My own message on the 9th of Av.

[Lipush]

and i would find that equally as offensive.

i have a prayer in my signature, or part of a prayer...

it means when transkated (and it loses a little intranslation)

"walk humbly along the road,
and greet the poor person twice."

i don't know...maybe the purpose of prayer is to proclaim your culture's closeness to god above that of other cultures.

i guess gods need to be on somebody's side.

I think every religion promotes a special closeness to God for it's people - or at least the main ones we are familiar with. I see no uniqueness of this with Jews, which is why it troubles me to see references to them as regarding themselves as special or chosen. Often, I think all religions have a certain arrogance - an inclusive "we" and exclusive "other".

When I read Lipush's post - I see a desire for a people to be a better people - to put aside differences, to be compassionate. It's a particular prayer for a particular day

I wish,
that we could renew our days here, like long ago.
I wish
that a nation won't wave its sword to another nationI wish
that we will not desert the path of hope
I wish
that the human will be compassionate from morning till evening
I wish
that there will be a tiny chance for love

I like your sig - "walk humbly along the road, and greet the poor person twice."

That is a good one to remember in life

i think a jewish person would be very offended if a catholic or muslim made such claims and prayed to shine their light onto the jews. i certainly would be.

also, i find it offensive in light of all the other comments that occur on other days justifying the crimes against humanity being committed by the israels and the waving of swords as mentioned above.

as for the use of "chosen", i think it entirely appropriate for this prayer. that prayer makes the distinction....shining light on gentiles.

also, let's not forget the objection raised by jews and/or israelis about some latin rite mass prayer and their denigration of the omnipresent "allah akbar" which is also a prayer.

because something is a prayer does not mean it is inoffensive and as for the good intent, hitler had the good intent of restoring germany to her former glory, but that good intent really didn't work out now, did it, on his particular pathway to hell.

People chose to be insulted by many things which have no insulting meaning.

Basically, you can choose to be insulted almost by every thing on earth.

So?

 

[Coyote]

Why are you choosing to be insulted with things that has no hidden insulting meaning? I mean, what's the idea?

i am not personally insulted at all because i have very little regard for racist and/or ethnocentricalolly bigoted comments in casual conversation, serious discussion, or religious rote.

it just goes against my grain when one people think they are the heart of the world or have some particular worth so as to shine a light upon the rest of us...i.e. "gentiles".

perhaps i jsut have an inclination to defend my and my other gentiles' commonality against words uttered by those who seem to have chosen to think of themselves as particularly enlightened and worthy.

I wonder if Seal would think it arrogant if he spotted a bumper sticker saying "Islam is the Answer to All Your Modern Problems." I had no problem with seeing that because I know it is different strokes for different folks. Additionally, I wonder how Seal would have responded when an Iranian man on a forum said that Islam is not just for the iranians or the Arabs -- it is for the entire world. Would Seal have said that this poster was being arrogant thinking his religion was for the entire world?

I wonder if Hoss thinks it's arrogant when Christians sport bumper stickers like "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven" Or is it just Islam?

 

[Coyote]

and i would find that equally as offensive.

i have a prayer in my signature, or part of a prayer...

it means when transkated (and it loses a little intranslation)

"walk humbly along the road,
and greet the poor person twice."

i don't know...maybe the purpose of prayer is to proclaim your culture's closeness to god above that of other cultures.

i guess gods need to be on somebody's side.

I think every religion promotes a special closeness to God for it's people - or at least the main ones we are familiar with. I see no uniqueness of this with Jews, which is why it troubles me to see references to them as regarding themselves as special or chosen. Often, I think all religions have a certain arrogance - an inclusive "we" and exclusive "other".

When I read Lipush's post - I see a desire for a people to be a better people - to put aside differences, to be compassionate. It's a particular prayer for a particular day

I wish,
that we could renew our days here, like long ago.
I wish
that a nation won't wave its sword to another nationI wish
that we will not desert the path of hope
I wish
that the human will be compassionate from morning till evening
I wish
that there will be a tiny chance for love

I like your sig - "walk humbly along the road, and greet the poor person twice."

That is a good one to remember in life

i think a jewish person would be very offended if a catholic or muslim made such claims and prayed to shine their light onto the jews. i certainly would be.

also, i find it offensive in light of all the other comments that occur on other days justifying the crimes against humanity being committed by the israels and the waving of swords as mentioned above.

as for the use of "chosen", i think it entirely appropriate for this prayer. that prayer makes the distinction....shining light on gentiles.

also, let's not forget the objection raised by jews and/or israelis about some latin rite mass prayer and their denigration of the omnipresent "allah akbar" which is also a prayer.

because something is a prayer does not mean it is inoffensive and as for the good intent, hitler had the good intent of restoring germany to her former glory, but that good intent really didn't work out now, did it, on his particular pathway to hell.

