Nationalized health care inserted in the Stimulus package

[oreo]

Tom Dashel wrote a book on health care. I think it is due to be published. But one medical anaylsis on Lou Dobbs--got a preview of his book. On page 198--he actually states that the only way legislation would pass on his new medical recommendations--would be to stick it in another bill--I.E. this huge economic stimulus bill that really isn't.

 

[Sinatra]

The vast majority of job creation for some time has been "small" business. I operate a corporation as does my wife.

We could hire more if our corporate tax rate was lower. Multiply our example by thousands across the United States and you have the potential for hundreds of thousands of new jobs. This wealth creation in turn increases the overall tax base, as well as supporting other business/industries.

If you are talking down tax breaks, you are simply showing an alarming lack of understanding regarding the needs of our economy.

Cut taxes, create growth, jobs, increased opportunity for ALL Americans.

Here's the thing, all I've heard Republicans propose and WANT is Tax cuts. So when you have only tax cuts, then YES it is a bad thing.

For a STIMULUS PACKAGE - it should be the primary focus.

NOT a spending pork bill.


That is what we have - and it is an abomination.

 

[oreo]

Son, that DeMint bill would have done more good, more quickly, for far more, than the porkulus abomination passed by the Democrat controlled Senate today.

Those do not represent "cuts for the rich" - that kind of class warfare is Democrat 101 and it has always been a sham. The DeMint bill would have ushered in significant investment dollars into this country - job creation would be initiated far more quickly, the stock market would stabalize, followed by the housing market within a year after.

Particularly the corporate rate cute and the reduction of the tax brackets to 15 and 10.

MY GOD - that would have done so much.

The thing is - WHY the Republicans did not usher in this kind of proposal themselves when they had the political power. They wilted. They were lacking leadership - and only now are finding it again when they are politically outnumbered.

BAH!!

Let me ask you something Sinatra. And give me a honest answer here.

If the poor do not pay taxes supposedly because they don't make enough, then who is going to catch a break with these tax cuts? The Rich

The poor do not own corporations. These corporations also aren't hiring in the U.S. if you've last checked. They either hire illegals or send their business overseas where it's alot cheaper. Welcome to a little thing called REALITY!

These tax cuts would of done little to nothing to help the poor; the most would of been similar to bread crumbs given by the rich to silence the poor.

But George Carlin always did sum it up best:

"Capitalism tries for a delicate balance: It attempts to work things out so that everyone gets just enough stuff to keep them from getting violent and trying to take other people’s stuff. "

The vast majority of job creation for some time has been "small" business. I operate a corporation as does my wife.

We could hire more if our corporate tax rate was lower. Multiply our example by thousands across the United States and you have the potential for hundreds of thousands of new jobs. This wealth creation in turn increases the overall tax base, as well as supporting other business/industries.

If you are talking down tax breaks, you are simply showing an alarming lack of understanding regarding the needs of our economy.

Cut taxes, create growth, jobs, increased opportunity for ALL Americans.

DITTO-- I am small business also. We have been electrical contractors for over 30 years. One of my friends said--well--people making over 250 K per year should pay more taxes.

I said--well, if you think I am going to be put under that kind of additional stress, missing vacations, working 24/7, hiring more employees, more payroll taxes, dealing with inspectors & customers, buying new work trucks, tools for employees, so I can vault myself into a 39% tax bracket, you're out of your mind. My friend was in a total state of shock. I think he finally saw the other side of the tax coin--relating to taxes to people who make over 250K. In fact, in that tax bracket, they will do everything they can to stay out of it. Meaning no new growth in small business.

I imagine millions of other small business people are thinking the same way I do.

 

[KMAN]

Will Ted Kennedy and the Democrats be forced to go through the same procedure of having the health czar review his case to see if it's worth saving his life???? Yeah right.

 

[KMAN]

So now I guess liberals don't mind having their medical records released... I wish you libs would make up your mind, you're making my head spin with every flip flop....

 

[Sinatra]

Let me ask you something Sinatra. And give me a honest answer here.

If the poor do not pay taxes supposedly because they don't make enough, then who is going to catch a break with these tax cuts? The Rich

The poor do not own corporations. These corporations also aren't hiring in the U.S. if you've last checked. They either hire illegals or send their business overseas where it's alot cheaper. Welcome to a little thing called REALITY!

These tax cuts would of done little to nothing to help the poor; the most would of been similar to bread crumbs given by the rich to silence the poor.

