My latest conversation with a solar panel salesman

[justoffal]

This fellow was more versed in electricity and physics than his predecessors all of home failed to make the sale. Most solar salesmen are not prepared to sit down with a power engineer who handles electricity and power for a living.... This fellow did pretty well in the technical conversation.

This product had a unique feature which included an individual inverter/rectifier for each panel rather than a large single inverter for the entire panel set. I thought that made sense.

His company offered to sister up the roof rafters If the engineers decided it was necessary. I told him I couldn't care less with his engineers thought.... I think it is necessary and I'm not going to do anything unless that's done first.

So we agreed on that.... Next was the electrical panel upgrade. Standard upgrade is about $7,500 to go from a 100 amp to a 200 amp service.

Since my dwelling is a two family ( actually it's one giant house but technically it is a two family with two electrical services) that would be $15,000 for the upgrade on the boxes.

Sistering up the rafters probably about another $10,000 .

Cost of the equipment about $40,000.

So naturally my question was how are they going to make any money with that kind of an upfront investment?

He explained this 25 Year lend/lease plan and promisec to replace my electric bill with a lower monthly payment and indicated that the company would fully insure the panels in the event of damage or a roof fire.. This is a major concern since many property insurance companies will cancel your policy when they find out you've installed solar panels without talking to them.

Still I was a bit puzzled as to how they could make this work. Then came the final number crunch. My average usage is about 700 KWH per month so I have a pretty good bill.. he was able to come up with a $400 a month payment plan that would actually be cheaper than my current electric bill only there was one caveat that came out in a very low tone near the end of the sentence.. I guess he probably figured I wouldn't hear it but I did. The payment increases by 3% annually for the length of the 25 years.

Most people probably don't understand what that means but I work with numbers for a living so I did a quick calculation.

400(1.03)²⁵.... That renders a final product of $837.57 per month at the end of the 25 years.

I think he was a bit shocked that I was able to come up with that number so quickly and that I understood what the rate raise meant.

So I quickly laid it all out on an Excel sheet and totaled the annual payments at the end of 25 years ....it's a pretty close to $200,000.

Am I going to spend $200,000 on electricity over the next 25 years? I highly doubt it. In fact I believe that electric rates will shrink drastically in the next 10 to 15 years as the world wakes up to the stupidity of trying to work against physics and produce energy that simply doesn't exist.

So how it works, they make the sale then they go to the finance agency and take the whole amount ahead of time. Finance agency, after it bundles up a number of these contracts will upsell them to an international bank in the form of something called a derivatives bundle.

If you remember correctly it was this kind of bundle that caused the global money correction of 2008.

Is this an extreme scam? You're goddamn right it is.

So I said have a nice day.....

Jo

 

[sparky]

JO, you should really check out the trackers Vs. rooftops........~S~

 

[justoffal]

JO, you should really check out the trackers Vs. rooftops........~S~

You need a pretty good patch of land for that don't you?

 

[sparky]

You need a pretty good patch of land for that don't you?

More a good view of southern sun JO

look, i'm not much more than a podunk spark, but i have been involved with a lot of alt energy

more 'umph' for your $$, and no roof worries.........~S~

 

[Concerned American]

This fellow was more versed in electricity and physics than his predecessors all of home failed to make the sale. Most solar salesmen are not prepared to sit down with a power engineer who handles electricity and power for a living.... This fellow did pretty well in the technical conversation.

This product had a unique feature which included an individual inverter/rectifier for each panel rather than a large single inverter for the entire panel set. I thought that made sense.

His company offered to sister up the roof rafters If the engineers decided it was necessary. I told him I couldn't care less with his engineers thought.... I think it is necessary and I'm not going to do anything unless that's done first.

So we agreed on that.... Next was the electrical panel upgrade. Standard upgrade is about $7,500 to go from a 100 amp to a 200 amp service.

Since my dwelling is a two family ( actually it's one giant house but technically it is a two family with two electrical services) that would be $15,000 for the upgrade on the boxes.

Sistering up the rafters probably about another $10,000 .

Cost of the equipment about $40,000.

So naturally my question was how are they going to make any money with that kind of an upfront investment?

He explained this 25 Year lend/lease plan and promisec to replace my electric bill with a lower monthly payment and indicated that the company would fully insure the panels in the event of damage or a roof fire.. This is a major concern since many property insurance companies will cancel your policy when they find out you've installed solar panels without talking to them.

