Quotes from the American Taliban

[Bfgrn]

What's truly ironic about this whole war is that the conservatives in our country do not seem to realize that the Taliban is simply an extreme version of the same primal impulse that drives them.

In every population there is a distribution of conservative to progressive, aggressive to peaceful, etc. The famous classical game theoretic model, the Hawk-Dove contest, shows that the evolutionarily stable population in that model is not all hawks or all doves, but rather a certain degree of each; in that model, 58% "doves" and 42% "hawks". It stands to reason that it is expected that you will have both types of personality in your population. Similarly, I believe a stable distribution of political sensibility is probably one with both progressive and conservative elements.

Of course, it's funny how the same personality type seems to latch on to radically different ideas depending on the society. "Conservatives" here profess a belief in capitalism and extol the virtues of the good old days of the 1950's, a half century ago; "conservatives" in Russia pine for the bygone days of the stability of the old Soviet empire. I believe that the propensity in conservatives is not towards ideologies per se, but rather towards status quo versus change. I'd bet you'd find much more psychologically (and perhaps genetically?) similar between conservatives here and in Russia, despite the fact that they profess supposedly opposite nostalgias.

But of course a typical conservative doesn't look at the conservatism of their enemy and learn to moderate themselves; they see the enemy as an "other", as confirmation of their own rigid views, despite the evident similarity between the two stances.
M. Hadeishi
October 16, 2001

 

[YWN666]

My point? That you're being a hypocrite. If you're going to condemn these people the others should surely be in line in front of them.

The 2 are not related so your comment is not logical. This has nothing to do with the Taliban in Afghanistan and the quotes from the "American Taliban" are not even in the same ballpark as the behavior of the Taliban in Afghanistan.
If I posted criticism of the "Trenchcoat Mafia" that terrorized students at Columbine High School, would you demand that I first condemn the organized crime "mafia"? The only similarity between the two is the word used to describe them. Your criticism is silly and unwarranted.

The 2 are related when you choose to use the terminology you used. So, just to be clear, which do you think are the greater threat? Some nut jobs in the US or the Taliban in the ME?

They're related only by the use of the word Taliban and that is where the similarities end. I never brought them into this conversation, you did for some unknown reason. The greater threat is the Taliban in the ME but that was never the issue.

 

[YWN666]

These quotes are hilarious! I love the quotes from Fred Phelps (Westboro Baptist Church):

"If you got to castrate your miserable self with a piece of rusty barb wire, do it."

"Hear the word of the LORD, America, fag-enablers are worse than the fags themselves, and will be punished in the everlasting lake of fire!"

"You telling these miserable, Hell-bound, bath house-wallowing, anal-copulating fags that God loves them!? You have bats in the belfry!"

"American Veterans are to blame for the fag takeover of this nation. They have the power in their political lobby to influence the zeitgeist, get the fags out of the military, and back in the closet where they belong!"

"Not only is homosexuality a sin, but anyone who supports fags is just as guilty as they are. You are both worthy of death."

I'd find them funnier if I didnt know they were being totally serious.

 

[YWN666]

I wish I had a magic wand and could make everyone happy, but I don't, so for now I have to prioritize... do you think these nuts are worse than those in the ME?

Well, it depends on the context. When it comes to violating human rights? Yeah, the Taliban are WAY worse. But I think the fanatics quoted in the OP are potentially just as bad, they just don't have the opportunity to get away with the same acts.

When it comes to violating MY rights, I think the Christian extremists are more of a threat than the Taliban. The Taliban might bomb me and kill me, but the chances of that happening are astronomically low. The fringe-dwelling rightwing Christan fanatics in YWN666's OP are far more likely to infringe upon my rights as a US citizen who dissents with the majority and doesn't believe in God. They already supported legislation that keeps my uncle from legally marrying his life partner, and they've been together for 11 years now. They threaten to take away my girlfriend's, and my female friends' right to choose. They support legislation that prohibited my family from allowing my grandmother to die as she would've chosen to. And that's just the present.

I am descended from a group of people called Waldencians. They are a Protestant sect that was persecuted by Catholics for centuries until many finally immmigrated to the US in the late 19th Century. Then they were descriminated against by the Southern Baptists in North Carolina, where they had migrated to and suffered in the land of the free at the hands of other Protestants.

