Public Unions.. Public Enemy # 1 ?

[Lumpy 1]

But public employees are different lumpy1. We can "outsouce" our students and criminals. But you may be on to something...lol

It seems I offended you by the title of my original post, I apologize...

If what your new Governor was saying is true, then the system is truly unsustainable and sooner or later will crumble. If it is an indication for the rest of the country, it's no wonder we're in the mess we're in.

I'm far from an expert on this subject but I find if I write a post with some bite, I get firm opinions from all sides of the issue, learn some things and find sources for further review.

I think I've been pretty clear on the respect and admiration I have for you. I'd continue but it would get gushy...

 

[Darkwind]

NJ's pension problems are the result of years of "stealing from the cookie jar"

not sure about that, because same thing's happening here in Virginia, teachers get 80% of their salary and can retire at 55, and their base pay has gone up faster than inflation

taxpayers are being completely scammed

"Today's decision-makers and taxpayers are left with the legacy of that approach: high annual costs that come with significant unfunded liabilities, lower bond ratings, less money available for services, higher taxes and the specter of worsening problems in the future," the study said.

Pew held out the difference between New Jersey and New York - which has a well-funded pension, despite its current budget problems - as an example of "how poor management affects the bottom line," said Kil Huh, director of research for the Pew Center.

In 2000, both states' systems were fully funded. In the years after that, New York continued to make its full annual contributions while New Jersey did not, Huh said.

So by 2008, New Jersey's fund had fallen so far behind that its annual required contribution was $1 billion more than New York's - even though New York's long-term obligations were $15 billion more.

Study: Jersey pension system in dire straits - NJ.com

80% of their salary eh? Maybe I should move there.

Public employees are an easy target right now that people are losing their jobs. Ten years ago, no one cared.

I left a $35K a year private sector job in N. Jersey to work for county govt. at $12K in 1986. Family and friends thought I was nuts, but starting a family and having good benefits was my priority at the time. We all make choices. And to say that most public employees make more than the private sector equivalent is untrue.

Unions are necessary because if the public was to decide what to pay their cops and teachers, it would probably be slightly more than minimum wage. Once pay and benefits are slashed, only the slackers will apply. Be careful what you wish for.

I believe Christie is approaching this issue the sensible way. But he is not labeling the unions "public enemy #1". That kind of talk causes derision and anger. Not exactly the best way to solve a problem.

I have to question this line in the article:

n 2000, both states' systems were fully funded. In the years after that, New York continued to make its full annual contributions while New Jersey did not, Huh said. So by 2008, New Jersey's fund had fallen so far behind that its annual required contribution was $1 billion more than New York's - even though New York's long-term obligations were $15 billion more.

What is being left out of that article is the fact that New York unions have a sweet little law, that's right, it is a law, that the state must raid other state coffers to ensure that the pension funds stay solvent. In addition to that, by law, New York is required to raise taxes on the citizens in order to be sure that there are no losses.

New York has privatized gain (Huge pensions for little payment by the worker) and publicized any losses. In other words, when the pension funds took a hit during that last downturn, no state employee lost a thing. They didn't even have to increase the amount of deduction from their checks to try and help offset it.

The difference is wholly made up by the tax payer.

And people don't understand why our governments are going under?

 

[The T]

NJ's pension problems are the result of years of "stealing from the cookie jar" by politicians who have used it as a slush fund. Public employees sacrificed wages in favor of better benefits. Now that they are running out of money, its easy to blame the people who have bargained for that security. Teachers receive x/ 60 years in pension pay. Retiring after 30 years at 50K is 25K before taxes. But it sounds so much sleazier at 3.3 million dollars.

Examine this statement for a minute...and yes, the emboldened part?

Sound vaguely familiar to something of larger scope? -Ponder-

~T

 

[The T]

not sure about that, because same thing's happening here in Virginia, teachers get 80% of their salary and can retire at 55, and their base pay has gone up faster than inflation

taxpayers are being completely scammed

Study: Jersey pension system in dire straits - NJ.com

80% of their salary eh? Maybe I should move there.

Public employees are an easy target right now that people are losing their jobs. Ten years ago, no one cared.

I left a $35K a year private sector job in N. Jersey to work for county govt. at $12K in 1986. Family and friends thought I was nuts, but starting a family and having good benefits was my priority at the time. We all make choices. And to say that most public employees make more than the private sector equivalent is untrue.

Unions are necessary because if the public was to decide what to pay their cops and teachers, it would probably be slightly more than minimum wage. Once pay and benefits are slashed, only the slackers will apply. Be careful what you wish for.