But George Carlin always did sum it up best:

"Capitalism tries for a delicate balance: It attempts to work things out so that everyone gets just enough stuff to keep them from getting violent and trying to take other people’s stuff. "

The vast majority of job creation for some time has been "small" business. I operate a corporation as does my wife.

We could hire more if our corporate tax rate was lower. Multiply our example by thousands across the United States and you have the potential for hundreds of thousands of new jobs. This wealth creation in turn increases the overall tax base, as well as supporting other business/industries.

If you are talking down tax breaks, you are simply showing an alarming lack of understanding regarding the needs of our economy.

Cut taxes, create growth, jobs, increased opportunity for ALL Americans.

DITTO-- I am small business also. We have been electrical contractors for over 30 years. One of my friends said--well--people making over 250 K per year should pay more taxes.

I said--well, if you think I am going to be put under that kind of additional stress, missing vacations, working 24/7, hiring more employees, more payroll taxes, dealing with inspectors & customers, buying new work trucks, tools for employees, so I can vault myself into a 39% tax bracket, you're out of your mind. My friend was in a total state of shock. I think he finally saw the other side of the tax coin--relating to taxes to people who make over 250K. In fact, in that tax bracket, they will do everything they can to stay out of it. Meaning no new growth in small business.

I imagine millions of other small business people are thinking the same way I do.

Amen. We have purposely reduced business to remain in our current tax bracket - that is how the tax code actually contracts the economy. We penciled it out, and between my wife and I, if we had a 10% reduction in our tax rates we would be willing to hire 2 additional full time and one part time positions.

Might seem like a small impact, but you multiply that many thousands of times over all across the country, and you see hundreds of thousands of new jobs being created.

I have an associate who runs a large machine shop with contracts spread througout six states. He recently laid off 7 employees. That's 7 families now without a primary earner. 7 families scrambling for health insurance. 7 families facing a very uncertain economic future. If his tax burden was not so great, this number would have been greatly reduced. He still would have had to make cuts due to the economy, but not nearly so many. He told me when you add up all the taxes and fees his business has to pay, he is nearing paying out 50% of every dollar his business earns to the government.

50% of every dollar earned.

When Obama pushes through his increases in the tax code, that number will be pushed over 50%.

Ladies and gentleman, that reality hurts our economy - it limits job growth, hurts families, hurts every damn one of us.

That appears to be the Obama way...

 

[KMAN]

It's funny that libs had a cow when Bush wanted to listen to terrorist's phone calls yet know they don't have a problem giving the government their medical records... Hypocrits!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Care4all]

insurance companies already dictate care.

how do you know the standard isn't higher in this bill?

answer: you don't.

and it governs only medicaid as far as i could tell.

last time i checked i wasn't medicaid eligible.

Do you have any proof?

Have you seen this?
Democratic Stealth Care - WSJ.com
Under "stimulus," Medicaid is now on offer not to just poor Americans, but Americans who have lost their jobs. And not just Americans who have lost their jobs, but their spouses and their children. And not Americans who recently lost their jobs, but those who lost jobs, say, early last year. And not just Americans who already lost their jobs, but those who will lose their jobs up to 2011. The federal government is graciously footing the whole bill. The legislation also forbids states to apply income tests in most cases.House Democrat Henry Waxman was so thrilled by this blowout, it was left to Republicans to remind him that the very banking millionaires he dragged to the Hill last year for a grilling would now qualify for government aid. His response? A GOP proposal to limit subsidies to Americans with incomes under $1 million was accepted during markup, but had disappeared by final passage. In this new health-care nirvana, even the rich are welcome. CBO estimates? An additional 1.2 million on the federal Medicaid dime in 2009.

The "stimulus" also hijacks Cobra, a program that lets the unemployed retain access to their former company health benefits -- usually for about 18 months. The new stimulus permits any former employee over the age of 55 to keep using Cobra right up until they qualify for Medicare at age 65. And here's the kicker: Whereas employees were previously responsible for paying their health premiums while on Cobra, now the feds will pay 65%. CBO estimates? Seven million Americans will have the feds mostly pay their insurance bills in 2009.