Still I was a bit puzzled as to how they could make this work. Then came the final number crunch. My average usage is about 700 KWH per month so I have a pretty good bill.. he was able to come up with a $400 a month payment plan that would actually be cheaper than my current electric bill only there was one caveat that came out in a very low tone near the end of the sentence.. I guess he probably figured I wouldn't hear it but I did. The payment increases by 3% annually for the length of the 25 years.

Most people probably don't understand what that means but I work with numbers for a living so I did a quick calculation.

400(1.03)²⁵.... That renders a final product of $837.57 per month at the end of the 25 years.

I think he was a bit shocked that I was able to come up with that number so quickly and that I understood what the rate raise meant.

So I quickly laid it all out on an Excel sheet and totaled the annual payments at the end of 25 years it's a pretty close to $200,000.

Am I going to spend $200,000 on electricity over the next 25 years? I highly doubt it. In fact I believe that electric rates will shrink drastically in the next 10 to 15 years as the world wakes up to the stupidity of trying to work against physics and produce energy that simply doesn't exist.

So how it works is they make the sale then they go to finance agency and take the whole amount ahead of time. Finance agency after it bundles up a number of these contracts will upsell them to an international bank in the form of something called a derivatives bundle. If you remember correctly it was this kind of bundle that caused the global money correction of 2008.

Is this an extreme scam? Your goddamn right it is.

So I said have a nice day.....

Jo

I agree with your take. Here is something I didn't see addressed in your post. How old is your roof? Over 25 years, in all likelihood, you'll need to replace it in that time. How much is the cost of removal and replacement of the solar array in order to replace it? That is a cost as well.

 

[rightwinger]

This fellow was more versed in electricity and physics than his predecessors all of home failed to make the sale. Most solar salesmen are not prepared to sit down with a power engineer who handles electricity and power for a living.... This fellow did pretty well in the technical conversation.

This product had a unique feature which included an individual inverter/rectifier for each panel rather than a large single inverter for the entire panel set. I thought that made sense.

His company offered to sister up the roof rafters If the engineers decided it was necessary. I told him I couldn't care less with his engineers thought.... I think it is necessary and I'm not going to do anything unless that's done first.

So we agreed on that.... Next was the electrical panel upgrade. Standard upgrade is about $7,500 to go from a 100 amp to a 200 amp service.

Since my dwelling is a two family ( actually it's one giant house but technically it is a two family with two electrical services) that would be $15,000 for the upgrade on the boxes.

Sistering up the rafters probably about another $10,000 .

Cost of the equipment about $40,000.

So naturally my question was how are they going to make any money with that kind of an upfront investment?

He explained this 25 Year lend/lease plan and promisec to replace my electric bill with a lower monthly payment and indicated that the company would fully insure the panels in the event of damage or a roof fire.. This is a major concern since many property insurance companies will cancel your policy when they find out you've installed solar panels without talking to them.

Still I was a bit puzzled as to how they could make this work. Then came the final number crunch. My average usage is about 700 KWH per month so I have a pretty good bill.. he was able to come up with a $400 a month payment plan that would actually be cheaper than my current electric bill only there was one caveat that came out in a very low tone near the end of the sentence.. I guess he probably figured I wouldn't hear it but I did. The payment increases by 3% annually for the length of the 25 years.

Most people probably don't understand what that means but I work with numbers for a living so I did a quick calculation.

400(1.03)²⁵.... That renders a final product of $837.57 per month at the end of the 25 years.

I think he was a bit shocked that I was able to come up with that number so quickly and that I understood what the rate raise meant.

So I quickly laid it all out on an Excel sheet and totaled the annual payments at the end of 25 years ....it's a pretty close to $200,000.

Am I going to spend $200,000 on electricity over the next 25 years? I highly doubt it. In fact I believe that electric rates will shrink drastically in the next 10 to 15 years as the world wakes up to the stupidity of trying to work against physics and produce energy that simply doesn't exist.

So how it works, they make the sale then they go to the finance agency and take the whole amount ahead of time. Finance agency, after it bundles up a number of these contracts will upsell them to an international bank in the form of something called a derivatives bundle.

If you remember correctly it was this kind of bundle that caused the global money correction of 2008.

Is this an extreme scam? You're goddamn right it is.

So I said have a nice day.....

Jo

Damn

I could buy a Timeshare for that

 

[toobfreak]

Am I going to spend $200,000 on electricity over the next 25 years?

$100,000 is probably a more realistic figure.

 

[Stryder50]

I agree with your take. Here is something I didn't see addressed in your post. How old is your roof? Over 25 years, in all likelihood, you'll need to replace it in that time. How much is the cost of removal and replacement of the solar array in order to replace it? That is a cost as well.

