Putin's Speech to Russia this evening

[dilloduck]

That would depend on lots of factors which I don't have info on, such as what group specifically was responsible, where they are based, who provides support for them, etc...

I'd try to figure out who was responsible and kill them of course. But I wouldn't send in the army, blockade people in a town, and then bomb and shell them indiscriminately, as the Russians have done in the past. I wouldn't send the army in with orders to take civilians out of their homes and shoot them in the streets as has been done in the past.

What would you do?

Wade.

that was a big list of things you would not do---it sounds like Kerry. How can you criticize the Russians when you have no idea what action SHOULD be taken. If you think something different should be done,then by God let's hear it! The seven minutes of "silence" pales when compared with how long it has taken anyone else to come up with a better plan!

 

[ScreamingEagle]

MOSCOW, Russia (CNN) -- Russian President Vladimir Putin has said that mid-level officials in the U.S. government were undermining his country's war on terrorism by supporting Chechen separatists, whom he compared to al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.

Putin's charge, made in a meeting with a group of western foreign policy experts, came just days after hundreds of people, mostly children, died in the bloody end to the Beslan siege.

Putin also defended his government's decision to storm the school and said the hostage holders had begun shooting children out of boredom.

His comments did not suggest the final raid was triggered by the shooting of children.

In the wide-ranging meeting which lasted almost four hours, Putin said he likes President Bush, calling him a friendly, decent, predictable person

(sorry for the piss poor posting--edited )

I heard the State department deny that anybody has been dealing with any terrorist Chechens. Why on earth is Putin attempting to accuse the U.S.? Is he trying to put the blame on us to take the heat off him? Not a very smart idea - as Nato Air said, he needs to become good buddies with the U.S. at this point.

It must be a tough pill to swallow for Russia, France, et al and admit that America is doing the right thing with our War on Terrorism and that Bush probably isn't the "neo-nazi" they imagined. :usa:

 

[deaddude]

Imagine that. Two libs agreeing.

So you’re telling me you disagree? You disagree that lining up families including children and shooting them is wrong? You disagree that preventing children from evacuating a city that is going to be bombed is wrong? It was all right because it was the Russians killing Czechs? That sounds morally relativistic to me RWA. What happened to your moral absolutes?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

So you’re telling me you disagree? You disagree that lining up families including children and shooting them is wrong? You disagree that preventing children from evacuating a city that is going to be bombed is wrong? It was all right because it was the Russians killing Czechs? That sounds morally relativistic to me RWA. What happened to your moral absolutes?

Nothing justifies what they did. Sorry. It's so funny you think you GOT me. That'll never happen.

 

[Merlin1047]

Absolutely Nato.

This is my problem with the media induced response to the Chechin attack on the Russion school. While we should have sympathy for the loss of innocent life in Russia, we should do everything we can not to fan the fires of hatred. We need to realize both sides are guilty of atrocities and do everything we can to encourage Russia not to respond with another round of terror.

The cycle needs to end.

Wade.

One more question Wade. It seems to me that you leftists and peaceniks always preach that the "cycle needs to end" right after the USA has been attacked. Why is that?

During Clinton's administration, the USA was attacked repeatedly and absolutely no effective retaliatory measures were taken. Is this your idea of ending the cycle? Or perhaps the cycle will end when muslim terrorists slit the throat of the last non-muslim on the planet. Oh, but it won't end there either. Having no other victims to murder, the moslems will no doubt turn on each other.

So this time, let's wait until the Russian kill a few thousand muslim terrorists and THEN you and I can chant in unison "The cycle needs to end". (pass the granola, please) But for the time being, the only way I can see to end the cycle is to kill them before they get us in their crosshairs again.

P.S. Should you ever have the misfortune to be confronted by a muslim terrorist, please be sure to share your philosophy with him. I'm sure he'll be impressed.

 

[freeandfun1]

I'm sure he'll be impressed.

I would just add, "as he cuts off your head".

 

[dilloduck]

I heard the State department deny that anybody has been dealing with any terrorist Chechens. Why on earth is Putin attempting to accuse the U.S.? Is he trying to put the blame on us to take the heat off him? Not a very smart idea - as Nato Air said, he needs to become good buddies with the U.S. at this point.

It must be a tough pill to swallow for Russia, France, et al and admit that America is doing the right thing with our War on Terrorism and that Bush probably isn't the "neo-nazi" they imagined. :usa:

no idea why he brought this up---Powell claims it happened 3 YEARS AGO!