2 years ago, it was $700 a month for our COBRA payment for matt and I when he was unemployed....i don't know too may people who can pay $700 a month while they are unemployed for COBRA and add that to a $1500 a month mortgage and property tax payment of $4000 a year, and now it would probably be $800 a month minimum for 2 for the same COBRA policy....

we payed it, took money out of our savings/emergency fund or put it on a credit card at the time, every month till he had a job again...and did NOT have to use it once, so the insurance company cleaned up, to say the least.....and it took almost a year for him to find a decent job..... but it damn near broke us, completely....and if our house had not sold, when it did....we would be one of those statistics out there....homeless and without medical insurance.....

I don't wish that situation on anyone....my hair was falling out in clumps by the end of the experience cuz of all the stress....and a first for us...Never in near 30 years of constantly working had we ever been in such a bad spot....we didn't qualify for any gvt help, though if we had, I would have taken it!!!!

Care

 

[jreeves]

Do you have any proof?

Have you seen this?
Democratic Stealth Care - WSJ.com
Under "stimulus," Medicaid is now on offer not to just poor Americans, but Americans who have lost their jobs. And not just Americans who have lost their jobs, but their spouses and their children. And not Americans who recently lost their jobs, but those who lost jobs, say, early last year. And not just Americans who already lost their jobs, but those who will lose their jobs up to 2011. The federal government is graciously footing the whole bill. The legislation also forbids states to apply income tests in most cases.House Democrat Henry Waxman was so thrilled by this blowout, it was left to Republicans to remind him that the very banking millionaires he dragged to the Hill last year for a grilling would now qualify for government aid. His response? A GOP proposal to limit subsidies to Americans with incomes under $1 million was accepted during markup, but had disappeared by final passage. In this new health-care nirvana, even the rich are welcome. CBO estimates? An additional 1.2 million on the federal Medicaid dime in 2009.

The "stimulus" also hijacks Cobra, a program that lets the unemployed retain access to their former company health benefits -- usually for about 18 months. The new stimulus permits any former employee over the age of 55 to keep using Cobra right up until they qualify for Medicare at age 65. And here's the kicker: Whereas employees were previously responsible for paying their health premiums while on Cobra, now the feds will pay 65%. CBO estimates? Seven million Americans will have the feds mostly pay their insurance bills in 2009.

2 years ago, it was $700 a month for our COBRA payment for matt and I when he was unemployed....i don't know too may people who can pay $700 a month while they are unemployed for COBRA and add that to a $1500 a month mortgage and property tax payment of $4000 a year, and now it would probably be $800 a month minimum for 2 for the same COBRA policy....

we payed it, took money out of our savings/emergency fund or put it on a credit card at the time, every month till he had a job again...and did NOT have to use it once, so the insurance company cleaned up, to say the least.....and it took almost a year for him to find a decent job..... but it damn near broke us, completely....and if our house had not sold, when it did....we would be one of those statistics out there....homeless and without medical insurance.....

I don't wish that situation on anyone....my hair was falling out in clumps by the end of the experience cuz of all the stress....and a first for us...Never in near 30 years of constantly working had we ever been in such a bad spot....we didn't qualify for any gvt help, though if we had, I would have taken it!!!!

Care

If you and your husband were making 5 million a year and lost your job, you would still qualify. Would you still have needed the government help? For some reason I don't think someone making that much should qualify for government help.

 

[rayboyusmc]

There is no secret provision. This bullshit was started by you little ex governor, picked up by Rush and then picked up by Drudge.

I say again: THERE IS NO SECRET PROVISION. IT IS A LIE.

Fox went right along with it. Your little ex governor took what she wanted out of the plan and just happened to skip some words.

Her think tank is funded by pharmaceutical companies. This woman is a healthcare consultant who has been around since the Clinton days and has offered her employment to big Pharma.


I SAY AGAIN - IT WAS BULLSHIT

Big Pharma has a funded interest in stopping this bill.

 

[jreeves]

There is no secret provision. This bullshit was started by you little ex governor, picked up by Rush and then picked up by Drudge.

I say again: THERE IS NO SECRET PROVISION. IT IS A LIE.

Fox went right along with it. Your little ex governor took what she wanted out of the plan and just happened to skip some words.

Her think tank is funded by pharmaceutical companies. This woman is a healthcare consultant who has been around since the Clinton days and has offered her employment to big Pharma.


I SAY AGAIN - IT WAS BULLSHIT

Big Pharma has a funded interest in stopping this bill.

Read the Bill and then tell me it's not true. I repeat read the bill...

 

[rayboyusmc]

I just saw that part of the bill on TV on Countdown. He showed it as it is in the plan. It doesn't say what she said.

Have you read the bill?