Seal, once you start making comparisons to Hitler, your statement loses credability

Lipush explained what she meant, and it was not arrogance. Your attaching a meaning to it that wasn't meant. Aren't you lumping all Jews into one stereotype here represented by some of the more extreme posters?

 

[Hossfly]

i am not personally insulted at all because i have very little regard for racist and/or ethnocentricalolly bigoted comments in casual conversation, serious discussion, or religious rote.

it just goes against my grain when one people think they are the heart of the world or have some particular worth so as to shine a light upon the rest of us...i.e. "gentiles".

perhaps i jsut have an inclination to defend my and my other gentiles' commonality against words uttered by those who seem to have chosen to think of themselves as particularly enlightened and worthy.

I wonder if Seal would think it arrogant if he spotted a bumper sticker saying "Islam is the Answer to All Your Modern Problems." I had no problem with seeing that because I know it is different strokes for different folks. Additionally, I wonder how Seal would have responded when an Iranian man on a forum said that Islam is not just for the iranians or the Arabs -- it is for the entire world. Would Seal have said that this poster was being arrogant thinking his religion was for the entire world?

I wonder if Hoss thinks it's arrogant when Christians sport bumper stickers like "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven" Or is it just Islam?

It's arrogant for any religion to say those things on a bumper sticker.

 

[Coyote]

I wonder if Seal would think it arrogant if he spotted a bumper sticker saying "Islam is the Answer to All Your Modern Problems." I had no problem with seeing that because I know it is different strokes for different folks. Additionally, I wonder how Seal would have responded when an Iranian man on a forum said that Islam is not just for the iranians or the Arabs -- it is for the entire world. Would Seal have said that this poster was being arrogant thinking his religion was for the entire world?

I wonder if Hoss thinks it's arrogant when Christians sport bumper stickers like "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven" Or is it just Islam?

It's arrogant for any religion to say those things on a bumper sticker.

You'd be amazed at the religious wisdom to be found on bumper stickers...don't dis them

 

[sealadaigh]

I think every religion promotes a special closeness to God for it's people - or at least the main ones we are familiar with. I see no uniqueness of this with Jews, which is why it troubles me to see references to them as regarding themselves as special or chosen. Often, I think all religions have a certain arrogance - an inclusive "we" and exclusive "other".

When I read Lipush's post - I see a desire for a people to be a better people - to put aside differences, to be compassionate. It's a particular prayer for a particular day




I like your sig - "walk humbly along the road, and greet the poor person twice."

That is a good one to remember in life

i think a jewish person would be very offended if a catholic or muslim made such claims and prayed to shine their light onto the jews. i certainly would be.

also, i find it offensive in light of all the other comments that occur on other days justifying the crimes against humanity being committed by the israels and the waving of swords as mentioned above.

as for the use of "chosen", i think it entirely appropriate for this prayer. that prayer makes the distinction....shining light on gentiles.

also, let's not forget the objection raised by jews and/or israelis about some latin rite mass prayer and their denigration of the omnipresent "allah akbar" which is also a prayer.

because something is a prayer does not mean it is inoffensive and as for the good intent, hitler had the good intent of restoring germany to her former glory, but that good intent really didn't work out now, did it, on his particular pathway to hell.

Seal, once you start making comparisons to Hitler, your statement loses credability

Lipush explained what she meant, and it was not arrogance. Your attaching a meaning to it that wasn't meant. Aren't you lumping all Jews into one stereotype here represented by some of the more extreme posters?

it was not a comparison, first of all, but if it were, i see no reason why it would render the lacking in credibility.

a long time ago, marg suggested i not make those comparisons and i stopped, even though i did it rarely. the jewish posters continued. marg held out for awhile but picked it up again.

it was not a comparison with hitler. it was a statement about good intent.

i am not lumping all jews but i am talking about this prayer/song. and adressing those who seem to acceot it...and particularly in light of the battle cry on this board "JUDEA AND SAMARIA BELONGS TO THE JEWS."

oh well, as the sagart says "let us pray"...

Let us pray also for the Jews: that almighty God may remove the veil from their hearts; so that they too may acknowledge Jesus Christ our Lord. Let us pray. Let us kneel. Arise. Almighty and eternal God, who dost also not exclude from thy mercy the Jews: hear our prayers, which we offer for the blindness of that people; that acknowledging the light of thy Truth, which is Christ, they may be delivered from their darkness. Through the same our Lord Jesus Christ, who liveth and reigneth with thee in the unity of the Holy Spirit, God, for ever and ever. Amen.

seems like some jews made a stink about this, for whatever reason i know not...i did know once though.

jesus loves you, lipush, and i'm tryin' awfully hard.