I grew up in southwest Idaho, a Mormon dominated area. I was descriminated against, taunted, misunderstood because of my inability to believe in God. In fact, during my junior year of high school I was dating a beautiful girl who was Mormon (I've dated three Mormons and been with more). When her parents found out that I wasn't Mormon, they moved her to her grandparents' house over three hours away. There was no warning. One morning before first period we kissed goodbye. I didn't see her again the rest of the day. I tried calling her when I got worried. I didn't hear from her for 4 days! Broke my little heart when I found out what happened. It broke hers too. We really liked eachother.

Anyway, the point being is that Christianity has had a great deal of influence on my life and most of it was negative. My current girlfriend's parents are Christians, they don't care if you're gay, or living in sin, or whatever. They're Unitarians. I like them. They voted for Obama cause they were afraid that Palin would try to institute laws that violated freedom of religion.

I don't hate all Christians, just the ones who threaten my peaceful, free, unmaterialistic life and the rights of my family and friends.

Are you saying you don't care if nutjobs in the ME saw peoples heads off as long as your rights at home are preserved, or did I read that wrong?

Once again, this was never about the ME Taliban. You're chastising others for not condemning unrelated behavior that you introduced into the conversation. That makes NO sense. I think you were looking for something to disagree about and when you couldn't find anything, you manufactured a reason.

 

[Kalam]

The primary difference between the Taliban over there and the Taliban here is that the Taliban in Afghanistan have been more successful in the imposition of their oppressive ideology. The quoted statements made by the Taliban in America are products of the very same barbaric, irrational, uncompromising radicalism that motivates the Taliban in Afghanistan to act in such a depraved manor. Inshallah we'll continue to marginalize the religious radical fringe over here, so we'll never have to worry about sharing Afghanistan's fate.

 

[Smartt33]

The Moral Majority is nothing NEW

"If we are going to save America and evangelize the world, we cannot accommodate secular philosophies that are diametrically opposed to Christian truth ... We need to pull out all the stops to recruit and train 25 million Americans to become informed pro-moral activists whose voices can be heard in the halls of Congress."

"I am convinced that America can be turned around if we will all get serious about the Master's business. It may be late, but it is never too late to do what is right. We need an old-fashioned, God-honoring, Christ-exalting revival to turn American back to God. America can be saved!"

Jerry Falwell
"Moral Majority Report" for September, 1984

"The national government will maintain and defend the foundations on which the power of our nation rests. It will offer strong protection to Christianity as the very basis of our collective morality."

"Today Christians stand at the head of our country. I pledge that I will never tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity... We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit.... We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theatre, and in the press - in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess during the past few years."

Adolf Hitler
The Speeches of Adolph Hitler, 1922-1939, Vol. 1 (London, Oxford University Press, 1942), pg. 871-872.

Smartt: You need to recognize that the people you are calling the Moral Majority are not a majority. Just like the loud lefts, these are the loud rights. I don't see you complaining about the radicals on the left, so, is there some prejudice there? The "real" Majority is true believers. You really cannot see them clearly now, but soon you will. They will prove to be the wonderful people that nonbelievers have always sad that Christians should be. However, they will also prove to be inmovable, and powerful. Their power is not against people, but against principalities and powers of darkness. They are not to be feared, and have no hate. However, truth is their agenda, and will be their banner. I have chosen to be one of those people. I have met several others, and recently the community of true believers are discovering eachother, and realizing that the local church is not who they are. Not that the local church is bad, but that it is not surviving.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Are you saying you don't care if nutjobs in the ME saw peoples heads off as long as your rights at home are preserved, or did I read that wrong?

What do you think, Amanda? Do you really think I don't care that the Taliban whip women who've been accused (not convicted in a fair trial) of infidelity? Or stone people to death? C'mon! I hope I exude in my posts more compassion and humanity than would make someone assume I don't care that people are being treated terribly anywhere.

 

[Barb]

My point? That you're being a hypocrite. If you're going to condemn these people the others should surely be in line in front of them.

The 2 are not related so your comment is not logical. This has nothing to do with the Taliban in Afghanistan and the quotes from the "American Taliban" are not even in the same ballpark as the behavior of the Taliban in Afghanistan.
If I posted criticism of the "Trenchcoat Mafia" that terrorized students at Columbine High School, would you demand that I first condemn the organized crime "mafia"? The only similarity between the two is the word used to describe them. Your criticism is silly and unwarranted.