 

[WillowTree]

The vast majority of job creation for some time has been "small" business. I operate a corporation as does my wife.

We could hire more if our corporate tax rate was lower. Multiply our example by thousands across the United States and you have the potential for hundreds of thousands of new jobs. This wealth creation in turn increases the overall tax base, as well as supporting other business/industries.

If you are talking down tax breaks, you are simply showing an alarming lack of understanding regarding the needs of our economy.

Cut taxes, create growth, jobs, increased opportunity for ALL Americans.

DITTO-- I am small business also. We have been electrical contractors for over 30 years. One of my friends said--well--people making over 250 K per year should pay more taxes.

I said--well, if you think I am going to be put under that kind of additional stress, missing vacations, working 24/7, hiring more employees, more payroll taxes, dealing with inspectors & customers, buying new work trucks, tools for employees, so I can vault myself into a 39% tax bracket, you're out of your mind. My friend was in a total state of shock. I think he finally saw the other side of the tax coin--relating to taxes to people who make over 250K. In fact, in that tax bracket, they will do everything they can to stay out of it. Meaning no new growth in small business.

I imagine millions of other small business people are thinking the same way I do.

Amen. We have purposely reduced business to remain in our current tax bracket - that is how the tax code actually contracts the economy. We penciled it out, and between my wife and I, if we had a 10% reduction in our tax rates we would be willing to hire 2 additional full time and one part time positions.

Might seem like a small impact, but you multiply that many thousands of times over all across the country, and you see hundreds of thousands of new jobs being created.

I have an associate who runs a large machine shop with contracts spread througout six states. He recently laid off 7 employees. That's 7 families now without a primary earner. 7 families scrambling for health insurance. 7 families facing a very uncertain economic future. If his tax burden was not so great, this number would have been greatly reduced. He still would have had to make cuts due to the economy, but not nearly so many. He told me when you add up all the taxes and fees his business has to pay, he is nearing paying out 50% of every dollar his business earns to the government.

50% of every dollar earned.

When Obama pushes through his increases in the tax code, that number will be pushed over 50%.

Ladies and gentleman, that reality hurts our economy - it limits job growth, hurts families, hurts every damn one of us.

That appears to be the Obama way...[/QUOTE]



I cannot understand why he dosen't understand.. it is most

 

[rayboyusmc]

Back to this thread.

It is a lie by the author. Here is a pdf of the stimulus bill.

J, you can look it up. It's 765 pages.

It was a lie and the right bought right into it because it was a good way to attack the plan.

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/senatestimamendment.pdf

 

[rayboyusmc]

50% of every dollar earned.

In taxes Willow?

 

[jreeves]

Back to this thread.

It is a lie by the author. Here is a pdf of the stimulus bill.

J, you can look it up. It's 765 pages.

It was a lie and the right bought right into it because it was a good way to attack the plan.

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/senatestimamendment.pdf

This is a massive bill, here is an example of how the NCHIT will control care.
Straight from your link...
‘‘(b) REQUIREMENT TO IMPROVE QUALITY OF CARE
AND DECREASE IN COSTS.—The National Coordinator
shall annually evaluate the activities conducted under this
title and shall, in awarding grants, implement the lessons
learned from such evaluation in a manner so that awards made subsequent to each such evaluation are made in a
manner that, in the determination of the National Coordi
nator, will result in the greatest improvement in the qual
ity and efficiency of health care.

 

[rayboyusmc]

The Stimulus Bill has tax cuts for business.

Negotiators sweetened another tax break at the last minute, doubling to $1.6 billion a provision that would benefit businesses that buy their own debt at a discount. It was a major priority of business groups such as the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, which argued it would help firms and banks clear debt from their balance sheets and begin to hire workers and lend money to customers. The business group announced its support of the bill, despite the heavy opposition from its customary Republican allies in Congress

The Associated Press: Lawmakers say all issues settled in stimulus bill

 

[jreeves]

Back to this thread.

It is a lie by the author. Here is a pdf of the stimulus bill.

J, you can look it up. It's 765 pages.

It was a lie and the right bought right into it because it was a good way to attack the plan.

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/senatestimamendment.pdf

This is a massive bill, here is an example of how the NCHIT will control care.
Straight from your link...
‘‘(b) REQUIREMENT TO IMPROVE QUALITY OF CARE
AND DECREASE IN COSTS.—The National Coordinator
shall annually evaluate the activities conducted under this
title and shall, in awarding grants, implement the lessons
learned from such evaluation in a manner so that awards made subsequent to each such evaluation are made in a
manner that, in the determination of the National Coordi
nator, will result in the greatest improvement in the qual
ity and efficiency of health care.