 

[sealadaigh]

this went right along with our baltimore catechism...
we were made to memorise it and explain its meaning...

Abou Ben Adhem
Abou Ben Adhem (may his tribe increase!)
Awoke one night from a deep dream of peace,
And saw, within the moonlight in his room,
Making it rich, and like a lily in bloom,
An angel writing in a book of gold:—
Exceeding peace had made Ben Adhem bold,
And to the Presence in the room he said
"What writest thou?"—The vision raised its head,
And with a look made of all sweet accord,
Answered "The names of those who love the Lord."
"And is mine one?" said Abou. "Nay, not so,"
Replied the angel. Abou spoke more low,
But cheerly still, and said "I pray thee, then,
Write me as one that loves his fellow men."

The angel wrote, and vanished. The next night
It came again with a great wakening light,
And showed the names whom love of God had blessed,
And lo! Ben Adhem's name led all the rest.

James Henry Leigh Hunt

 

[sealadaigh]

I wonder if Hoss thinks it's arrogant when Christians sport bumper stickers like "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven" Or is it just Islam?

It's arrogant for any religion to say those things on a bumper sticker.

You'd be amazed at the religious wisdom to be found on bumper stickers...don't dis them

onliest wisdom i ever saw liike that was on a bumper hangin' by coathangers from the back of an old volkswagen beetle with the vanity plate "g samsa".

 

[Lipush]

Eh?

 

[Hossfly]

i think a jewish person would be very offended if a catholic or muslim made such claims and prayed to shine their light onto the jews. i certainly would be.

also, i find it offensive in light of all the other comments that occur on other days justifying the crimes against humanity being committed by the israels and the waving of swords as mentioned above.

as for the use of "chosen", i think it entirely appropriate for this prayer. that prayer makes the distinction....shining light on gentiles.

also, let's not forget the objection raised by jews and/or israelis about some latin rite mass prayer and their denigration of the omnipresent "allah akbar" which is also a prayer.

because something is a prayer does not mean it is inoffensive and as for the good intent, hitler had the good intent of restoring germany to her former glory, but that good intent really didn't work out now, did it, on his particular pathway to hell.

Seal, once you start making comparisons to Hitler, your statement loses credability

Lipush explained what she meant, and it was not arrogance. Your attaching a meaning to it that wasn't meant. Aren't you lumping all Jews into one stereotype here represented by some of the more extreme posters?

it was not a comparison, first of all, but if it were, i see no reason why it would render the lacking in credibility.

a long time ago, marg suggested i not make those comparisons and i stopped, even though i did it rarely. the jewish posters continued. marg held out for awhile but picked it up again.

it was not a comparison with hitler. it was a statement about good intent.

i am not lumping all jews but i am talking about this prayer/song. and adressing those who seem to acceot it...and particularly in light of the battle cry on this board "JUDEA AND SAMARIA BELONGS TO THE JEWS."

oh well, as the sagart says "let us pray"...

Let us pray also for the Jews: that almighty God may remove the veil from their hearts; so that they too may acknowledge Jesus Christ our Lord. Let us pray. Let us kneel. Arise. Almighty and eternal God, who dost also not exclude from thy mercy the Jews: hear our prayers, which we offer for the blindness of that people; that acknowledging the light of thy Truth, which is Christ, they may be delivered from their darkness. Through the same our Lord Jesus Christ, who liveth and reigneth with thee in the unity of the Holy Spirit, God, for ever and ever. Amen.

seems like some jews made a stink about this, for whatever reason i know not...i did know once though.

jesus loves you, lipush, and i'm tryin' awfully hard.

You will have to forgive Seal for having such a problem and being so petty with a Jewish Remembrance Day because he is trying to emulate his Muslim pals and is very hungry and thirsty right now. He is eagerly awaiting the Iftar tonight to which he has been invited, and then he will really dig in and be a jolly Irishman again.

 

[sealadaigh]

Eh?

"als gregor samsa eines morgens aus unruhigen traumen erwachte, fand er sich in seinem bett zu einem ungeheueren ungeziefer verwandelt.”
(F.K.)

"ARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH!!! THOSE BROGUES WOULD FIT A GODZILLA!!!"
chirp, chirp chirp...
(seal, from one of his nightmares)

 

[Hossfly]

Eh?

"als gregor samsa eines morgens aus unruhigen traumen erwachte, fand er sich in seinem bett zu einem ungeheueren ungeziefer verwandelt.”
(F.K.)

"ARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH!!! THOSE BROGUES WOULD FIT A GODZILLA!!!"
chirp, chirp chirp...
(seal, from one of his nightmares)

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