE taxes while the wealthy are paying much much less in taxes, as are corporations.

 

[Polk]

Money has already be redistributed from the Middle Class to the top 3%.

Keeping a higher % of what YOU earn is redistribution?? Especially when you already pay a much higher % than the rest of the populace?

Warped mind you have there, rdummy

They pay a much higher percentage because they earn a much higher percentage.