I believe Christie is approaching this issue the sensible way. But he is not labeling the unions "public enemy #1". That kind of talk causes derision and anger. Not exactly the best way to solve a problem.

I have to question this line in the article:

n 2000, both states' systems were fully funded. In the years after that, New York continued to make its full annual contributions while New Jersey did not, Huh said. So by 2008, New Jersey's fund had fallen so far behind that its annual required contribution was $1 billion more than New York's - even though New York's long-term obligations were $15 billion more.

What is being left out of that article is the fact that New York unions have a sweet little law, that's right, it is a law, that should the state must raid other state coffers to ensure that the pension funds stay solvent. In addition to that, by law, New York is required to raise taxes on the citizens in order to be sure that there are no losses.

New York has privatized gain (Huge pensions for little payment by the worker) and publicized any losses. In other words, when the pension funds took a hit during that last downturn, no state employee lost a thing. They didn't even have to increase the amount of deduction from their checks to try and help offset it.

The difference is wholly made up by the tax payer.

And people don't understand why our governments are going under?

Yep. And taxpayers take it in the shorts again. Madness.

 

[Darkwind]

NJ's pension problems are the result of years of "stealing from the cookie jar" by politicians who have used it as a slush fund. Public employees sacrificed wages in favor of better benefits. Now that they are running out of money, its easy to blame the people who have bargained for that security. Teachers receive x/ 60 years in pension pay. Retiring after 30 years at 50K is 25K before taxes. But it sounds so much sleazier at 3.3 million dollars.

Examine this statement for a minute...and yes, the emboldened part?

Sound vaguely familiar to something of larger scope? -Ponder-

~T

Why, that couldn't possibly happen to Social Security......Nope....You are counting the wrong fingers.

 

[Darkwind]

Study: Jersey pension system in dire straits - NJ.com

80% of their salary eh? Maybe I should move there.

Public employees are an easy target right now that people are losing their jobs. Ten years ago, no one cared.

I left a $35K a year private sector job in N. Jersey to work for county govt. at $12K in 1986. Family and friends thought I was nuts, but starting a family and having good benefits was my priority at the time. We all make choices. And to say that most public employees make more than the private sector equivalent is untrue.

Unions are necessary because if the public was to decide what to pay their cops and teachers, it would probably be slightly more than minimum wage. Once pay and benefits are slashed, only the slackers will apply. Be careful what you wish for.

I believe Christie is approaching this issue the sensible way. But he is not labeling the unions "public enemy #1". That kind of talk causes derision and anger. Not exactly the best way to solve a problem.

I have to question this line in the article:

n 2000, both states' systems were fully funded. In the years after that, New York continued to make its full annual contributions while New Jersey did not, Huh said. So by 2008, New Jersey's fund had fallen so far behind that its annual required contribution was $1 billion more than New York's - even though New York's long-term obligations were $15 billion more.

What is being left out of that article is the fact that New York unions have a sweet little law, that's right, it is a law, that should the state must raid other state coffers to ensure that the pension funds stay solvent. In addition to that, by law, New York is required to raise taxes on the citizens in order to be sure that there are no losses.

New York has privatized gain (Huge pensions for little payment by the worker) and publicized any losses. In other words, when the pension funds took a hit during that last downturn, no state employee lost a thing. They didn't even have to increase the amount of deduction from their checks to try and help offset it.

The difference is wholly made up by the tax payer.

And people don't understand why our governments are going under?

Yep. And taxpayers take it in the shorts again. Madness.

And while Americans were suffering and the fucking moron liberals were screaming that we all had to share in the pain, they did so out of both sides of their faces.

America suffered in that downturn, but the unions got theirs and fuck everyone else...

This shit still boils My blood.

 

[The T]

NJ's pension problems are the result of years of "stealing from the cookie jar" by politicians who have used it as a slush fund. Public employees sacrificed wages in favor of better benefits. Now that they are running out of money, its easy to blame the people who have bargained for that security. Teachers receive x/ 60 years in pension pay. Retiring after 30 years at 50K is 25K before taxes. But it sounds so much sleazier at 3.3 million dollars.

Examine this statement for a minute...and yes, the emboldened part?

Sound vaguely familiar to something of larger scope? -Ponder-

~T

Why, that couldn't possibly happen to Social Security......Nope....You are counting the wrong fingers.

And -IT- is insolvent.

 

[Rambunctious]

During Republican Governor Chris Christie's inauguration speech in New Jersey, he dropped some interesting news in regards to Public Unions. The question I'm considering is whether or not the American people can afford such liberal benefits to State and Federal employees, as I'm guessing these kind of benefit packages are country wide?