More from your link...

‘‘(b) PURPOSE.—The National Coordinator shall per
form the duties under subsection (c) in a manner con
sistent with the development of a nationwide health infor
mation technology infrastructure that allows for the elec
tronic use and exchange of information and that—
‘‘(1) ensures that each patient’s health informa
tion is secure and protected, in accordance with ap
plicable law;
‘‘(2) improves health care quality, reduces med
ical errors, and advances the delivery of patient-cen
tered medical care;
14 ‘‘(3) reduces health care costs resulting from
15 inefficiency, medical errors, inappropriate care, du
plicative care, and incomplete information;

 

[jreeves]

Back to this thread.

It is a lie by the author. Here is a pdf of the stimulus bill.

J, you can look it up. It's 765 pages.

It was a lie and the right bought right into it because it was a good way to attack the plan.

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/senatestimamendment.pdf

This is a massive bill, here is an example of how the NCHIT will control care.
Straight from your link...
‘‘(b) REQUIREMENT TO IMPROVE QUALITY OF CARE
AND DECREASE IN COSTS.—The National Coordinator
shall annually evaluate the activities conducted under this
title and shall, in awarding grants, implement the lessons
learned from such evaluation in a manner so that awards made subsequent to each such evaluation are made in a
manner that, in the determination of the National Coordi
nator, will result in the greatest improvement in the qual
ity and efficiency of health care.

More from your link...

‘‘(b) PURPOSE.—The National Coordinator shall per
form the duties under subsection (c) in a manner con
sistent with the development of a nationwide health infor
mation technology infrastructure that allows for the elec
tronic use and exchange of information and that—
‘‘(1) ensures that each patient’s health informa
tion is secure and protected, in accordance with ap
plicable law;
‘‘(2) improves health care quality, reduces med
ical errors, and advances the delivery of patient-cen
tered medical care;
14 ‘‘(3) reduces health care costs resulting from
15 inefficiency, medical errors, inappropriate care, du
plicative care, and incomplete information;

Try reading the bill next time....
I repeat read the bill next time....

 

[Care4all]

DITTO-- I am small business also. We have been electrical contractors for over 30 years. One of my friends said--well--people making over 250 K per year should pay more taxes.

I said--well, if you think I am going to be put under that kind of additional stress, missing vacations, working 24/7, hiring more employees, more payroll taxes, dealing with inspectors & customers, buying new work trucks, tools for employees, so I can vault myself into a 39% tax bracket, you're out of your mind. My friend was in a total state of shock. I think he finally saw the other side of the tax coin--relating to taxes to people who make over 250K. In fact, in that tax bracket, they will do everything they can to stay out of it. Meaning no new growth in small business.

I imagine millions of other small business people are thinking the same way I do.

Amen. We have purposely reduced business to remain in our current tax bracket - that is how the tax code actually contracts the economy. We penciled it out, and between my wife and I, if we had a 10% reduction in our tax rates we would be willing to hire 2 additional full time and one part time positions.

Might seem like a small impact, but you multiply that many thousands of times over all across the country, and you see hundreds of thousands of new jobs being created.

I have an associate who runs a large machine shop with contracts spread througout six states. He recently laid off 7 employees. That's 7 families now without a primary earner. 7 families scrambling for health insurance. 7 families facing a very uncertain economic future. If his tax burden was not so great, this number would have been greatly reduced. He still would have had to make cuts due to the economy, but not nearly so many. He told me when you add up all the taxes and fees his business has to pay, he is nearing paying out 50% of every dollar his business earns to the government.

50% of every dollar earned.

When Obama pushes through his increases in the tax code, that number will be pushed over 50%.

Ladies and gentleman, that reality hurts our economy - it limits job growth, hurts families, hurts every damn one of us.

That appears to be the Obama way...[/QUOTE]



I cannot understand why he dosen't understand.. it is most

but don't you pay the exact amount in taxes up to the 250k and ONLY the money over the 250k in taxable income is taxed at this 39% you are speaking about? your lower taxes up to the 250k do not all of a sudden go up to a higher rate if you cross over that amount? only the taxable income over the 250k would be at the 39%??? so what is the gripe?

why would that stop you from growing your business? why doesn't it stop the millionaires from growing their businesses?

do either of you do your own taxes?