Bingo!
That would be a major concern on my part. We replace~retiled the roof about 16 years ago, so the @25 year warrantee is over half gone.
So if we were to go for solar, it would have to be on high trellis structure in our backyard, which is mostly South facing.

 

[justoffal]

Damn

I could buy a Timeshare for that

Don't get me wrong ... I actually would like to do it but so far I haven't found a sales pitch that I can trust.

 

[AZrailwhale]

This fellow was more versed in electricity and physics than his predecessors all of home failed to make the sale. Most solar salesmen are not prepared to sit down with a power engineer who handles electricity and power for a living.... This fellow did pretty well in the technical conversation.

This product had a unique feature which included an individual inverter/rectifier for each panel rather than a large single inverter for the entire panel set. I thought that made sense.

His company offered to sister up the roof rafters If the engineers decided it was necessary. I told him I couldn't care less with his engineers thought.... I think it is necessary and I'm not going to do anything unless that's done first.

So we agreed on that.... Next was the electrical panel upgrade. Standard upgrade is about $7,500 to go from a 100 amp to a 200 amp service.

Since my dwelling is a two family ( actually it's one giant house but technically it is a two family with two electrical services) that would be $15,000 for the upgrade on the boxes.

Sistering up the rafters probably about another $10,000 .

Cost of the equipment about $40,000.

So naturally my question was how are they going to make any money with that kind of an upfront investment?

He explained this 25 Year lend/lease plan and promisec to replace my electric bill with a lower monthly payment and indicated that the company would fully insure the panels in the event of damage or a roof fire.. This is a major concern since many property insurance companies will cancel your policy when they find out you've installed solar panels without talking to them.

Still I was a bit puzzled as to how they could make this work. Then came the final number crunch. My average usage is about 700 KWH per month so I have a pretty good bill.. he was able to come up with a $400 a month payment plan that would actually be cheaper than my current electric bill only there was one caveat that came out in a very low tone near the end of the sentence.. I guess he probably figured I wouldn't hear it but I did. The payment increases by 3% annually for the length of the 25 years.

Most people probably don't understand what that means but I work with numbers for a living so I did a quick calculation.

400(1.03)²⁵.... That renders a final product of $837.57 per month at the end of the 25 years.

I think he was a bit shocked that I was able to come up with that number so quickly and that I understood what the rate raise meant.

So I quickly laid it all out on an Excel sheet and totaled the annual payments at the end of 25 years ....it's a pretty close to $200,000.

Am I going to spend $200,000 on electricity over the next 25 years? I highly doubt it. In fact I believe that electric rates will shrink drastically in the next 10 to 15 years as the world wakes up to the stupidity of trying to work against physics and produce energy that simply doesn't exist.

So how it works, they make the sale then they go to the finance agency and take the whole amount ahead of time. Finance agency, after it bundles up a number of these contracts will upsell them to an international bank in the form of something called a derivatives bundle.

If you remember correctly it was this kind of bundle that caused the global money correction of 2008.

Is this an extreme scam? You're goddamn right it is.

So I said have a nice day.....

Jo

That's why I bought my panels outright. The profits and cost savings go into my pocket, NOT the installation company's.

 

[justoffal]

I agree with your take. Here is something I didn't see addressed in your post. How old is your roof? Over 25 years, in all likelihood, you'll need to replace it in that time. How much is the cost of removal and replacement of the solar array in order to replace it? That is a cost as well.

My roof is brand new The roofing tiles are only 3 years old.. but the structure is over 100 years old and it's a low pitch roof with very long rafters.
I would be very suspicious of adding any weight to it without first reinforcing the structure.

 

[Muhammed]

This fellow was more versed in electricity and physics than his predecessors all of home failed to make the sale. Most solar salesmen are not prepared to sit down with a power engineer who handles electricity and power for a living.... This fellow did pretty well in the technical conversation.

This product had a unique feature which included an individual inverter/rectifier for each panel rather than a large single inverter for the entire panel set. I thought that made sense.

His company offered to sister up the roof rafters If the engineers decided it was necessary. I told him I couldn't care less with his engineers thought.... I think it is necessary and I'm not going to do anything unless that's done first.

So we agreed on that.... Next was the electrical panel upgrade. Standard upgrade is about $7,500 to go from a 100 amp to a 200 amp service.

Since my dwelling is a two family ( actually it's one giant house but technically it is a two family with two electrical services) that would be $15,000 for the upgrade on the boxes.

Sistering up the rafters probably about another $10,000 .

Cost of the equipment about $40,000.

So naturally my question was how are they going to make any money with that kind of an upfront investment?