Also.. now with Obama and the Democratic Party so bent on ballooning government control over the people and expanding the size of government, you have to wonder, how can the people pay for it?....

---------------------
One state retiree, 49 years old, paid, over the course of his entire career, a total of $124,000 towards his retirement pension and health benefits. What will we pay him? $3.3 million in pension payments over his life and nearly $500,000 for health care benefits -- a total of $3.8m on a $120,000 investment. Is that fair?
A retired teacher paid $62,000 towards her pension and nothing, yes nothing, for full family medical, dental and vision coverage over her entire career. What will we pay her? $1.4 million in pension benefits and another $215,000 in health care benefit premiums over her lifetime. Is it “fair” for all of us and our children to have to pay for this excess?

Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis: Governor Christie Declares "New Jersey on Edge of Bankruptcy"

Man you are so right on with this post. I agree 100%, the unions are crushing our nation.

 

[nc oliver]

I am not a supporter of unions at all---especially in the public sector. I think teachers' unions are one of the worst things to happen to our education system. But, some descriptions of public employ benefits are a bit misleading.

I worked for a state agency, in a non-union state, and retired early. My retirement is not bad, but not all that generous either. In my system, the employee contributes 6% of their pay with the state obligated to match it. It all goes into an investment fund. After 30 years, retirement pay is about 52% of the average of the highest four years of earnings.

If you look at total contributions it may not seem like much, but if you consider the growth of 6% yearly over 30 years it is a lot more. (6% of 50K x30 years is only 90K, but if invested for 30 years--?) "total contributions" can be misleading. Also, while some public employees are overpaid, some are paid a lot less than they would be for similar responsibility in the private sector. We need to be careful to not generalize too much.

It's true that public union retirement plans are scandalous in some places, but not all public employees are ripping off the taxpayers.

 

[Ragnar]

I actually support unions in the private sector when they act in good faith but public unions are almost corrupt by design. The examples shown so far in NJ, NY and California is just plain gun to the head theft. And just as a sidenote, I'd add GM union workers to the list of "public unions" as well. It's corporate welfare and it's Statist welfare too corrupting and crippling the economy.

 

[chanel]

I don't believe these folks are covered by the unions; but they are in the pension.

As Governor Chris Christie seeks ways to cut spending, an audit by the state Inspector General's Office reveals that New Jersey's numerous independent authorities and commissions offered more benefits for its employees in 2009 than other state government agencies.

The report, which focused on more than 40 independent state authorities and commissions -- including the New Jersey Turnpike Authority and the Pinelands Commission -- indicates that there are 748 employees who are paid in excess of $100,000 per-year. In addition, there are eight executive officers who make more than the Governor's salary of $175,000. Inspector General Mary Jane Cooper says, "Because these entities were being run by boards outside the normal course of state government, the boards could be more generous with their employees if they chose to do so."

She notes that the number of employees at state authorities has been reduced by over 2,000 over the past three years. Collectively, the independent authorities and commissions employ over 20,000 workers.

http://www.nj1015.com/Report--Independent-NJ-Authorities-Offer-Workers-M/6398453

Yep. Let's pick on those overpaid teachers...

 

[rdean]

Public Unions - is that like Police Officers and Firemen?

 

[Lumpy 1]

Public Unions - is that like Police Officers and Firemen?

That would be yes...

 

[Titanic Sailor]

The power of the union comes from their ability to strike. Government union members are banned from striking, it's illegal. Glad someone else seeing the government unions for what they are, another cash wing of the Democrat Party. I agree, government unions should be completely illegal.

 

[sealybobo]

During Republican Governor Chris Christie's inauguration speech in New Jersey, he dropped some interesting news in regards to Public Unions. The question I'm considering is whether or not the American people can afford such liberal benefits to State and Federal employees, as I'm guessing these kind of benefit packages are country wide?

Also.. now with Obama and the Democratic Party so bent on ballooning government control over the people and expanding the size of government, you have to wonder, how can the people pay for it?....

---------------------
One state retiree, 49 years old, paid, over the course of his entire career, a total of $124,000 towards his retirement pension and health benefits. What will we pay him? $3.3 million in pension payments over his life and nearly $500,000 for health care benefits -- a total of $3.8m on a $120,000 investment. Is that fair?

A retired teacher paid $62,000 towards her pension and nothing, yes nothing, for full family medical, dental and vision coverage over her entire career. What will we pay her? $1.4 million in pension benefits and another $215,000 in health care benefit premiums over her lifetime. Is it “fair” for all of us and our children to have to pay for this excess?

Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis: Governor Christie Declares "New Jersey on Edge of Bankruptcy"

Sayit disagrees.