The 2 are related when you choose to use the terminology you used. So, just to be clear, which do you think are the greater threat? Some nut jobs in the US or the Taliban in the ME?

How about concentrating on the greater risk? The nutjobs in the US (and they aren't nearly as marginalized as all that) are a closer and more immediate risk to our secular society than the nutjobs (and what are the odds they were just as marginalized [and for the same stealthy reasons]before they gained power?) who have no abiliity to affect US policy.

 

[xotoxi]

I grew up in southwest Idaho, a Mormon dominated area. I was descriminated against, taunted, misunderstood because of my inability to believe in God. In fact, during my junior year of high school I was dating a beautiful girl who was Mormon (I've dated three Mormons and been with more). When her parents found out that I wasn't Mormon, they moved her to her grandparents' house over three hours away. There was no warning. One morning before first period we kissed goodbye. I didn't see her again the rest of the day. I tried calling her when I got worried. I didn't hear from her for 4 days! Broke my little heart when I found out what happened. It broke hers too. We really liked eachother.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

I grew up in southwest Idaho, a Mormon dominated area. I was descriminated against, taunted, misunderstood because of my inability to believe in God. In fact, during my junior year of high school I was dating a beautiful girl who was Mormon (I've dated three Mormons and been with more). When her parents found out that I wasn't Mormon, they moved her to her grandparents' house over three hours away. There was no warning. One morning before first period we kissed goodbye. I didn't see her again the rest of the day. I tried calling her when I got worried. I didn't hear from her for 4 days! Broke my little heart when I found out what happened. It broke hers too. We really liked eachother.

I totally related to that movie. It was filmed and took place not far from where I grew up. I even got chiggers once at the Bruneau sand dunes where grandma broke her coccyx.

 

[Immanuel]

I have read and hope to read more, about half of the page linked in the OP.

I must say, that context is everything and that at least some of those quotes had to be taken out of context, but what bothers me is why would prominent people such as those listed say such ignorant things that can be taken out of context.

There is nothing that can excuse some of those comments whether they are taken out of context or not. IMHO.

Immie

 

[Amanda]

The 2 are not related so your comment is not logical. This has nothing to do with the Taliban in Afghanistan and the quotes from the "American Taliban" are not even in the same ballpark as the behavior of the Taliban in Afghanistan.
If I posted criticism of the "Trenchcoat Mafia" that terrorized students at Columbine High School, would you demand that I first condemn the organized crime "mafia"? The only similarity between the two is the word used to describe them. Your criticism is silly and unwarranted.

The 2 are related when you choose to use the terminology you used. So, just to be clear, which do you think are the greater threat? Some nut jobs in the US or the Taliban in the ME?

How about concentrating on the greater risk? The nutjobs in the US (and they aren't nearly as marginalized as all that) are a closer and more immediate risk to our secular society than the nutjobs (and what are the odds they were just as marginalized [and for the same stealthy reasons]before they gained power?) who have no abiliity to affect US policy.

Thank you for the clarification. I was just trying to understand which area was thought to be of greater concern and I think I understand now.

 

[SW2SILVERQUASI]

I am native Coloradan, we worship the sky gods and sacrifice virgins to placate the gods and the present economic demands. Yep, toss them right in. Still the economy sucks. All those great shinny illegal aliens that work soooo hard aren't making anything better. Were is GOD when you need him? In Cancun, getting a tan.

 

[Barb]

The 2 are related when you choose to use the terminology you used. So, just to be clear, which do you think are the greater threat? Some nut jobs in the US or the Taliban in the ME?

How about concentrating on the greater risk? The nutjobs in the US (and they aren't nearly as marginalized as all that) are a closer and more immediate risk to our secular society than the nutjobs (and what are the odds they were just as marginalized [and for the same stealthy reasons]before they gained power?) who have no abiliity to affect US policy.

Thank you for the clarification. I was just trying to understand which area was thought to be of greater concern and I think I understand now.

Oh, hell, you're welcome

I'm sorry for not responding. This board has so many threads, and I just figured out how to find where I've been. There was a note in here about moved threads, so I looked where it was suggested to look, and there you were!