He explained this 25 Year lend/lease plan and promisec to replace my electric bill with a lower monthly payment and indicated that the company would fully insure the panels in the event of damage or a roof fire.. This is a major concern since many property insurance companies will cancel your policy when they find out you've installed solar panels without talking to them.

Still I was a bit puzzled as to how they could make this work. Then came the final number crunch. My average usage is about 700 KWH per month so I have a pretty good bill.. he was able to come up with a $400 a month payment plan that would actually be cheaper than my current electric bill only there was one caveat that came out in a very low tone near the end of the sentence.. I guess he probably figured I wouldn't hear it but I did. The payment increases by 3% annually for the length of the 25 years.

Most people probably don't understand what that means but I work with numbers for a living so I did a quick calculation.

400(1.03)²⁵.... That renders a final product of $837.57 per month at the end of the 25 years.

I think he was a bit shocked that I was able to come up with that number so quickly and that I understood what the rate raise meant.

So I quickly laid it all out on an Excel sheet and totaled the annual payments at the end of 25 years ....it's a pretty close to $200,000.

Am I going to spend $200,000 on electricity over the next 25 years? I highly doubt it. In fact I believe that electric rates will shrink drastically in the next 10 to 15 years as the world wakes up to the stupidity of trying to work against physics and produce energy that simply doesn't exist.

So how it works, they make the sale then they go to the finance agency and take the whole amount ahead of time. Finance agency, after it bundles up a number of these contracts will upsell them to an international bank in the form of something called a derivatives bundle.

If you remember correctly it was this kind of bundle that caused the global money correction of 2008.

Is this an extreme scam? You're goddamn right it is.

So I said have a nice day.....

Jo

They are not selling solar panels, they are selling loans.

 

[Winco]

$100,000 is probably a more realistic figure.

Could you break it down and show how you spend $4,000 a year on electricity? ( or $333.33) per month?

So I quickly laid it all out on an Excel sheet and totaled the annual payments at the end of 25 years ....it's a pretty close to $200,000.

Ok, so share the breakdown.
How are you spending $666.67 per month ( or $8,000 ) per year on electricity.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Could you break it down and show how you spend $4,000 a year on electricity? ( or $333.33) per month?


Ok, so share the breakdown.
How are you spending $666.67 per month ( or $8,000 ) per year on electricity.

some people here in Vegas pay that much....

 

[justoffal]

I agree with your take. Here is something I didn't see addressed in your post. How old is your roof? Over 25 years, in all likelihood, you'll need to replace it in that time. How much is the cost of removal and replacement of the solar array in order to replace it? That is a cost as well.

My roof is brand new The roofing tiles are only 3 years old.. but the structure is over 100 years old and it's a low pitch roof with very long rafters.
I would be very suspicious of adding any weight to it without first reinforcing the structure

That's why I bought my panels outright. The profits and cost savings go into my pocket, NOT the installation company's.

If I'm not being too nosy how much does that cost? And what's the size of your system?

 

[Concerned American]

$100,000 is probably a more realistic figure.

LOL, if I'm around in 25 years, I'll take it as a win.

 

[Winco]

some people here in Vegas pay that much....

That's sad.

My summer electricity bill In WA State is always under $100 per month.
In Winter it escalates to Near $200.

I also buy Propane for the stove and fireplace.
That is $600 for a fill-up, which happens 1.5 times per year, so let's round that to $1,000 for the year.

Overall, follow the math....
Propane. $900 per year.
Electricity. $200x6, $100X6 = $1,800

so $2,700 per year is a very high estimate.
And this includes Electricity and Gas.

 

[justoffal]

Could you break it down and show how you spend $4,000 a year on electricity? ( or $333.33) per month?


Ok, so share the breakdown.
How are you spending $666.67 per month ( or $8,000 ) per year on electricity.

$4900.00 and change...
Electric stove
Electric clothes dryer ( probably the biggest user)
One refrigerator
Two freezers
Three air conditioners in the summer

 

[justoffal]

That's sad.

My summer electricity bill In WA State is always under $100 per month.
In Winter it escalates to Near $200.

I also buy Propane for the stove and fireplace.
That is $600 for a fill-up, which happens 1.5 times per year, so let's round that to $1,000 for the year.

Overall, follow the math....
Propane. $900 per year.
Electricity. $200x6, $100X6 = $1,800

so $2,700 per year is a very high estimate.
And this includes Electricity and Gas.

That's not bad

 

[justoffal]

They are not selling solar panels, they are selling loans.

Yes! Exxxxxactly