 

[NATO AIR]

:bat:

i'm a leftist/peacenik?

just for suggesting that the russians be careful not to cause a civil war/ethnic warfare in that region of Russia and be sure to get the guys responsible, not innocent chechens (as they HAVE EVERY SINGLE TIME before, the terrorists rarely get punished, its always the chechen people) i'm just saying the russians need to be Intelligent and accurate (not just ruthless and fierce, which we all agree they are)


there are several parts of russia that are close to collapsing into ethnic warfare at all times (the region where the school slaughter happened is one of them)... if you're putin, you want to hold russia together, not tear it apart. hence his very wise call for russians to unite and take terrorism very seriously. he told them they were at war, in war you don't care about ethnic groups (there are no races/religions in fox holes, only warriors and victims), and i am happy putin (who is probably the most intelligent leader in the world, as well as the toughest (when he wants to be) ) is handling it this way. russia will unite, it will finally wage war against the extremists and the terrorists, and russia will be a better nation for it.

i want russia to move away from china and allign with the US, which putin is hopefully working on now.

now on the state dept. accustations, it is highly possible that after 9/11, we sent agents/diplomats/envoys to Chechnya to talk to some of these warlords who oppose the Russians to negoatiate with them on providing us with intel on the Iranians, Pakistanis and others who use rogue sectors of Chechnya for training, staging and launching attacks into other parts of the world. it is also known that there are chechens who have become leading members of Al-Queda and other terrorist organizations. Perhaps this is what Putin is referring, though I have no idea what his goal is in saying this.

 

[Merlin1047]

:bat:

i'm a leftist/peacenik?

Ahem - msg not addressed to you, Bubba.

That is, unless you're also posting under the name of "Wade" and talking to yourself.

 

[deaddude]

Nothing justifies what they did.

Nor did I ever say that anything did RWA, in fact you might notice that thing I said about putting mammba venom in their eyes.

What I said and what I believe what wade is saying is that nothing Jusitfies what the Russians did to the Chechens either.

 

[wade]

Nor did I ever say that anything did RWA, in fact you might notice that thing I said about putting mammba venom in their eyes.

What I said and what I believe what wade is saying is that nothing Jusitfies what the Russians did to the Chechens either.

Exactly Dude. And if we acknowlege the wrongs of one side but ignore those of the other, we are wrong too.

Wade.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Nor did I ever say that anything did RWA, in fact you might notice that thing I said about putting mammba venom in their eyes.

What I said and what I believe what wade is saying is that nothing Jusitfies what the Russians did to the Chechens either.

That was not really the thrust of wade's message. But thanks for trying. He mouths the proper platitude when questioned bluntly, but otherwise he consistently agitates on the side of whoever is against america.

 

[deaddude]

be that as it may, I am still wondering how you could disagree about the killing of Chechen children while still holding your moral absolutes.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

be that as it may, I am still wondering how you could disagree about the killing of Chechen children while still holding your moral absolutes.

I never agreed with it. Alas, I was not consulted in the matter.

 

[NATO AIR]

my apologies merlin

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Exactly Dude. And if we acknowlege the wrongs of one side but ignore those of the other, we are wrong too.

Wade.

But when we tally it up we are ahead in the moral superiority game. You already agreed to this. Only you advocate monkish self flagellation. Scourge yourself in private, we're not into it.

 

[8236]

Putin. Hah! Like as though he could care less about the poor kids of Beslan. If he did care about anything other than his own power base he would have allowed Chechnia to secede (which he could easily do, since he is de facto the new Russian Tsar).
As ethnicly/religiously seperate people, that have far less in common with the Russians than e.g. the Ukrainians (who are independent), why shouldn't they go their own way? It's called self-determination, one of Wilson's 14 points that brought WW1 to an end.
The REAL truth we all know is:
1: Oil and gas pipelines run from Azerbaijan/the Caspian via Chechnia to Russia.
2: If Chechnia goes, many other non-Russian republics in the federation - that the Moscow oligarcy is currently plundering for its minerals - will want to go aswell.

No, I'm sure Putin would sacrifice many many more people for the greater glory of the himself and the other top brass. After all, that would only be the continuation of a great Russian tradition streching back to Tsarist days.

 

[Shazbot]

Holy crap, 8236... How the hell did you accumulate -506 reputation points with only 100 posts?!?! Maybe you ought to just stop posting altogether...

-Douglas

 

[drac]

<i>Beslan Siege Was Work of al Qaeda Cell from Kabardino-Balkaria
September 13, 2004, 3:30 PM (GMT+02:00)
As the continent of Europe resolves to hold one minute’s silence on Tuesday, September 14, in support of the bereaved people of Beslan, anger is mounting in the stricken town. It is directed against two sources, the Kremlin and neighboring Ingoshetia. Why is the government in Moscow lying? they ask, certain that the correct number of school siege deaths is closer to 600 than the 335 officially admitted. And in fact around 200 of the more than 1,200 hostages are missing and 90 bodies removed from the ravaged school lie unclaimed in the Vladikavkaz morgue
</i>

http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=903